This was my response to a question posed a few threads down, what do you folks think? I sure would like to know? ______________________________________________________________________

As much as the problems I anticipate because of bad code, embedded chips, Just In Time inventory, and all the other possible things that will cause us grief, the thing I have the least control of is a Nuclear Missle hitting close enough to vaporize me. I'm not sure I want to "wake up sweating" thinking about this one, not a darn thing I can do. I recognize the info provided on this forum is intended to keep us informed about things "As The World Turns" concerning the nuclear threat from various Nuclear Capable nations on our little section of the Solar System, but people, are any of us capable at this late stage of the game, going to change someone's mind enough to get out of a potential nuclear danger zone? I think not, we can't even get the vast majority of the population to even start preparing for the "Three Day Storm" until just after Christmas. (Now that should be an interesting week) But I digress.

Other than a terrorist action (I acknowledge, a scary possiblity), no meaningful, knowlegedable leader in any Nuclear Capable country could not discount the retaliation for such a dispicable act. They, and all the rational people in the "Chain of Command" would have to concur on such a drastic step.

As everyone who frequents this board can attest, our government has had many "Black" programs going on constantly thru the last fifty years. Many of which we have learned about later, and are always somewhat amazed at what they have accomplished. After all, why have many, many countries attempted to spy on us? Our technological advances are the reason the "cold war" supposedly ended. They recognized they didn't have the money to stay with us after the Persian Gulf War, their latest and greatest, wasn't.

Don't worry about Nuclear War from recognized nations, would require some kind of delusionary insanity. (We wouldn't be happy, Me thinks!) My reasoning: Satelite observation, communication evesdroping, and Submarine Nuclear Missile Launching Platforms located (positions virtually unknown) all around our globe. Terrorists could care less, but other than that threat, not something I can convince myself to lose sleep about. I think we have enough on our plate coming up without being overly concerned about that.

Needless to say, I want to be right about this (being incorrect means millions die), and wrong about what I think will really happen. Darn, this whole situation is something I never anticipated having to deal with (nor wanted to) during my lifetime. May we all get thru it as unscathed as possible.

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), December 15, 1999.

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), December 15, 1999

Answers

My thoughts are...not pleasant. I feel that the human species, while extremely intelligent, still has part of the reptilian brain....There is no other species that tortures its own kind- kill, yes, but not torture. Our warfare capabilities have outstripped our emotional growth. I am, sadly, convinced that there will be a nuclear war, probably started my misinterpretation, paranoia, etc. of the "other side" launching first. Things don't look too good right now when you look at Russia's actions and the US responses.........I'm scared.

-- Annie (nanc@fiberia.com), December 15, 1999.

Annie, me too, I just can't rationalize, anybody willingly wiping out our species, for a political cause, sure hope I'm not naive about this.......darn, the whole though bugs me.

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), December 15, 1999.

So much plutonium has gone AWOL in the past 20 years....and when you consider how many people in the world hate us, how easy it is for foreigners to enter this country, how many law enforcement people are home sick or just stoned on any given day....it surprises me that we haven't lost a city yet.

I fully expect to wake up some morning & find that NY, or LA, or even Chgo are "history." It feels inevitable. All the real serious shit seems to happen overseas, but you just know that can't continue forever.

-- wow (that@was.depressing), December 15, 1999.

I would be lieing if I said I was not worried.Obviously I do not trust our government to tell me the truth,or I would not be here in this forum.Should I trust other governments?I do not think so.BUT I am more concerned with our nuclear plants and y2k,than being attacked with missles.I am however concerned about terrorist threats and Anthrax or another bio hazzard being unleached on us. Those 120 cities being prepared for that senario is a big concern. I am not going to be in a bunker or shelter,most officials will. I have decided to start my KI before the 31st as a precaution to any nuclear leaks or explotions.This is all i can do.

-- me (y2kme1@hotmail.com), December 15, 1999.

Tim McVeigh seemed "kind of" too close to home for me, don't ya think? After all, he grew up in my neck of the woods, so to speak, (Less than 25 miles) for his whole life. I find the people (in general) where I live, to be some of the most friendly, unassuming people I've ever had the opportunity to enjoy. Why was he so angry? Wish I knew.

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), December 15, 1999.

Nuclear war in the near future is ineviteable, irreguardless of whether Russia launches on us intentionally, accidentally, or not at all. The former soviet union is bristling with stockpiled nukes, and already at least 86 of those suitcase nukes are unaccounted for. We (the general public) have no idea how many if any of the really serious warheads have dissapeared into the night. Y2K is about to draw a curtain of chaos over these fragmented nations, and indeed much of the world. Whatever slim chance we had of keeping these nukes out of the hands of hostile powers and terrorist will evaporate like morning dew in just over two weeks. Whether it's strapped to the back of a horse crossing the Siberian Tundra, or loaded in the hold af a tramp freighter or fishing boat at least one of those nukes will be headed for the United States. Two hundred years of manifest destiny capped by a decade and a half of outright Imperialism will come home with a vengance. But Y2K may not be that bad, say the pollies. Ok, let's say it isn't. Russia will then continue to crank out Topal M missiles at the rate of four or five per month while China takes over the panama canal and continues its hyperdriver nuclearization of it's army and navy. Within five years the combined nuclear arsenals of the Russians and Chinese will outnumber our own shrinking forces by a factor of five to one, and those weapons will by and large be superior technology to our own aging arsenal. North Korea will have also become a nuclear power as well as Iran and most likely Iraq. Hardline communism will have retaken control of the Russian empire and rabid nationalism will be at its peak. Continued pressure by the U.S. to gain control of the Caspian oilfields will continue to escalate tensions, as well as former soviet republics being courted by NATO. As soon as China feels her strength is unassailable she will take Taiwan back by force, and possibly the Phillipines as well. North Korea will take this cue to assail South Korea in a final reunification effort, and everybody will take the opportunity to take out the United States. Or at least that's how it looks from where I sit.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), December 15, 1999.

Michael, I'm not a philosopher, but believe (to paraphrase the saying) you should prepare for things -that you can change- that will affect you, and not worry to much about those things you CAN'T change, but will affect you. Put your trust in God. Regardless of what happens here, eventually we'll end up in the arms of the Lord.

Merry Christmas,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.com), December 15, 1999.

Nicoli,

I certainly don't want to recognize your views about what may happen. But, on the off-chance you are right, were're pretty much f****d, I sure hope the information your opinion is based on is invalid. Let's hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), December 15, 1999.

I am not a POLLEY nor am I a DOOMER, but IMHO I do not forsee any nuclear crisis nor WW III in our future. I have faith in a loving and careing God who holds his children too near and dear to allow us to utterly destroy his creation. Although most anything is possible, I see a worst cast with respect to nuke puke being an accidental detonation of a warhead reasonably close to a major city somewhere in the world. Thus making a few million survivors extremely sick for a few years prior to their demise. In todays media saturated world this would cause a worldwide outcry for, and eventually lead to the elinimation of all nuclear weapons. Any new Major war would be caused by the use of biological weapons, and ended with conventional weapons. maybe even using some kind of LASER weapon as apposed to projectile style weapons. Some time ago there was a posting on another site which stated, embedded chips would fail at a rate of 5-6%. GM stated that most cars produced after 1984 had at least 100 such chips connected in series such that if 1 failed, it would stop the car from working until the malfunctioning chip was located and replaced. Given this and following an idea expressed in an earlier reply, a best case scenereo would imply that all over the world, these embedded chips also located in the launching and guidance systems of "Our aging Nuclear Missiles" might render the missile itself launch incapable.

-- BAM (donot@disturb.me), December 16, 1999.

1. No. For close in, I prefer a Winchester 94, in the short barreled, .44 magnum version.

2. Seriously, through, I can visualize some benighted, besotted, or beset leader of a marginal nuclear power with delusions of mental adequacy, who might think it was an ideal time to use nuclear weapons. Poor choice...but someone might make it. Especially if things come apart enough, and they want to focus attention on something else, like the border war they would start!

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), December 16, 1999.

read em and weep! http://www.bahaifaith.net/

-- someone (sway4@yahoo.com), December 16, 1999.

I hope I'm right on this one, the thought of being wrong, sickens me.

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), December 16, 1999.

Don't kid yourself. We don't have the means to destroy God's Creation. We do even have the means to eliminate all life on the planet. We might not even have the means to kill every member of the human race. We do have the means to set civilization back perhaps a thousand years. Will we use them? Is a frog's a** watertight? It is not a question of whether someone will nuke someone else (again). It is a question of when and how hard. If you believe otherwise you are a polly.

-- (...@.......), December 16, 1999.

a ... we have the means to destroy it all, 200 times over. Michael, Mcveigh is a goat. There were two explosions documented (one internal {spotlight.org}. Too many unanswered questions. Why were the Feds gone, door locked, no one...on a workday. Where is the remains of the truck? A fertilizer bomb vaporized an engine block from a truck? Yeah, OK. Why were all the remains and remnants from the building hauled away, roped off, and it made a criminal act for anyone to sift through the heap? As for the nukes, we'll just have to wait and see. Interesting, though, wow, in all of the big important cities, you didn't mention Washington, DC. Guess that would be kinda like aiding us.

-- Willy (Wonka@thechocolatefactory.com), December 16, 1999.

I know there are enough of you out there who KNOW how to accurately interprete meanings between the lines .... so I offer you this:

When I was in the military - we would have periodic wargame drills as part of the training and table-top exercises for what many refer to as the Doomsday Scenario, i.e. all out Thermonuclear War. Something one would expect when one is in the military, right?

Well ,when I was later employed in a civilian gov agency, imagine my suprise when I found that we were again playing the same exact internal wargame exercises ... Periodically receiving phone calls, sometimes while I was at work, and sometimes in the middle of the night, and being told to IMMEDIATELY report for a drill response exercise.

With all due respect to all members of this forum, please understand that security clearances, and the oath that accompanied it, will not allow me to divulge the identity of this agency.

My word, my oath, and my honor happen to mean a great deal to me. I left the employment of the gov because they did not treat matters in the same way. When politics, truth, and honor collided, THEIR politics as usual was placed as the highest standard, truth and honor relegated to a role of convenience, so I walked.

Point being ... Critical thinking skills are not just nice, not just important, they are essential to survival. Use them

Many of you have far more knowledge than you may realize, even if your fears tell you to discount them as irrelevent. Your inner voice is seldom wrong, but the interpretation of it frequently can be. Learn to listen to it as well.

I wish all you you safety, security, and all my best wishes for a long, happy, and prosperous life. Use it wisely!

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge. of no-where), December 16, 1999.

My thoughts: they'll explode and kill us. Those who aren't killed will enjoy living with an abundance of decaying nuclei for the next couple hundred thousand years. UNLESS the peaceniks prevail! Long live the peaceniks!! (Stranger things have happened, you know.)

-- mil (millenium@yahoo.com), December 16, 1999.

Willy, I disagree. Mass extinction, possibly; annihilation of all life on the planet, no way, no how, won't happen. Not all organisms on Earth are as fragile as we are.

-- mil (millenium@yahoo.com), December 16, 1999.

Well, I may not be a gross doomer on Y2K but nuclear war is something else.

The USA did not shirk in killing the inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I do not think the Russians will think twice about initiating nuclear strikes. The only factors not persuading them to nuke cities is pure military strategy and economics.

In other words, the enemy's nuclear capability has to be nuked first - including backup facilities such as early warning.

Civilian centres are low priority and the Russians I suspect are not intent on using every precious warhead they have but just enough to do the job - i.e. castrate America as a credible enemy. Remember, to remain a nuclear power after a nuclear is a serious advantage.

Also remember, the precision of modern missiles precludes the need to use huge yield weapons. Devestating entire cities is tactically naive and only may be used for instance to intimidate the enemy to surrender (as in the case of Japan of course).

It must be remembered that an invading enemy want some spoils and booty in their victory - not radioactive ashpits.

Regards,

Shuggy.

-- Shuggy (shimei123@yahoo.co.uk), December 16, 1999.

My thoughts? First off...Good Post Michael; well put.

- If there is a missle launch from anywhere it will not be an accident. - Yeltsin is acting very scary right now. If Russia is decimated by Y2K they won't put up being in the shadow of a properous U.S. - I believe that more likely a terrorist or "surogate" would be the agent of delivery of a nuclear device to the U.S. - And, that a release of a biological weapon is far more likely than a nuke, and potentally far more devestating.

DCK...Got KI (Tetracycline, penicillian and amoxil too...)

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), December 16, 1999.

Nuclear war---used to be considered "unthinkable", right? The weapons which would deter all war.....Well, I've read General Butler's (former head of Stratcom)reports, and those of Bruce Blair who used to be a Minuteman Missileer but now works for peace groups......Based on what I've read, and based on living for 10 years with a man who worked at the Site R (former Underground Alternative Military Command Post), I know beyond a shadow of a doubt we will be nuked. Pure stupidity,but It will happen. If N-war is so unthinkable, how come it's being planned for all the time? How come more and more weapons are being developed? How come Russia has its Doomsday plan and US has the GWEN system--enabling each country to continue launching missiles long after all the inhabitants of the countries are vaporized, burned, poisoned, or blown to pieces. Isn't there any way to stop this craziness???? No one wants nuclear war, but we're all invited.

-- Annie (nanc@fiberia.com), December 16, 1999.