I woke up early this morning and couldn't get back to sleep. I had a thought: Would the Pentagon consider a first strike against the other nuclear powers in the hours after they crash but before we hit the wall? Seems to me their retalitory capability would be severly disrupted. Might the Dr. Strangeloves of the U.S. missle system consider such a thought? If this were viable, I wouldn't put it past them to use this opprotunity. Randy Newman's song comes to mind: Boom! goes London, Boom! Parie. More rice for you, more beans for me...

-- Robertis Paranoid (psycho@wearedoomed.com), December 05, 1999

Answers

If they crash, why would we need to nuke them? Just to increase the aid we'd be sending? Or do you mean to prevent them from retaliating against us for selling some flawed systems?

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 05, 1999.

I vote for this as stooopidest thread of 1999.

-- Y2KGardener (govegan@aloha.net), December 05, 1999.

Ya got my vote too. There is some pretty stiff competition out there though !

-- Rob (maxovrdrv51@hotmail.com), December 05, 1999.

Sure! let's Nuke em! Why not?? I Always wanted to see if them Tridents would work.

-- Alfred E (What@MeWorry.com), December 05, 1999.

Okaaay! I didn't think it was a good idea myself, just that those folks that build and polish missles all day long might think it was. I don't believe the command/control is as certain as we might think. Remember the movie? Dr. Strangelove? Some factions might think that this was the best way to take 'em out for good! Not just watch 'em struggle with Y2K difficulties, but bomb all other nuclear contenders back into the stone age save one, ourselves. Now, admittedly, this would be stupid but, why not? The minds that reside within the nuclear preisthood are not sane. Who knows what they might advise? Hell, maybe it's good idea after all! Love and Peace, Robert

-- Robertis Paranoid (psycho@wearedoomed.com), December 05, 1999.

Whatever makes you think they'd wait to go down and not nuke us first just in case? I'd say these next few days the world is a tinder box and USA is #1 target. Now who's gonna do it first?

-- Farmgirl (another@theweb.net), December 05, 1999.

Have you considered that Russia and China might try the same thing before they lose their capability?

-- Jim Hawk (Hawk@eye.sky), December 05, 1999.

If international tensions were higher, I don't doubt that this would be a bar discussion item at the Officer's Club at SAC HQ. But as we travel forward just three weks before Y2K, things are a lot quieter than I could ever guess one year ago.

One year ago I think many of us foresaw lots of sabers being rattled by this time of year. China and Taiwan, North and South Korea, India and Pakistan, Indonesia and Australia, Iraq and its neighbors or Isreal and its neighbors were some of the potential hotspots which were expected. And global conflict between the US and China and /or Russia were not out of the question.

Instead it's awfully quite out there. Sure hope it stays that way.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), December 05, 1999.

Robertis: Dr. Strangelove was pure entertainment and FICTION.Nuclear priesthood?? I was trained to drop them and they scared the hell out of me. The likelihood of a nutcase being able to launch any nuclear weapon on their own is about as likely as Invar turning liberal, Flint becoming a Minnesota Smith, KOS taking a bath with pure water etc etc.

-- Neil G.Lewis (pnglewis1@yahoo.com), December 05, 1999.

Take my word for it the Tridents work. They don't need tested and certainly not used without someone else firing first.

Get professional help soon.

-- squid (Itsdark@down.here), December 05, 1999.

Neil G Lewis Bastard! Shame on you! What the hell were you doing? I'd rather go to the brig than let someone train me to drop bombs on people. You had every right to be scared- For your SOUL! Furthermore: I've known people just like you. They were trained to arm nukes too. They would be the last to know what the hell was going on. Technical flunkies, really. Yes, unlikely that any one person could launch an attack but a first strike might be in-the-works all the same. Our economy will be wrecked anyway. Why not start over, King-of-the-Hill? And yes, China and Russia could pull a fast one too. Who jumps who first? I say we better get on it before charlie reads this post! love and guns Robert

-- Robertis Paranoid (psycho@wearedoomed.com), December 05, 1999.

MAYBE, someone just fuxs-up, and, like, goodbye baby. GONE-BABY-GONE. No one left to add it to the 1999 list of Darwin canadates. I think nuke bombs are about the most stupid thing ever invented. Now, how many have we built? 10,000, or was that 70,000? And people call me stupid... lov and hate it's all the same when we're all walkin' 'round the nuclear drain. Robert

-- Robertis Paranoid (psycho@wearedoomed.com), December 05, 1999.

Farmgirl: Do you like to mudwrestle?

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), December 05, 1999.

Robertis: Easy son! Someone had to protect you while you were in diapers. It must be nice to have lived all your life in the USA and hid your head in the sand about the rest of the world out there. You don't mean that you actually think the other countries of the world give a damn about us do you? You need to take a good dose of reality if you think our good intentions is what kept the Russian bear at bay!

-- Neil G.Lewis (pnglewis1@yahoo.com), December 05, 1999.

Hey o, Neil. I was a nuke tropper too. Not city blasters but 20KT is still a nice bang. I don't think anyone anywhere has tried a live ICBM. I don't think anyone has even launched anything North bound over the pole. We launch Spy and weather south bound from California and Comm sats and others Southwest out of Florida.

We are the only thing proping the rest of the world up. If the other systems are so good, how come they have to buy their daily bread from us?

There are currently over 30 wars in progress around the globe. NOTE: the Associated Press counts it a WAR, if more than 1000 people per year are getting killed in non-crime related violence.

I don't think the NWO has a chance. Sure we could be destroyed, but where is the profit in that?

-- IFC (nike@sam.mil), December 05, 1999.

IFC: There are no winners in a nuclear exchange. IMO, our fear should not be from the Russians but from their surrogates with the little suit case bombs. How would we stop them from entering the US and exploding one of these weapons(or a chem or biologic?)? Glad I don't have to do the research, analysis and planning on that one!

-- Neil G.Lewis (pnglewis1@yahoo.com), December 05, 1999.

Mr Paranoid-Not a great joke, if indeed it was one.I personally have family in 2 of the above named countries. I am sure there are many millions of others in the U.S. that have family in the other named countries. And unless you are a Native American, it is a sure bet your family came from somewhere else in this small world. Being a citizen of this country does not make us superior, or give us the right to act with senseless aggression. You need to get a grip. We are all in this together.

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), December 05, 1999.

Beam me up Scotty. Ther's no sign of intelligent life here!

-- Mary Kay (celticuty@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

Bring on nuclear winter? I don't think so.

Besides, I can't think of any good reason why we should nuke England or France. Well, maybe France...

Tick... Tock... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), December 05, 1999.

I vote for a backpack nuke at the UN building during a full session.

Duke Nukem

-- Duke Nukem (DukeNukem@UN.org), December 06, 1999.

It seeems to me that the real risk here is not would the US do it, but will the Russians/Chines BELIEVE we will do it?

Imagine if the world turned the other way and WE were likely to be disrupted and/or blind for 12 hours? What would we do then?

-- Lewis (aslanshow@yahoo.com), December 06, 1999.

HEY! Neil, you're a real cold war hero! I'm sorry, I didn't suspect. If you want to spin some cold war mythology about keeping the U.S. and the little women and kiddies in diapers safe from the "bear", go right ahead. My guess is you want to justify your small participation in that big evil called the cold war. Why don't you come out and say "I was just following orders." Tell it to jesus and saint what's-his-face on jugment day. I ain't buying it!

Truth told, the Russians wouldn't have pursued a nuclear program if it wasn't for the pressure we applied in our side of the nuclear arms race. Russia's communist economy's basic structure could not and did not keep up with our military/industrial complex and its expenditures that taxed the american people into a fiscul black hole. (In more ways than one: the legacy of the cold war also include expensive future clean-up at these sites: Hanford, Nevada Test Site, Savanna River, Rocky Flats, Bikini, TMI, etc.)

Toe-to-toe, it was the U.S. that upped the ante every step of the way during the nuclear arms race. If we didn't pursue and build the H- Bomb, the russians would never have. The top russian scientist said that they had no interest to develope their own H-bomb program because it would be too expensive. They understood, like our scientist, that it was theoreticly possible but too expensive. Only after our successful test at Bikini did the Russians go forward to develope their own H-Bomb. Although expensive for them, they felt they had no choice. The same goes for the ICBM program, nuke submarines, etc.

The only concession I can make is to the former Soviet biological program during the 80's and early 90's.

You see, the Russians love their country at least as much as you love yours. Maybe more. It has be this country that, by-and-large, has be the international aggressor, bully, and formost imperialist during the last 50 years.

The only winners of the cold war were those few families and the ultra special interests that profited in the slight of hand that is refered to as the Military/Industrial Complex. Eisenhower was right after all.

God help us all, Robert

-- Robertis Paranoid (psycho@wearedoomed.com), December 06, 1999.

Robertis: Suggest you change citizenship to Russia. Someday you may get outside the US and see the world the way it actually is instead of thru rose colored glasses. This is not to say that we don't have things that need correcting here. Big government and businesses are the same worldwide. Their only concern is for the almighty dollar without regard to far-term consequences. Just as a matter of curiosity what have you done for your country in terms of service?

-- Neil G.Lewis (pnglewis1@yahoo.com), December 06, 1999.

Niel G. Lewis,

What have I done in service for my country (OUR country)?

Educate, agitate, demonstrate.

Sincerely, Robertis P.S. Oh, and shall I also mention, pay taxes?

-- Robertis Paranoid (psycho@wearedoomed.com), December 07, 1999.

Robertis: You have every right as an American citizen to be a Communist or anything else you want to be within the laws of this country. That can not be said in most other countries of the world. Fifty-eight years ago today young Americans had to lay down their lives so that people like you and I could have this conversation. Being part of the military does not necessarily make one a war monger. Most of the men and women I served with had as diverse a back ground as you and I with political ideas that covered the spectrum. But one thing we always agreed on was Churchill's dictum on Democracy not being perfect but all the rest were so much worse. Let us agree to disagree and remain civil.

-- Neil G.Lewis (pnglewis1@yahoo.com), December 07, 1999.

Neil, I agree. Let's bury the hatchet. The best to you and yours over this holiday season. I hope you make it after we hit the wall. We'll need each other. love and peace

-- Robertis Paranoid (psycho@wearedoomed.com), December 12, 1999.