It's mpeg, it's whitebook, but it still won't burn and it crashes EZ cdgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Video CD : One Thread
Hi, I've been trying to burn a cd for the longest time and I'm at the end of my tether. I am using the ATI All in Wonder 128 and as a test, i recorded a simpsons episode in mpeg 1 format. I used correct frame size, bit rate etc. etc. Then I parsed it through Cinaz Ifilmedit to make it VCD compatible. So after doing all this, i figured EZ cd would finally let me burn the sucker (i've never got past the part in the wizard where it says "add files"). So i added the simpsons file, and it crashed the program. Again and again and again. i get that "close or ignore box". If i ignore, i can continue, but when i insert the video, the computer kinda stalls and locks up. I don't have too slow of a system (pII 400 64meg ram). This all happened in EZ cd 3.5c, I tried installing v.4, same thing now I'm back to version 3.5c. Can anyone help? I've also tried using Nero, that gave me a VCD that crashed media player and VCD player, and that played all stuttery and distorted in my dvd player. Win on Cd didn't work either (some problem that wasn't related to the mpeg file. not sure what. I'm starting to give up here. Can anyone plz help me. Thanx
-- Joannes Chan (email@example.com), December 19, 1999
Sorry, one more thing i forgot to mention. when i do click "ignore" and continue in Easy vcd and i'm in teh "add new play item box", if i click on the "video" tab and look at the properties of my file, there are some strange stats. the frame rate, movie size and play time seem normal, but the others don't. for video format, i get a "????" and for frame size i get a "0x0". Could this be what is crashing my program? Did i do something wrong in Ifilmedit? when i check the properties of the file in Ifilmedit, it says that it is VCD ready.
This is getting to be really confusing and annoying.
I appreciate any help anyone can give me
-- Joannes Chan (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 19, 1999.
I think your ECD is not properly configured to work with Media Player. Check the mci extension section in win.ini file and mci section in system.ini file.
-- Daniel Lee (email@example.com), December 19, 1999.
it could be your mpeg driver. EZCD 3.5 crashed on me because it didn't like the mpeg driver that my dvd decoder card installed. it actually sometimes prompted me to install an mpeg driver even though media player 6.4 is installed. try installing the ATI mpeg driver. if you don't have that one, there is also a shareware program called VMPEG that has a compatible driver. hope this works!
-- ndumu (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 19, 1999.
it could be your mpeg driver. EZCD 3.5 crashed on me because it didn't like the mpeg driver that my dvd decoder card installed. it actually sometimes prompted me to install an mpeg driver even though media player 6.4 is installed. try installing the ATI mpeg driver. if you don't have that one, there is also a shareware program called VMPEG that has a compatible driver. hope this works! NEW EMAIL!
-- ndumu (email@example.com), December 19, 1999.
Except for kvetchy Easy CD I've never used any of your other apps and vidcap card, although I also have PII 400/64mb. Still, I'm wondering: from what you say, I conclude ATI All in Wonder 128 captures straight to MPEG-1. This would make it like Dazzle on one end and MPEGator on the other: both capture straight to MPEG-1. Does it really do this?? And if it does, why are there no provisions for capturing straight to a White Book-restricted stream, like the two I mentioned? Such a file would be accepted by Easy CD with little problems. I'm puzzled as to why you have to parse your captured file through iFilmEdit, also if it was already MPEG-1, with an extension *.mpg. Doesn't All in Wonder capture to a proprietary VCR2 .avi format?? Well mebbe it has advanced. Normally you capture to an *.avi file with a codec of your choice. I use the MJPEG codec that came with Marvel G200. Others normally use VCR2 with ATI. The captured .avi gets encoded to .mpg with a s/w encoder like Xing or Panasonic. The resulting .mpg gets accepted by Easy CD, if there is also an apprporiate MPEG driver in your system already there and registered as default MCI MPEG driver before you installed Easy CD. Versions 3.0x and 3.1x accepted the drivers installed with Media Player, Xing, etc. without problems. The recent version 4 likes only that which came with ActiveMovie or IE4. Before you even get as far as the driver problems, however I believe you do not even have a legit .mpg file to begin with, let alone White Book. Try test capturing uncompressed .avi for 5 minutes quarter-res with none of the exotic codecs it came with (352x240, I'm sure that ATI allows this) and encode that to .mpg with Panasonic or Xing and take it from there.
-- EMartinez (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 20, 1999.
All those CD burners had failed? It seems like the problem is in the .mpg file. It has to be fully WB compliant in order to get a working VCD. Indeed, if EZcd is warning you, is because the file is not 100% compliant. Make sure it has a framesize of 352x240(288ifPAL), 29,97fps(25ifPAL), 41k stereo sound (not "2 channel" nor mono), videobitrate of 1150kbps, and something sometimes ignored: a packet size of 2324 bytes.
If only one of the above doesn't match, then you'll make a CD that can be anything but certainly not a (playable-in-standalone-DVD/VCD-players) white book VCD.
-- Matias (email@example.com), December 20, 1999.
I agree Matias, again last night I used the Panasonic encoder on Part 1 of my Hawaiian adventure (25 minutes) and guess what, it again burnt a "2 channel" non conpliant file. With LSX 3 it burns the same file as a stero and therefore is fully conpliant but version 3 is not as good as the Panasonic image so where do you go now? Gezzzzzzzz I wish someone else out there running nero and Panasonic could come up with the same fault.
-- Ross McL (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 20, 1999.
Nero warns that the Panasonic-encoded files I attempt to use for VCD are not White Book compliant. There is a dialogue box that asks if I prefer to go on anyway and create the VCD and turn off White Book compliance, etc. I do this, and the created VCD plays as expected anyway on my Pioneer DVK301 and Philips 930 DVD set-tops. I sometimes even use mono (when source is so) for audio because that is covered with White Book and is an option with Panasonic VCD stream creation (192kb/sec as opposed to the more often used 2ch/stereo 224kb/sec) and the resulting VCD created with Nero and Easy CD plays properly on the mentioned set-tops. Panasonic does say, on their website, that the files created by their s/w are not compatible with Nero. I believe, though, that if the end product plays properly, then we've largely achieved our goal, and everything's okay with the world. Happy 2000 everyone!!
-- EMartinez (email@example.com), December 21, 1999.
Hey Ross, if Emartinez is right and Panasonic explicitly says that their files are non Nero compliant, then that's the explanation to your long-old trouble with the "2 channel". Why don't you give a try with Adaptec's? I know it is sometimes a CD-R ruining SW, I used to suffer it a lot; but if you get used to follow a (rather large) protocol before burning with Adaptec, you'll benefit from it, and you will also be able to create a VCD with menus.
The "protocol" which I refer to, is about the configuration of the PC. You have to make certain changes before burning, but I can assure that with these you'll have no "buffer underrun" or other annoying errors so common with EZCD (this was a solution not only in my machine, but also in other 2). After the CD is created, you can go back to your original, favourite, and surely better configuration. Here I go:
0a) If you have version 3.0/3.01 of EZCD download the patch that updates it into 3.01d. This is the most reliable version as far as I'm concerned.
0b) Optional: If you have a non-intel motherboard, download the latest drivers of the MB, this will correctly handle the DMA (bus mastering) and other minor issues such as the energy saving feature.
1) Uncheck DMA under Device Manager/HD controllers/Properties for every hard disk.
2) Uncheck "Autoinsert notification" under Dev.Mgr./CDrom/Properties for both CD/CDR.
3) Set a custom virtual memory under Performance: disk C:, Min=Max=32.
4) Under Performance/File System/Hard Disk set "typical function" to Network server, and set the slidebar below to "Full".
5) Under Performance/File System/CD-rom set Cache size to BIG and "optimize..." to "no read ahead".
6) No, this is not all. Edit the system.ini file, and locate the entry [vcache], under which you should add the following lines:
7) Reboot the PC, and completely defragment the partition where your source files are located.
8) Disable EVERY TSR prog. (antivirus, scheduler, etc.). Then Alt-Ctrl-Del and kill every line except EXPLORER and SYSTRAY (Alt-Ctrl-Del again and MAKE SURE that these 2 are the only remaining)
9) Proceed with the burning.
That's it. Ok, ok, sure it's annoying to do all this. It's even annoying just to read it (and even more to write it ;)); but IT GETS THE JOB DONE. Ok, I certainly doubt if anyone out there is willing to try this long protocol, but once you get used to it, it's not that bad. This protocol is a combination of hints taken out from a diversity of sites including Adaptec on-line troubleshooter, and of course there is a "because" explanation to each one of the steps. But it would be too long to write ;)
Happy millenium Ross, Emartinez, Lone Ranger and every VCD maniac out there!! Cheers///
-- Matias (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 21, 1999.
Hi Matias and EMartinez - Happy season greetings to you both and to everyone else who gets involved here, what a great year its been - well for some........
Thanks for the last two postings guys!
Matias I came through the analogue NLE era nearly 5 years ago and all the things you suggest are standard procedures and tweeks for setting up a PC for video editing. There are slight differences that we arrive at by testing but the main one in your list is that (4) is opposite to the ADS PYRO firewire card recommendations. I do not think that will change things much as I have actually tried it both ways with no noticable effect.
Well last night I went live with full size encodes/burns and as EMartinez says Panasonic produced a non compliant vcd AND in Video Pack 4 I got the old error again (illegal MPEG-1 Packet) so Panasonic is not compatiable with CeQuadrat either, OR both CeQuadrat and Nero do not allow the Mono/2 channel sound option (permitted by the white book spec) in their check of the file.
Maybe Panasonic is actually making a compliant file and it the "others" who are wrong, no one has said that before.
The difference this time is that the VCD did play more than two tracks (never did in the past, maybe thats because I am now on W98SE instead of W95), the interactive menu worked beautifully, the still images were super BUT the encode was full of image problems that Panasonic often gives me - this time large chunks of the picture moved down or across the frame, in one case half the picture was split and moved slightly sideways. No other encoder has given that and I have tried a lot of them. So the end product is useless again, good job its on an RW. I will try and freeze frame the error for all the dis believers!
Matias I have never been able to get Adaptec 3.5 or 4 to even work on my computer, something locks the VCD program up all the time.
Because last night I could play the 3 video tracks 25,28,6 minutes each I will now reinstall LSX 2.51 and hope that more than two tracks can still be played and hope that the interactive bits will also be available. As EMartinez says if it plays a "non compliant" VCD what the heck; files based on LSX 2.51 never did before so I am hoping for better things. Its the only option I have now, the Pansonic image faults make it crap, the picture quality LSX 3 provides with its crawling ants is as bad so where do I go........?
When you have the skills to do these things and its the result of some two bit sofware program done by some two bit programmer who cannot even check correctly to the VCD spec (and say what really is wrong) then its a sad state of affairs for the consumer.........
VCD's are the most frustrating and challenging thing I have ever attempted, but I am not beat yet, well not quite, all I have now is about 12 hours of re-encoding to do and we will see if I quit.
What ever the result Matias you will get a copy!
-- Ross McL (email@example.com), December 21, 1999.
Has it got to do with the file name? My experience was with WinOnCD 3.5 I was trying to drag in a .mpg file but it is a long file name one. It keep refusing, until I change the filename to 8.3 format and it dropped right in. I am not sure with EZ CD Creator.
Just my two cents,
-- Rusman Priyana (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 21, 1999.
Rusman and Guys!
I think you posted that once before because I switched to using only 8 character names after reading that.
Well after last night I QUIT!
I did find out from Nero why I have had so many problems with LSX 2.51 and why I could never play any more than one or two video tracks.
My apologies to all those who have experienced the same problems on my VCD's when trying to play them. I now have an explanation:
I did 5 small renders using LSX 2.51 of 40 seconds each. I checked them in Nero and they were individually "stereo" compliant. I dropped the first one into the comp box and it said 40 seconds on the time bar at the bottom. I dropped the next one on and it filled up the whole CD way beyond the 74 minutes and a red band occurred from 74 minutes to the end. I added the others and burnt the CD with 5 tracks. Yes it burnt. Only one track played and the player locked up. If the files were played on the computer from the hdd, they all played but not from the VCD.
I went back to Nero and dropped each file separately into the comp box and all but one totally filled the CD to 90+ minutes even though each was only 40 SECONDS long. 4 out of 5 had some sort of error from the encoder that caused the vcd burn system to say the cd is full. So depending on how many files you get on the CD before it becomes subject to the "over fill" error as described, is how many you can actually play after burning.
One friend sent me a vcd very early in this learning curve, months ago, with 14 tracks on it of which we both could only play 2, so he also had 12 tracks that would send the time bar into the red, at least I now know the cause and thankfully LSX has fixed what ever was wrong with their program with version 3. If the burning software did not have a time bar indicator then you guys would never know.
Thanks guys, for all the help in the past.
-- Ross McL (email@example.com), December 22, 1999.
Thanks for the info. Your experience you shared with us here is very useful.
But it wasn't me who posted about 8.3 filename :) In fact, I only learn about it last month by accident, not from reading it here either.
-- Rusman Priyana (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 23, 1999.
Excuse me! Doesn't Nero say that it's not capable of menus? And a question: If you burn a multiple file VCD without menus, how would you switch among the tracks from a DVD player?
-- Matias (email@example.com), December 23, 1999.
Video CDs do not have to have menus to change chapters. DVD players have number pads on the remotes. You simple press 1 for chapter one/file one, 2 for the next one, or use the Skip Chapter button. My Home Alone for Hong Kong has chapter stops but no menu. You have to input the number or press Skip Chapter.
-- The Lone Ranger (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 23, 1999.
Hi Matias & Lone Ranger
I think it will depend on the DVD player, my Philips 725 will not allow mer to select random tracks with a number pad unless it is an interactive VCD. You can only play next track or previous track or let it auto matically go forward from the first track.
Thats why I have been busting to use Video Pack 4 to have full interactive control.
-- Ross McL (email@example.com), December 23, 1999.
Last night I downloaded from the "PowerKiller" site a copy of DVmpeg5 and tested it as a plugin to premiere 5.1 and Video studio 3 and also as a stand alone encoder.
In video studio 3 it gave two errors and the output was terminated. I assume that was caused by the Type 1 avi's that the Pyro card generates.
It also gave me the "over filled" vcd that I have reported above.
If EMartinez (who I understand uses this program) or others read this, can I ask if you are using a standalone encoder, what avi format are you using as the source to the encoder. Maybe Cinepack, Intel or What?????????
-- Ross McL (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 23, 1999.
I'm using MJPEG-coded .avi (quarter- or half-res, highest quality (4:1 compression) and full 16b/44k/stereo audio settings) as input material to DVMPEG. This is the main codec that came with the Matrox Marvel G200 vidcap card I use.
-- EMartinez (email@example.com), December 25, 1999.
EMartinez, thanks for the details, a friend of mine uses the earlier runner card for ANALOGUE captures from his TRV 900 and the results have been excellent. The problems most of us face in the new era of DV are different and actually compounded.
The DV camera and editing in DV creates a different set of circumstances particularly from a firewire baseline.
The DV codec used by the PYRO firewire card cannot be resized so one is stuck with a better image but at a full frame size of 720 x 576 PAL or 720 x 480 NTSC. Somehow this must be resized to the vcd format of 352 x 288 PAL or 352 x 240 NTSC and thats the problem that those who can capture at the correct size do not face.
I have now done some resizing using the Intel 5.11 codec and the results are more stable than those using the miro hardware codec almost 5 years old. Problem is that 25 minutes of full frame DV source material takes 17 hours to resize and 4 hours for the Panasonic encoder to create the mpeg-1, almost twice the time of the hardware avi codec based system.
Because the Panasonic encoder will accept Mpeg2 (even to the DVD variable bit rate spec) or previously encoded *.dat files as sources I am about to try direct from the timeline resizing using one of those formats to see if the product is acceptable after encoding.
Hopefully one day the industry will gets to grips with the cutting edge ADS Pyro system and the problem will go away.
-- Ross McL (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 28, 1999.
Hi Ross, 25 minutes of quarter D1 PAL in Indeo 5.11, took 4 hours to encode in Panasonic? Since you are kind of professional in this area, maybe you would do a lot better by upgrading your PC to a dual P-II machine. :)
I am using Abit-BP6 motherboard with dual Cel-300A o/c to 450MHz. Every week I am making a VCD of my cult sci-fi (ST TNG), about 45 minutes length, took less than 3 hours in Panasonic.
A cheap but mean machine, for an amateur :)
May I ask, can Premier 5.1 reads the DV codec AVI and put it in the timeline? I guess not?
-- Rusman Priyana (email@example.com), December 29, 1999.
Professional????, I sell, but that does not make me a pro, your closer to that than I am. I just want the best my equipment will give and I have not quite got it right yet.
Premiere 5.1c will not handle the dv codec at this point in time. Only Ulead Video Studio v3 or 4 has direct support for the Pyro type 1 avi. Ulead VS3 is the slowest most cumbersome program I have had to work with. No doubt 4 is no better.
I look forward to Premiere supporting the codec. Until that happens I have to stick with resizing to another supported avi codec and intel 5.11 has proven itself. The direct from the timeline encodes to mpeg-1 from Ulead VS3 did not get a high enough image quality on pans in motion video, great on stills, although the idea was great and would save a lot of time. Probably the quickest encoder is the analogue Dvmpeg5 but that gave me over full CD's error and only one track could be played provided I used a burner program that did not prevent burning (WinonCD or VideoPack 4).
Your time of 4 hours in the Panasonic is for what? Are you resizing from 720 to 352 wide in that time? My 4 hours is for the actual mpeg-1 encode from the intel 5.11 source, in my 233mmx it runs faster than my works 350 pentium 2. The 17 hours of resizing I found I could reduce to 16 by re booting before starting the resize from the full frame dv to the vcd size in Intel, its the killer, its no longer an overnight, its half the next day as well.
I am now thinking that a dvd related mpeg2 created from the time line might be a better solution and source for vcd's but that means I would have to update to VS4 to find out. The glossy blerb says its good but they all say that. It uses the LSX mpeg2 encoder which I use as a standalone for archive purposes in DVD ready files (variable bit rate up to 9800kb/s). Just how well Ulead have used it is another matter of course.
I am afraid to update because I have an 350 P2 example here at work that is a lot slower than my worked over 233mmx P at home, and, I have 4 PCI slots and all 4 of the others full as well so something would have to go! Whats your MB got in the way of slots?
-- Ross McL (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 29, 1999.
No, it didn't take me four hours. I was quoting you from your message above mine: "I have now done some resizing using the Intel 5.11 codec and the results are more stable than those using the miro hardware codec almost 5 years old. Problem is that 25 minutes of full frame DV source material takes 17 hours to resize and 4 hours for the Panasonic encoder to create the mpeg-1, almost twice the time of the hardware avi codec based system."
Note, you said that 17 hrs for resizing, and 4 hours for encoding, for a 25 minutes material?
I guess you mean for 1 hr material? Anyway, that was about right, if 1 hr took 4 hours in Panasonic.
Gee, 233MMX can do better that PII? It even sounds better than my dual Cel-450. :)
Anyway, another good input there. I may try to grab a 233MMX and try it out for myself!
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
-- Rusman Priyana (email@example.com), December 31, 1999.
No my times are correct for the 25 minute file , 16-17 hours for resizing and 4 hours for the panasonic to get it into vcd mpeg-1 form.
Believe me my computer has been running at home for about 42 hours non stop doing my Hawaiian Adventure in two tracks of 25 minutes. Rediculous!
The enormous resizing times are I think associated with the type 1 avi's that I am faced with from videostudio 3 and the ADS Pyro DV firewire card. I think the actual encode to mpeg time is proportional to cpu speed so a 466 would do the encode to mpeg in about 2 hours and Panasonic is slower than a number of others.
It has been an unbelievable discovery to find my times for resizing have blown out so far - Premiere related projects in the past have taken about 1/3rd that time.
The intel 5.11 codec time has been increased as well because I am using for the first time (maybe the last) a prime frame every frame rather than 1 every 15.
Thanks, catch ya later!
-- Ross McL (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 04, 2000.
I have successfully made a vcd play on a stand alone dvd player using panasonic encoder and Winoncd.. The only thing that I am having a problem with, is that when I use the same mpeg's on easy cd video creator, at the add feature, it says that the mpeg is ok, which I know that it is, then I hit add,, it adds the mpeg, but then there is no mpeg there, it says movie is "0".. can anyone help me on this problem? E-mail me please if you can.. email@example.com.. TIA
-- Steven Eichenberg (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 22, 2000.
Actually, the cause of ECDC crashing is due to the video drivers. Update your All in wonder drivers. There are known issues with some Rage cards. For more info check out http://ask.adaptec.com
-- Gene Pool Life Gaurd (Osage69@hotmail.com), June 02, 2000.