In a recent thread by "Lady Logic" I was surprised to find reasonable folks like Mike Taylor extremely upset. In my experience, Mike has been a decent person, and very fair. I did not understand his frustration until tonight when I attempted to visit the Y2K "chat" area hosted by Bokonon. During this time, I experienced first hand what had frustrated Mike so mightily. Lady Logic (real first name "Laura") expended a tremendous amount of energy disrupting the area. At the end, she (or a very wicked imposter) adopted my name.

While I realize many regulars do not agree with me, I do take the Y2K debate seriously. The "chat" area is nice because there is a chance for casual Y2K discussions and general merriment. In fact, I find myself enjoying conversations with bright, articulate folks on subjects not necessarily related to Y2K. (If we vote end-of-the-year awards, Unk D has mine for most humorous.)

In this forum, we have the ability to scroll by "garbage" posts from either extreme. In a live chat area, disruptions are much more difficult. For the record, I completely reject the tactics used by Lady Logic. I also reject her (or anyone's) use of my name in throwing an infantile tantrum. For over a year, I have been loathe to use the word troll... but in this case, the shoe fits.

The sysops can confirm this is my real IP address... and it has always been my real email. The next two weeks may be nerve wracking for some, but for me, it is exciting to see the issue we have discussed so passionately finally come close. I hope we continue to have the ability to discuss Y2K, even as it unfolds. (The sysops have my support in calling this a "crowded theatre.")

And whatever swords we may have crossed... I hope and pray for a safe passage for each and every one of you.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), December 15, 1999

Answers

Hi Ken,

Thank you for the kind words and observations. One of the great gifts Bok has given us is the ability to see that away from Y2k issues many of us have more in common we may realize.

As for Lady, I'll simply say that I agree with your observations 100%.

You wrote, "The next two weeks may be nerve wracking for some, but for me, it is exciting to see the issue we have discussed so passionately finally come close.

Ken, I truly do hope you are right :-)

Thank you for the prayer and the hope and I wish you and everyone here well today, two weeks from now and always.

Mike

==================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), December 16, 1999.

Thank you, thank you...

I feel that I must say thanks to God. And to my Mother, who is watching at home *waves*...Mom was always telling me to believe in myself, and she spent untold late nite hours testing me with the Henny Youngman flash card set....and of course, all of the little insignificant people that I crushed on my way to the top...thank you..thank you so much!

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), December 16, 1999.

Ken,

I have always had mucho respect for you, and I appreciate your thought process. That chat room has gotten WAY out of hand. Tonight is the first time I have visited in about three weeks, and I understand the frustration at this obvious "ploy to disrupt", to put it very mildly.

I hope that woman gets some professional help. She obviously needs it.

I think I will check there from time to time, but I cannot see spending quality time there anymore. I really enjoyed talks in that format with Bardou, Old Git, Riversoma ; ), and company. Maybe when the illogical one earns her padded room, that area will be "habitable" again... Diane this is for you.... (SIGH...)

growlin' at the children....

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), December 16, 1999.

15 Dec 1999: Ken discovers 'trolls' are real

31 Dec 1999: Ken discovers 'shills' are real

06 Jan 2000: Ken discovers 'systemic problem' is real

-- (@ .), December 16, 1999.

Unk-

You crack me up. But you need to give me credit for the Henny Youngman tag, remember dude? See ya in chat, cat.

-- (cavscout@fix.net), December 16, 1999.

"a" you are incorrigible...

snoozin'...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), December 16, 1999.

Idiots

-- by Malcolm (thread@chat.troll), December 16, 1999.

You are now one of the crushed little people cav.....

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), December 16, 1999.

Unk: LOL

Dog: damn. So much for camouflage...

-- a (a@a.a), December 16, 1999.

Ken, I really appreciate knowing your thoughts on this matter. I've enjoyed both serious and frivolous "chats" in Bok's chat room, but quit going there after the invasion of psychosis you have now encountered. This person you mention is really neither polly nor troll. She is someone in desperate need of very serious professional help. I've participated in discussions in the chat room with everyone from "a" to Anita...and that just covers the A's! Overall, this is a collection of decent human beings who just happen to have some wildly divergent opinions. I join you in hoping for smooth sailing, and a soft landing, for all who have gathered in Bok's chat room and this forum. Whatever the outcome of Y2K, we will never pass this way again.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 16, 1999.

Unk--my favorite chatroom lizard--ROTFLMAO!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), December 16, 1999.

I'm really shocked at the change in LadyLogic from just a few weeks ago. I wonder if she is a schizophrenic. In any event, it seems she now has a screw loose, and I wonder if she is having a serious problem like some kind of breakdown or something. Very bizarre.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 16, 1999.

A screw? HAHAHAhahahahahahahhaahahahha

-- not even close (100s@she's.screwed), December 16, 1999.

Decker, you chastized those chat room members who attempted to point out Lady was a problem in that long thread about why she didn't think Y2K would be the end of the world. I looked it up and found you started by saying this: "OK, folks, try a little balance. Ms. Logic is providing her personal assessment of Y2K and the story of her progression from extreme pessimist to dour optimist. It is stated as opinion, not fact." And you went on to say how the people on this forum always shout down people who disagree with them. Lady was attacked because those people had seen her in action at Bok's and knew she was crazy and that her post was grounded in revenge (for being disruptive and asked to leave the chatroom) and not objectivity.

Perhaps an apology and something like, "I jumped to conclusions and I was wrong," would be nice.

-- not (a@lady.fan), December 16, 1999.

Not,

"Perhaps an apology and something like, "I jumped to conclusions and I was wrong," would be nice."

I think that if you go back and read it again you'll see that it was pretty much along those lines...

-- Choirboy (choirboy@hellzchoir.edu), December 16, 1999.

My God.

It appears double dee may be human after all.

Good one "a" - LOL LOL LOL!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 16, 1999.

Wow an issue that both sides can agree on. Something for the history of this forum.

Oh and yes Unk gets my nod, with a getting a very honorable mention.

I have really enjoyed myself in that room it is nice to brighten up someones day as it is to be cheered yourself.

Great people.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), December 16, 1999.

Dear not@lady.fan:

The usual order is:

Draw

Aim

Fire.

Try it sometime, your foot will thank you.

Night train

-- jes a tired ol footballer (nighttr@in.lane), December 16, 1999.

OG,

It's a tie between you and Unc D on Bok's room. I'm glad I've met you both! :-)

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), December 16, 1999.

(((hello all)))

I am so very grateful to the attendee's of the chat-room and Bok for providing said sanctuary. I have not been visiting recently, the disruptions squander valuable time. LL is a master thief and demoralizer her disruptions a pathetic to witness.

I miss the zany, intelligent, philosophical, whimsical and practical rhetoric at the Monkey House.

Ken, thanks for the prayer...I second it!!!

-- will chat again soon ;-) (karlacalif@aol.com), December 16, 1999.

Decker, a week or so ago, you were in the chatroom sucking up to LL's fantasies of you and boring us to tears. I tried in vain to warn you about what she was doing, but you accused me of being a troll. Glad to see there are bounds to your arrogance afterall.

-- Had it (with@that.troll), December 16, 1999.

Not a "fan,"

I know everyone dislikes a nuanced point... but here we go again. Lady Logic's post about her "oil family" was the another steaming plate of unverifiable, third-party opinion provided by an anonymous poster. I judged the post on its content, not its author.

My further points were salient to the discussion. It is not intellectually honest to have different standards for unverified information... one for the "happy face" news and another for the "gloomy" news. In terms of "quality" of information, Lady Logic's post belongs in a big bin with "Mr. CEO" and the countless other 'net- based rumors.

As for shouting on this forum, after nine months I know the knee-jerk personal attacks have driven some people away from the forum. With 15 days left, only the thick-skinned remain. (chuckle)

Do I think personal attacks on Lady Logic are justified? Well, if she were locked in a cabin with Ghandi, he'd smack her. And I'll quickly admit we traded jabs during her little tantrum. I do not hesitate in questioning her behavior... but who can know the true status of her motives or sanity?

Returning to my original point, my main reason for weighing in on the "Lady Logic" thread was to point out the glaring differences in how unverified information ("rumor") is handled on this forum. If you read down the thread, you'll also see that I rejected her inflammatory statements. Furthermore, I tried to encourage her to act in a mature fashion. Was this a mistake? It certainly was ineffective, but I think we are better served trying to engage in civil discussion before we start beating people over the head.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), December 16, 1999.

I can see it now... Nerfballs are standard issue upon entry to Bok's chatroom. A LOT less painful that way, though discussion would be a little more difficult, with all of the distractions.

Anyone know how to squeeze a Nerfball through fiberoptics?

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), December 16, 1999.

Bok's chatroom has morphed into the Laura show. It used to give me a sense of community, and now it is just a waste of time. I got invited to the new chat room, but no one is ever there.

It's sad that one person can disrupt a good thing to the point of ruining it. And it's also sad that so many of you give the "Lady" the attention she so craves. If you would just ignore her, she would go away.

-- semper paratus (better@things.todo), December 16, 1999.

Semper... I agree and after this thread, I imagine I'll find little to say about her. (Though I can imagine she loves the attention.)

Laura... I've read some of your "essays," and they are far from brilliant. You've added nothing to the Y2K debate in terms of original thought or new data elements. Overall, your writing style is sophomoric and painfully self-involved. Perhaps if you had contributed something of substance to this forum, one might be more tolerant of your staggering rudeness.

"Had it," this thread is the first time in nine months I've called anyone a "troll." (Congratulations, Laura, you have made "King of Spain," "a" and "Andy" look like country gentlemen.) If Laura was speaking civilly to me, I was most likely attempting the return the same. Nasty habit, I suppose.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), December 16, 1999.

Others have used my name at Bok's and here at TB, on MANY occasions. It shocked me equally when it first happened, but now nothing shocks me about the internet.

Nobody's using your name, Lady"logic," you're just a worthless lying polly troll. Even if somebody was, you're still getting what you deserve.

-- (brett@miklos.org), December 16, 1999.

Ken, Laura posted on this thread and no one responed to her except you. After all other efforts have failed, may I suggest we should let her 'CRY in the Dark'......

-- Tommy Rogers (Been there@Just a Thought.com), December 16, 1999.

Amazable!

Ken, dude. I could almost share a caffe latte with you.

(Yes... Ken has always been "Ken" when he wasn't being "Mr. Decker." He doesn't troll, just annoys the heck out of *some* of us).

;-D

As I mentioned on the other Idiot thread, my computer wont handle Boks chatroom s/w.

You all do have the option of filing a complaint with LLs ISP... AOL. I already have on behalf of the TBY2K Forum and her spamming actions here.

Bok, as the chat room host, you may want to consider collecting comments, etc., from the regular denizens. Ill be happy to let you know where to send the complaints. As I understand it, AOL has a three strikes and youre out policy.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 16, 1999.

Oh, give it up, Laura. Nobody cares what you have to say anymore. You're wasting our air, you pathetic moron.

-- (brett@miklos.org), December 16, 1999.

Well, I for one stand in awe of LadyLogic, who is clearly the most brilliant TROLL that this forum has ever seen. She can turn ANY chatroom/forum into "The Laura Show", seemingly with the ability to manipulate everyone to lash out with their worst attacks, due to her "innocent" questions, silly chatter about her older and wiser family members, and downright ludicrous logic as to why Y2K will be a non-event.

In other words, Decker, she is pretty much like you, except much, much better at it. Get over it. (Gawd, talk about the pot calling the kettle black....)

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), December 16, 1999.

Spain,

It seems clear you have not read (or possibly understood) my contributions to this forum. The thoughtful pessimists will acknowledge that I've raised some interesting issues and generally conducted myself in a reasonable manner. I've also never posted on this (or any) forum with the intent to "disrupt." I care about having a serious discussion about Y2K.

Your primary contribution to this forum, Spain, has been raising awareness about the "sport" of mud wrestling. You, and your ilk, reach your intellectual limit after a paragraph or two of personal attacks. You also share Laura's smug sense of self-satisfaction with your efforts. You think you are right and feel you are completely justified in your rude behavior. Who are the twins here?

To close, how do your constant attacks and sexist references help anyone better understand or prepare for Y2K?

-- kcdecker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), December 16, 1999.

Ken, you said, "Well, if she were locked in a cabin with Ghandi, he'd smack her."

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

I love it!

rollin' on the floor...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), December 16, 1999.

The Ghandi line is priceless! Consider it stolen for me to use at my leisure. LMAO Ken!

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), December 16, 1999.

Ken;

I must agree with you, who ever is just hammering away at the keyboard scrolling the posts out of sight is defininitly troll city. It is not called for. I have enjoyed the chat and I think that I have a much better understanding of your views on Y2K and such matters from our discussions there. These we real discussions not rants, not trolls, not flames, real discussion. More of that is needed here on the forum at times.

It might help all of us better understand (though not particularly agree) with the other persons position.

A tip of the hat to you Ken. (Buy more preps!)

-- Helium (Heliumavid@yahoo.com), December 16, 1999.

i must admit i responded to ll early on, when i was astonished at what looked like an unreasonable attitude switch at the end of her post. since then, i have managed to forget her comments as soon as i have finished with them.

i am in customer service by trade, and i try very hard to approach every contact with the following philosophy: every one is doing the best they can under the circumstances. if it doesn't look that way to me, perhaps i don't understand their circumstances.

of course, that doesn't mean i have to stay in the same room with them, and it doesn't work 100% of the time, but it helps.

15 days.

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), December 16, 1999.

What's the URL and password for the chatroom?

-- Clueless (?@?.com), December 16, 1999.

Ken:

It is YOU who are playing LadyLogic's game (including now being "outraged" at her antics, LOL), you are just a lot more sophisticated at it. Starting with your first post to this forum, a sort of how-to on "raiding your local Y2K survivalist" by wounding a Y2K prepper's family members so as to draw out the entire family into the line of fire, so you can kill ALL of them and take their provisions. At LEAST 80% of the threads that you initiate and posts that you make are geared to elicit the kind of reactions that LL does. The only difference is that you have to work at it to make it APPEAR that it is merely a "pessimist" over-reaction to an otherwise "logical" argument, based on an "innocent" premise, often using good ol' fashioned family values from your dear old grandfather, ad nauseum.

LL does the EXACT same thing that you do, does not have to work at it hardly at all (her speed at posting verbose yet SEEMINGLY rational responses is breathtaking), and has already gotten more attention in the past two weeks than you have all year.

Kind of pisses you off, doesn't it?

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), December 16, 1999.

KOS

With all due respect to your meaning, knowing that ken and myself (amoung may others) have disagreed, the chat room is for hanging up the gloves and having fun most of the time. As that is the topic of the thread and not Ken postings on the forum we should leave the attacts for other threads.

I am sure Ken will provide you with more oppertunity to comment further :o)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), December 16, 1999.

Spain,

The post you mention was about the folly of fixed position defense. It was not meant as a "how to" manual for marauders, but as a warning against false confidence. Anyone with any tactical experience or training can attest to the post's accuracy. If you care to debate the facts of my writing, feel free. As to offending your delicate sensibilities, sorry.

My writings are not meant to elicit a particular response. In your case, you have only one response to anything you don't agree with or understand... ridicule. There are better writers on this forum, and people with far more technical experience. Still, I'll stand by my contributions to this forum. I think my participation in the debate has been a positive... and you'll find Y2K pessimists who share this sentiment.

As to your "contribution," Spain, I fail to see where you have provided anything but an embarassment to the male gender. You are "Mr. Lady Logic" complete with sexual innuendo and mindless attacks. I now pronounce you troll and troll....

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), December 16, 1999.

The point is moot. It looks like she's now being deleted on sight. We no longer have to endure her inane polly drivel. Hooray!!

-- (brett@miklos.org), December 16, 1999.

Mr. Decker

In the immortal words of Chris Farley:

"THAT WAS AWESOME!!!"

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), December 16, 1999.

The Dog:

If Jesus walked into "that cabin" he would've smacked Ghandi for not smacking her sooner.

Ken and company:

I have often been quite appreciative of the insights (on topic only, of course) of "The King". When you say that he has not provided any benefit here you are only telling me that you are categorically tuning out his posts and not sifting them. Presuppositionalism has always been an ugly garment to wear to the party.

-- Dana (A_Non_O_Moose@xxx.com), December 16, 1999.

KoS is TB2K's best troll basher. A pleasure to watch you at work, KoS :-)

-- phew (trolls@stink.pu), December 16, 1999.

Can see she understands the Christmas spirit. Does she often fantasize about slapping Jesus' silly face?

-- blastpheme troll (beyond@boundaries.electrocute), December 16, 1999.

What a crazy bitch.

-- delete (delete@delete.delete), December 16, 1999.

Attenzione, Squirrel King!!!!!! When thoust greatness can find time, would thee dispatch a member of your esteemed forces to Phoenix!! We have a great need for the city to lose power! Make it 5! Take out the water and cable, as well! Mach Schnell! Thanks in advance!!! - The ever-appreciative furless apes

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), December 16, 1999.

KoS, No. Trust me, and I do not say this with any malice, but if you haven't been to the chat room, you are speaking out of your element. My opinion of KD has dipped at times (specifically, when I felt he was being contrary, just to be irritating), but he has never sunk to the absolute depths that LL has sunk to. In fact, Pro, Doomers Suck and Andy Ray combined, have not sunk to LL's depths. She is crude, sadistic and conniving in her presentation, and apparently considers no tactic or remark to be beneath her, if it serves the purpose of disruption. I understand that you have hardware problems, as far as getting to the chat room is concerned. Seriously, see if you can borrow a friends computer, so you can experience, first hand, the true meaning of "psycho-troll". Not an experience you'll soon forget, I guarentee you. But do it soon, as I do intend to take Diane up on her kind offer to help us get rid of this abomination.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), December 16, 1999.

What's the URL and password of the chatroom?

-- Clueless (?@?.com), December 16, 1999.

http://homest ead.deja.com/user.bok0non/index.html password: newt

-- usually (fun@in.there), December 16, 1999.

Bokonon: It is unfortunate that I cannot use the chat room that you have so kindly provided, as my poor WEB-TV does not support Javascript. All I get is a big white screen. With the exception of LL's antics, I know it is a great place.

Decker: Great, so now I'm a sexist male pig, all because I get off on hot steamy babes that like to mudwrestle. Fine, shall we agree to disagree? With two weeks to go, it hardly seems worth worrying about.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), December 16, 1999.

KOS, Just to set the record straight, I BELIEVE the first post here over Mr. Decker's handle was a cross post by someone else from another forum. the rest is of course histeric.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 17, 1999.

Can King of Spain get in the other room, not Bok's? Is it java too? King, get an e to me. I don't know too much about such, but I can send you the url for you too try?

-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), December 17, 1999.

Spain,

As a libertarian (of sorts), I don't care how consenting adults "get off." What makes you a "sexist male pig" is your nasty habit of approaching anyone with a female "handle" and asking if they mudwrestle. Do you ask the women you work with, or stranger on the street, if they mudwrestle? You may find your juvenile antics amusing, but most people do not. This is not about having a sense of humor... but just having some sense period.

Decker: Great, so now I'm a sexist male pig, all because I get off on hot steamy babes that like to mudwrestle. Fine, shall we agree to disagree? With two weeks to go, it hardly seems worth worrying about.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), December 17, 1999.

Mr Decker

I believe ol' Mudhead has asked a few of the boys to mudwrestle too. Let's give credit where credit is due.

Perverts R Us must be so proud of him!!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), December 17, 1999.

"Well, I for one stand in awe of LadyLogic, who is clearly the most brilliant TROLL that this forum has ever seen."

Excuse Me! Dieter you buying this shit?

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@worldnet.att.net), December 17, 1999.