Having read TB2000 for the past couple of months, I have seen the tensions mount considerably since then...best example was in response to the Lady *Il*logic postings yesterday. If tensions are this high and nothing has happened *yet* to change your world, how do you expect to react to the miriad of changes that will take place if we are right and the bottom drops out, or even halfway out ?

This may belong on the prep forum, I'm not sure, so I'll let the sysops move it if they desire. However, IMHO, many of you here need to think about what I am going to say, and you may never spend any time on the prep forum.

Most of you are serious, extremely well informed, very communicative, have your larders well stocked, and have taken precautions to be prepared in most other *physical* areas.....but.....have you thought about how you are going to manage the emotional side of life with the stresses that being in close quarters with family, in uncertain times, will bring ? No jobs, means you'll be stuck at home with the wife/husband/kids, likely with no form of diversion or entertainment (golfing, movies, shopping, bowling, or whatever it is you enjoy doing in your free time). The kids will be home, instead of in school, expecting some interaction from their confused, frazzled, worried, and irritable parents. You will have to share *space* and *time* in a way that you have never been challenged before (just ask any woman whose husband has just retired !!)... and I'm not talking about a long weekend with a myriad of activities to fill the time, and then everything returns to normal.

We are a society driven to seek pleasure and entertainment...a selfish society driven to fulfill our individual needs. If Y2K+ happens as you personally think it might, it will put a serious crunch in your own goals, and needs for self-fulfillment and self-gratification. Are you selfless enough to put others needs ahead of yours in hard times ? Can you survive without your cell phone, pager, laptop, TV, video games, TIMEBOMB2000 forum, etc., etc. ,etc....can you enjoy your family without all of the extranneous *stuff* ?

I worry about a lot of you, just from the things I've read. Judging by your attitudes, I am hoping that some of you are single ! A few others, I wouldn't want to spend time with in an elevator ! I've mentioned no names, so this isn't personal. Take what is valuable and throw the rest away. I mention this all only to get you to *think*.....this is an important issue that will hit you right in the face if you are unprepared.

-- Kenin Marble (kenin17@yahoo.com), December 13, 1999

Answers

Excellent question...we all need to diligently search inside for the answer to this one. I for one have tons of firewood to chop. I can get out of the house and work off my stress.

-- Rod (rspain@webcombo.net), December 13, 1999.

Please don't worry; I'd hate to see wrinkles on your noble brow. As for us: a whole library of books (the kind with paper), a lot of good games (my 5 and 7 year-olds are getting good at chess), story-telling, talk, perusing our new set of 1965 Brittanica (sent by me mum), and that old foolish time-wasting standby, Bible reading and rosary-praying. So really, don't worry--we'll be fine. How 'bout you?

-- Spidey (free@last.Amen), December 13, 1999.

Kenin:

Your point is well taken, but you should be aware of a couple things.

1. Many of the regular posters here (previously) seldom now respond to anything but the most important/personal interest stories, so most of what you see is from "newcomers" like yourself. There have been many discussions of the psychological effects and how to prepare for them, but perhaps not too many in the last couple months(for the reasons I just mentioned).

2. Response to posts like "Lady Logic" : if you look at the history of her posts, you'ld see she was treated OK at first, but it soon became apparent she had nothing worthwhile to say and was purposefully obnoxious or stupid. Most posters here realize we don't have time for such assinine arguments and can't help from being "ticked off" at someone so blatantly wasting our time.

3. One prediction: Come what may on 1/1/00 you'll find the majority of "doomers" here (if web still up) little changed. Maybe relieved or dumbfounded, but still looking at life with a realistic eye, and not unprepared for the concerns you raise.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), December 13, 1999.

Kenin, you raise valid issues but you point to the angry responses on Lady's post as the "best" example for your concern. The ire in many of those posts stems from the vandalisms, insults, extreme profanities and disruptions sprayed like so much stinking hog waste upon the numerous participants in Bok's chat room. I use colorful language myself, but when the person in question attacks me by using that name beginning with C which rhymes with "hunt," you can hardly expect me or anyone else similarly treated to resonate with warm fuzzies.

While there surely will be stressful reactions from forumites if Y2K is anything more than a BITR, they will not be nearly as bad as those in the general, unaware population. BTW, there are threads in the preps forum relating to "Y2K-compliant" activities.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), December 13, 1999.

Kenin, I agree this is a major issue. Rod mentions getting outside to chop wood. For me, it would be ever so much easier if this were to occur late spring when I could lose myself in my garden. But mid winter? Can't imagine a worse time.

My biggest decision related to whether my parents (late 80s) should stay where they were and then bring them down just before or after the rollover, or move them in with me earlier. For a variety of reasons, they came mid-October. It has been the transition from h*ll, but I'm sure if it had taken place at rollover (with my father still not believing that y2k is an issue) it would have been far worse.

Kenin, I believe that a great many of us have been struggling with the emotional preparation, so I worry even more about those for whom impacts will be totally unexpected. I'm not ready emotionally, I'm not sure I could be, but I'm much closer than I would have been.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), December 13, 1999.

I really think the growing tension is normal. Its like watching two people who back different teams before the big game. The talk gets a little louder and a little more abrasive as the days grow shorter. You will see more of these little catfights (with or without mud). It's funny that both sides seem to be fighting more to release the tension than to change anybody's mind. The people who visit have probably mostly decided one way or the other. The lurkers who might be sitting on the fence are going to be sitting on that same fence come January. The Sheeple are starting to talk about y2k and this will increase the number of last minute preppers sighted at the stores. But this is being met by a full court media "don't worry" saturation campaign. This might be enough to keep a lid on things, after all most DGI's will grasp any straw that releases them from the responsibility (financial and emotional) of preparing.

So we see the fights and the reports of new problems cropping up with the systems and the infrastructure. Look at the calendar, there isn't much time left regardless.

The tension will build until the week after Christmas when resignation will sink in to pollies and doomers alike. So come what may keep your arguments tight and the name calling light.

"Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead."

-- Squid (ItsDark@down.here), December 13, 1999.

Excellent points, Kenin.

There was a great deal of discussion about this last fall & winter. Many fantastic threads are buried deep in the archives. Perhaps a few kind folks could dig a few up & breath life back into this weary bunch.

Kenin: "Can you survive without your cell phone, pager, laptop, TV, video games, TIMEBOMB2000 forum, etc., etc. ,etc....can you enjoy your family without all of the extranneous *stuff* ?"

Not only will I survive without the aforementioned, I (the soul) will thrive!

Withdrawal pains - yes.

I am concerned about humanimals at large. Those who won't truly awaken until faced with the whole-life review when the body dies.

Don't cross my path, walking dead, if TSHTF. Unless you show a spark of that which binds us - LOVE.

Best Wishes,

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), December 13, 1999.

Kenin,

I suspect there will be a major increase in domestic violence and abandoned children in 2000, not unlike there was during the 1980s recession in some of the Rust Belt cities; Pittsburgh is a particularly good example. Bad times stress good marriages, but bad times can ruin a poor marriage. Immaturity? Ignorance? Selfishness? All three in combination? Bad times can bring out the worst in those who have these traits.

Your point about being prepared mentally is well taken; however, it's just too late for some families. But... I remember how many mothers and children banded together in Flint, Michigan during the 1980s recession when some of the fathers just lost it, emotionally and mentally. I don't fault the men, necessarily -- it's a living hell to lose a job you've held for 31 years.

My overall point is that a lot of us who have already lived through the last recession have taken to heart the predictions of another hard-hitting recession/depression ... in our case, we're ready to take in my sister and her two children if her husband loses his job and goes to pieces, as we expect him to do. I'm sure there are other out there in similar circumstances.

As for keeping the kids entertained, they have already been weaned from TV and video games and have learned to create their own toys from clay, wood scraps, and cardboard boxes. They are the least of our worries at the moment: a box of crayons and a pile of paper will keep them amused for hours. Would that some of the other adult relatives would be diverted as easily.

-- (ladybuckeye_59@yahoo.com), December 13, 1999.

Kenin:

I think you raise a good point about what everyone is going to do if things get bad. As for myself, I'm married with no kids and will spend the rollover with my parents in the country; in fact, I rented a U-Haul and prepositioned everything at their house months ago. As for what to do during the event itself (if it occurs) I think that I'll spend a lot of time just maintaining things (chopping wood, washing clothes, hauling water, etc.), but I also plan on reading the many books that I've bought in the past year, with the goal of obtaining an "unofficial" masters in economic history.

As for yesterday's fun with LadyLogic, it was all a game for me. I'm completely destressed about y2k because I'm completely prepared. In fact, I found that the more I prepared, the more relaxed I became. I imagine that others have had the same experience. As for goals, the only goal that I have now is to get through y2k; if I do that, I won't feel bad at all.

-- impala (impala@wild.com), December 13, 1999.

Good question, Kenin, I have a den full of books that I've either no read, or read 10+ years ago. I also plan to (if possible) spend time gathering firewood, or other outside work. I know that subconsious tension is mounting in me, and must be for all GIs. My wife said that I was talking in my sleep last night loudly and with conviction, about whose "fault" it was that the power went off. I have no memory of this, but to me it indicates I've got a multitude of "stuff" churning around just below the surface. I don't think the lights will go out at midnight...the infrustructure may die a lingering death, so we may have additional time to mentally prepare.

-- No Polly (nopolly@hotmail.com), December 13, 1999.

Stress can tear apart a family. Years ago, my youngest got in some trouble with the car. Family dynamics split with me supporting the youngest, while other parent and eldest did not. All the other undercurrents popped up, guilt, blame, jealousy, anger. Result from a family that has never been violent - One black eye. One broken window. One cut hand. One sprained arm (from restraining.) One statement a child no longer welcome in home. 6 weeks of no speaking.

Experience - the family is now more resillient. We know that we will not end due to a serious fight and we know the way back to reconciliation.

I imagine a lot of these kinds of fights will occur under y2k stress. I have found a source of helpful books for personal behavior under family stress are the "alanon" daily reflections. Principles remain the same, even if the source of stress is different.

-- anon (anon@anon.calm), December 13, 1999.

Good post Kenin! You raise good issues and I have thought about the situation of being isolated from the normal pastimes of life. It helps to be single of course. I also have enough reading material accumulated to last perhaps 2+ years. Bought a stash of batteries especially for the portable CD player, so I will have some music, at least for a while.

It is too bad that so many children are going to be in turmoil over this. In the short term it will be hell for both the kids and the parents. In the long term, the kids will benefit when their minds are no longer being poisoned by television and other commercial aspects of this hideous state of mind some refer to as the "pop culture."

It is going to be rough. People who can't survive without television are really going to have a struggle.

-- Irving (irvingf@myremarq.com), December 13, 1999.

Good thought. I have prepared for down time.

If the power stays on: Enough house remodeling projects to keep us busy till next summer as we are stockpiling the materials and the usual routine because I think a lot of how this comes down after 1/1/00 hinges on the utilities.

If the power goes off: An enormous stack of unread books, several 1500 peice puzzles to put together, board games, (scrabble is our favorite,) plus I've always needed time to go through my paperwork and organize instead of heaping things into files and other things like this that aren't greatly important in the every day scheme of things, but still need doing eventually. I've got needlework projects begging to get done, a basket of mending to complete, things that need buttons sewn on. Tool boxes and chests could be cleaned up and organized. Things could be sorted in those junk drawers and closets that tend to take on lives of their own. We have two storage units and a greenhouse to sort through. For fun out of the house, we live half a block from an ice skating lake. Put on the skates and blow off some steam. That's in addition to cooking, hauling water, chopping wood, cleaning up, shoveling snow, fixing things that break, etc. In short we have plenty to do, not the least of which would be to take stock and move on to plan B if things go down the toilet. So, if anyone lacks for something to do, come on over to my house and I could find something to keep several of you busy.

-- Ramp Rat (Aviation_R_us@anchorage.ak), December 13, 1999.

Kenin,

We have been home schooling for a couple of years now and have many friends who do the same. It's not as difficult as many believe it to be. With little time remaining, there are still good sources of material available. Sam's Hastings and Books-a-Million all have grade appropriate work books. I suggest you get more than just your childs current level. Goodwill stores are great places to buy books cheap. I have found text books, work books, novels, magazines,craft books.... Goodwill and other similar thrift stores are also great places to find "pretend clothes". My 10 year old daughter loves the wedding clothes we got for a couple of bucks. My kids love to dress up and act out stories they have read or made up.

Cabin fever may be unavoidable, but don't panic. You are stronger (and more creative than you think!

-- grannyclampett (don'thave@clue.com), December 13, 1999.

My son likes the Harry Potter books. One of my preps is to get my wife (who is blind) to buy the complete series in braille (now available from National Braille Press in Boston //www.nbp.org) so she can read to us when it is dark. It cuts down on dangers of open flame when you have a braille reader in your household.

I also bought a game of risk.

Yes, there is plenty of wood to chop. Plenty of water to haul. Lots of things to do. Good luck to you all.

-- David Holladay (davidh@brailleplanet.org), December 13, 1999.

Boredom is not a problem when you are trying to survive. You would be AMAZED at what will entertain a human being. Speaking as one who spent many long days of her childhood locked in a laundry room (yes, locked in, don't worry--lots and lots of therapy years later) I can tell you that it is truly incredible what the mind will do to fight ennui. One of the weekends I was locked in the laundry room, I dug around in some cabinets in there and found a very very old hardcover book. It was a silly second grade level book about some bear family. But on the inside I found my biological father's printing-- as a 9 year old. It had his name and the year 1955. I hadn't seen him in years at that point and missed him terribly (wasn't allowed to see him--long story--lots of injustice). I read the entire book b/c it once belonged to him. I felt so close to him when I had that book. My favorite "being bored" memory.

Another weekend, I burned myself messing with the hot water heater, but that is another story...;-)

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 13, 1999.

Kenin: I have never wasted my time on those articles that become flamers. My wife and I skip over a lot of articles that have no relevance to the current issue. As far as entertaining ourselves if times do get bad, that will not be an issue. Anyone who has had to survive in a life threatening situation finds out very fast that there will be a lot of little time consuming tasks to do in order for your family to survive. If the situation is somewhat less that a 10 maybe books and games will come into vogue. Be not delusioned, family survival will take all the family's effort , young and old.

-- Neil G.Lewis (pnglewis1@yahoo.com), December 13, 1999.

"Be Honest.....have you thought about this?"

Yes, for years...Unlike many I live off the grid. There will be no interruption in power, my computers, VCR, satellite TV system, small electronics projects, shortwave and ham radios will all work just fine. My son can read, play video games, watch movies, take care of the goats, chickens and other critters, play board games and cards, do target practice and all sorts of stuff. I look forward to home schooling him should things go badly in town. I'll be working on producing the next 2 CDROMs in our series about solar energy and independantly powered homes, writing articles for the magazine, producing artwork, etc. There's always chores to do and improvements to make up here at the ranch.

Boredom will not be an issue here. Now, if I were the type that sat around all evening watching TV I could understand it being a problem. Certainly a reasonable question though.

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), December 14, 1999.