Twice, in the past four days, people of faith have told me it is sinful to worry. Their comments had nothing to do with Y2k, nor with the FEMA and Red Cross Y2k preparation guidelines.

Their comments had to do with allowing negative thinking to dominate one's mindset to such a degree that positive thoughts could not take root.

My question is this: If you are one who believes in a devine creative force, regardless of your religious pursuasion, be it Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or many of the other religions in the world, have you been told that negative thinking, as in worrying about that which you cannot control, is sinful?

If so, and you are educated enough to do so, would you please cite the source here? A passage in a religious text is what I'm after.

I think this may be an important question for anyone arriving at this forum so late in the game.

Thank you kindly in advance.

-- Same values as (Ruth Cleaver@TV.Land), December 05, 1999

Answers

I'm sorry, I don't have a specific source to cite, but I do find this a timely question for myself, as I have gotten to the point that, even though we are extensively prepared, the waiting is REALLY getting to me. BIG. I nearly had a panic attack in the grocery store the other day, for the first time in 9 years. I could cry at the drop of a hat, I couldn't relax at ALL yesterday. I turn to God in prayer and it helps IMMENSELY. I do NOT think it is a sin to worry, I think it is human nature. And worry has compelled me to do many positive things. At this late date, it is only paralyzing me, so I am praying a LOT. Just my .02.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 05, 1999.

Are you simply concerned about whether or not you are prepared sufficiently, etc? Worrying in itself is not a sin. I think people tend to equate worry with a lack of faith, but even Mary and Joseph were concerned when Jesus went to the temple for three days. Worry is a good stressor, and often helps motivate us into action. It would only be sinful if it was ALL you did. Normal worry is just that: worry. Even FEAR is not a sin. Even though God and Jesus tell us about 365 time in the scriptures to "fear not," if we are afraid, we are not sinning just because they told us not to. They didn't say "don't worry," in so many words. (Jesus reminded the disciples in the Sermon on the Mount that the birds were watched over by the Lord.) So, we are too. I would be worried about you if you WEREN'T worried!! The best thing to do is to simply take whatever is worrying you, and picture yourself placing it in God's lap. Then go away and leave it there, and let Him handle it. Every time you catch yourself stewing about it again, recall that you have already given it up. If you are a parent, then you have a right to worry about whether or not you have prepared well enough to give your family the best POSSIBLE advantage. We can only do so much, and worrying about what we CAN'T accomplish is fruitless. But not a sin.

-- Liz Pavek (lizpavek@hotmail.com), December 05, 1999.

Worry

-- (oldie@but.goodie), December 05, 1999.

Matthew 6:25-34......therefore I tell you do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valueable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tommorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, "What shall we eat?" or, " What shall we drink?" or, "What shall we wear?" For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But first seek his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enouth trouble of its own.

-- Ace (Ace@nospam.com), December 05, 1999.

Ace, who is prepped, prays daily for those who are not, and is NOT worried.

-- Ace (Ace@nospam.com), December 05, 1999.

Oh Someone PLEEZE, provide a link to the bible that tells of the Ant and the Grasshopper! I believe we are told to prepare, but not to worry about things bigger than us. I believe both! I am doing BOTH!

-- Believer (Churchfanhand@waving.com), December 05, 1999.

If there is reason to worry, there is something one can DO !

While being calm, poised, in communion with the Lord.

Worry, fortunately, is an implanted warning trigger. It's supposed to get ya off yer arse and moving to mitigate / overcome / make lemonaid out of the lemons life throws at you!

Destructive worry = procrastination.

Constructive worry = motivation and achievement.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 05, 1999.

Ruth,

I do not have much faith in religion, but I have faith in God. My advice would be to give up your religion and trust your soul, and you will have a lot less to worry about. There is no such thing as sin. That idea was created by religious leaders, along with all of the other ways they use fear to control you.

Via con Dios

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 05, 1999.

The Ant and the Grasshopper is not in the Bible. It's one of Aesop's fables.

Check out:

http://www.pacificnet.net/~johnr/cgi/aesop1.cgi? 1&TheAntandtheGrasshopper&&antgrass.ram

-- An (ant@adoomer.com), December 05, 1999.

Thank you kindly, preparing, Liz and Ace,

Your words were well thought out, and I hope there will be many more contributing to this thread from now until at least a few days after the New Year dawns.

I took special note of these words, "It would only be sinful if it was ALL you did."

It may be possible that so many on this forum do just that--day after day. That is what prompted my original question.

Blessings. Thank you again. I do hope more will contribute their answers to this question.

-- Same Values as (Ruth Cleaver@TV.land), December 05, 1999.

The story of the Ant is found in Proverbs:

(Prov 6:6) Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest.

-- Ants and Humans (revelations16@hotmail.com), December 05, 1999.

Clearly, the moral of the story of the Ant is to provide for herself when she could. Polly's would learn well from such ancient wisdom.

The bible itself is full of reasons not to worry, not the least is that God is yet still in control (believe it or not). As already quoted by a previous poster, worry is not to be a part of our daily lives. Knowledge and wisdom, yes, but once knowledge is gained, wisdom comes and with wisdom, action. You have clearly taken some action to help yourself, now let events transpire, as they must. Your worry will not change things one iota.

-- Ants and Humans (revelations16@hotmail.com), December 05, 1999.

Proverbs 6: 6-11....Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. How long will you lie there, you sluggard? When will you get up from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest--and poverty will come on you like a bandit and scarcity like an armed man.

-- Ace (Ace@nospam.com), December 05, 1999.

Dear Ruth,

Of course it ****IS NOT**** a sin to worry. Have you ANY IDEA what must have gone through The Christ's mind when he was in the Garden prior to His arrest??? I'm not a betting man, but I'd put up a weeks paycheck the HE was worried...

The Creator of the Universe has at once infinite Justice, but also INFINITE MERCY. Do what you can for your family and neighbor (Lord who is my neighbor?) and put the rest in His INFINITE MERCY.

-- RJ (LtPita@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

WOW...I'd forgotten about the ant...Hey Koski (Sluggard), HOW LONG?

-- Ace (Ace@nospam.com), December 05, 1999.

Eve Noah built and ark

-- Jamie (Jamie42861@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

Ruth,

Some persons will consider CS Lewis's definition of sin, which is anything which separates on from God. Some persons will see worry as a lack of faith. Some persons will see worry as a violation of the commandment of idolotry because during worry one is focused on his own woes more than praising God. I write this only to explain where some folks are coming from when they raise such criticisms.

I think given these strict interpretations it is easy for me to see why some will say as well that we are all sinners, and can do nothing but sin for as long as we remain in the flesh.

Given this, when someone raises this criticism against you, then they as well are sinning by their own definition because they are focusing more on their judgement of you rather than having faith that God alone will judge you. By submitting to their opinion of you, instead of recognizing that they cannot know the mind of God and how he works in your life, then perhaps they are committing idolotry. They are hlding their opinion of you over God's opinion of you.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 05, 1999.

Psalm 112.

-- not worried (calm@home.com), December 05, 1999.

But the point is this: If you have a sinking feeling in your stomach, and that is what controls your day to day existence, even though you have read much and prepared for potential Y2K disruptions--including terrorism, etc.--to the best of your ability, is it sinful to allow these thoughts of ultimate destruction to invade your minds?

What do our religions say about this? Please, I'm looking for quotes from important treatises written by those who came before us, i.e., the greatest men of faith

Thank you again.

-- (Ruth Cleaver@tv.land), December 05, 1999.

Mercy, Jesus forgave Mark or was it Matthew for having fear on the boat, Jesus slept peacefully. The seas started to toss and turn, and they were so afraid. Jesus awoke, and commanded the calm of the seas. Jesus does not denounce us for being fearful. He just says "Get A grip!"

-- Church Fan Hand Waving (tryingtogeta@grip.com), December 05, 1999.

For many, many years, when I'm doing my daily Bible reading,I've found that certain Scriptures seem to "pop" out at me at just the time I need them. I copy that one onto a 3x5 card and keep it where I can regularly read it. Soon, it becomes memorized. If I find myself getting uptight, I repeat it and it has a wonderful way of calming and comforting me at the moment. Here's my "Y2K Scripture:" "No need to panic over alarms or surprises, or predictions that doomsday's just aroung the corner; Because God will be right there with you; he'll keep you safe and sound." (Proverbs 3:25&26 The Message version) And yes, I am also prepared with several month's worth of supplies in keeping with the Bible's ant! Great granny Holly

-- Holly Allen (Holly3325@juno.com), December 05, 1999.

Allen, and he will go before you, huh? Sounds good 2me.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 05, 1999.

What good answers from all of you.

Please keep this thread going in the remaining weeks.

This might become the most important thread ever posted to this forum.

Peace be with you.

-- Ruth (Ruth Cleaver@TV.land), December 05, 1999.

Dear Same,

A don't worry verse-Phillipians 4:6

But if you cannot say you are included in-John 1:12

Then this-John 3:18

Which ought to bring you back to BIG worry because of this-Romans 3:23 And this-Romans 6:23

To fix worry permanently this-Romans 10:9&10

Because this-Romans 10:13

All because of this-John 3:16

There is just one "string attached". You must believe it enough to do more than just read it. You must ask for that Gift (Romans 10:13) believing God will keep His promise-Romans 10:13

Even Bill Clinton is loved by God. More amazing... so am I!

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), December 05, 1999.

Worry is human nature and it has nothing to do with our inner development or our faith. Sometimes we worry! That doesn't necessarily mean we are not surrendered to God's will... My friend is worried. Her biggest fear is that the electricity will go off any time now and she will be caught outside her high rise, unable to get home since she can't climb stairs. Yet, she is of a very unusual spiritual comnsciousness, so I can't see that worry is a sin. Worry is simply what the mind goes through...

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

But Mara, you miss the point of the original question.

Please read it again.

Thanks in advance.

-- (Ruth Cleaver@TV.Land), December 05, 1999.

I think you should take that question to Michael Hyatt's Christian- oriented Y2K board. Here's the link.

I think you'll get some great answers. You have to register as a user, but it's free, and you never get spammed by the site.

-- Dennis (djolson@cherco.net), December 05, 1999.

There are several questions that need to be answered at this late date. Is there "anything to worry about" in this issue of y2k? How do we deal with any issue that may threaten our security? Does preparing for anticipated events mean that we do not trust God?

I have accepted the fact that, although the Lord does appear to have greatly and richly blessed this country in the past, this blessing is not guaranteed to continue. Civilizations have risen and fallen throughout history. Many of them over things that seem much sillier than a pervasive shortsightedness in computer system planning. Godly people have suffered and died in every land in the world, for various reasons. God reserves the right to glorify himself and advance His cause by either our life or death. This is His choice, not mine or yours.

We as Americans have been trusting God to preserve an economic system, not ourselves directly. We have trusted that the grocery stores will continue to provide what we want and need when we want to shop for it. In a purely agrarian society the individual farmer would have this years food, next years food until the expected harvest, next year's seed, and the following year's seed in case of crop failure or blight. In addition, the wise farmers would have extra to cover unanticipated prolems and needs to share with others. The farmer trusted God to provide the increase. The farmer trusted God to protect his food, fuel and seed for more than a year while in his possession. Today's banks are afraid of all of us taking a weeks worth of money out. Some of today's emergency management people are telling us not to store a few weeks worth of canned and dry food in our homes because it might rot. I am trusting God to preserve my stores and my family. And if He allows any loss, I will still trust Him.

Taking action to prepare for a future need does not equal fear or worry. God told Noah to prepare. Noah trusted God, and prepared. We are to prepare the fields before building our house. If we do not take care of our own we are worse than an unbeliever. We are to count the cost of building a tower so that it is not left half finished. In the old testament we see many cases of Israel preparing for war with different peoples. Sometimes God used those preparations to save them. Sometimes God saved them without them lifting a weapon. Sometimes God let them suffer no matter how prepared they thought they were. Proverbs tells us that the house of the wise has oil and every good thing while the house of the fool is in want. Furthermore, the Bible tells us to always be prepared to give. Giving is impossible without having givable stuff in stock.

If I wake up in the morning and see a rattlesnake beside my bed I have several choices. I can trust God to keep me safe and step right next to it. (This is probably not a wise thing to do, but some people may be called to demonstrate radical faith.) I can pray for God to take the snake away. (He may, it is His choice.) I can cower in my bed and just quake with fear and worry that it might kill me or one of my family (like when the 3 year old runs in every morning). I can grab my best guess of a tool to use to remove the snake and trust God to bless the efforts with a good result for all. (This may be a gun, stick, knife, pillowcase, or phone to call someone more prepared than I.)

If I honestly believe that God may allow the current economic system to change, I should prepare to provide for my family. Not in hopeless fear and desperation, but trusting God to help me get good information on what may be needed, how I can help my family and others, and to provide security for me and mine. I must trust Him to preserve. I will work my buns off, fill my storehouse as best I can, fight to protect all that He has given me dominion over and responsibility for, and trust Him to bless my efforts in ways I can not even imagine. And if He decides that His will and purpose will be better served by our death, who am I to complain?

All things work together for good for his children, but when we sin there is no guarantee that it will work out for the best, just that He will use it for some good in spite of our failures. We are commanded to prepare and take care of our own. If we disobey, God will work it for good in spite of us (in life or death), but we may well have refused to accept His best.

-- tree (thetrees@bigfoot.com), December 05, 1999.

Sometimes I worry that I'll be thrown into the Lake of Fire with the devil and his angels.

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), December 05, 1999.

I think the following post (and thread) might be a good thing for everyone who responded on this forum to read.

It's from one of those who regularly posts in the "Polly camp" as it has been identified by others. You can access it by cutting and pasting the following URL:

http://stand77.com/wwwboard/board.html

This was written by a regular poster to that forum, known by the handle of "Dirt Road."

"At least in the Methodist church, and probably elsewhere, the current doctrine is that "sin" is anything that separates us from God. If we allow our fears to overwhelm our faith, to the point where we recoil from doing what we know to be right, yes that is sin.

"Think about all those who both call themselves Christian and threaten to kill anyone who comes to steal their food next year."

"Contrast this with Matt. 5:42 -- "Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." [And for those who would stress "ask" and "borrow," please read the entire passage from verse 38 to 48.]"

"A little later on, in Matt. 6:25-34, we come to the crux of this whole question. "...do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink.... Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.... So do not worry, saying 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?'... do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

"As stated above, Christians are specifically told not to worry -- rather, to seek God and God's will (and thus righteousness, which is basically following God's will). When we turn away from God and the tasks God appoints to us, for whatever reason, that is sin."

: -- Dirt Road

"Shelter, heat, water, and food. The rest are luxuries, and thank God for all of it."

(All of the above, HIS words, not mine.)

Peace.

-- Same values as (Ruth Cleaver@TV.Land), December 05, 1999.

Ruth:

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, make your requests be made known unto God." Now, the obvious implication is that if we prepare for danger, we are worrying. I don't believe that is so. I DO think that perhaps God wants some to prepare, and some not. The ones sent out to bear the Gospel were to take nothing with them. Noah, Joseph, the ant and wise virgins were told to prepare. Also, there is the verse about the one sensing danger not to go ahead. God prepares different servants in different ways. [And we shouldn't judge each other, except for people who call themselves Christians who specifically disobey God. (Adultery, stealing, killing, bearing false witness, etc.) Then we're not even supposed to eat with that person.] He'll get all of us through this, and I feel that we all, on both sides, can learn to love the person with an opposite view. God certainly didn't allow this to happen to emotionally divide people.

-- Connie iversen (hive@gte.net), December 05, 1999.

Eye openers.

This is a theological thread.

Please post your references. Continue on.

It may be of greater benefit than you know.

Blessings again, to all who have posted here, and those who have read these words.

-- Same values as (Ruth Cleaver@TV.Land), December 05, 1999.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000jFe

A question for the Christians who are preparing...

-- (peace@y'.all), December 05, 1999.

Proverbs 6:6-8

6: Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise; 7: which having no guide (chief), overseer, or ruler, 8: Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest. (Which everyone until this century did.)

Proverbs 30:24&25

24: There are four things which are little upon the earth, but they are exceeding wise: 25: The ants are apeople not strong, yet they prepare their meat in summer...

It is estimated that Solomon, who is credited with writing Proverbs, lived 973-933 B.C.

Aesop lived 620-560 B.C., if he lived at all. (There's some doubt.)

Many allegories actually have their beginnings in the Scriptures.

-- Connie Iversen (hive@gte.net), December 05, 1999.

And how are you today Mrs. Clever?

An interesting question you have here. One which I will have to look further into.

First, my understanding of sin at it's basic level is that sin is "missing the mark". The bullseye so to speak. The bullseye in this illustration would be perfection which God requires of us. We are to be perfect and since no one is, we all miss the bullseye and are therefore sinners.

How do we know we "miss the bullseye" (SIN). This is precisely why God gave us the 10 Commandments along with the rest of his instructions in the Bible, so that we will know when we miss the bullseye. Excellent to be obedient to them but no one is or has been or ever will be obedient to God at all times. The Commandments point out to us that we have "missed the bullseye"(SIN), that we can in no way be perfect in, of and by our own efforts and therefore we need Jesus Christ to ultimately save us from the punishment that is required when we sin. For missing the bullseye has its consequences. WHOA... way off your question, I know.

I cannot find anything that would directly indicate that worry is a sin or "missing the bullseye". ie: causing us not to be perfect

However, my gut feeling tells me that anything that causes us to be anxious or to worry about the physical things of the world could have sin as a root cause or it could be further defined as fear which is a whole nuther ballgame. (or something like that)

I will get back to you later on any further thoughts, findings or revelations. Right now I am worn from the days activities.

Sincerely,

Eddie Haskell

-- the Virginian (1@1.com), December 06, 1999.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

As God warned Joseph (Genesis 41} to prepare for the coming famine, I believe He has warned us to prepare for the coming crises. If we honestly try to know and do His will, He is faithful to provide for us. I don't believe that worry is a sin, but I believe that if you ask, God can give you a better way to use your mind.

-- grannyclampett (don'thave@clue.com), December 06, 1999.

Ruth,

My favorite saying from my grandmother who will be 89 years old in December is " Doing all you can, Stand fast in the love of God" My grandmother is in a nursing home 150 miles from me. I love her dearly however I know if things get so bad as to Martial Law being placed into effect I can't or rather will not be able to bring her home with me. My plan was to go and get her if things got to bad, but she needs the care of professionals and bringing her here to early could cause her serious health problems, all I have is my faith in GOD to see her through, if my worring about this is a sin I pray God will forgive me and give me the pease to get through, Please remember GOD IS LOVE...

-- Marli (can'tget@it.duh), December 06, 1999.

Mrs. Cleaver,

Don't forget to tell Ward to go easy on the Beaver tonight!

-- Lumpy (i@hate.beaver), December 06, 1999.

To all I have created, so that you may understand that We Are One, hear this,

You were told from your earliest days that youre bad. You accept that you were born in sin. Feeling guilty is a learned response. Youve been told to feel guilty about yourself for things you did before you could even do anything. You have been taught to feel shame for being less than perfect.

This alleged state of imperfection in which you are said to have come into this world is what your religionists have the gall to call original sin. And it is original sin-but not yours. It is the first sin to be perpetrated upon you by a world which knows nothing of God if it thinks that God would-or could-create anything imperfect.

Some of your religions have built up whole theologies around this misconception. And that is what it is, literally: a misconception. For anything I conceive-all that to which I give life-is perfect; a perfect reflection of perfection itself, made in the image and likeness of Me.

Yet, in order to justify the idea of a punitive God, your religions needed to create something for me to be angry about. So that even those people who lead exemplary lives somehow need to be saved. If they dont need to be saved from themselves, then they need to be saved from their own built-in imperfection. So (these religions say) youd better do something about all of this-and fast-or youll go straight to hell.

This, in the end, may do nothing to mollify a weird, vindictive, angry God, but it does give life to weird, vindictive, angry religions. Thus do religions perpetuate themselves. Thus does power remain concentrated in the hands of the few, rather than experienced through the hands of many.

Of course you choose constantly the lesser thought, the smaller idea, the tiniest concept of yourself and your power, to say nothing of Me and Mine. Youve been taught to.

-- God (Be@peace.as.One), December 06, 1999.

This is what you get for asking a question with religious overtones. Everyone has an answer, but of course it's the one they got from their parents or their clergy or from Grok from planet Zolak. Sorry, there is no sin. Poor choices, yes, but sin, no. Before all you holier than thou Bible beaters jump on me with your memorized verses ... hear this TRUTH ... MY God was never so STUPID as to create a being (Lucifer who became SATAN) that could kick His Ass for a moment ... sorry about yours. God is all.

-- SlickWillie (UBIGHICK@Yahoo.com), December 06, 1999.

gee Ruth, you sure should know better than to try to get spiritual advice from a bulletin board. :-)

oh and SLICK WILLIE, GOD didn't create satan to rebel. he actually created lucifer as the most wonderful and beautiful angel. lucifer however was given a free will, just as we have been given, and CHOSE to rebel. he wanted to be god himself. why would a loving, all powerful god create robots with no choice? the message of faith becomes much more powerful when you see how many chances and choices god gives to his creations and how far he lets rebellion run its course--before he defeats it. sounds like you are using your free will too to make god be anything you want him to be rather than what the bible says he is.

SO BACK TO WORRY-----

RUTH, i am sorry to see that your friends felt the need to "point out your sin". sounds rather legalistic to me. could it have been with regards to your "worrying" and "not trusting god" because you are preparing for y2k? and they are "trusting god" because they are not preparing? preparing isn't a sin, nor is not preparing. unless god tells you to do so and you choose not to. maybe god is telling them to prepare and they refuse to listen for one reason or another? maybe you are truly obsessing/overpreparing? always good to check in with yourself. we will all soon see.

i think worry is a SECONDARY kind of emotion. i think worry or fretting can arise out of the natural firsthand emotions of fear, jealousy, anger, etc. when we hang on to them or dwell on them for too long. god gave us those natural emotions; but we are supposed to deal appropriately with them. when we move into a state of worry, it means we have not dealt appropriately (according to god's way) with the firsthand emotions.

people don't look at sin as god does. i believe sin is less than god's perfect for us because he designed us to be perfect and to be able to have complete fellowship with one another and with him. (we all know about adam and how he has temporarily changed that for us.) some sins hurt us. some sins hurt others and even society as a whole. all sins hurt/offend god and hinder our ability to have a free flowing relationship with him.

when we let the natural emotion of fear grow into worry it means that: 1) we are focusing on the thing that is making us fearful rather than god and his power to protect or care for us, 2) we are doing something detrimental to our well being and health (christ said don't worry about tomorrow because the evil of today is sufficient) 3) we may make poor choices because of the worry versus trusting god 4) we are not glorifying god or serving as an example of his goodness/mercy/greatness.

the more we grow with god and know all of his attributes and character, the more we trust him and worry less. it is a lifelong process.

it is too hard to give you one or two bible verses about "not worrying". if you are attempting to respond to your "friends", there are examples in the bible that support both preparation (joseph, noah) and no preparation (disciples and jesus).

if you want verses on worrying, i would recommend you get a "bible promise book" which you can find in any christian book store. they organize verses by topics (e.g., worry). i also recommend you get steve farrar's "spiritual survival during the y2k crisis" and share it with them. wonderful resource.

-- tt (cuddluppy@nowhere.com), December 06, 1999.

The first & greatest lie ever told (from the snake to Eve) was that there is no sin, & that you can do whatever you like & still be god-like.

After all these years, some folks still believe that biggest of all lies.

As for your original question, Is worry a sin? I doubt it, but I think it's something we should try to do less rather than more. I tell myself: Prepare more, worry less. Also: Pray more, worry less.

-- well (hey@you.asked), December 06, 1999.

To - -"God" be@peace,etc.:

I wasn't brought up to believe I was bad - - just the opposite; and everything was good and getting better in the world. When I discovered at age 26 that this was not true, it was quite a shock. In my despair, I did turn to God, and accepted Christ as my savior. Now, I was brought up in a morally conservative home, but a politically liberal home - - (my dad was a Socialist.) I had to re- think everything I was taught, and discovered that God never fails and never lies, as exhibited in the Scriptures. People do. I've dug this out on my own, not been spoon-fed some pre-digested Gospel. You should try it! It's very satisfying. God is judgemental to those who rebel against Him, but he is loving, merciful and nurturing like the good parent He is, to those of us who take Him at His word. I hope that you and others who doubt His veracity will study the Scriptures and put Him to the test. I've discovered that even Christians do not often know what the Word of God says.

Another thing that came to mind was "the cities of refuge" in the Old Testament. Our Y2K compounds,(of which I am not fortunate enough to be involved in) could be compared.

-- Connie Iversen (hive@gte.net), December 06, 1999.

I was wrong about 'the cities of refuge' being comparable to Y2K compounds. That just popped into my head and I should have checked it out. The "cities of refuge" were set up for the specific purpose of protecting people who had ACCIDENTALLY killed someone, where they could get a fair trial. There were six such cities.

The Chistian's refuge is God.

Psalm 91:1-16, but especially the first two:

1: He that dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide (live) under the shadow of the Almighty. 2: I will say of the Lord: He is my refuge and my fortress, my God; in Him will I trust.

-- Connie Iversen (Hive@gte.net), December 06, 1999.

Ruth,

Much wisdom here and no real need to add to all that has been said. There are different kinds of 'worry' feelings, I think (feel). One must consider the depth of one's heart and what is there.

We are exhorted to "trust in the LORD with all of our hearts" and "lean not unto our own understanding", to "acknowledge HIM in all of our ways" and "He will guide our path" (all from the same proverb).

In how many ways do we not do this other than simple 'worry'? But it seems that 'worry' gets the lion's share of the attention :-)

As a whole person we must deal with this life. Alot of what we do and think and say is severely not consistent with what we hold as true (mentally/belief?). So there's alot of room for coming into a simple life and faith where our life and faith are one expression and consistent.

List the many words for 'worry' kinds of things. Make a very long list: anxioty, suspense, fear, despair, ... Then consider the extent to which these things are measured into the mix of our 'worry' feelings like a stew. Does this set of feelings propel you toward the mercy seat of Christ or does it propel you to run around and try to save your own neck by your own means? Not that preping is by default 'wrong'. Obviously not. But ultimately WHO? are you trusting with all your heart??? How does this translate into action and word. Can you go to bed without fear and with thanksgiving for receiving the blessings of that day??? Do these emotions block out our receiving instruction from God directly???

Life is full of ups and downs. One can not expect to be serene in perpetuity. Some how God meets us where we are and, if we yield to Him, will draw us closer to His heart. If at the end of the day we can say that we have taken one more step in responding to Him, then we can rest in His grace.

He wants the best for each of us, more so than we want it for ourselves. Best that we let Him have His way, rather than insisting on ours.

Yours, dit.

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), December 06, 1999.

>Subject: A question for people of faith: Is it a sin to worry? <

Answer: Did God ever blast somebody for worrying? I think not.

Rather he was down on the rebellious, idolators, oppressors of orphans & widows, thieves, liars, selfishness etc........

Tell your acquaintances to major on what is important. "They swallow a camel but strain out a fly." Remove the beam in your own eye before taking a sliver out of someone elses."

Also, GET INTO YOUR BIBLE BY YOURSELF. THE DECEPTION IS GOING TO GET REAL BAD FROM HERE ON IN.

-- earl (ejrobill@pcpostal.com), December 06, 1999.

"Make a very long list: anxioty, suspense, fear, despair, ... Then consider the extent to which these things are measured into the mix of our 'worry' feelings like a stew."

I'll make this easy for you... worry comes from fear.

There are 2 forms of spiritual energy within all that I have created, love and fear. Fear is necessary because it is the opposite of love. Without fear you would not know what love is would you? All emotions come from either love or fear.

I have given you free will so that you always may choose between love or fear. The choice is yours.

Ask yourself, about the source of your worry, was it really necessary to choose the pathway toward fear? If it is possible to choose the pathway of love, there will be no worry.

Connie,

What is a Chistian?

:-)

(God has a sense of humor too!)

-- God (Be@peace.with.Everything), December 06, 1999.

_- - To (Be@Peace, etc.:

A Christian is a follower of Christ, one who has accepted that Christ shed His blood to save ME from my sins; - - yes, that's what the Scriptures say - - SINS. If you don't accept up front that you've sinned, the Gospel isn't much help for you. I have put His word and Him to the test and He has never failed ME. Each person has to come to that place him/herself. Yes, I'm sure God must have a sense of humor; It's just there isn't a whole lot that is noticeable in the Scriptures. You need to go to TV or other forms of entertainment to find that. Now, I DO love a sense of humor, but God is serious when He deals with man.

There are many good responses on this question. Thanks, Ruth for posing (or posting) it!

Connie

-- Connie Iversen (hive@gte.net), December 06, 1999.

"A Christian is a follower of Christ, one who has accepted that Christ shed His blood to save ME from my sins; - - yes, that's what the Scriptures say"

Correction. Most of the New Testament writers never met or saw Jesus in their lives. They lived many years after Jesus left the Earth. They wouldn't have known Jesus of Nazareth if they walked into him on the street.

The Bible writers were great believers and great historians. They took the stories which had been passed down to them and to their friends by others--elders--from elder to elder, until finally a written record was made.

And not everything of the Bible authors was included in the final document.

Already "churches" had sprung up around the teachings of Jesus--and, as happens whenever and wherever people gather in groups around a powerful idea, there were certain individuals within these churches, or enclaves, who determined what parts of the Jesus Story were going to be told--and how. This process of selecting and editing continued throughout the gathering, writing, and publishing of the gospels, and the Bible.

Even severalcenturies after the original scriptures were commited to writing, a High Council of the Church determined yet one more time which doctrines and truths were to be included in the then-official Bible--and which would be "unhealthy" or "premature" to reveal to the masses.

The great teachers of your Christian religion know that Jesus was not perturbed by the crucifixion, but expected it. He could have walked away, but did not. He could have stopped the process at any point. He had that power. Yet he did not. He allowed himself to be crucified in order that he might stand as man's eternal salvation. Look, he said, at what I can do. Look at what istrue. And know that these things, and more, shall you also do. For have I not said, ye are gods? Yet you do not believe. If you cannot, then, believe in yourself, believe in me.

Such was Jesus' compassion that he begged for a way--and created it--to so impact the world that all might come to heaven (Self realization)--if in no other way, then through him. For he defeated misery, and death. And so might you.

The grandest teaching of Christ was not that you shall have everlasting life--but that you do; not that you shall have brotherhood in God, but that you do; not that you shall have whatever you request, but that you do.

All that is required is to know this. For you are the creator of reality, and life can show up no other way for you than that way in which you think it will.

You think into being. This is the first step in creation. God the Father is thought. Your thought is the parent which gives birth to all things.

-- God (Believe@in.YourSelf), December 06, 1999.

The Scripture writers spoke as eye-witnesses. There is no way to convince unbelievers, because Christianity is a matter of faith. Paul saw Jesus on the road to Damascus.

De-Bunkers in this century have tried to question the validity of the Scriptures, but the more that is discovered, the more it agrees with what it (the Bible) says about itself. But there is no sense arguing about it. The Holy Spirit's job is to enlighten the unbelievers.

My human understanding is flawed, but "His Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am His child."

-- Connie Iversen (hive@gte.net), December 06, 1999.

Only if your worry causes you to fear. Then you violate the command, "fear not."

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 06, 1999.

My Life's God, is Good. He sent me Angeles to guide me, whole life. People, who from, a past, from a person, who has had almost zilch personal friends for 20 years. This God, brought a "Past known face" into many situations, when I most needed it, and comforted me. I am "still in Wonder, and still a Sinner". For any "Big Gov-mit types, got no stupid generator, nor bombs on my small square.

-- Mercy All My Life (Sheesh@myGod.com), December 06, 1999.

Did Ruth begat June, or did June begat Ruth?

Lost my TV Guide.

-- flora (***@__._), December 06, 1999.

To 'be@peace,etc.' or is it 'believe in yourself'?

I'm sorry, but I would consider it blasphemy to call you 'God' - - there is One God, present in Three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I am sorry I didn't 'pick up' on your mentioning my typo. I had to get a new print cartridge and paper today, and when I printed out the thread, I noticed in my own post that I had made a typo, and then yours made sense. I had gone into that long explanation of what a 'Christian' is, not thinking 'Chistian'. What you noted WAS funny, because I had a proofreading course and hate to make a spelling error.

But concerning your signature - - I would never just believe in myself, at least not for eternal life! (I can be counted on to handle the everyday things in my life, though.) And I personally don't think you should, either. But, of course, that is between you and the True God! I harbor no ill will to you, 'be@peace', but Jesus did say that he came to bring a (figurative) sword, that would divide the world into believers and unbelievers, and that is exactly what he's done. Sometimes those separated ones are in one's own family, such as happened when I became a Christian (spell it right?) But I still love them just as much, but they think I'm a religious nut, which hurts.

I pray for them every day. Y2K has complicated matters, because most of them are DGIs, also. In fact, I think Y2K is a lot like the Gospel - - some people GI and some people DGI. This would be something for you to consider, also.

In Him,

Connie

-- Connie Iversen (hive@gte.net), December 06, 1999.

God is Everything, and We are part of The Everything that He created, part of All that ever Was, All that Is, and All that ever will Be. God is experiencing The Everything that He created through Us. He Lives through Us, and speaks through Us. Most of what I have posted here are His words directly from conversations with God, some parts are my words that God tells me through my soul to be Truth. I use the name of God because God is the source of this Truth, and because you would not have put much faith in these words if I had used the name of just another "sinner." Because of what you have been taught, you do not put much faith in words unless they are quoted directly from scriptures. But since you still think of God as only Him, I will no longer disturb you by using His name. However, I do have a few more words direct from Him, that you might like to consider...

---

"If there were such a thing as sin, this would be it: to allow yourself to become what you are because of the experience of others. This is the "sin" you have committed. All of you. You do not await your own experience, you accept the experience of others as gospel (literally), and then, when you encounter the actual experience for the first time, you overlay what you think you already know onto the encounter.

If you did not do this, you might have a wholly different experience--one that might render your original teacher or source wrong. In most cases, you don't want to make your parents, your schools, your religions, your traditions, your holy scriptures wrong--so you deny your own experience in favor of what you have been told to think."

---

Connie, you said...

"I would never just believe in myself"

I notice you added the word "just." That is not what I meant when I wrote "Believe in YourSelf." Because of your learnings you immediately reject the idea of believing in Self, and become concerned with others. But how can you believe in others if you do not believe in Yourself? When you believe in your True Self, you are believing in The God that Is in Everyone, not just yourself.

There is no need for worry, because God Is in All of Us. :-)

-- Part of God (We@All.Are), December 07, 1999.

- - Part of God

Yes, we are to LOVE others as we love ourselves, so I suppose that could be considered believing in oneself...

However, I do not say the things I say because of having been taught to say them, or think them... I say them because I find them in the Word of God (the Bible) and not because some human person taught me this. I came to a knowledge of Jesus Christ when I was 'born again' - - which people who just depend on their own intellect don't do. You know, that's why Lucifer was cast out of Heaven ... his pride, among the worst of sins ... Lucifer said: "I shall be like the Most High God," the most blashemous thing he could have said. We should be striving to be like God, but we're not there yet, and won't be, until we are transformed.

-- Connie Iversen (hive@gte.net), December 07, 1999.

I forgot tosay:

If we are all indwelled by God, then what about the ones who are indwelled with Satan? Some are the children of Satan - -he is the father of liars, for example. This is why it is easy to see that Bill Clinton is not a Christian, as he claims. "By their fruit you shall know them"... There are so many phony Christians and true believers get blamed for the activities of false ones.

In Christ, Connie

-- Connie Iversen (hive@gte.net), December 07, 1999.

"We should be striving to be like God, but we're not there yet, and won't be, until we are transformed."

Until we are transformed? What is this transformation you speak of?

When you bear a child is it not like you, even part of you in body and soul? How is it then that when God creates Children, they must wait for some "transformation" to be Part of Him?

Don't you see what you are doing? By your very thoughts and words you are not allowing yourself to be One with God! There is no "until." You are like God now, always have been, and always will be.

Did Jesus not say "ye are gods"? Why then do you choose not to believe Him, but to believe what others tell you instead?

-- Child of God (You.are.Part@of.All.that.Is), December 07, 1999.

My God, allows me strength. Where I had no-one, before. It is a very personal experience. I cannot go to the Roof-tops and proclaim "to Save the World". Sheesh, I am still trying to save self and family. That is all I can offer.

-- Material Girl (usedtohave@life.com), December 09, 1999.

Jesus Christ!

I fight my lustful instincts every time I see some sexy babe. I fight the urge to drink. I try my hardest to control my temper. I never kill anybody.

Now you tell me I gotta worry about worrying? Kiss my rosy red rectum, you fanatics!

Sam, worrying all the time about worrying

-- Sinner Sam (JUST@ANOTHER.SINNER), December 10, 1999.