No, this is not about taking in or not taking in DGI family members. If people are panicking they won't be able to get here, anyway.

I am thinking about my grandmother, who is on coumadin, a blood thinner. She has artificial heart valves and if she doesn't have her coumadin for maybe 2 dys at the most, she dies a painful death.

I am thinking about another grandmother, who lives in a crime-ridden neighborhood none of us have been able to talk her into moving from. She just had a stroke a month ago and has been receiving physical therapy at home. Can't do too much for herself.

One of my brothers and my mother has terrible asthma and need their inhalers pretty often. Can you die from an asthma attack?

An aunt, an uncle, and two cousins (13 and 15) live in a run-down old house (it's paid for) with no fireplace. In a VERY bad location, right on a major thoroughfare. My aunt has Crohn's disease and takes steroids to treat it.

A 22 yr old cousin is getting MARRIED New Year's Day. Family members are flying in on December 28 from as far away as Massachusetts and planning on flying back on Jan. 3. Best o' luck.

Another aunt and uncle just got to take home their newborn son from the hospital. He was born with a staph infection and a cyst in his brain. He has had breathing and feeding problems. He went into cardiac arrest when he was 3 days old and was saved. He is now 4 wks old. He is on formula. They live in an apartment and think Y2K is a joke.

A stepfather and biological mother, estranged from me by my choice, are in pretty dire straights if it is even a 3 or 4. He is a big-time alcoholic and she has Borderline Personality Disorder (untreated). Their grip on reality is questionable on a GOOD day.

A dear friend lives in Fairfax, VA. New high-powered job in DC. Fancy new Lexus. Lives in an apartment. PLans on partying the night away in DC. As far as Y2K went, was only concerned about her $$. Got reassurances from her banks that everything would be A-OK and slept tight.

Yes, I know, they ALL coulda "gotten it", but the point is, they didn't. And won't. Until it is too late. THEY are the reason I PRAY that nothing happens. I find every time I see someone now, I feel bittersweet about it. Will this be the last time I see them? I know when I leave my parent's house the day after Christmas, they are getting extra extra long hugs. And I will be trying to memorize my father's smile, my mother's beautiful voice, my brother's laugh, my sister's eyes.

That is what is on my mind now. I think, on the positive side, this is the first year Christmas has felt TRULY meaningful to me.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 22, 1999

Answers

It's heartbreaking. We've all fought so hard. It's one thing to say "It's in God's hands now", and another to actually let it STAY in God's hands. Does anyone have that much strength anymore? I admit that some days I wonder.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 22, 1999.

Sorry preparing, let them die a peaceful death. BTW, Cumedin is a rat poison, (a blood thinner). It does not matter what kind of house you live in, what kind of car you drive, or your social status in this world. If you don't have your sh*t together, it will be a matter of time for you too. Some don't like to hear the cold hard facts, but that's the way life is.

-- life at it's best and worse (lifeatit'sbest/worse@lifeissss.xcom), December 22, 1999.

Life at it's best and worST... you're not bitter are you?

ps preparing...I think we have the same family!

-- cin (cinlooo@aol.com), December 22, 1999.

Preparing: It's terribly late here, and I find it dificult to sleep. The reasons are myriad, but they echo your thoughts. I, too, have many family members who will be seriously affected if TSHTF. My heart cries out for them, and at the same time, although my wife and I have prepped for the long haul, I pray that none of this "Y2K" doomer scenario comes to pass. Quite frankly, I hope my family members can laugh at me in six months. They really don't realize the love I have for them. They can't. They are all caught up in the "worldly possesions" thing...although I'm as guilty as them. I, too, have been blessed with many very nice things...if you will. But the difference is..they all say that if TSHTF, they know where to go. We are their "ace in the hole". Yet, I know, even though we have postponed the luxuries my wife and I so desire, we will take them in in the end. I can only say that, FWIW, IMHO, that my reward will be in heaven. It is the only concept that makes this whole scenario work for me. I pray for you and yours. Thanks for you post...it has allowed me to rant on...

Shepherd

-- shepherd (shepherd@sierratel.com), December 22, 1999.

preparing,

Your post really got to me. I'm going through many of the same things, and I think tears are welling up right now. I really wish you and yours the best in getting through this thing.

-- eve (123@4567.com), December 22, 1999.

:sorry about the long post:

Walking about, going store to store.

I see people in my area shopping for loved ones, driving cars, working, making ends meet.

It is cold here in the upper midwest. the last few days have been the coldest so far this year. A month ago we had a few 50 degree days. now if i were to stand outside for 3 hours in shirtsleeves my life would be in jepordy.

Of the houses in the subdivisions that dot the landscape, possibly 1 in 10 have fireplaces or stoves. Most of those that do were built prior to the housing boom of the 1990's. there are about 10,000 people in my area.

Earlier tonight I stood in my unheated garage for 60 seconds in jeans and a t-shirt. Tried to keep myself from shivering uncontrolably. Wasn't possible.

I think about these people, my fellow human beings, and how much of a shock it may be.

Last week I was standing in line at the grocery store behind a father, his 7-9 year old son and 12-13 year old daughter. He looked to be a good man, who cared for his kids. His clothes were worn, his hands and face spoke of manual labor as a living. His daughter was beautiful, his son talkative but respecful. These are real people with the same problems and joys most people have.

I look at people and get a glimpse of their lives. I imagine the problems they might face soon and it harms my heart. The food they are buying may be the last they purchace in a grocery store. The winter coats they wear may be the only real protection they have from the elements in the event of disaster. The comfort they feel from indoor heat, eletricity, a paying job may be suddenly taken from them. Death by cold, starvation, violence and circumstances are a real possibility.

I've thought about the potential suffering of individuals and it clenches about my heart and chokes within me. I do not want this to happen, but I have little say in the matter. I can only hope for the best.

History is full of instances where things seemed normal and everyday, even prosperous for long periods of time, and suddenly they wern't. The Black Death, the countries conquered by gengis kahn, and the great depression all come to mind. We are all aware of how people overreact to stress, make things worse than they need be, and bring all sorts of emotional issues unnecessarly into situations. These people in history were like we are today in the fact that they had the same concerns: food, water, heat, wealth.

I have prepared in place, meaning I could only afford about 600$ worth. Early on, I tried to warn my parents, brother; but learnd an important lesson early on. Reason never convinced anyone. For each reason, there is a valid and contradictory one. Rather than make them resistive and confrontational on the subject, I prepped for them. Since then, we have moved from a house with a fireplace to one with hot water heat only. They know of my preperations. My brother refused to prepare but stated "since you have some, I don't need to". I call the preps insurance. They do not bug me about it.

I have 4-6 months of food in the garage for them, but I know already that this is futile. This food cannot be eaten unless cooked, and the new house cannot funtion without natural gas or eletricity. Hence, no way to cook it, lots of hungry neighbors, and a house that get dammed cold without heat. I fully expect my parents and brother to leave for someplace more comfortable (that smoking chimney down the street), and possiblly never see them again.

I have 2 years worth of food buried in 2-4 week stashes all about the area. This food is not my primary, but my fallback. to get me through the next two winters. My primary in the short term is containers of meals that are cooked, then frozen and buried in the snow near landmarks (boulders/trees) all about my area. This way, if it is dangerous to be in one place for long or to have things like fires, I have a supply of food I can defrost with body heat and eat without having to endanger myself preparing it.

If things get really bad, I plan to stay in my closet, in a nest of clothing, matresses and blankets piled thick. I will move only at night to procure water from nearby rivers and lakes. I do not know how I will avoid leaving footprints wherever I go. All but a handful of houses around here will be uninhabiltable without natural gas or eletricity. Those few that are will be hard put to place people. I do not want to be a part of this. I know that each contact I have with people puts my life in potential danger. If people became aware of my preperations in this desperate state, My life is likely forfit.

I plan to rely on wild foods both short and long term, in addition to foods grown from seed. Also, if I am forced to leave my home, I will build a shelter and camp. I have done this before. See my post called the Last Fallback Plan under fallback planning if you are interested in this also. Others will survive a worst case scenerio. Even those that did not prepare. The bodies of the dead can feed one though the spring. Once people have adjusted to the reality of providing for themselves physically and emotionally (about 6 months) than I will relax a bit and actually seek contact.

I can only hope to make as many freinds with those I have contact with intentionally or unintentionally. I could teach them to eat what is freely avalible. I know from expierence that if people are already under stress, it is very hard for them to make good decisions. I fear a great many will die needlessly becasue they won't eat "bland" or "icky" food by grocery store standards.

If the worst happens, I plan to live in the place that is most uninhabitable to the conventional person: right where I am. I do not know what people will do. What people say they will do and what they actually do are two seperate things. All's I know is that is someone is hungry, thirsty, or cold, they will go to great lengths to releive their pains. I do not expect people to stay where there is no food, water, or heat for longer than they can stand. In the subdivisions across america where 50% of the population lives, there is no water without eletricity, no heat without natural gas, no food without petroleum.

Those I fear most are those that see solutions coming out of the barrel of a gun. I know a few people like this. Several times, in conversations about worst case scenerios (careful not to talk about y2k specificly), I've received the sentiment that they would do whatever they needed to do to live, and they had the firepower to get it. I've also received sentiments ranging from suicide to denial that such a thing could ever possibly happen. Those that have expressed a desire hypotheticly prepare for scenerios I laid out I told about what I knew about the y2k problem and it's ramifications. All have responded by preparing.

Years ago, before I ever heard of y2k, I had this dream. It is vivid to this day and evokes strong feelings within me whenever I think of it.

In this dream, I was travelling cross country, stealthly. I paused at the edge of a road, very afraid to cross because someone might see me. I was thinking about the world I lived in. People lived in shopping malls because they were eaisly defendable and hunger, disease, starvation, and violence were an everyday occurance. There was a quasi-tribalism in these communities; a rule of the strong. I somehow lived on my own, travelling the countryside. I was healthy and well fed compared to all those I was thinking about. I looked both ways several times before begining to cross the road, very careful to make sure there was not a hint of anyone there. Halfway across, I looked to my left and saw in the distance a large group of teenagers. They were very thin and wasted, and saw me. I felt fear well up in my heart as I raced into the ravine on the other side. I awoke thinking they saw me! I'll be eaten!. It was springtime in the deam.

Another dream that has had a profound effect occured only a few weeks ago, just at the onset of cold weather. At this time I had not buried my containers yet, procrastinating I think its called.

in the first part of the dream I was standing at a riverbank. It was winter and the river was rushing past. The air was cold, and the water deep. I had to cross the river to get to the other side. In my memory, I could see the river in summertime, it was low, the water warm, and there were steppingstones across to the other side. I berated myself for not making the crossing last summer. Later when I awoke, I felt the need to bury all of my preperations. I did not feel right until they were hidden underground. I still wonder what I could have done last summer to "cross over" and avoid the difficult winter crossing.

In the second part of the dream I was around all of the people I knew. Freinds, family, neighbors. People were just hanging out, dressed in sweaters and coats. No one was happy. There was uncertainty in the air of every conversation. It seems to me to have been public places like resturants or such where people were. There was no news. People talked constantly about what so and so said or heard. Rumor was the only means of communication over distance. People were despreate for news that would indicate an end to events at hand.

Then I was seeing images of the same situation flash before me, but with the impression time was passing. People became more agitated with what was happening, groups stared to form and broke up. People became more desperate in their speech and actions as things did not improve. In the final image, I was speaking with my brother and he was telling me about how he had gone and victimized others for his benifit with his freinds. Talking about it in a way that made it seem justified. I cant remember the words he said, but the images that came to mind were theft of food, rape, and murder and how they deserved it for not giving them what they wanted. I found myself appaled and scared, yet agreeing with his reasoning as he saw it. He wanted me to come with him next time, to join in the "fun". I knew I would not, and would seek a way to remove myself before I became a victim. At that I woke up.

Note, I dream all the time, and often remember my dreams. These two I related fit into the vivid and "real like reality" in their taste and content. I do not place a great deal of stock in them as they are visions of the future or something, but they have provided important clues to the possible outcome of events. Not that this will happen to me, but that this is what things might be like, or how events might unfold. Even in my most lucid forcasting based on information about y2k effects had I been able to get a sense of how it will accurately impact people around me. With the deams, I have a clue if the worst happens.

I feel bad about rambling on like this, but I feel that there are others out there like me who have all kinds of things happen to them to help them prepare for possible situations like what may happen. My life is sureal, Preparing in secret, and preparing to meet what happens. I have been trying to mentally prepare myself (since last winter) to be betrayed by people I hold dear, to be victimized against my will, to survive physical and emotional hardship, and to have almost everyone I know die, including myself. I want to prepare for the worst, and hope for the best. By seeing how people react to "regular" hardships (i.e. rocky relationships, depression, poor finances, loss of job or loved one, etc.) I get an idea of how they might react under extreme duress.

Unfortunately, there is no one I can fully trust under all circumstances, even myself. Even my fellow preppers have shown tendencies toward self intrest at others expense (read: betrayal). I have discussed this with them, and I have yet to get anyone to look at this problem objectively. Again, what people say and what they do are two different things.

To some, I am super-individualistic in my preperations, seemingly concerned only about myself. I have no real base of operstions, only sources or potential sources of things that will keep me alive. I can not and do not know how people will react, even those who have prepped. I have gotten indications through conversation, and it is not good, even coming from me.

The thought of people preying on the innocent and helpless brings out a rage in me I cannot discribe. It may drive me to murder them. I know my chances in any armed conflict are at best 50/50, but the thought of allowing the evil people to prey upon the vulerable without recourse, I would gladly risk my life to prevent that. It would be like ted bundy being left to roam free and kill girls until he decides to stop or runs out of victims. Murder: An easy decision to make, a difficult one to carry out if you don't have the advantage.

I will freely tell others about how to live with the land, but know only a few will be able to make the transition. My expierence has shown me that if people think they can get to the familiar creature comforts, they will. If they wait until they get too low on energy to make the transition, they probably won't make it (burned up too much reserves of muscle, fat and will to live).

I see that little boy or young girl cross my path, tears frozen to their face, suffering from manutrition, frostbite, and worse. If I turned from them I could not live with myself. If I did what I could for them, showed them how to live in the new conditions... then the new life might have meaning. Without such love for the helpless and clueless, I fear for what society would emerge.

If 99% of the people in my area of 3 million died or left, there still would be 3,000 people left. If they live more than 6 miles apart, they may go the rest of their lives without ever seeing another person, if they don't already know they are there.

If the worst happens.... sigh.....

I will be waiting paitently for the date change. If the eletricity stays on, then I will have hope that my preps were in vain. That will be a moment I will treasure for the rest of my life. Come depression, come recession, come hardship- I beg you. Instead of this dark age I have but tasted in this letter.

I don't know, and continually watch events unfold. Knowlage and hindsight are cousins, while knowlage and foresight are much more distantly related.

Whoa, I apologize again for the long post.

Good luck to you all. I'm sorry If I offended or hurt anyone with this post. I mean only to get these thoughts off my chest and mabey show someone that they are not alone in their thoughts and trials.

-- Lonelyroads (lonely@faraway.net), December 22, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

My DGI husband is a Type II diabetic. I believe he has approximately three months of medication because asking any doctor to prescribe more would be too humiliating. He'll be leaving here on Monday, January 3rd for a week in Miami. If that doesn't kill him, he'll be going back again a month later. Meanwhile, I will continue to endure his contempt for wasting my time and "his" money, most especially for my working this week to single-handedly build us a second rate fallout shelter using my arthritic hands. My behavior is considered to be way over the top.

He's taking this week off work so as to seem to be enjoying the holidays out of town as usual, and talks about leaving soon for Lake Tahoe via Donner Pass. He ducks making any promises to leave our son here with me and encourages my son to believe that he will be going for his usual fun vacation. Meanwhile, he's home this week, criticizing how I choose to spend my time. My occasional checking in on this board is, of course, completely ridiculous in his mind, because "everyone online is obviously a total loser." [This is the opinion of someone who has never actually been online.]

This next comment may come off sounding much more self-aggrandizing than it should. It hurts to know too much. As a lifelong student of human psychology I've paid special attention to the effects on personality for people who for one reason or another are prevented from saying what they know to be true. From the looks of things, it seems as though the need to keep strong feelings bottled inside will not be ending any time soon.

Other than the TBY2K forum members that I met several months ago at a picnic (they live a good hour or more away by car), I don't know even one single soul who has done any preparing. I'm thinking I would do quite well in the classic Ashe experiments. For those who never took Psych 101, subjects are asked to make judgements after others have indicated a wrong judgement. Almost everyone will conform to the wrong opinion for no other reason than to not be different from others.

Thank you for being here.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 22, 1999.

Dancr,

I'm sorry to hear about your husband. And I hope you are as aggressive as possible in getting your son to stay with you.

By the way, I just read a bit of your background and I'm very impressed. Stick with us; we need folks like you here.

-- eve (123@4567.com), December 22, 1999.

Dancr,

FWIW, this doc is a GI and will perscribe volume for $40 office eval.

http:/www.michaelhyatt.com/cgibin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi? search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=363&exact_match=on&photo_size=fu ll

Also, if you are in Texas my colleague's brother in law is a GI physician there. He has an antique old wash tub and everything. I'm off work today, but could get a contact name/number for him in Texas tomorrow if he hasn't headed out to the cabin yet.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 22, 1999.

Wow, Lonelyroads, Eve, dancr, all the others....thank you for your incredible responses. I have often thought we should start a thread just for the myriad emotional responses preppers go through day to day. Last night, when I wrote this, I was in tears over my family members, many of whom it won't take much for them to die.

This morning, it is a beautiful day, cold but not a cloud in the sky and the sun is shining bright. My daughter and I are making cookies and will take in a dollar movie around lunchtime with all the movie fare: buttered popcorn, goobers. May be the last time. Then this afternoon my best friend is coming through on her way to her parent's house in far northeast Texas. We will share several hours together and I will try not to get teary as she leaves. She lives in Austin in a 65 year old house in an old part of town with zero preps. She has joked about stocking up on Ramen but hasn't even done that. (sigh)

But for today, I am going to try to smile and just enjoy the day as the gift that it is. Excuse me, I am being called to a 5 year old's magic show......

God bless to everyone here. May the beginning of the year bring....nothing!

Dancr: I had no idea...your preps were so impressive, I guess I just assumed your husband was part of it, too. I hope and pray he leaves your son with you when he goes......take care.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 22, 1999.

Lonelyroads,

I found your post moving and invaluable. I created an e-mail account incase you have any other insights that you feel compelled to share. Especially if this forum has any extended down time and if you or others here are therefore constructing mailing lists for communication, then I have entered a functional address, although the vital account infor has been altered for reasons you guys understand and no doubt support.

-- Hokie (psalm_3_1_8@hotmail.com), December 22, 1999.

I have to share something that is very disturbing to me.

My husband and I GI and have prepped. My sister is GI and has prepped very little and plans on coming to my home with her 3 small children.

Her husband, who would seem to be intelligent, just WGI and gives my sister a hard time when she tries to prepare.

My husband has gone to great lengths to make sure we will be warm no matter what happens. My sister has begged her husband to go out and get firewood.

A couple weeks ago as she was taking inventory, her and her husband began to communicate about her preps. She thought maybe he was coming around. She asked him when he planned on getting the firewood.

HIS RESPONSE: "Don't worry. If I don't get it in time, I have a gun. I can take it by force if I have too."

This response came from a family member.. I'm ashamed to say. Really hit me hard. If someone my own sister is married to has this mentality.... !!!!

-- Enraged (brotherinlawiss@sshole.com), December 22, 1999.

Lonelyroads,

Thanks for sharing your dreams and feelings. And don't worry about the length of your post; as far as I'm concerned it could have been longer. It's always good to see that some others' thoughts and feelings are not far from my own. It makes it less lonely out here.

-- eve (123@4567.com), December 22, 1999.

preparing,

Sometimes I kneel down and watch my boys sleep, and I just break down. I still find it hard to believe that their future (as I used to think of it, anyway) will probably be ripped away; but then I gather myself together and vow that I will do everything in my power to build some sort of future for them. I have to be their rock.

The boys are 13 and 16, so they can certainly help with things; I just hope we don't get overwhelmed with what's coming.

Thanks for sharing,

-- eve (123@4567.com), December 22, 1999.