I'll give the facts for all you naysayers...

My father (Ken Borzel) works for Northwood Pulp Mill in Prince George, BC, Canada. Last Sunday (15 Dec/99) Northwood tested its ability to isolate itself from BC Hydro, in a power-failure drill.

Northwood has two backup turbines and both failed. The immediate loss of power for the mill precipitated a "crash shutdown" for the mill's 4 digesters, seriously damaging 2. In the words of the steamplant's chief engineer, "...we came within a gnat's whisker of rupturing the boilers and killing the entire mill crew."

On a Sunday, that's approx. 200 men.

I'm advised that the digesters operate at about 700psi. If one goes, "sympathetic detonation" of the rest would flatten a circular area roughly 2 miles across.

In Prince George we have 3 pulpmills, a hydrogen peroxide plant, and a husky oil refinery all within a 5mile stretch. City centre lies downwind (in winter).

Have a nice day folks.

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), December 09, 1999

Answers

Kurt,

I hope your father is aware that you divulged this imformation. You just might have cost him his job.

-- not now (not@now.com), December 09, 1999.

Oh yes, he's aware of it...

He asked me to tell you all.

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), December 09, 1999.

We need more WHISTLEBLOWERS like this gentleman!

-- fatanddumb (fatdumb@nd.happy), December 09, 1999.

Was that Sunday 15 or Sunday 5 1999

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), December 09, 1999.

Kurt,

Very sobering at this late date. Thank God they didn't cross that "gnat's whisker". Please thank your father for asking you to provide this report...gutsy move.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 09, 1999.

It's about time some had the stomach to spill the beans. God know we all hav enough of them. Unfortuneatly they're all stuffed in the celler. Good job Kurt.

-- Miles Borne (Miles@smart.com), December 09, 1999.

thinkIcan:

Good one! Apparently I can't type... I meant 05 DEC/99

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), December 09, 1999.

Thank you to you and your Dad for being so candid. I went to town today and life is so totally absolutely normal that I began to wonder (for the umteenth time) am I nuts!? And then my husband and I rationalize-----well, we would eat spaghetti and tuna in 2000 even if nothing happens. But this is something tangible. Your posting has really shaken me. Pam

-- Pam (jpjgood@penn.com), December 09, 1999.

Thanks for the information. So I guess you just have the hope that the power never ever goes out there, for any reason, or else the whole crew will die. Bummer.

Around here, the power goes out every once in a while. Guess we're just not as lucky as you guys.

-- (duh@duh.duh), December 09, 1999.

duh:

don't be a troll.

I didn't say the test was for a power failure. Power failures happen all the time, but INDUSTRY and EMERGENCY SERVICES have the top billing for power. Northwood's turbines are used daily, as the mill is about 75% self-powered. The FAILURE occurred as part of a power- isolation exercise--a disconnect and independant fire-up drill.

Northwood has never had to use such a drill in recent memory (in the last 22 years) and this mill--like most every mill--is constantly upgrading systems. Apparently, some upgrade failed to take into account safety under some circumstances...

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), December 09, 1999.

I didn't say the test was for a power failure.

LOL

Last Sunday (15 Dec/99) Northwood tested its ability to isolate itself from BC Hydro, in a power-failure drill.

It wasn't a test for a power failure, it was just a power-failure drill.

LOL LOL ROTFLMAO.

-- (duh@duh.duh), December 09, 1999.

Kurt:

Good warning, and I hope lots of places relying on turbines read and test. By the way, did anyone try to figure out what went wrong and fix it?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), December 09, 1999.

duh:

The test was for its ability to isolate itself (COMMA)in a power- failure drill.

Though my grammer isn't the best in the world, I use commas to show among other things, a change in perspective-or context-of a statement.

The drill was to test Northwood's ABILITY TO ISOLATE ITSELF FROM THE GRID. The context for the drill was a total grid failure. Thus, the mill would have to immediately (and I do mean NOW) shut down grid connection, and start the turbines up TO FULL CAPACITY. Something not done in 22 years (my living memory).

Yes, we have power outages, but never a total grid shutdown. When we have power outages, priority power goes (as I mentioned) to heavy industry and emergency services. Rerouting, if you will.

I am sorry I used the term "in a power-failure drill" which caused you such apparent grief. "power-failure" would be more properly said "total grid failure".

Now does this make sense to you?

On another note, why didn't you just ask instead of acting like an accusatory asshole? It's not my personal story. I'm the messanger for my dad. Are you accusing me of being a liar? Do you think you're doing mankind some kind of service by "debunking" true stories?

GET A LIFE TROLL.

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), December 09, 1999.

On another note, why didn't you just ask instead of acting like an accusatory asshole? It's not my personal story. I'm the messanger for my dad. Are you accusing me of being a liar? Do you think you're doing mankind some kind of service by "debunking" true stories?

My, we're quite the testy one, aren't we? LOL

-- (duh@duh.duh), December 09, 1999.

I hate to get picky (or look for hidden agendas), so I'll just post the following for your edification and consideration:

http://www. canfor.com/newsreleases/PDF/n991123a.pdfM (You need the Adobe reader for this one...)

November 23, 1999
Canfor Completes Purchase of Northwood Inc.
VANCOUVER, B.C. -- Canfor Corporation (TSE, VSE: CFP) announced today that it has completed the acquisition of all the shares of Northwood Inc. As previously announced, the purchase price was $635 million payable by cash of $480 million and the issuance to the sellers, Nexfor Inc. and a subsidiary of The Mead Corporation, of an aggregate of $155 million of Convertible Subordinated Debentures of Canfor. Northwood owns and operates a pulp mill located in Prince George, B.C. with an annual capacity of 535,000 tonnes of kraft pulp; four sawmills, two in Prince George, one in Houston, B.C. and one in Upper Fraser, B.C., with an annual capacity of approximately 1.1 billion board feet; and a plywood mill located in Prince George, B.C. with an annual capacity of 167 million square feet. In addition, Northwood holds long-term forest tenures in the Prince George and Prince Rupert Forest Regions with an allowable annual harvest of 3.4 million cubic metres and has a 50 per cent interest in B.C. Chemicals Ltd. of Prince George, B.C. (Canfor owns the other 50 per cent).

(end sniplet)

Now, here's Canfor's Y2K statement from their financials:

Canfors program is presently on track to prepare for the potential problems that might arise in the software of its business and process control systems and those of its key suppliers and customers when the last two digits of the year become 00. The first phase, which involved identifying and prioritizing the potential issues, is complete. The second phase, which involves remediation of the issues identified within Canfors operations and obtaining confirmation from key suppliers and customers that their systems are Year 2000 compliant, is in the final stages of completion. The third phase of testing to confirm compliance of Canfors systems is also in the final stages, with 92 per cent of the issues having been tested and signed off. The fourth phase of identifying and implementing contingency plans is currently underway. While it is not possible to be absolutely certain that all aspects of the Year 2000 Issue affecting Canfor, its key suppliers and key customers will be fully resolved, Canfors management is confident that their program to address this issue will prevent any significant losses from occurring.

Question for Kurt - has Canfor instituted a downsi

-- Nom (nom@de.plume), December 09, 1999.

Sorry for the cutoff previously -

Question for Kurt - has Canfor instituted a downsizing effort at Northwoods yet?

.......

-- Nom (nom@de.plume), December 09, 1999.

Kurt, thanks to you and your dad. God bless to all the family (those cute little guys...)

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), December 09, 1999.

Not yet.

They've advised all non-union employees to "brush up on your interview skills" as CANFOR plans on interviewing all employees after the new year. I deal with the woods division guys of Northwood/Canfor regarding roadbuilding and logging, and they're stressed out to the max.

Canfor has stated that it will get rid of redundant positions, and has come under fire from city hall for affecting employees. Before anyone here flames away, consider that BC has ~8% unemployment, but Prince George has (last count) 16% unemployment.

The purchase was very recently approved, so Canfor's Y2K statement is meaningless for Northwood.

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), December 09, 1999.

Kurt, hopefully this situation will not cause harm there (or near harm) again. Glad they found the fault with time to put a safety margin in place.

This finding is important and hopefully will save lives and property elsewhere.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), December 09, 1999.

Keep in mind also that was a situation in which everyone involved was on high awareness levels ,paying attention to business ,etc.Could easily have crossed that "gnat's whisker" if it was a real spontaneous situation and people were caught unaware.

-- Sam (Gunmkr52@aol.com), December 09, 1999.

Thank you, Kurt. This is potentially a really big story, and I think it's important to connect the dots as far as motivation for placing this story in the public domain.

Stay safe.......

-- Nom (nom@de.plume), December 09, 1999.

Nom de plume:

My father works in the water treatment/effluent section, as a senior operator. He is a union employee and will not be affected by any downsizing. He's been there for 22 years and I don't think he'd lose any beauty sleep if he was laid off. He's about ready to retire anyway.

I am not going to be biased either, as I get my income by working as a Forest Officer, for the BC Forest Service. I stand nothing to gain or lose by Canfor purchasing Northwood.

He told me this story over a cup of coffee, as both he and I are close friends and share stories about work on both sides of the government...but he was gravely concerned about the lives of the shiftworkers--and their families.

That was his motivation for telling me.

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), December 09, 1999.

Duh,

I have been most kind to polly's and have tried to understand their position and learn from them.

When the "way out" doomers start talking about defending their property I don't particularly care for some of their claims.

However, you sir, are a jerk. god help you if you come near one of them. In fact, I hope you come up one of them.

No pity for you, you insulting piece of human waste!

-- the Virginian (1@1.com), December 09, 1999.

When the "way out" doomers start talking about defending their property I don't particularly care for some of their claims.

However, you sir, are a jerk. god help you if you come near one of them. In fact, I hope you come up one of them.

No pity for you, you insulting piece of human waste!

LOL, you sure got me good!! Congratulations.

-- (duh@duh.duh), December 09, 1999.

Everyone:

This arrived by private email from duh. I think either he got the wrong address or he's living in a fantasyworld...

Is this harassment?

(duh@duh.duh) responded to a message you left in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) bboard:

Subject: Response to local pulpmill tries y2k drill, results? TOTAL FAILURE

When the "way out" doomers start talking about defending their property

I don't particularly care for some of their claims.

However, you sir, are a jerk. god help you if you come near one of

them. In fact, I hope you come up one of them.

No pity for you, you insulting piece of human waste!

LOL, you sure got me good!! Congratulations.

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), December 09, 1999.

Kurt:

Don't waste your time trying to explain yourself. You need to realize that debating with someone of limited intelligence is a waste of time. Note that the person has not said anything technical to disprove you. See an idiot for who they really are.

Anything technical to add duh? Or are you just a non-technical moron who has nothing to add except sarcasm. Disprove Kurt. We see your smarta** comments for what it is. The comments of a clueless imbecile who can't debate or disprove Kurt.

Pollys trolls, ya gotta love em'. They're proof positive that there's a place for everyone in this world, even for retardef folks like them.

-- X (X@X.com), December 09, 1999.

This arrived by private email from duh. I think either he got the wrong address or he's living in a fantasyworld...

Ummm, if I remember correctly, this is how the forum works:

1) You post a new message to this forum 2) All replies to the message posted to the forum are automatically sent to the original poster (you) by email.

If you read just a few responses above yours in this thread, you'll see that I was responding to a response by the Virginian. Go ahead and look...that's it, just a few responses up. There!! Now you see? It wasn't a "private email" at all. It was just one of several responses you've received to your original message. And it wasn't directed at you. In fact, the "harassing" comments were made by the Virginian, and directed at ME! How's that for irony?

It's okay that you jumped the gun on this, though. It's been known to happen!! I'd say we're even now, don't ya think??

-- (duh@duh.duh), December 09, 1999.

Thank you AND your father Kurt!

Canadians have almost always had a "tell-it-like-it-is attitude." My Dad was partly raised on Vancouver Island, BC.

;-D

Diane

(BTW... Ignore the trollish-ones).

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 09, 1999.

Kurt,

I always value your posts. You seem to be a rock for the forum. It's unfortunate that some persons have nothing better to do than disrupt a thread to distract us from what is of true value, which is the courage and compassion of your father to step forward despite unknown repercusions to warn the town, as well as all of us who reside near similar facilities. If the lights go out, oh boy am I gonna duck and cover!

PS--side note, it is tragic that Hollywood has sold some folks on the outlandish notion that stupidity is entertaining. Oh, well,...**sigh**

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 09, 1999.

Thank you folks:

You are very kind.

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), December 09, 1999.

Just a question, but what difference does it make to the mill whether the "grid" fails or "power" fails to the mill.

In either case, there is an "immediate loss of power". Correct?

And situations such as storms, etc., could leave this "loss of power" for an extended period. Whether or not the "grid" fails or not. Correct?

-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), December 09, 1999.

Kurt,

When these turbines failed, was it do to any embedded systems (chips)? Will what ever caused the problem be fixed at rollover? Did the plant do any 00 tests?

-- Gambler (scotanna@arosnet.com), December 09, 1999.

Kurt, Thank you for sharing with us. I am so very happy that no one was hurt. Continued health and happiness to you and yours.

How's that map coming along?

;-)

-- (karlacalif@aol.com), December 10, 1999.

Hoffmeister: if you carefully read my explanations to that twit above, you'll see the answer. Not to be rude, but I wish to avoid further fights.

Gambler: I have no idea. I have been a soldier, sailor, firefighter, and forest engineer. I know nothing about what caused the failure, just that it failed. I hope Northwood figures it out though!

Karla: Me too good lady! The map is growing (as our list of friends grows!) The boys are happy, but both have chickenpox (yuck) better now than after rollover though!

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), December 10, 1999.

I too don't understand the difference between this so-called "y2k test" versus a "loss of utility power" test. It sounds a lot more like the latter. Which means that the disaster that nearly happened during the test would be likely to happen if the utility power went out ANY time, for ANY reason.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), December 10, 1999.

KOS: Glad to speak with you! You are quite right, except for one small thing: the company called it a y2k test (whether it was or not, the intent was to drill an emergency action if total grid loss occurred).

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gov.bc.ca), December 10, 1999.

To this thread and Duh:

Sorry, I took up an offense for Kurt. My getting upset with DUH was more about his making fun of Kurt, and therefore his father, than it was about questioning the power problem/test.

Wish my dad was still around.

I apologize for expressing such anger. Please forgive me.

Duh, may I suggest that you debate without the LOL part?

-- the Virginian (1@1.com), December 10, 1999.

It's funny that the creep's in school that had all the answers but no friends could always debate a weak point on petty semantics. Uf corse yu cud tel wen ther arguments wr weak, because they resorted to childishness. Kurt the attacks get weaker the more desperate they become. This means nothing in the grand scheme of things but then we understand that none of "us" has all the answers.

Thanks for the information the pettiness is strongest when the information is first hand. It's funny Deb found how close dangerous chemicals can be to anyone. Before any thought of y2k and infrastructure failures so many things were (are to some) background noise. The closer society has become the closer our field of vision and the less we really notice. I fail to see how the thought that complex systems might fail in part or whole is completely discounted by some individuals. Failure is a warning that we are not the Masters of the Universe. If a "small" chemical plant explosion kills 3 people that small would hardly be comfort if you are one of the 3.

Duh, nothing above was really addressed to you but I am curious ahve you ever read the book Jurasic Park? What was the villian in the book? Maybe there is no villian and maybe there is no "right" side. Just some passing thoughts.

Let's get along and play well together a civilized society allows differing opinions. Welcome to the Republic that is the net.

Have a nice day...

-- Squid (Itsdark@down.here), December 10, 1999.

Many millions of industrial workers are going to be exposed to conditions even more unsafe than normal come January.

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), December 10, 1999.

Kurt, Thanks to you and your "Old Man"...Sounds like he's got a grade- a pair o' cojones for coming forward with this...

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), December 10, 1999.

Chemical plants, pulp-and-paper mills, Steel plants, refineries, many thousand indutrail process plants create their own power - have turbine installations as complex, if not more complex because of all the interfacing systems, than most power plants.

EVERY ONE of them is subject to the kinds of failures - like this - that will SHUT THEM DOWN - immediately and completely - until the control problems are resolved and fixed or by-passed. Been saying that for years - this is typical of the kinds of emergency prolems that will likely occur many thousand times in January, February, and March. (Certainly, we hope that problems will reduce quickly...I hope that few failures will occur as late as 90 days...)

This is part of the "unknown" impact - the effect on the economy of multiple failures in the production, manfactoring, and distribution idustries that have not remediated, or have not fully tested their changes.

---...---

Give my regards to the workers there - I'm glad no one was hurt.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 10, 1999.

Speaking of which - I wonder what the "all the news that fit to print" mass media are going to work on when there are probable losses to the pulp and paper newsprint industry?

Might be a minor problem at Newseek, Time, and the Washington Post too.......but less junk mail too. That willl help with the Post Office backups.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 10, 1999.

Squid,

Howdy! You are so right - it was quite a wake-up to realize I've got an ELF Atochem ~1 mile from my house, and a few other chemical polluting plants less than 5 miles from me. I'm praying that they all shut down for CDC and are extremely diligent with their remediation efforts.

Work together, not against - it's the only way we'll make it.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), December 10, 1999.

Thank you, Kurt, and your father. Important information.

Cascadia is riddled with mills.

Trolls scream and squeak when the info is anon, and then get abusive when the info is identified and specific :-).

Ignore the trolls, get shelter-in-place kits ready, bug-out packs ready, K103, and house in order with God.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 10, 1999.