Will Osama Bin Laden destroy the World?

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A unique opportunity has arisen for Mr. Laden. The opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. While the rollover approaches nuclear paranoia in both Moscow and Washington has escalated to fever pitch. Osama has hated us for some time, and the country which harbors him is no friend to Russia. Moreover Russias past and current conflicts with Islamic sects has bred the seeds of revolution in the ranks of it's own largely Islamic popuation. If Bin Laden has been able to procure one of Russias' unaccounted for nuclear weapons, would not the easiest target be Moscow? The detonation of a device in Moscow during rollover while Russia's radar "eyes" are blind would almost certainly result in a massive retaliatory strike against the most likely culprit, the U.S.A.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), December 15, 1999

Answers

Why would the USA be the likely culprit? Why not some rogue terrorist trying to scare everyone into nuclear war. You know, you not the only one capable of thought, Nikoli.

-- (yawnday@y2000.com), December 15, 1999.

yawn, I guess I should have been more precise in my wording. The Russians have an automated counterlaunch system which will fire their missiles in the event a regular timed signal is not recieved from Moscow. The United States is the default target. An unexpected strike on Moscow would actrivate this system, and anyone capable of stopping the sequence would have most likely been destroyed in the blast.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), December 15, 1999.

Usama Bin Laden is being watched by those satellites that can see the hairs on your butt! Didn't Billy Boy Klinton put him in his place ?? :)

-- (Polly@troll.com), December 15, 1999.

Idiot, Russia has radar set up just as we do and can obviously see where the missiles are coming from.

-- Andy Brown (andypbrown@hotmail.com), December 15, 1999.

Andy Brown, please share with us your understanding of how "perimeter" works, in 50 words or less.

-- number six (!@!.com), December 15, 1999.


Yeah Andy we all know the Russian military is full of rational individuals. They are all well paid and eat regularly.

The Duma is full of some of the finest minds gathered from all points of the former USSR. There is not one anti american lawmaker in the whole of Duma. Emotionalism and nationalism is checked at the door. They see the US as their friend ---right?

And Boris Yeltsin always has his facilities up to 100% all the time. He has firm control on all parts of the country, and could never be prsuaded to counterattack his fiend the US.

Boris is not lopking for a fight with westerners right Andy?

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.com), December 15, 1999.


Niokli,

You have first hand knowledge that the USA is the "default" target?

Seems to me that our default targets cover almost every inch of the world, so that in the event of a launch we can hit any given target. I would presume that Russia follows much the same pattern. If they launched all their missles then the default target would be Europe, North and South America, Africa, Australia, Asia, and probably about a hundred islands you and I have never heard of before.

Any attack on Moscow would have to be analyzed and an origin of launch would be determined, and only then would the counterstrike begin. I mean, it's not like they are just sitting over there with a bunch of SCUD missled and throwing them around hoping they come somewhere near the intended target. Remember, Russia spends more money on the military, and especially the nuclear arsenal, then any other program in the country. I assure you, the war machine will be the first thing, if the only thing, that will work correctly.

-- (yawnday@y2000.com), December 15, 1999.


It seems Nikoli's point was that Bin Laden might have a nuclear weapon, not necessarily a missile. If true that a timing signal is needed from Moscow and a nuclear device had destroyed it, his scenario is plausible.

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), December 15, 1999.

Right on Greg,

Don't you guys remember the 60 Minutes + several other credible sources that reported there's been, what was it, over 50 nuclear 'suitcases' missing from Russian military inventories. If one went off in Moscow I think the Chechens would be the first suspects. Is Russia even gonna be in a position to retaliate after the rollover?

My antenna are up. Something's askew in the former Soviet hinterland but I'm hopeful its not as extreme as this thread's contention. Hopefully our Statesmen are smart enough to let this Russian bluster blowoff in Chechnya and devolve into a Russian vs Muslim conflict, that could last for decades. Our smartest foreign policy here is prob to do nothing but I'm fearful we aren't capable of doing whats prudent. The US is too hubristic and Paul Kennedy's Imperialist Overstretch theory will be, once again corroborated.

Our foreign policy in the Caucus is being driven by the same 3 letters as our foreign policy in the Mideast- O I L

-- Downstreamer (downstream@bigfoot.com), December 15, 1999.


We are giving to much credit to Ivan here gang. If a nuke pops outside of the Kremlin, the MFIC's in the bunker will not give two hoots about "Where, Who, How or Why?" If anything, history has shown us that the Russians are amoung the most paranoid people on the Planet. (You'd be this way too, if at any moment you could be arrested, tried and sentenced to death for no decent reason other than for questioning the Government!)

Lenin, Stalin and the rest of the boys fostered a country that is plagued by paranoia, persecution complexes, and a healthy sense of suvival. The Russian Government(s) for the past 70 to 80 years have blamed external sources for their internal troubles. "No bread today? It is the Capitalist West Fault!!" If, on the odd chance that Old-Salami-Been-Rottin' manages to pop a toy on New Years, do you think that the Russians will react all nice an civilized? Answer. No. Their leadership will be safe in bunkers, and the only thing they care about is keeping themselves in power. They will retaliate against the entire planet, and "reduce this world to a burnt out cinder."

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@aol.com), December 15, 1999.



Recent report out indicated that bin Laden had between 12 and 20 pack nukes (saw it on World Net Daily, then heard it on the Clinton News Network, so it may be true).

Nikoli, what are the chances that China is a default target (even w/ recent buddy-buddy talks, Russia & China are still not all that friendly, and China poses more of a threat than the US does now).

-- James (jpeet@u.washington.edu), December 15, 1999.


"yawnday" surely sounds like someone else...

care to guess who?

-- Perry Arnett (pjarnett@pdqnet.net), December 15, 1999.




-- This (is@test.test), December 15, 1999.

src="http://www.ptialaska.net/~rinaldi/conspiracy/nukegif.gif" width="400" height="460">

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@aol.com), December 15, 1999.

Let's don't get viscious here, I just posted this scenario to point out to the people who are always saying Russia is no threat to us that there are multiple ways the Russian arsenal can be brought to bear against us. James, I don't know enough about Perimiter to say whether the U.S. is the only target. The article I got my info from was from Janes Defense Weekly, and it was posted on this forum about a year ago. All it said was the the missiles would launch automatically at their default targets in the U.S. I went to Janes site and tried to find the article but had no luck, most of their stuff is now payperview.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), December 15, 1999.


Bin Ladne is a nobody. He's just the latest patsy to keep your eye of the real opponent. Who is the real opponent. Read the following and find out from irrefutable facts in the Congressional Record, the actual laws of the US, and the publicly stated positions of the Constituional Framers, Jefferson, Jackson and many other luminaries of America's past.

Has anyone else thought this explains all the terrorism/hacker warning?

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00209Z

-- Interested Spectator (is@aol.com), December 15, 1999.


Nikoli is right - the USA is the default target. Along probably with London/Paris i.e. friends of the USA with nuclear weapons. All it would need would be a surface nuke in Moscow to stop the link. When the link stops, the nukes are launched.

one last thing - if I were Bin Laden and wanted to cripple the West I would target Oil - hit the Alakan pipeline, cripple key refineries in the USA, target wells in the Middle East (his territory) - you get the picture. With his resources easily achievable. The price of oil would skyrocket, but the oil producers would still collect in general even at reduced capacity...

As regards Chechnya...the Russians were given carte blanche to bomb away after Kosovo...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 15, 1999.


IS is also right about Bin Laden.

In a similar vein that's why Saddam was not finished off after the Gulf War - ya always need a patsy, an "enemy", to go after as a smokescreen... (used to be Ghadaffi, remember???)...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 15, 1999.


The reason the Iraqi war is not finished is very simple. The Arabs have *never* allowed the US to have a military base on their soil. The Gulf war was created (of course the US won't take the blame because they can say - "Look! Hussein went into Kuwait, how could we have done anything wrong") by the US as a pretext to get those bases setup. Then the war had to be perpetrated to keep them there. Why? Because when the y2k effect happens they'll simply take over the oil to make sure the US Government can get it. Why? Because practically everything of value in the US is about to start running off diesel generators.

Don't think this can happen or our/your government can do such things? I ask you one question - under what circumstances would you allow the US military to take control of the US (i.e. Marshall Law)? The correct answer is "if the US is threatened from within by terrorism")?

Ok now if the government says that is happening tell me just are you supposed to know they are not lying (or have instigated the situation themselves). After all they have been telling us this is going to happen. So indulge me here and follow through, since you don't know if they are telling you the truth, you can not rule this out. All you can do is rely on your sense that such things just don't/can't happen. (i.e. I'm just "another" conspiracy theorist).

So, before you dismiss me off based on just your faith in your government, just have a read of all my replies in the following post

Has anyone else thought this explains all the terrorism/hacker warning?

and see from irrefutable proof from the Congressional Records, the Laws of the US, and America's past luminaries such as the Constituional Framers, Jefferson, Jackson, Wilson, McFadden and others about what the "Federal" Reserve can and is doing right now in the US. I guarantee this will be the most rivetting reading you've ever come across and will make Tom Clancy's novels look like kindergarten stories.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 15, 1999.


"Will Osama Bin Laden destroy the World?"

Here is a more relevant question...

Is Nikoli Krushev completely insane? Answer: Yes

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 15, 1999.


Well I see the village idiot has spoken again. I'm glad to see you are aspiring to be a psychiatrist Hawk, but I don't really think Dr. Seus is good reference material.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), December 15, 1999.

Well I see the village traitor has spoken again. I'm glad to see you are aspiring to be a communist Nikoli, but I don't really think Jr. Nyquist is good reference material.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 15, 1999.

Had to post this again... Just wondering which part of this you frightened folks fail to understand?

======================================================================

Sorry folks... .....I still disagree. Having studied the historical fact that it was OUR military that stopped Chiang Kai Shek's forces from finishing off the reds, thus allowing them to come to power in the first place; in tandem with the fact that the entire Bolshevik revoultion was financed from here in the good 'ol USA with the international banksters footing the bills while arranging the takeover and buildup of the entire Soviet Union, both of those regimes are firmly in our pockets. Neither would have been there in the first place had we not put them there. So now they're going to bomb us? I think not. Look at how we've moved our industry to China, allowed them them to manufacture the goods we used to make, only to return them to this market without having to worry about the tariffs that once protected the American worker. Look at how our best efforts to keep the USSR propped up failed, and yet we still honor Soviet treaties with Russia? Why do you think that is?

.....Most of this nuclear war noise is simply misinformation and outright propaganda to keep the populace in a state of confusion. The strategy of "triangulation" has been at work for many years. USA and China vs. the old Soviets; then Soviets and USA vs. China; and now we're hearing about China and Russia vs.the USA. What a bunch of hogwash! The world government, "beast" system is already de facto in place, and we already have all these tyrannical laws on the books and working before all the people ever even hear of them. I have trouble believing the naivete that exists among supposedly educated people. I mean no offense, but they use the phrase "those that forget history are doomed to repeat it," when a more apt phrase would be, "those that never studied their history will believe anything TPTB want them to believe."

.....Flame away, if you will; but before you do, go study "triangulation" as it's being used today, and realize that the bulk of what we've been taught about the "cold war" was nothing but a farce.

======================================================================

.....As a postscript, perhaps some of you should read what this "Interested Spectator" has to say; while none of us has all the answers, this perpetual speculation that the Russians or Chinese are coming is laughable at best. They are here and have been for a long time. We are Russia and Russia is us. Clue: There were over 950 Soviet agents DOCUMENTED in our state department alone in 1954. Do you think they left voluntarily, or can you show me where they've been arrested? What was the role of the "great" foundations in our society in the last half of this century? What was written in the Reese Commission Report that you can easily extract from the congressional record? Do you really know the 44 goals of communism as they were presented to Congress in 1963, (and why do THEY read like a history lesson of the US for the last forty years?).

.....I'm sure you're a nice person, Nik, are we're all friends here. But if you think that the newspapers and teevee are giving you any better information on foreign policy than they have on y2k, you are sadly mistaken.

.....BTW Mr. Sprctator...Wasn't it April Gillaspie that gave Saddam permission to waltz on into Kuwait so Bush could pound his chest and help alleviate the perceived population problem in Iraq? (I'll probably bounce this to the top a few times to make sure there is a bit of feedback.)

Hawk...

.....You won't win any awards for tact with the way you respond to these folks, but that still fails to invalidate your message.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 15, 1999.


Interested Spectator, Hawk, and Patrick--

Why is it that *any* y2k aware person, seeing how utterly corrupt our national media are, would think for a single solitary second that Osama Bin Laden is anything else besides the straw man he *so* obviously is???

What the..

sean

-- sean (yep@thats.right), December 15, 1999.


Would you mind re-phrasing your question in English rather than slang so us who poor devils that try and stay literate (as hard as it is in the US) can at least understand what you trying to say?

Thanks

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 15, 1999.


Patrick:

I must be getting tired: are you agreeing with me or dis-agreeing?

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 15, 1999.


Interested Spectator--

Sorry. By "straw man" I mean that he is useful for quid pro quo types of deals. I mean, he supplies the KLA, Clinton needs to use KLA, he also needs pretext (straight out of Wag the Dog) for bombing.

Answer: use bin Laden for both.

I happen to know some members of the intelligence community who stated to me that he is another "Noriega," i.e. a CIA asset (albeit one which hasn't rebelled too severely yet) who could be picked up very easily, but allows them (State, CIA) to perform a number of covert objectives while keeping their hands clean.

Saddam was the same thing pre-Gulf War (was a close buddy of US/UK), Mubutu, etc.

sean

-- sean (me@mate.bloke), December 15, 1999.


Mr. Spectator...

.....I, Sir, am wholeheartedly in agreement with your conclusions in regards to both Bin Laden and the money issue. Would that our fellow countrymen do the intensive study required for even rudimentary understanding on some of these issues, we would certainly be facing far fewer tribulations as a people. (I even spelled your handle correctly this time...)

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 15, 1999.


Sean...

.....Bin Laden is just another in the vein of Saddam Hussein, a contrived "boogeyman" to facilitate the Hegelian Dialectic. Perhaps some people have been consumed, (and who could blame them?), by the research concerning y2k to follow some of these other leads. It is my sincere hope that some of what has been learned will be used to facilitate further understanding of the world around us. You have to remember that y2k only recently illustrated to some people that the press is a highly controlled "tool" of the establishment and PTB.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 15, 1999.


Sean:

I must be really getting tired, If I understand you correctly you are generally in agreement with me and that ladne et al are just smokescreens.

Patrick, and those that agree with my posts:

All I can say is that you take a copy of the

Has anyone else thought this explains all the terrorism/hacker warning?

and the

OT?IF Y2k is such a threat why is gold/silver so cheap

threads and pass them to people you wish to introduce to this issue. These threads explain what is at the root of the deinal of our freedoms and happiness. Everything else arises from this issue and dealing with anything but the root will be a waste of time as the root will sprout again.

I found these threads very effective because of the irrefutable mind boggling facts they contain and also contain links to crucial irrefutable source documents for all the doubters to check out for themselves.

As I said in those threads we need an aware and understanding population, the fact they feel that "Resistance is Futile" does not matter. When there are leaders to take these issues on they will be helped by a public that does not then need to be educated and convinced on the topics.

BTW did you read my post in the first link about how far TPTB will take the game, i.e. even to the extent of harming US soldiers and the whole Iraqi population by exposing them all to depleted uranium radition. Take a read at the source article for that post (the link is included).

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 15, 1999.


http://CNN.C OM/1999/US/12/14/us.taliban/index.html

U.S. to Taliban: We will hold you responsible for any bin Laden attacks

Pentagon issues 'force protection' memo

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The United States has issued a "serious warning" to the Taliban authorities who control most of Afghanistan that it will hold them responsible for any terrorist attacks against Americans linked to Osama bin Laden.

Michael Sheehan, assistant secretary of state for counterterrorism, issued the warning in New York on Monday to Abdul Hakeem Mujahid, the Taliban's chief representative to the United Nations.

Bin Laden has been indicted by a New York grand jury on charges of conspiracy and murder in the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania that killed 220 people.

He is living in Afghanistan under the protection of the ruling Taliban militia, which has refused to hand him over to the United States or a third country for trial on charges of terrorism.

Bin Laden followers allegedly caught plotting attacks

State Department officials said those behind the threat prompting the State Department to issue a warning to U.S. citizens traveling abroad through early January were members of the bin Laden network.

U.S. officials say two attacks were being planned, but that the arrest of a dozen of the alleged planners in one Mideastern country does not mean there is no longer a threat to Americans traveling overseas.

"We will hold the Taliban responsible for any terrorist attack carried out by bin Laden's network," said one State Department official, who said that is because bin Laden and other members of his network continue to enjoy safe haven under Taliban rule in Afghanistan.

Top U.S. commanders told to protect troops

The Pentagon sent a memo to the U.S. military's top commanders around the world Tuesday directing them to "take all actions necessary" to protect U.S. troops from terrorist attacks during New Year's celebrations worldwide.

Gen. Hugh Shelton, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, sent the classified memo to the commanders-in-chief of the military's regional commands after the State Department issued its warning to U.S. civilians.

An official familiar with the Shelton memo said it "underscores that we are taking this seriously and doing what we can to reduce the threat."

Pentagon spokesman Ken Bacon would not provide details of any actions that the U.S. military might be taking in response to the latest threat of terrorism, but told reporters, "Without being specific, let me tell you that the military is taking a number of appropriate actions."

Threat warning called 'propaganda'

Mujahid, according to the U.S. State Department, seemed to take the warning seriously. Mujahid has confirmed that the meeting took place but said he was unable to get a formal response from the Taliban leadership in Kabul.

But Taliban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil, called the U.S. warning to Americans about possible terrorist attacks linked to bin Laden "propaganda."

"We informed the U.S. then and we say again today that Osama is not doing anything and it is not possible for him to do anything to another country from Afghanistan," Muttawakil said in a telephone interview from southern Kandahar, the Taliban's headquarters.

Although the alleged plotting against Americans took place in the Mideast, "this is a worldwide threat," State Department spokesman James B. Foley said.

"We're not being specific about the exact nature of the threat because this is something which is under investigation," Foley said.

State Department Correspondent Andrea Koppel, Producer Chris Plante and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 15, 1999.


Hawk...

.....Excellent find... I hope you're not mad about the "tact" comment. That said... I cannot believe that you didn't add just a touch of commentary at the end of this article.:o)

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 15, 1999.


""We're not being specific about the exact nature of the threat because this is something which is under investigation," Foley said."

.....That's because it's terribly hard to comment upon that which is nonexistent.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 15, 1999.


Well, I'm falling in with those pointing to the history of straw men "bad guys" put up at least since the end of the Cold War, and probably since the beginning of modern governments....Bin Laden is the latest caricature for "the people's" viewing and fearing pleasure. Relax,..if it's not an asteroid or acid rain or a naturally ferreted out retrovirus, it'll be a bad guy...and probably not one who's pic is on the TV on every national news show.

--She in the sheet upon the hilltop,...

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), December 15, 1999.


Thanks Patrick, no I'm not offended by your comment. I fully expect to be attacked by some who see me as an obstacle to their agenda because I reveal the deception that is taking place, thus I don't think they are even worthy of the effort it would cost me to be tactful.

TPTB at the highest level (i.e., New World Order, Illuminati) view religious organizations as an obstacle to their long-term agenda. They are using this all-out propaganda campaign to breed fear of predictions of armageddon derived from religious prophecies, in which the millennial transition is often given some significance.

Their objective is to weaken faith within the religious orders, provoke hostility between them, and motivate them to destroy each other. Since the promoters of this propaganda on this forum continue their attempts to destroy our spirit, we need to let it be known that we know the truth, and that we refuse to allow our faith to be diminished by these tactics. Consider the title of this thread "Will Osama Bin Laden destroy the World?" Does that sound even remotely realistic to any sane person? If not, then you should ask yourselves what is the motive for this type of speculation, and what purpose does it really serve.

If it is our destiny to be destroyed, then we should face this fate with faith, not fear. Therefore, these continuous attacks on our spirit serve no useful purpose, except to weaken us so that we may be more easily controlled by our oppressors. Here is just another example of the way in which the propaganda campaign of fear is being used to provoke religions to destroy each other:

http://c nn.com/1999/US/12/13/terror.arrests/index.html

Dozen arrested in alleged terrorist plot against Christian targets

December 13, 1999 Web posted at: 9:47 p.m. EST (0247 GMT)

From Correspondent David Ensor

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. officials have revealed that about a dozen suspects were arrested by local authorities in the Middle East and accused of plotting to attack Christian targets in Jerusalem and elsewhere in the region over the Christmas and New Year's period.

The officials did not say in what countries last week's arrests took place because they said operations are still ongoing.

Some sources also suggest there may have been plans to hit targets in Rome.

Officials said Monday that all those arrested have been linked to the organization of Osama bin Laden, the accused terrorist mastermind of the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

One senior official told CNN that the suspects have confessed to planning two specific attacks.

Authorities said the arrests and the unfolding information about the plot were, in large part, the reason the State Department issued its worldwide caution on Saturday -- advising Americans traveling abroad soon to "avoid large crowds" and "contact the nearest U.S. embassy" for additional advice.

"We do have specific information and we're working to counter it -- the threat," said U.S. State Department spokesman James Foley. "And the information that we have does indicate that the potential attacks are related to end-of-year celebrations, during the New Year and the Ramadan period."

The last U.S State Department worldwide caution was issued on November 12, the same day that several rockets were fired at U.S. facilities in Islamabad, Pakistan. No one was injured in the attack, but officials on site now say the rockets missed causing harm by just a few feet in one case.

Sources say there are indications militant members of the Palestinian group Hamas may also be planning attacks during the upcoming holiday period.

Elite Israeli undercover troops killed two fugitive Hamas militants in a firefight in the West Bank, an Israeli army spokesman said Tuesday.

Intelligence indicated Hamas planned attacks Tuesday to mark the 12th anniversary of the group's founding, the spokesman said.

The Israeli operation was launched on the eve of Prime Minister Ehud Barak's departure for Washington, where he is to meet Syrian Foreign Minister Farouk al-Sharaa for a U.S-brokered peace summit on Wednesday and Thursday.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 15, 1999.


Hey Interested Spectator--

Of *course* I am agreein wid ya, yer tired ole guy!!! Heck, and lot's of other slang terms I can't come up with right now, I totally agree with the notion of the bin Laden as smoke thesis.

Patrick--

I realize people's focus is y2k-centric right now, but it just strikes me funny, I mean you wrote "That's because it's terribly hard to comment upon that which is nonexistent" because you know Foley's just making this crap up anyway, I mean that's what State does, they make shit up, using there covert cronies at CIA, etc.

But what still gets me, is why is that prima facie, obviousness lost upon the rest of the folks here, I mean isn't it just completely obvious.

Furthermore, this same problem badly infects the otherwise excellent coverage by WND. I find that uniquely mystifying.

Thanks,

sean

-- sean (yep@agreein'.slangboy), December 16, 1999.


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