Last evening I had the surprise of my life, and it was in a painful exchange with a friend from church who has been an important part of my life for several years. I think it is important enough as a revelation of what is in the human heart to help alert others as to what to expect now, and more importantly, when TSHTF.

Let me preface this by saying that many of you know I only read Ed's book the end of May '99, and immediately I GI, I began to alert as many people as I could to what they needed to do to prepare for Y2K. I sent out 30 packets then and there, and since have sent out and handed out at least that many more to others. I fought to be heard at our Vestry and distributed 10 packets to the members, and a huge one to the man who took over the church's Y2K efforts after I'd presented. I have since done lots more research for him. I have stood in the doorway after services and worked feverishly to get the approved literature into the hands of everyone exiting for two Sundays. I have shown people how to do things I've learned here and on other forums. I have saved mega-numbers of cat food cans and have already made 70+ into candles, only awaiting the paraffin, to distribute. I have gone 3X and have another trip scheduled to a pet store for their 5-a-week styrofoam fish containers, and given these to others with the explanation from this forum on how to use these with their cooking pots to continue cooking a meal and save fuel. I have posted anything on this and two other sites that I thought might help anyone else. I have prayed daily for people around the world as we face the disruptions and hardships ahead.

All this being said, last night I was verbally attacked and screamed at by this friend for being SELFISH for having prepared myself the best I could, living from paycheck-to-paycheck and with no savings of any kind, living alone and working daily at age 64, and trying to help my daughter who has triplets!!!

I had called to tell her I had the styrofoam chest and some diatomaceous earth for her, but never got to tell her that. She launched into her vitriolic, screaming diatribe before I could. It began with the words, "All I have heard from you for a year is Y2K, Y2K, Y2K and nothing else. Can't you talk about anything else?" I tried to tell her I'd only known about it for not quite 7 months, but she wouldn't accept that. (I didn't tell her what she's talked about non-stop for the past year, because I was being gracious.)

Next was that she couldn't prepare like I did because she didn't have the room for it! I said, "I have an apartment, and you have a big house and basement and garage." She changed the tack to "Well, not everyone has the salary you have..." and trailed off, knowing in reality that mine is modest, and that she has three adult males in her household and nearby who could easily have prepped for her, and if they'd pooled their resources and a tiny amount her mother's large nest egg, they would be ten times more prepared than my modest preps!

She then blurted out words I can scarcely believe, when she said, "You can sit there and when the rest of us come for help, you have a gun!" I said, "It is intended only as protection against the gangs across the street and other looters...NOT against friends!" She then said, "Well, the rest of us can huddle together and somehow God will take care of us."

When it got nastier, I said, "You have been yelling at me for quite awhile now. This is getting too nasty. I am hanging up." I did. And I first sat in shock, and then wept.

If this is coming from an otherwise giving, friendly, helpful to all servant at church, and someone I have tried to push uphill to have her prep...then folks, WHAT can we expect from others who haven't even this usually good person's morals and ethics and convictions?!?! It was frightening on several levels. I think that as time gets shorter, and people realize that they've frittered away the time and money they could have used to be prepared, they will become very quirky at best, and perhaps even dangerous at worst. Be mentally prepared for this in a way that I was not until last night's shocker. I can still hear the frantic, shrill, loud yelling in my ear. Whew!

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), December 08, 1999

Answers

Elaine, I totally know what you mean and I don't understand, either. I know this Y2K talk seems obnoxious to them, but for these people to say they can't do it, too, insults everyone who has prepped on a shoestring and has sacrificed time and energy to do so. Still, in the end, I am trying not to be angry at them because next year will be a sad one for us all. Those who didn't take heed will suffer even more than we will. Take care, dear, and don't let it get you down.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine:

Very unfortunate. Funny how those who supposedly have so much 'faith' suddenly lose it when faced with what might happen. Not necessarily what will happen, but what might happen.

Bottom Line: Unless your friend is a mentally disabled adult with the intellectual capacity of a baby who can't help herself, you are under no obligation to assist freeloaders. Your friend is certainly not one to talk. As if she is supposed to sit on her funds and live off someone else who has much less than she and her family have? Yah right.

-- Dolly Llama (DollyLlama@Tibet.com), December 08, 1999.

(((((((Elaine)))))))))

Sorry to hear about this. I think people are becoming scared and it's a defensive reaction. Chaulk it up to human nature.

I'm very concerned about how these people who know we've been prepping will react. I think you're right. This is just the tip of the iceburg.

Find peace in what you have already done to help them.

Best wishes,

Mike

===================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), December 08, 1999.

I've quit talking about Y2K with friends and aquaintances. What's the point? I get much the same derisive reaction from these folks.

Yesterday, the Toronto Sun leaked a document from the Canadian gov't detailing their plans for Y2k emergencies. In short - MARSHALL LAW. I recieved a couple of paniced calls from friends. They were astonded to find virtually everyone they discussed this news with were entirely dismissive of any possible problems. How naive!

-- ishkabibble (ish@iwish.run), December 08, 1999.

Elaine,

It sounds like your friend has refused to believe you for the last few months, whether she scoffed openly or privately. Now her defenses are crumbling, as she hears Y2k news from more and more sources, and denail won't work any longer.

That's about as scary a situation as a person can be in, and she's terrified. Doesn't sound like she suddenly hates you, it's that you are the ONLY target for her sudden panic. She can jump up and down on her paper when it reports bad news, she can throw something at the TV, but you are the only person she can take it out on. Try not to take it personally, because she probably doesn't mean to be personal. It's like drowning, where the victim accidentally drowns the person trying to rescue him/her. The first lesson for the rescuer is to avoid getting drowned by the panicking person.

Keep doing what you're doing. Your community is better off because of your efforts, and the total effect of their preps is to make you and your terrified friend safer. We are going to see many terrified people in the next 550 hours.

And another thank-you to the rest of you, who like Elaine have invested immense amounts of effort in the last year or two. You have partly filled a leadership vacuum in this country, and what happens in the next few months will be less painful than it otherwise might, because of what you all have done.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), December 08, 1999.

Somehow I get the feeling I will have a different set of friends next year!

-- rb (ronbanks_2000@yahoo.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine-

First off, you win high praise for all you've done in the uphill battle to warn others. Good on you. Your work makes my modest efforts look lazy and ineffectual.

And you are right, we are going to see more of this as news starts to accumulate. What comes after denial--is it anger? We'll see a lot of it. And on the plus side, some of those we've been warning will click to the situation faster than the rest, and might do themselves some good. We've all laid a lot of seeds out there. Hope some of them come to fruition before the shelves begin to empty.

Best regards,

-- William in Dallas (bcheek@onramp.net), December 08, 1999.

There is an old saying that will apply all too soon:

"If wishes were horses, beggars would be riders."

Sad, sad, sad, but true. I'm sorry you've had this experience, but you know there is only so much that we can do. Try to put aside some more basics to help out...what else can you do?

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), December 08, 1999.

Hi Elaine. It's really sad to hear this story, but it's a familiar one. People just don't WANT to think about the possibility of things going wrong. I know, it's for their own good, but they won't know that for another 23 days or so.

There will be a lot of people coming to you soon looking for help. No matter how much you distribute to them now, they will want more later. It might be an idea, at this late date, to focus your attention on only helping those who want to be helped, and to stock as much as you can in your own appartment.

This isn't being selfish. This lady (and others) will be able to come and ask for help. You will be able to decide how you distribute that help when it's needed most, rather than handing it out now to people who sound as they don't really deserve it.

I'm not suggesting that you don't help this lady, just that if you only have so much to give, it might be better to give to others first.

You have my deepest sympathy and respect.

-- Servant (public_service@yahoo.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine, this is so sad. Even with only 23 days to go, anyone so unprepared and panicky as your friend could still take prudent precautions. Kerosene heaters, camp stoves, candles, flashlights, batteries, fuel, paper products, canned goods, water, and warm clothing are all readily available and not prohibitively expensive. I get the sense that your friend, hysterical as she sounds, will still do NOTHING in the time remaining. It's like she's standing on a railroad track, watching an oncoming train, while screaming at the passengers to save her. If she is not entirely convinced that Y2K will be a non-event, what stops her from heading to Costco or Walmart? Fear can cause a form of immobilization, like a rabbit frozen in the headlights. Your post causes me to wonder how representative this might be of the stress responses of the concerned, but unprepared.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine: I have always believed that if Y2K turns out to be the disaster that I think that it could be, the people who will feel the worst mentally are those who in fact were warned but did nothing. That is, people who are not prepared but never had the opportunity to learn of Y2K beyond the TV/news spin, will not feel half as bad as those who will say, "I knew it might be a big problem, I could have prepared just in case, but I did nothing."

You did all you could. Accept it.

23 days.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.~net), December 08, 1999.

I agree that your friend is frightened an simply taking it out on you. If she was truly unconcerned about Y2K, she would not be upset but rather dismissive and uncaring with respect to your position.

If possible, try to send her the message "Look, I'm not going to push you on this but if and when you are ready to talk, I'll be here." In other words, reach out but make no demands. Offer to help where possible. You may even want to offer her an outing (say a 2-3 hour dinner or shopping trip) where you agree not to discuss Y2K at all. Show her that your friendship extends beyond this issue.

With several of my friends, I've taken the approach "Look, I've told you my take on the Y2K issues. I'll not bring it up again unless you bring it up first. I acknowledge that I could be wrong in my risk assessment, but if I am even partially correct, I felt I had an obligation to tell you. That being done, you'll have to decide for yourself." Then I simply don't mention it again. This has worked fairly well (as far as not straining friendships - I'm not so sure it worked well on the preparations side of things).

I am curious though what has changed your friend's mind about the risk of the situation. Was it your church? She is obviously frightened.

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), December 08, 1999.

I am sorry to hear about your friend's reaction. No doubt she was reacting out of fear. When she contacts you, I would not bring up Y2k unless she does. If she does bring it up, my responce would be that she does have time to prepare if she chooses. You may have to start with the very basics water, fuel and canned food but even that would be an improvement. It is fairly obvious that this woman is stressed out by fear. Her verbal assault was really directed towards herself not you. Pray for her, please! ALSO, please let us know when and if the woman changes her mind.

-- Ruth Edwards (REath29646@aol.com), December 08, 1999.

You should have stopped talking about y2k months ago. Your friend's reaction was entire predictable. My advice now: if you can, SHUT UP about y2k altogether. If anyone asks, say you're now mostly optimistic that it won't be nearly as bad as you thought. Smile. Shrug. Bump in the road. Not to worry. No big deal. Your preps? Gave most of 'em away.

-- it's too (late@now.anyway), December 08, 1999.

Sorry to hear that Elaine.

My little ole mother had a similar experience yesterday with one of her neighbors and best friends. Shes been encouraging this friend for months to prepare, and kept getting the Oh, Ill think about it. or I can come over to your house... you wouldnt refuse me.

Well yesterday mom sort of blew her top at why her friend just wouldnt take some time to prepare, and even offered to drive her to CostCo. Mom then declared that she might feed her, but her freeloading nephew could just starve! Well her friend got all huffy and terribly offended. This is a woman who has a lot of money, but refuses to make a decision.

What would you do?

*Sigh*

As others said, try not to take it personally.

And be sure to buy some *more* bulk beans 'n rice "to share..." and pass out in baggies to the currently-in-denial-but-not-for-much-longer ones. Include printed directions to the nearest "community" shelter, or police station, along with your mini-gift handout.

We're all gonna have some tough choices coming up.

((((Koskinen... Im thinking of you!))))

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 08, 1999.

I understand your feelings....like everyone has pointed out-only so much you can do for others. I've family in another city...I tried to talk to them about it and was derided...jokingly-but inside you know it's serious. I talked to my step-moms brothers step-daughter and she seemed interested and concerned...then a few days later my Dad says "I hear you are going up North with your freind to prepare for the end of the world?" as if I was insane...I played it down but have remained steadfst in providing information with some hopes they will do SOMETHING. Even where I m...my girls parents have ignored her warnings about it for months...then a couple of weeks ago her Dad reads in TIME magazine that it may get serious...he decides it's time to get a woodstove...instead he goes to the local casino and loses the $200 needed to buy it and the extra stuff to install it. We're living in her folks basement and have been prepping...her mom has saved a little...I'm really hoping like hell to be out of here and in her house in another state before hen...sorry to say...but I don't want to have to take care of her family as well as us...there are 6 others plus the wives and kids around here and NONE have done a damn thing...always an excuse for not doing it....guess where they are going when the SHTF???

-- Satanta (satanta@zdnetmail.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine, you've just incurred the wrath of a woman scorned. You'd probably get the same reaction if you knew for 7 months that her husband was cheating on her and tried to gently point it out to her...

She's probably angry at The Powers That Be for misleading her, and hasn't the foggiest idea how to re-direct the anger. Typical.

She'll think about it some and call you soon for some prep advice. A scenario similar to this happened to me just this weekend.

[Advice: don't gloat. Just help. Be gracious when she apologizes.]

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), December 08, 1999.

Some of the answers here had good takes on the situation. However, it is possible that the reason for the lady's reaction had nothing at all to do with Y2K. Rather, it could have more to do with her view of life -perhaps she is a difficult person who takes her frustrations out on whatever poor soul comes into her crosshairs. She is mean, and she will simply get meaner as she gets older. We, the nice people of the world wonder what we have done wrong when she goes off on us. It is not us. Do not think that your behavior in any way contributed to her explosion, for if it wasn't you, it would be the very next person who crossd her path. Avoid her. If you try to reason with her, you will be the loser.

-- Dr. Fish (shrink@shrunkem.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine,

Thank you for sharing this story. We have all talked in abstractions about what DGI's "might" do, and how we "plan" to react, but the details you shared make it so real for me, and challenges me to better my plans.

You are truly a saint for all you did, and you had no more to give through these months. I think praying to turn the rest over to God may be wise. You were a true shephard, and helped more than you will EVER know, so let God know that you are tired, and need for Him to now go before you to prepare the way.

Your resources (food, time, energy, etc.) are very limited, and I am sure God has specific plans for how He wants you to spend these resources. Now I think it is time for you to recognize that from this point on you are powerless and so the plan belongs to Him.

These past 2 days my skies are full of Chemtrails and I'm having alot of neural responses, including shooting pains and tingling in my back and legs. There are so many last minute things I would like to do for myself and family, as well as friends, but apparently I am very sensitive to this cross-spray stuff and so am afraid to spend time outdoors. I'm struggling to turn these weeks over to God to lead me, should I isolate for health, or rush around prepping? I feel God wants me to focus on stillness today, and trust. Maybe He will have something else for me tomorrow.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 08, 1999.

People will be people. Elaine, I'm sorry to hear that your friend detonated on you. Hopefully she will pull her head out of her 'fourth-point-of-contact' and realize she needs to apologise to you.(as you are probably the only one with any sort of GI knowedge) If she contiues in her way however, and doesn't come around, I'd be really careful of her. The line "You can sit there and when the rest of us come for help, you have a gun!" really makes me nervous in the respect that this woman already has decided in her own mind that you A) are unwilling to share, and B) are armed and will protect yourself.

Usually, a person like this (from my experience) are the first ones to "point the finger" so to speak. "She has food...but she won't share...I say we take it!!! But we have to be careful, she has a gun...Let me go first...she already said she wouldn't shoot a friend..." Call me paranoid, but my paranoia ha skept me alive for a long time in some bad situations. I like to think of it as a 'healthy sense of survival.' You might want to distance yourself from this woman. Its really for the best, especially if all hell does break loose. My old instructor had a really cold blooded statement regarding this kind of thing...(and I know I'll get flamed for it...) "Better to have a dead "friend" at your feet, than a live enemy at your back."

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), December 08, 1999.

All your warnings about Y2K, yet not one offer to share your Y2K preparations with your friend if she was in need?

To make and keep friends, you must be a friend.

Perhaps many of your Y2K 'conversations' ... were viewed as Y2K 'lectures' by your friend. I'm surprised she waited so long to tell you she's tired of hearing about Y2K.

Make your point once, set a good example, and don't force your beliefs on people who don't agree or are not interested.

Almost all government press releases tell people like your friend that Y2K will be over in no more than three days -- for you to be right about Y2K, you'd have to convince your friend the government is wrong. That's tough to do.

-- Richard Greene (Rgreene2@ford.com), December 08, 1999.

I think she now suspicions that she might have been wrong and you right. There are lots of people who cannot tolerate being wrong and accept self responsibility for their own, or lack of, decicions. Therefore they go through life blaming others for their own problems. I came up against this very same thing with a neighbor. Its their loss, but they don't know it yet. I wonder if they will have the guts to come to our place and pump water with our hand pump? Its hunkering down time and its coming down to survival of the fittest. And our mental health is going to be greatly challenged along with our physical health. God Bless you for all that you have done. I am sure that there are people who DID take your information and prepare. Taz

-- Taz (Tassi123@aol.com), December 08, 1999.

I posted this on the Hyatt forum today. You might want to read it, as it touches on this theme.

Mad Max? When will you know?

23 days remain.

-- Dennis (djolson@cherco.net), December 08, 1999.

Elaine, I know how disheartening it is to try to enlighten someone enough to get them to make some preparations. I have been working towards that goal for more than a year, and felt I would never be listened to. More than one person laughed at me, but I never had anyone get angry. Later all I wanted was for the members of my immediate family to make at least modest preparations as a contingency, even though they may have thought it was unnecessary. Very recently, I learned that most of them have made that decision, and I am so very thankful. I have found in most cases, no one wanted to listen to my views, and I had all but given up on it. Thank God some of them made what I feel was the right decision. Your friend, if she ever was indeed a friend, will regret her attitude soon, and perhaps the breach can be mended. It's not easy losing a good friend and we're all going to need each other in the end. At this time, you've done all you can for her, except praying. God bless you for caring enough to make the effort.

-- Jan. Miller (virginiadave@va.prestige.net), December 08, 1999.

Hi Elaine! I'm sorry to hear about the ugly situation between you and your friend. Its very sad, but you must understand that many otherwise good and decent folks think Y2K is a non-issue or a hoax...way beyond DGI...this is more like NTGIFP...nothing to get in the first place.

You can probably safely assume this woman and her companions will be knocking on your door if TSHTF. I will not sugggest how to handle them because everybody has different ideas about charity and helping those who chose not to prepare. My advice to you is to take care of yourself and your loved ones.

This story is another shining example of why I am against the concept of community when prepping for a calamity. The DGI crowd and their allies won't do a damn thing but scoff, be critical and antagonize... but guess who the first ones at the shelter, or knocking on your door???

I wish you the best of luck.

-- Irving (irvingf@myremarq.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine -- Sounds like she now realizes she made a mistake in not taking Y2K seriously before and in not preparing and is now frightened.

I don't "get" you religious folks -- for all the bleating about faith in God, God's will, God will provide, and heaven is going to be a better place than this "vale of tears" (whatever), where is your FAITH, and why the fear of death?

Or is it as I have said often, that religion is based on fear and hope, a desperate attempt to put out of mind the frightening reality that when you die, THAT'S IT!!!

-- A (A@AisA.com), December 08, 1999.

The poster who said you should stop talking about Y2K is absolutely right. You've done all you can, and to speak any more about it will simply put you and your family in danger. Your friend will most likely be dead in less than two months. There's nothing more you can do for her, so you must focus on your own preparations so that you and your family survive.

-- (its@coming.soon), December 08, 1999.

I too have spent time crying because some of my children won't listen. I've been a GI for two years now and have been on a very limited income. I am single with 4 daughters and 8 grandchildren (ages 3 to 8) who I love very much. I moved in with my mom who is on social security to help her and to help clear up my bills, and help my family. My mom was a get it right away, thank God. The two of us pooled our resources and tried to tell the family to prepare. It was an uphill battle all the way. One daughter got mad at me and wouldn't talk to me for 6 months. So much anger about the subject.

I've researched and researched ever since I heard about it. I was able to convince one daughter, married, (she has 3 little girls; and she has enough food for one year. One daughter, married, with two children will be staying in a not very good area. Her husband still doesn't quite get it and won't really prepare so I've tried to help her and the children with gifts (last year 25 lbs ABC soup for her birthday. I've collected enough for the 5 of them for three weeks. It was all I could afford with water containers, filters, food, etc. Another daughter and her three little boys don't really believe it. I sent them 4 binders worth of information last year and he passed it on to his mother and she has prepared for them. I only hope they don't close the roads to his moms house. But I have collect enough for them for one week. His mother has enough political power, and just got out of the military, high rank, to I hope get them through the lines if necessary. They won't leave for her house until New Year's Eve. My youngest, I've prepared enough for two weeks and at least convinced them to get out of the big city and go to his moms and take what I have provided them with.

The last two years have been extremely hard. We have sacraficed and gone without to help prepare the family. I've have been so tired and burnt out at times. Tried to give gift's the last two years associated with Y2K. Even gave fancy oil lamps, etc as wedding gifts to friends and people outside the family. A little worried about the schools not being ready so bought grandchilden leap frog books and inserts for Christmas. Also, I have a sister with 5 children, no child support we just sent three weeks worth for them. I've cried many nights wishing I could prepare more.

I've convinced my bother and he has a 4 sons, 1 daughter, two married, and they are prepared somewhat. Although he keeps saying he has friends in the police and fire department and they are not worried. I've repeatedly sent information to the Pastor of my church. Don't know if it has done any good, but cost me a little sending it certified (wanted to make sure he got it). I convinced another sister and her husband. That took over a year. I didn't give up. Got into some fights at times, cried a few times, but it was worth it.

My mom and I are leaving the city on the 18th of this month. We collected enough for 4 people for 1 year all dehydrated to help others. I only have enough for 3 weeks vacation then I have to be back at work or lose my retirement.

I'll never look at life the same again. Even if this is a non-event I'll be trying to become selfsufficient, try to help my children become self sufficient. I've broadened my learning curve. Two hours a days my mom listens to C-Span following congress, gives me a run down when I get home. I research on everything from EO, geology, world politicts, finances, history, etc.

I want to thank everyone for contributing information as it has helped me to make what I consider somewhat informed decisions concerning finances, preparing, etc. Finally got myself free from debt except lease on car.

I'm so thankful my sister lives so far out in the boonies I got lost for a year trying to find it and find my way home. My sister has always been self sufficient and even spins her own wool. She and her husband have tried to prepare a retreat for the family in case they all want to come. Could only convince the one daughter with three little girls to come.

Any information I've sent I've always tried to send both sides of opinion. That's why I've enjoyed this forum so much. Have had many a chuckle.

I work for a VERY HUGE corporation saw list of every piece of hardware and software for the company, hundreds of pages. Only about 5% testing done, the rest is vendor, or web site word for it that it is compliant.

God bless to all.

-- Emerald Green (Emerald.Green@Emerald.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine,

I recently saw the story (true) of the "Horse Whisperer". As a boy, the Whisperer would watch his father saddle-break horses using severe physical violence. Well, the Whisperer learned how to saddle-break them without violence. When the father saw the boy accomplish this feat, HE REACTED BY BEATING THE BOY WITH A CHAIN TO THE POINT OF HOSPITALIZATION.

The truth is this. The father's sense of reality was crushed and being given to violence reacted predictably.

Your church friend and ALL OTHERS will react, to various stimuli, in the way they are predisposed. Soon the masses will be forced to cope with fear. For some, this will mean insanity or inability to cope, for others violence, others fraud etc etc.

You are on the right track in Jesus Christ's mind. Bless and curse not them that abuse you. Do good to them that despise you. OBVIOUSLY THESE ARE THE WORDS OF GOD. These are not the natural responses of mortal man.

-- earl (ejrobill@pcpostal.com), December 08, 1999.

My wife and I were joking last night because she went to the supermarket and read a couple of the Celebrity Mags while waiting in line. Apparently, Winona Ryder is a doomer. I think she's the second worst actress in the history of cinema, but hell, if she can GI anyone can.

Other than this, I would have said what bw said.

-- nothere nothere (notherethere@hotmail.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine: I have stood in the doorway after services and worked feverishly... I have tried to push uphill to have her prep...

Friend: "All I have heard from you for a year is Y2K, Y2K, Y2K and nothing else. Can't you talk about anything else?"

Elaine- This is NOT a criticism of you and I am admittedly "reading between the lines" here, but do you think it may be possible that your friend "blew up" simply because she was tired of hearing about it from you? It sounds to me like you have been so focused on the subject that you may not realize you are continually bringing it up. In looking at the words you used to describe what you're doing..."worked feverishly", "tried to push [her]" ... I have to think it's at least possible you have gone "overboard" in her eyes. Obviously she is not as interested in the subject as you and this may be her way of telling you she's had enough.

You also wrote: "(I didn't tell her what she's talked about non- stop for the past year, because I was being gracious.)

This suggests to me that there is a subject your friend keeps bringing up and you find this somewhat irritating. Being "gracious" implies to me that you did not choose to "throw that in back her face". *Any* subject can become boring/irritating if you are not very interested in hearing about it week in and week out. Sounds to me that she just wasn't very gracious/tactful in telling you to stop.

I would also theorize that her extremely weak off-the-cuff "excuses" for not preparing would support what I have said.

Both you and those who have contributed to this thread think your unpleasant conversation with a friend was about Y2k. I feel Y2k was just "smoke" and the real "fire" was about something entirely different.

Just my 2 cents.

-- CD (not@here.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine,

So many wise and good responses to your experience are here already. I am not wise enough to add to what is expresssed so well by others here. It is a sad situation for you, which may or may not change - I wouldn't expect it to, myself. I have family members angry at me too; I did my best as long as I could and quit. I have 2 out of 4 grown kids who are prepping but not as seriously as I am - one of them because I visited him and did it for him.

During these last few months on the forum, while we have (mostly) all helped, advised and encouraged each other in our preparations, yours has been the voice I most admired and the persona I felt the most kinship with, but I have not done anywhere near what you have and I have been far more self-protective. I must agree with those who have warned you here, either kindly or irritably, to say no more and take no further risks. You have surely done beyond the call of duty already, and your own preps for yourself are not complete. It's time for your first responsibility to be to yourself. You don't come last, you come first.

I've gotten so run down by the last few weeks of frantic, unfinished preps for myself + family that I am home with pneumonia now. Don't risk your health at this late time, or endanger all of your hard work and effort any further. Let the woman go. Please say no more. I know we are Christians, but I don't believe we are called to be martyrs just yet.

God bless you & keep you safe.

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), December 08, 1999.

My technique: I tell them, once, that "No one knows what will happen. Maybe you should check into it yourself." Then I leave it at that. I did a harder sell to relatives, but not much. Human nature is the same no matter who tells'em.

Experience has taught me that people either take the hint or they don't. No diff to me, and I ain't gonna let them know what AIN'T their bizness, namely what's in my basement.

Cold hearted? Maybe. But this heart is still beating!

Kook

-- Y2Kook (Y2Kook@usa.net), December 08, 1999.

Elaine,

Sorry to hear this happened to you. If things are ok in a month or so, you can try to mend fences. Right now, I don't think you have the time or the energy to fight with her and do everything else you have to do.

I've had family tell me they didn't want to hear about it. I shut up. This past weekend I got a frantic phone call from a relative who made such fun of me that I literally stopped talking to him about it months ago. The conversation was bizzare, he kept urging me to GO to another state and convince HIS mother to prepare. Finally I reassured him that he could come to our house at any time he felt the need, and he calmed down. If nothing happens, he may tease me a little, but we both know the score.

If your friend is a true friend, she'll call you back and be more rational later.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), December 08, 1999.

Silence. Now more than ever. On this more than any other issue. Especially if you are vulnerable, with small children to protect. Silence.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), December 08, 1999.

Elaine,

Peace

Go here. It may help.

-- if you only knew (how@much.you are loved), December 08, 1999.

When I was 18 and working in San Francisco, there were characters that were human monuments on the street. One fellow wore an "Eat at Joes" type of sign and walked Market Street everyday. The sign on both sides read "The End of the World is Coming, Repent and be Saved." I never saw anyone stop and talk to him, yet every single day there he was walking up and down the street. Someone told me that he had been walking with that sign for over 25 years! We all would like to think that we can save the world but we know what the facts really are. That woman is not your friend and just because she is a member of your church does not make her what you think she should be. It's best that you keep to yourself and prepare quietly. When people become hungry and cold, they will drop their labels to survive, and I suspect she'll be showing up to your house when that time comes preying on your guilt.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 08, 1999.

"To make and keep friends, you must be a friend."

Platitudes like this may be sorely tested next year. We may be faced with questions like these:

Are "friends" bought with food and water really friends?

How many friends can I afford?

How far can I stretch my resources?

Have I water and food for 2 more people? 12 more people?

For how long?

Then what?

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), December 08, 1999.

Elaine,

God Bless you for trying and doing the best you can!

I have an aunt who acts quite a bit like your friend. I have to stand aside and let her go her own way, there's nothing I can do to help her, though if she asked for help, I'd do my best to try.

For your own sake, I believe that this is what you must do. There is nothing more you can do until after CDC. Until then, and afterwards, peace to you.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), December 08, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

If anyone asks, say you're now mostly optimistic that it won't be nearly as bad as you thought. Smile. Shrug. Bump in the road. Not to worry. No big deal. Your preps? Gave most of 'em away.

No, don't lie, if you can help it. I know you wouldn't do it, but others reading this thread might. Since you have been so open with your concern, you might seriously consider getting some of your preparations somehow hidden. Perhaps you could rent a storage locker nearby, or convince a friend to let you store some things at their house, temporarily.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 08, 1999.

Elaine,

Time is running out. The events leading up to and beyond Jan. 2000 will probabily do more to awaken people than we can now do crying..FIRE...

Your friend has been offended. Not that you are totally at fault for crying FIRE. Friendship means we interact with that person on their level seeking to place ourself in their shoes. If all she hears from you revolves around Y2K and nothing else of spiritual value, you fail to meet her need. We often need to stop and just listen to each others cry.

This is your friend. Then may I suggest you follow Christ's command and not let the sun set before you either call or visit to say "PLEASE forgive me for offending you". Make no excuses; watch a miracle happen!

-- Tommy Rogers (Been there@Just a Thought.com), December 08, 1999.

To all who have answered thus far, thank all of you with good intent and loving advice. To the very few with sarcasm, particularly against my faith, may God soften your hearts before the end of the year to know Him and to be helped through the crisis by your faith, as I am being helped through preps by mine. Let us not attack one another's faith in these last days of peace.

To explain a little bit further a couple of points, not for my sake, but for that of those who may still face such abusive reactions:

1. I meant by "pushing her uphill" that my other two couples from church with whom I am close GId immediately, and began their preps, and we've shared our ideas, pooled in the car to the Mennonite country store, shown one another how to do certain things with preps, and prayed together about Y2K and others. This one friend, with whom we've prayed for a big need of a family member at my instigation, and whom we have all loved, alone did not "get with it" and work on her preps, although she realized something would surely happen. We felt it was because she was in some stage of fear, denial, etc., and would come out of it. "Pushing her uphill" did not mean I was obnoxious to her: it meant I offered to take her to Costco on my card; offered her various "how to" materials I copied for her; offered her suggestions on how to save money. She chose to do nothing at all.

2. We have had a truly warm relationship, sharing a ministry I began of getting free review books from a publisher in DC and sharing them locally and around the world. We have talked about the deep things of our hearts over several years.

3. Someone suggested we go to dinner and not talk about Y2K. Indeed, we recently went to brunch after Sunday service, along with her mother. I never once mentioned Y2K that entire time.

4. Last evening the conversation began with her asking, "How are you and what are you doing?" to which I replied that I'd taken a vacation week in which to organize my house, and go to visit my aunt, who has been very ill in a nursing home, and that I'd fallen and hurt my leg badly and was doctoring it. THIS is what caused her tirade..."you aren't taking care of your leg if you're doing Y2K stuff...that's all you have talked about, etc."

5. I recognize it as fear as Y2K draws near, and my being the nearest and most logical person upon whom to take it out. But I also think it is guilt because she hasn't provided what she could for her family. And how about some old-fashioned jealousy of someone who is single-minded when confronted with a challenge and goes ahead and does something constructive about it, versus frittering away time and money in a time of crisis?

6. After all that screaming loudly and saying many more harsh things I didn't even write in the initial post for the sake of brevity and making the point that other forum readers may find such strangely hostile reactions now that the end of '99 is near, I am not the one who needs to call her and apologize for anything. The fact that I stayed on the phone as long as I did and was as gracious as I was, is enough. Boundaries are important, and I finally expressed my need to hang up. That took courage and an inner strength to do with someone who has been a highly valued friend.

Meanwhile, today I had a call from my aunt's pastor that she has taken a turn for the worse and is only expected to live a few more days. So I leave tomorrow morning early to drive 3-1/2 hours to her. I wanted to check in here before going to bed. Wish my printer were working...would love to print out these sharing, caring responses. Will do so when I can get it fixed. Blessings on you all.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), December 08, 1999.

Hi Elaine - I almost didn't want to post this cause you've gotten a ton of responses already.

It just may be that the wheat and the chaff are growing together until the harvest, and this(Y2K)is God's way of separating the wheat from the chaff.

You don't owe this woman a thing. But you DO have grandchildren who need you.

This woman typifies the type of people who helped get Jesus crucified: some of the very people He fed and healed were later payed enough to scream: "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!"

Now Jesus went through it because it was The Plan, but you also know that He was single and had no children depending on Him.

Your loyalty is not to this woman. Your loyalty is to the children who can't prepare for themselves. It would be a CRIME for that woman to come in and take food out of the mouths of your grandkids. That's TRUE selfishness, and it's NAUSEATING in an "adult". Nauseating. The past 35 years have spawned a generation of Brats that REFUSE to grow up and and be responsible for themselves. It's nauseating to me. It must be terrible to just grow OLD and never grow UP.

To slightly change an old song: "Kiss Her Goodbye."

Take care, Elaine.

-- Doorbaby (temple of my God@h.com), December 08, 1999.

What people don't understand they fear, What they fear, they hate... What they hate, they kill.

---Jimmy Hoffa

(On a bathroom wall in a union shop)

-- Peace Farmer (peacefarmer@thefarm.veg), December 08, 1999.