It seems that this whole Y2K problem has people deeply concerned over the probability that there will be an attempt to deprive us of our civil liberties.

Well, does it take an event like this to get the sheeple to realize that we have been losing these right for the past twenty years or more.

The government has been systematically chipping away at our rights for years, and there has been little or no effort to stop it.

Suddenly everyone is amazed and concerned about the role of the government in the Y2K problem. Non of the things I have read particularly surprise me. Government in general seems to care very little about the consent of the governed. It concentrates on controlling the governed.

The Founding Fathers had a deep distrust of power and its corrupting influence on government. We have spent the last 200 years giving the power to the very people we were warned would turn that power against us.

Y2K may serve as a trigger to events that will rob us all of the freedoms we take too easily for granted. WE LET THAT HAPPEN!!

The Constitution states that certain rights are granted to us, not by government but by God, The Bill of Rights was adopted to clearly lay out some of those rights. But every day we seem them chipped away by a government dedicated to the sewlf interests of financial and political elites, while the sheeple are herded into the pens by apathy , ignorance and greed.

I do not know what Y2K will bring, but we all better wake up, read the Constitution, get involved and defend our rights!!!

-- Frodo Baggins (FRODO@MiddleEarth.com), December 18, 1999

Answers

Saruman has deceived the people with his sweet-talk.

-- BS (BS@BS.BS), December 18, 1999.

Here, here.

I've been say this all long. The Constitution was foresaken in the worst possible fashion the moment the Federal Reserve was setup. The Constitution specifically states that the power coin currency shall rest only with Congress.

For those of you who have not seen my posts and do not understand what the unregulated, unaudited, unaccountable private institution (which has nothing more to do with the Federal Government than Federal Express) known as the "Federal" Reserve is all about and at the risk of repeating my self, onnnee moorrre time (as you will see this issue is at the core of EVERY other issue and is without a doubt THE most critical issue period), just look at the following irrefuatable facts about what the Federal Reserve is.

Not believing these would be difficult to do unless you are willing to refute decades of Congressional Records, many court cases and testimony from prominent people and be able to demonstrate the Framers of the Constitution, Jefferson, Jackson, McFadden and many luminaries from Americas past were all fighting some fantom and that text of the actual laws which were passed by congress concerning the Federal Reserve are all bogus.

Federal Reserve/European Banker Families have:

a) the power to get congress to pass an unconstituional law that gives them the sole power to print the "US" dollar (really the Federal Reserve dollar which the US uses as its currency). The Constitution strictly states that only Congress shall have the power to coin money.

So hideous is the Federal Reserve Act that it fully realized the Constitutional Framers worst fears.

You may be surprised to learn that the Federal Reserve is the fourth central bank the United States has had, the previous three having crashed in inevitable raging inflation and widespread economic disaster. So clearly did our Founders understand and fear worthless paper money forced on the public by legal tender laws (precisely what we now have) that they filled the proceedings of the Constitutional Convention with statements of their horror of it. Americans today, deprived of hearing such truth, need to listen to their words:

* George Mason of Virginia: I have a mortal hatred of paper money.

* John Langdon of New Hampshire: I would rather reject the whole [Constitution] than grant the new government the right to issue fiat money."

* George Reed of Delaware: The right to issue fiat money would be as alarming as the mark of the beast in Revelation."

* Thomas Paine: The punishment of a member of Congress who should move for such a law ought to be death."

b) the power to get congress to pass a law to allow them to remain private and unregualted, unauditable accountable to no one and pay no tax even though they are a private organization.

c) the power in 1862 to force the Congress to pass a law that states that the US government should not accept its own currency on import duties it levies on its own citizens and that the US government must accept payment of its Bonds in paper currency but pay interest to the bond holders in gold. Effectively they have the power to make the US Government announce to the world we don't think our currency is good enough for these two items and only gold should be used. Guess where they had to buy the gold from to pay the interest on the original debt. Guess where the importers had to buy the gold from to pay the duties. Guess who got all the gold back when the government paid its interest on its bonds. The bankers who bought the bonds in the first place.

d) The power to cause the US debt to go from $1B in 1913 when the Fed was set up to $24B by the late 20's. How? Because the Federal Government must borrow money simply to keep the currency in circulation. Ever heard of anything so stupid. Yet that is what has been going on since 1913. Ever wonder why the debt keeps growing. It is mathematically not possible for it be paid back.

e) the power to bring a sitting president (Woodrow Wilson) to his knees and state after he signed the Federal Reserve Act to state:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

f) McFadden states in his address to the House of Respresentatives at the height of the Depression:

"Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. "

"Thirteen months later, that promise was broken; and the Wilson administration, under the tutelage of those sinister Wall Street figures who stood behind Colonel House, established here in our free country the worm-eaten, monarchical institution of the "King's Bank," to control us from the top downward, and to shackle us from the cradle to the grave."

"One of the greatest battles for the preservation of this Republic was fought out here in [President] Jackson's day, when the Second Bank of the United Sates -- which was founded upon the same false principles as those which are exemplified in the Federal Reserve Act -- was hurled out of existence."

"Before the Senate Banking and Currency Committee, while the Federal Reserve Bill was under discussion, Mr. Crozier, of Cincinnati, said:"

'In other words, the imperial power of elasticity of the public currency is wielded exclusively by these central corporations owned by the banks.'"

"This is a life and death power over ALL local banks AND ALL BUSINESS. It can be used to create or destroy prosperity, to ward off or cause stringencies or panics."

The Bottom Line is the Fedeeral Reserves controls the country. If the government wishes to do X, and the Fed doesnt agree X will not be done. If the Fedd wants to do Y, the government will comply else the Fed will induce a financial crisis that would get the government thrown out. End of story.

This is called power. This is the power to dictate the American Government. This is the power to have the full resources of the American Government at your disposal to do with as you please. Do not assume for a moment that this power will be foresaken for anybody any time soon.

This power has been enjoyed be these Banker Families since 1694.

In 1694 William III was involved in a war with France. He needed money and he needed it in large quantities. The British coffers were empty so he asked for vast loans of money from a super-rich Englishman named William Paterson and some of his wealthy friends. Paterson and his friends were perfectly agreeable to the loan providing they were allowed to do two things:

1.Set up a privately-owned bank to be called the Bank of England.

2.Receive authority from the king to issue their own bank notes or certificates as the official legal tender of England.

Everything else that you hear and see in the news is just a distraction to keep your attention away from the real worry: The Federal Reserve. You are slaves of the Federal Reserve through your taxes which go to pay them interest and their control of inflation. They require you to pay taxes so they can collect interest. They require the IRS for this. The IRS requires Social Security for this as that is how they have juridiction over you. Guess what everybody knows Social Security is the only government agency that has been taking y2k seriously and has been working on it for 10 years. Ever wonder why? Its because they won't let their jurisdiction and control fail.

In 1862 the Bank of England/Rothschilds (do not be deceived by name, "Bank of England"; Bank of England was/is a *private* bank) issued, and distributed to American banksters, the following document, The Hazard Circular, quoted in part below:

"Slavery is likely to be abolished by the war power, and chattel slavery abolished. This, I and my European friends are in favor of, for slavery is but the *owning of labor*, and carries with it the *care of labor*, while the European plan, led on by England, is that capital shall control labor by controlling wages. The great debt that capitalists will see to it is made out of the [Civil] war must be used to control the value of money. To accomplish this, the Government bonds must be used as a banking basis.

"We are now waiting for the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States to make this recommendation. It will not do to allow greenbacks, as they are called, to circulate as money any length of time, as we cannot control that, but we can control the bonds and through them the bank issues.

Like I said this is called power, the rest is irrelevant and just a distraction to keep your mind busy.

Source links for those who want to read about his themselves:

McFaddeen speech to House of Representatives

The Comming Battle

Book written in 1899 documenting from irrefutable congressional records and laws passed the first 3 attempts to set up central banks since the time of Jefferson and shows the power wielded by the European Banker Families.

Has anyone else thought this explains all the terrorism/hacker warning?

OT?IF Y2k is such a threat why is gold/silver so cheap

-- Intrested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 18, 1999.

Just as we have the separation of church and state ,We must also demand the separation of corporation and state, Until this is accomplished we will be the pawns of the internationalists. Follow the money trail and you will discover the plan and the perp-a-Traitors.there is no conspiracy other than ultimate greed.

-- Ike E. (military@industrialcomplex.com), December 18, 1999.

2 Retired IRS Agents "EXPOSE" the income tax scam.

We are 2 retired IRS Agents and we have witnessed the IRS defrauding Americans for many years. It is destroying the freedoms of ALL Americans. It "MUST STOP" and it is now time to expose this fraud to ALL Americans.

We challenge you to ask ANY IRS Agent to show you a Statute that "REQUIRES" Americans to FILE Income Tax. They cannot find it. There is NO LAW that makes ANY American "liable" or "subject" to pay or file Income Tax. IRS fraud expert, Irwin Schiff 702-877-2833 offers a $5000 award to anyone who can find such a statute.

Bill Conklin from Denver offers a $50,000 reward. His phone number is 303-455-0837, in case you can find such a Statute. His web site is www.anti-irs.com He also offers a "free book" about the IRS that you can download and print up.

The IRS has for many years used Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Implementing and Enforcement Regulations (Title 27) to "ENFORCE" the Federal Income Tax (Title 26) and has used the ATF Regulations to fraudulently take homes and bank accounts away from Americans. Because the Income Tax is voluntary and un-Constitutional, the IRS Code has NO Enforcement Regulations! So in order to BLUFF Americans into paying Income Tax, the IRS uses Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Implementing Regulations to force and to defraud all Americans into paying Income tax that they are not required to pay.

The IRS is DEFRAUDING ALL Americans and is bankrupting and impoverishing America by "GIVING" all our Income Tax payments to the Federal Reserve Bank in payment for the "PHONY' Federal Debt. Look on the back of each and every check of Income Tax payment you have ever paid to the IRS. With the stamp shown below,the IRS has signed over ALL your Income Tax Payments to the Federal Reserve bank. YOUR INCOME TAX IS NOT USED TO RUN OUR GOVERNMENT. This fraud will BANKRUPT America.

The IRS has been defrauding Americans for many years. The IRS has even sent ALL your Social Security payments to the Federal Reseve Bank. Go check it out for yourself and then you will know FOR SURE that we are telling the TRUTH.

******************************************* THIS IS AN IRS CHECK ENDORSEMENT.

Pay any F.R.B. Branch or Gen. Depository for credit U.S. Treas. This is in payment of US. oblig; Must be paid in par N.P. Do not wire none-payment.20-09-0900 Dir.I.R.S. CTR. Kansas City, Missoury. *******************************************

The Federal Reserve Bank IS NOT a Federal bank, but is a private Bank owned by FOREIGN BANKERS who do not pay Income tax! Rothchild, (London), Lazard Bros. (Paris), Israel Seiff, (Italy), Kuhn-Loeb-Warburg,Lehman-Goldman-Sachs-Rockefeller, (New York). In fact, the Federal Reserve Bank has NEVER EVER been audited. Your Phone book PROVES that it is not a Federal Bank. They are listed in the Yellow Pages with all the other "PRIVATE BANKS." They put "Federal" in their name to deceive WE Americans. The Federal Reserve Bank is draining the American economy with the "phony" Income Tax.

AMERICA IS BANKRUPT WITH A $6 TRILLION "PHONY" DEBT.

The Federal Reserve Bank is destroying America! America "WAS" the richest nation on earth, until 1913, when the Federal Reserve Bank was created by foreign Bankers. This was passed in Congress on Christmas "EVE" 1913, when most Congressmen had gone home for Christmas. It was passed by Un-American Congressmen, who had been paid-off and bribed by the wealthy foreign bankers.

Now America is bankrupt with a $6 Trillion phony Federal debt, because EVERY single dollar in circulation has been "BORROWED" from the Federal Reserve Bank. The US Treasury prints our money and then "sells" it to the Federal Reserve Bank for the printing cost. The US Treasury then borrows it back and then we the people pay interest on the "FACE VALUE" of our money to the Federal Reserve Bank with our Income Tax payments to pay for the "PHONY" debt. This is the BIGGEST FRAUD in US history. This is a deliberate and planned bankruptcy to destroy America. Governments are the creators of money, and should not have to borrow it from a foreign private Bank.

Congressman Louis T. Mc Fadden, Chairman House Banking said..."The Federal Reserve Bank CAUSED the Great Depression by DELIBERATELY witholding money out of circulation"...Congressional Record May 23,1933. After 3 attempts on his life, Mc Fadden was poisoned at a banquet! Can you guess who killed him? They steal and plunder from America, but they even kill Americans.

Congress has been lying to you because it is mathematically impossible to pay off the debt or balance the budget with "BORROWED MONEY". President Woodrow Wilson confessed on his deathbed that he committed TREASON against ALL Americans. The Federal Reserve Bank will soon force America into bankruptcy when the interest on the debt has become un-payable. This will cause an economic collapse. This is when our corrupt Government will bring in the "New World Order" and we will be ruled by the United Nations. We will then lose our freedoms and Constitution.

We have already lost our Constitution and Common Law in the US Courts. All US Courts are now under Maritime Military Law with the New World Order, "Gold Fringed US Flag" (Army Regulations 260-10) "displayed" in every US Courtroom with a conviction rate of 97.3%. All US Judges have perjured their Oath to uphold the Constitution and are in CONTEMPT of the Constitution. Just seek the protection of the Constitution and the Judge will tell you to "shut up and sit down". This could NEVER happen in a Common Law Court.

All US Banks also display the Gold Fringed Flag. Many US Police Officers are starting to wear a gold fringed flag patch on their uniforms. Millions of Americans "unknowingly" pledge allegiance to the "Gold Fringed New World Order Flag" at schools, churches and scout meetings.

AMERICANS,IT'S TIME TO GET "MAD AS HELL" AND FIGHT TO GET OUT COUNTRY BACK.

Henry Kissinger said, Nafta and Gatt are the major stepping stones towards the New World Order. Nafta and Gatt caused 28.6% unemployment in Clay County, Tennessee. In 3 years Nafta has cost Americans over 700,000 jobs and more to come! Congress has "SOLD OUT AMERICA.! By the way, what ever happened to the "CONTRACT WITH AMERICA?" How can they forget so easy?

America's Founding Fathers formed our Government to SERVE WE THE PEOPLE and to give us "FREEDOM". Our Government has defrauded WE THE PEOPLE and has turned this around and now ALL Americans are ENSLAVED by our Government by working 5 months EVERY YEAR to pay the Phony Income Tax. That should make you "MAD AS HELL. Read on and you'll get even MADDER.

Our Constitution, Section 9 reads......"No direct Tax shall be laid". This has NEVER been repealed. IT IS STILL LAW. The Income Tax is a Constitutional violation. The IRS Code, Title 26 has NEVER been enacted by Congress into POSITIVE LAW. The proof is in the inside cover of all Titles of US Codes at your local Library. Section 7401 of Title 26 claims that the IRS does not have the power to lien, levy or seize property WITHOUT a Court Order. The IRS NEVER uses Court Orders.

"Notice of Levy" or Lien is just that, a notice, THERE IS NO ACTUAL LIEN!

Americans, you need to challenge the IRS when they try to take your property or bank account away from you without a Court Order. Without a Court Order they DO NOT HAVE JURISDICTION to take ANYTHING.

The IRS has been illegally stealing and plundering from Americans for decades. It is a known fact among IRS Agents that the IRS is responsible for over 500 suicides per month, over half the divorces and 3/4 of the bankruptcies.

THE IRS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT AGENCY.

The proof....IRS Agents cars DO NOT have Government EX-empt License Plates! Most IRS Agents have no clue why. Plus.....the IRS puts 32 Cents Postage on ALL their mail. All Government Agencies get "FREE" license plates and "FREE" postage. Why not the IRS? IRS Agents don't even know why. Most of them have no clue.

Many years ago the Telephone Company "gave" the IRS a Government listing, because of many complaints from people who could not find them in the phone book. The IRS was created through a Puerto Rico Trust and is no more Federal than the Federal Express! As a private Corporation, the IRS is NOT registered to do business in ANY State! Without a Business License, by Law they cannot legally be engaged in business. A "heavy graduated Income Tax" is the Second Plank of the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx 1848! Income Tax is the very core of Communism.

The IRS is only a collection Agency for the EVIL Federal Reserve Bank. The US Tax Court is located in Washington, DC. and has NO branches in ANY State! This is because the IRS ONLY has Jurisdiction (Authority) in the District of Columbia. Challenge their Jurisdiction and refuse to pay their $60 filing fee and your case will be DISMISSED. They only have Jurisdiction "IF" you pay the filing fee, because then you have entered into their arena.

Many IRS publications and IRS Agents handbooks claim that the Income Tax is VOLUNTARY. The word "mandantory" cannot be found in the IRS Code, Title 26. Why do you voluntarily pay Income Tax? Nowhere in the IRS Code can you find a Statute that says that ALL Americans are required to pay Income Tax........NOWHERE!

The US Supreme Court has ruled in Flora vs. USA 362 U.S.145. that the Income Tax is VOLUNTARY. They ruled that..."Our Tax system is based upon voluntary assessment and payment, NOT upon distraint" (Force). Tax liability does not appear on the 1040 Form and is not "defined" ANYWHERE in the IRS Code.

Every Statute says, "IF YOU ARE LIABLE" then you have to do this and do that. They also state that, "if you have a Taxable year"....."IF" means that YOU have to determine IF.... So if you determine that you are Liable and that IF you determine that you have a Taxable year, then you can "voluntear to pay Income Tax. If you determine that you are not liable or that you do not have a Taxable year, you are not "REQUIRED" to pay the Tax.

It is "YOU" who determines that you are liable by voluntarily filing a 1040 Form. Americans make themselves liable by filing Income Tax. If you don't file, you're not liable. Off course the IRS will try to "bluff" you into filing by sending you phony enforcement letters, with 32 Cent Stamps on it, quoting ATF Enforcement Statutes and Regulations.

Before you stop filing, to give you piece of mind, we suggest you place all your assets in a Trust. Your assets should be in a Trust anyway for all kinds of circumstances and protection. If you have no assets, no sweat. Then claim 9 dependents and stop filing and paying Income Tax. Then wisely invest the money saved and then retire in style as a millionaire. Then you will not need Social UN-Security.

The IRS Code, Title 26, only applies to Tax payers and NOT to NON-Tax payers. Always respond to their letters with this statement and tell them they have no Jurisdiction over you. This is called "THE BIGGEST INCOME TAX LOOPHOLE". In fact that this the name of a book by Otto Skinner. $45. P.O.Box 6609, San Pedro, Ca. 90734. This is one of the best books on the Income Tax. Plainly said...."the Income Tax Laws DO NOT apply to you if you do not file a 1040 Return, because you are not a Tax payer". If you are not a Tax payer, you are not liable for the Tax.

YOU WAIVE YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS BY FILING INCOME TAX.

When you sign the 1040 Form under penalties of "PERJURY", you waive your Fifth Amendment Rights, which state that you CANNOT be compelled to give "POTENTIALLY" incriminating evidence against yourself. This makes the Income Tax Un-Constitutional. They get away with this by declaring that the income tax is "voluntary". This is why the IRS Code Statutes say..."If you are liable"... Because if you pay Income Tax, you volunteer to pay. When you volunteer, then you make yourself liable.

The Fourth and Fifth Ammendment of the Bill of Rights give you the right to "refuse" to show your records during an audit. Only if you voluntarily show your records, can the IRS Agent audit them. Americans, STOP VOLUNTEERING anything the IRS asks you to do. They have absolutely No Jurisdiction and Authority over you.

THE IRS CLAIMS THAT OVER 50 MILLION AMERICANS DO NOT FILE INCOME TAX.

In 1991, the IRS reported that there were 163 Million Taxpayers. In a seperate report they claimed they received 111 Million Tax filings for that year. That is 52 Million that do not file Income tax. IRS Commissioner Peggy Richardson claimed in 1991 that one out of five has stopped paying Income Tax and that the Tax revolt is growing. None of them are in jail. Only a handfull is in jail because they yielded to IRS jurisdiction. In fact, you can only go to jail for falsifying Income Tax Returns, when you sign the 1040 Form under penalties of perjury. If you don't file, they DO NOT have jurisdiction. Without Jurisdiction they have no Case.

If they take you to Court,DO NOT HIRE A LAWYER. A Lawyer is an Officer of the Court and he will argue the Case for you because that is how he earns money. REFUSE to enter the Court and stay BEHIND the little fence and challege their Jurisdiction and DO NOT EVER argue the case. Once you argue the case, then you have yielded to their Jusrisdiction.

Become educated and eliminate fear of the IRS. Order the book "Economic Solutions" $8.95. Quality Press. 2888 Bluff Street. Suite 315. Boulder, Colorado. Also order "IRS under Indictment" and learn how to legally stop paying Income Tax. Advantage Publishing 1-916-222-4684.

Devvy Kidd, 12453 West Baltic Ave. Lakewood, Colorado 80228, also has very infomative books. Write her for a brochure!

Senator Henry Belmon in 1969 said....If Tax payers EVER discover that the IRS operates on 90% bluff, the entire system will collapse. Before 1940 there was no Income Tax. To finance World War ll, we paid a VICTORY TAX, which was repealed in 1944. Why are Americans still paying this VICTORY TAX? It is because Americans are COMPLACENT and have fear of the IRS, because the IRS has cleverly made Americans think that they are required to pay Tax.

Order Irwin Schiff's book, "The Federal Mafia" $25 from Freedom Books, Post Office Box 5326, Evansville, IN. 47716. This book is also a MUST. Irwin will show you that....No law requires you to file Income Tax returns! No law requires you to pay Income Taxes. No law requires you to keep books for Income Tax purposes. No law authorizes the IRS to audit you. No law authorizes employers to withold Tax from wages. Talk to Irwin about your Tax problem at 1-702-877-2833. Become educated and order his video's and audio cassettes. He can be found on the internet. His Web site is http:/www.ischiff.com If you have a computer, enter patriot, tax fraud, IRS fraud, etc, on your Search Engines and learn more of what we have been telling you in this letter.

PRESIDENT REAGAN CALLED FOR AN INCOME TAX REBELLION.

President Ronald Reagan, May 1983.... "Our Federal Tax system is, in short, utterly impossible, utterly unjust and completely counter productive. It reeks with injustice and is fundamentally UN-American! It has earned a rebellion, and it is time we rebelled.

On January 1, 2000, ALL IRS COMPUTERS WILL MALFUNCTION.

The IRS has admitted that repairs required to make their computers year 2000 compliant are IMPOSSIBLE to do. All IBM Mainframes will interpret the abreviation "00" to mean 1900 instead of 2000. This will wipe out ALL IRS Income Tax histories. This is a "gift" to all Americans from all the early computer programmers. The time is NOW to stop filing Income Tax.

Eliminate the IRS out of your life, explained on 2 video's,$40. 702-853-2342. IRS Jurisdiction investigated,$25, on video, call 801-377-0570. Weekly Newspaper "The Spotlight" exposes Government fraud. 1-800-522-6292. Their web site is www.spotlight.org

Congress MUST SAVE AMERICA and abolish the "GESTAPO" IRS, Federalize the Federal Reserve Bank, and throw out the foreign bankers from our money system and start printing interest free Constitutional money. (US Notes!) The Constitution only gives Congress the right to create our money and NOT a private bank, run by foreigners.

Income Tax will then no longer be neccesary. Excise Tax, Tariffs and Duties will then pay for Government. When the British Taxed the Colonies, John Adams, John Hancock and other Patriots had the "GUTS" to rebel against their 5% Tax with the Boston Tea Party and the American Revolution. Our country became free because of a 5% tax. Without these hero's we would still be paying Tax to the Queen of England. America needs HERO'S like that again to take our wonderful country back from the "BLOOD SUCKING MONEY CHANGERS".

Now Federal Taxes are up to 39.6%. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE. All Americans MUST become Patriots and UNITE to restore Constitutional Government. Massive Civil disobedience is a "proper form" of Petition for Redress of Grievances and Political Protest. This is the ONLY way to wake up Congress. We Americans MUST force Congress to finally END the Income Tax scam. Imagine what your life will be like without Income Tax! You would be living a life of luxury.

AMERICA IS IN GREAT PERIL.

You MUST sacrifice your time and effort to help us inform other Americans. Being complacent will not save America. Americans have been complacent long enough. Send this message to all your local Politicians, friends, neighbors and relatives. Also send to your local Talk Radio's. When 100 million Americans stop filing Income Tax, the IRS will be powerless and Congress will be forced to stop the "phony" Income Tax.

Mark Twain..."In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, only then the timid join him". Our great country needs true Patriots again. Our Government is totally out of control. Our Government was created to serve We The People. Now we Americans have become the slaves and servants of our Government. Americans are not free anymore.

Our Government forces all Americans to obtain a permit or a license to do ANYTHING. Without these Permits and Licenses we would be breaking the Law. WHAT KIND OF FREEDOM IS THAT? Licenses and Permits are used to control us and to steal money from us. Our Government has taken away our basic God given freedoms! Our Government has TOTAL control over American.

If you want to be free again, we Americans need to overthrow the MOST corrupt Agency first and that is the IRS.

As retired IRS Agents we learned long ago about IRS and Federal Reserve fraud. Because we love America, we MUST expose the IRS Monster we have worked for. It is YOUR Patriotic DUTY to help us spread this news to ALL AMERICANS. UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!

Earl Sorensen & Fred Fuller.

---------------------------------------------------------

-- Stand up for your rights. (st@ndupforyourrights.com), December 18, 1999.

Please DELETE this crap.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 18, 1999.

Ron Schwarts is a un-patriotic asshole! They should send you to Siberia!

-- snorky dorky (snorky@dorky.com), December 18, 1999.

Ron

Why the call for deletion (censorship)? Just because this particular topic falls outside of your particular paradigm of thinking does not mean that it is not relevant to the whole discussion.Some Polly's would have every post here deleted and some Doomers would have all positive posts deleted.Some forum that'd be!

I have regarded your posts as intuitive and thought provoking and am kind of dismayed as to your quick dismissal when it comes to this line of reasoning(fact).I think if you researched this as well as you have y2k you would be able to see the dynamics of the total picture.

Personaly,I see the connection between the FED and y2k,the old mega money and the new elitist's,the rest is mostly noise to keep us chained to the belief system to which we have become accustomed.For all we really know,y2k is something that was anticipated 50 years ago and like a game is only now starting/ending to unfold/end.TPTB are not entities that are satisfied with going with the flow or twisting in the wind,they force the flow and are the wind,we are the leaves and the compost in TPTB's garden,(ol' Bill is just the gardener).

Frodo,IS

Just glad to know your out there,somewhere.

-- capnfun (capnfun@notfun@all.com), December 19, 1999.

I might point out to others reading this thread a warning. Each of you should be very carefull before sending money to a cause you stumble across on the web. Many requests are simply scams seeking to separate you from your cash. But, others might seek to market or otherwise exploit any info you might send. Remember, your e-mail address, bank account number and/or credit card number are quite as valuable to others as they are to you.

Sending money to a cause you hear about on the WWW is like sending money to an address you might read on the toilet wall in the bus station lounge. In other words, you might want to count to ten before you dial that number. At least thoroughly investigate each source before even corresponding through e-mail. Do not assume that other posters who validate a particular cause are objective bystanders. Like any other references you receive from a possible con-artist, they may be part of the scam or be paid contibutors. Also, a 1-800 number is not an endorsement by the Phone company - lots of con-artists start out with such a number.

Sincerely,

-- Uhhmm... (JFCP81A@ao.com), December 19, 1999.

Are we gettig a wee bit OT here folks?

-- (gaggin@my.puter), December 19, 1999.

Uhhmmm:

Thanks again for your warning and here's my previous reply (which is in reference to the Save-A-Patriot organization you were whining about before) from:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001yzL

I wish you'd include it together with your warning, (may be you prefer to just keep perpretrating dis-information because you don't like to be proven wrong). BTW the sites I recommend do not ask for money, and if they do, they have enough solid free research on the site to keep you busy for a while to understand what is going on.

Uhhmmm:

If you'd like to find out more about the organization I suggest you check out:

http://www.informamerica.com/Articles/Information_Center.htm

and

http://www.save-a-patriot.org/

and read the information posted there.

You'll quickly see the depth of the research eliminates these people as con artists trying to get a few bucks from the public.

And if you're open minded you'll learn about the IRS and tax code things you thought could not happen in America. For even more eyeopening information based on congressional records and dilegent efforts of past President's and congressmen to get America free from the clutches of the European Banker Families follow the links I have posted earlier.

Capnfun:

With respect to your comment:

"For all we really know,y2k is something that was anticipated 50 years ago and like a game is only now starting/ending to unfold/end."

Read my posts at the link "Has anyone else thought ..." above. My take is that y2k just came along to help them with their plans. But when it came along it was nurtured by TPTB. You see back in the late 60s the ISO (International Standards Organization) wrote down a spec that dates in computers should be kept with 2 digits (and probably because memory was expensive). But as time went by and by the 80s when memory was not an issue, the standard was never changed. I wonder why? May be because the Federal Reserve Banks (who, with the other banks, had the earliest warning of y2k) realized here's our ticket to finish of our plans. The banks knew about y2k from 1970. Do you know why? Because when they tried to put a 30 year bond on the books guess what it matured in 2000, and so the lights went on in their heads about what is going to happen very early.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 19, 1999.

IS:

I concurr,But I never thought about the 30 year bond issue though,one would have to think that they did indeed know about the ramifications of date problems and how to manipulate them to achieve their goals.Well I guess we are about to find out.

Thanks for the food for thought.

-- capnfun (capnfun@notfun@all.com), December 19, 1999.

capnfun,

You, Interested Specker, la salsa, and others of your ilk have never been seen before, are spamming us with the same message over, and are not telling us anything we do not already know. It is unrelated to Y2K other than it is yet another anit-gov conspiracy theory whose practice will bankrupt and land you in jail real quick. I mean, if you fail to pay your taxes you will quickly wind up in jail. Then you will pay your taxes and a hefty penalty. Your choice.

BTW, it is sometimes difficult to believe that so many tax protesters can just stumble upon a thread such as this one. Do you folks all work for this group? Or are you all the same poster?

Are you posting from a jail cell, or have you even put into practice these wild claims? Can you cite cases and case law where your group has actually benefited a person applying your social philosophy? Are you a not-for-profit organization? If so, are you registered as such with the IRS? If you are an NFP, what is your ratio of revenue to adminstrative costs?

Wondering,

-- Uhhmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), December 19, 1999.

Interested Specker,

Yes, you folks have posted this OT crap over and over. I usually find some way to warn others to the danger of internet scams and the whole tax-protest/christian-identity/bigoted underground sub-culture you represent. You and your avatars retort with additional crap over and over. I usually give up or forget about you, and the thread falls quickly off the main page.

Perhaps you could find some standard subject line like the well respected posts of Stan F. Then the rest of us could just ignore you and go on with our Y2K research. Your solicitation for funds, even buried in a long anti-gov rant, is way OT.

Sincerely,

-- Uhhmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), December 19, 1999.

Uhhmm:

Obviously you have never read one of my posts. I have NEVER mentioned not to pay taxes or anything about what to with your taxes or wheather the IRS is legal or taxes are legal or illegal etc.

It is because of people like who simply can't read English and distinguish between the messages that America is in the state that it is. TPTB know that you guys are illiterate so they can do and get away with what they do.

The ONLY issue I raise is simply what the Federal Reserve is. I also point out what it is not based on my opinion, because I know you don't care about that, but based on what The Framers of the Constitution say about such organizations, President Jefferson, President Jackson, President Wilson, Congressman McFadden and others say. I only wish to let you know what the Federal Reserve, and the 3 other central banks America has had, are.

The most telling quote of all is the President Wilson's RIGHT AFTER he signed the Federal Reserve Act:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

How it affects Y2K is my opinion, and like everyone else's opinion about what will happen with Y2k and why it will happen, you can take it FWIW. You may agree or not that is your choice. But this entire board is full of opinions, that are there to be agreed with or not, about what may or may not happen with Y2K and why.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 19, 1999.

Uhhmm:

BTW I have no affiliation with of the sites I quote. I'm just an ordinary guy letting you know what I have read and respect the opinions of the several Presidents, and America's past luminaries, I quote who would know more about what is really going on than you ever have or ever will.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 19, 1999.

Guy? You know so little about me.

I quote from an earlier post:

Do not assume that other posters who validate a particular cause are objective bystanders. Like any other references you receive from a possible con-artist, they may be part of the scam or be paid contibutors.

So, when are you going to answer my questions?

Sincerely,

-- Uhhmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), December 19, 1999.

Uhmm:

What are questions are you talking about? The stupid ones about if I'm in jail, or about my "organization"? I'm sorry you can't read and understand my last post and continue to have a "consipiracy" going on in your head thinking that only those with an agenda have a brain and the citizen's of this country are just dense lemmings that don't have enough intelligence to understand things for what they are. I give the citizen's more credit than you obviously do.

Any way its pointless continuing this discussion with you. All that I have to say and need say to show your stupdity has been said.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 19, 1999.

Uhhmm:

I have never spammed anyone.

I am not in jail.

I pay taxes (grudgingly!!!)

I do not belong to any group.

I made no claims.

I solicited no money.

Our ilk ? seems just fine,if you were in trouble you would gladly accept our help.

Anybody in their right mind protests these outrageous taxes.

This line of conversation bears directly on y2k,our government has set a pattern of behavior in being untrustworthy,thus our apprehension in dealing with y2k,given our gov's track record do you not think it possible that we have been duped or at the very least mislead? WHY?

If the IRS is toast and payig taxes is on the honor system will you pay your 40%,or will you pay 10% ?(the same as your supposed to tithe)

Think that about covers it.Mudwrestling anyone?

-- capnfun (capnfun@notfun@all.com), December 20, 1999.