A must read from Roleigh Martin

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Sat, 04 Dec 1999 23:15:52 -0600 From: Roleigh Martin To: roleigh_for_web@egroups.com

>X-From_: wncy2k@nccn.net Sat Dec 4 21:03 CST 1999 >X-Sender: sacrtour@pop3.nccn.net >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) >Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 19:04:54 -0800 >To: y2kprepare@onelist.com >From: Sheri Nakken >Subject: A Serious Y2K Message -- ( this is worth reading ) > > >From John Nightingale.... >I think it may well have more validity than other Y2K messages. Of >course, I have noticed on the business pages both the actions by the oil >countries, and the non-delivery of Halloween candies by Hershey. I do not >wish to be living in "interesting times," but I gather I have no choice. > >Subj: Y2K > >Walt Patrick is Founder and President of the Windward Foundation -- a >non-profit educational organization that studies and practices >self-sufficiency in an increasingly urbanized environment. He gives good >thought. > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:23:07 -0800 >From: Walt Patrick > >For what it's worth, I don't see Y2K getting serious until late in >January. The economy is a marvelous thing with lots of momentum, and like >a bull elephant in charge mode, just shooting out its heart won't bring >it to an immediate halt. > >Setting aside the wild-card possibilities, I don't see any way that the >oil distribution / refining system isn't going to experience substantial >shortfalls. The modern lifestyle is based on cheap, regular and adequate >supplies of gasoline. Given that the oil crisis of '73 only represented a >7% actual shortfall in supply, I'm expecting serious disruptions to start >showing up in the later half of January. > >Given our dependence on foreign oil from Venezuela and Saudi Arabia, >automotive parts from Mexico and Brazil, our involvement with Japanese >banks, etc., I was particularly impressed by the testimony two months ago >of Jacqueline Williams-Bridgers, the U.S. State Department's Inspector >General, to the U.S. Senate's special committee on Y2K. > >She said, "These assessments suggest that the global community is likely >to experience varying degrees of Y2K-related failures in every sector, in >every region, and at every economic level. As such, the risk of >disruption will likely extend to the international trade arena, where a >breakdown in any part of the global supply chain would have a serious >impact on the U.S. and world economies." > >My question for those who feel that Y2K will only be a bump in the road >would be, "Which part of _every_ is unclear?" > >Given the current level of dependency on automobiles in our culture, we >can't afford more than a percent or two disruption in overall gasoline >availability without triggering adverse social reactions (those who were >around in '73 know what I mean). The odds that the interuption in >gasoline availability will be no more than a couple of percent isn't very >good. > >We'll know one of the key factors quickly enough. The railroads have >announced that they're shutting down for 36 hours during the rollover in >order to test their systems. If the imbedded chips in the switching >system make it through, then I expect that we're going to be in decent >shape overall. > >If, however, we effectively loose the rail system because they can't >trust the switching/reporting network, then the dominos are really going >to fall. The majority of the electric plants out there use coal, and they >only have room to stock about a week's supply. > >How people will react in late January is a real guess. If they start >hurting, they're going to want to blame someone for that hurt. That's the >part that makes me nervous. > >It's interesting to watch the dominos starting to fall already: Hershey, >Midland, Volkswagen. Half a billion in losses in those three companies >alone in the last month is telling, but it's the nature of the losses >that's most illuminating. > >A couple of years back, as IT managers started to look seriously at Y2K, >they had two choices: fix the old or create the new. Many a company made >the reasonable decision to start from scratch and recode every critical >system they had. Some like Boeng spent more than a million dollars, and >it looks like they're in the clear. That isn't surprising given the >nature of their business and their capacity for taking on complicated >technical projects that have to be completed on deadline. > >Still, they had some interesting surprises. Like the test on the 757. >They rolled the clock forward, and then went looking for problems. Two >hours of checking didn't turn up anything, so the plane started to taxi >to the runway. Half-way there, the computer shut down. It turns out that >the bug had caused the computer's cooling fan to fail to come on. After >running for two hours without a fan, the computer overheated and shut >down. > >Lots of other companies also took the second path. While this plan has a >great potential payoff, i.e. the latest software running on the latest >machines, there is one really big risk. If the software isn't completed >on time, a situation known to occur on occassion :-), the company can >find itself caught between an old system that will no longer work after >the first of the year, and a new system that won't work yet. > >Even worse, in trying to make the transition, they can corrupt their data >base and be left with the added task of having to do a new physical >inventory. > >This is the sort of thing that's starting to show up. It's not being >talked about on the evening Happy News, but that's hardly surprising. For >example, Hersey's Y2K program just cost them their largest sales weekend >of the year. You may not have noticed, but Hersey didn't make it for >Halloween this year, and probably won't make it for Christmas. Lost sales >are said to be in the $100M range. > >Now, it's true that western civilization won't grind to a halt because of >a lack of chocolate, but it's also true that there are a lot of human >faces in pain disguised by a figure like that. The loss of one >end-product manufacturer involves losses for the business that supply >them, as well as the businesses which depend on their employee's >paychecks. > >Midland (I may have then name a bit off; I'm doing this from memory) is >an example of a good idea that didn't quite work. Their business consists >of distributing and vending food products. Their distributing software >was way old, but the vending side of their business was more up-to-date. >And so they decided to expand the vending software to include their >distribution operations. > >In practice, they discovered a few glitches. For example, their >distributing division used the term "each" to describe a case of >something, while their vending side thought "each" meant one unit. The >result is that some folks who ordered a case of something got one bottle, >while others who wanted a bottle received a case. > >That lead to a host of unhappy customers, and a lot of time lost filling >out return slips and processing additional shipments, but the real >problem is that this fubar has rendered their inventory records >worthless. Not only do they have to correct the software problem, but now >they also have to rebuild their inventory records based on physical >counts. > >The upshot is that their latest 10-Q is projecting a 25% drop in profits >for fiscal '99, word of which lead to a one day drop of $112M in the >value of their stock. > >Volkswagen Europe is another example of a company that took the second >path. Fortunately, they finished their new software with two months to >spare. The problem is that it takes a lot more than two months to test >complex software, and to save time, they passed up the step of operating >the old and new systems in parallel. The upshot there is that the new >software corrupted their old database, and they haven't been able to ship >parts for the last two weeks. > >The best description I've heard recently is the comparison to Christmas >tree lights; not the old series kind where the burning out of one bulb >would shut down the string, Rather, it's more like the new kind that have >a by-pass circuit in the base so that if a filament fails, the base >shorts out to let the power keep flowing. The problem there is that the >rest of the bulbs then have to deal with the fractionally higher voltage. >As more filaments fail, the rest of the filaments have to carry the load, >and tend to burn out correspondingly more quickly. In time, this leads to >a cascading failure of all the lights left in the string. > >While none of these examples puts the world at risk, each of them does >put a bunch of people through a whole lot of grief. As light after light >on the productivity tree winks out, the tension level rises. > >And then we get to the IRS's assurance that they have their contingency >plan in place. They expect to be able to issue 10,000 refund checks by >hand per day. Given that last year they issued some 80 million checks, >that should only take them some 36 years working at that rate. Faster if >they authorize overtime :-) > >How are people going to react if they're told to not expect their tax >refund in this lifetime? > >Anyway, just some thoughts on a rainy morning. It's going to be a very >interesting year. > >Take care old friend, and do stay in touch. > >Walt >

-- Kings Kid (beprepared@y2k.net), December 05, 1999

Answers

That actually is from Palmer Tildent to John Nightingale to Me to Roleigh and here is a better formatted version...

An interesting bit of info we should look at.

John Nightingale....

I think it may well have more validity than other Y2K messages. Of course, I have noticed on the business pages both the actions by the oil countries, and the non-delivery of Halloween candies by Hershey. I do not wish to be living in "interesting times," but I gather I have no choice.

Subj: Y2K

Walt Patrick is Founder and President of the Windward Foundation -- a non-profit educational organization that studies and practices self-sufficiency in an increasingly urbanized environment. He gives good thought.

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:23:07 -0800 From: Walt Patrick

For what it's worth, I don't see Y2K getting serious until late in January. The economy is a marvelous thing with lots of momentum, and like a bull elephant in charge mode, just shooting out its heart won't bring it to an immediate halt.

Setting aside the wild-card possibilities, I don't see any way that the oil distribution / refining system isn't going to experience substantial shortfalls. The modern lifestyle is based on cheap, regular and adequate supplies of gasoline. Given that the oil crisis of '73 only represented a 7% actual shortfall in supply, I'm expecting serious disruptions to start showing up in the later half of January.

Given our dependence on foreign oil from Venezuela and Saudi Arabia, automotive parts from Mexico and Brazil, our involvement with Japanese banks, etc., I was particularly impressed by the testimony two months ago of Jacqueline Williams-Bridgers, the U.S. State Department's Inspector General, to the U.S. Senate's special committee on Y2K.

She said, "These assessments suggest that the global community is likely to experience varying degrees of Y2K-related failures in every sector, in every region, and at every economic level. As such, the risk of disruption will likely extend to the international trade arena, where a breakdown in any part of the global supply chain would have a serious impact on the U.S. and world economies."

My question for those who feel that Y2K will only be a bump in the road would be, "Which part of _every_ is unclear?"

Given the current level of dependency on automobiles in our culture, we can't afford more than a percent or two disruption in overall gasoline availability without triggering adverse social reactions (those who were around in '73 know what I mean). The odds that the interuption in gasoline availability will be no more than a couple of percent isn't very good.

We'll know one of the key factors quickly enough. The railroads have announced that they're shutting down for 36 hours during the rollover in order to test their systems. If the imbedded chips in the switching system make it through, then I expect that we're going to be in decent shape overall.

If, however, we effectively loose the rail system because they can't trust the switching/reporting network, then the dominos are really going to fall. The majority of the electric plants out there use coal, and they only have room to stock about a week's supply.

How people will react in late January is a real guess. If they start hurting, they're going to want to blame someone for that hurt. That's the part that makes me nervous.

It's interesting to watch the dominos starting to fall already: Hershey, Midland, Volkswagen. Half a billion in losses in those three companies alone in the last month is telling, but it's the nature of the losses that's most illuminating.

A couple of years back, as IT managers started to look seriously at Y2K, they had two choices: fix the old or create the new. Many a company made the reasonable decision to start from scratch and recode every critical system they had. Some like Boeng spent more than a million dollars, and it looks like they're in the clear. That isn't surprising given the nature of their business and their capacity for taking on complicated technical projects that have to be completed on deadline.

Still, they had some interesting surprises. Like the test on the 757. They rolled the clock forward, and then went looking for problems. Two hours of checking didn't turn up anything, so the plane started to taxi to the runway. Half-way there, the computer shut down. It turns out that the bug had caused the computer's cooling fan to fail to come on. After running for two hours without a fan, the computer overheated and shut down.

Lots of other companies also took the second path. While this plan has a great potential payoff, i.e. the latest software running on the latest machines, there is one really big risk. If the software isn't completed on time, a situation known to occur on occassion :-), the company can find itself caught between an old system that will no longer work after the first of the year, and a new system that won't work yet.

Even worse, in trying to make the transition, they can corrupt their data base and be left with the added task of having to do a new physical inventory.

This is the sort of thing that's starting to show up. It's not being talked about on the evening Happy News, but that's hardly surprising. For example, Hersey's Y2K program just cost them their largest sales weekend of the year. You may not have noticed, but Hersey didn't make it for Halloween this year, and probably won't make it for Christmas. Lost sales are said to be in the $100M range.

Now, it's true that western civilization won't grind to a halt because of a lack of chocolate, but it's also true that there are a lot of human faces in pain disguised by a figure like that. The loss of one end-product manufacturer involves losses for the business that supply them, as well as the businesses which depend on their employee's paychecks.

Midland (I may have then name a bit off; I'm doing this from memory) is an example of a good idea that didn't quite work. Their business consists of distributing and vending food products. Their distributing software was way old, but the vending side of their business was more up-to-date. And so they decided to expand the vending software to include their distribution operations.

In practice, they discovered a few glitches. For example, their distributing division used the term "each" to describe a case of something, while their vending side thought "each" meant one unit. The result is that some folks who ordered a case of something got one bottle, while others who wanted a bottle received a case.

That lead to a host of unhappy customers, and a lot of time lost filling out return slips and processing additional shipments, but the real problem is that this fubar has rendered their inventory records worthless. Not only do they have to correct the software problem, but now they also have to rebuild their inventory records based on physical counts.

The upshot is that their latest 10-Q is projecting a 25% drop in profits for fiscal '99, word of which lead to a one day drop of $112M in the value of their stock.

Volkswagen Europe is another example of a company that took the second path. Fortunately, they finished their new software with two months to spare. The problem is that it takes a lot more than two months to test complex software, and to save time, they passed up the step of operating the old and new systems in parallel. The upshot there is that the new software corrupted their old database, and they haven't been able to ship parts for the last two weeks.

The best description I've heard recently is the comparison to Christmas tree lights; not the old series kind where the burning out of one bulb would shut down the string, Rather, it's more like the new kind that have a by-pass circuit in the base so that if a filament fails, the base shorts out to let the power keep flowing. The problem there is that the rest of the bulbs then have to deal with the fractionally higher voltage. As more filaments fail, the rest of the filaments have to carry the load, and tend to burn out correspondingly more quickly. In time, this leads to a cascading failure of all the lights left in the string.

While none of these examples puts the world at risk, each of them does put a bunch of people through a whole lot of grief. As light after light on the productivity tree winks out, the tension level rises.

And then we get to the IRS's assurance that they have their contingency plan in place. They expect to be able to issue 10,000 refund checks by hand per day. Given that last year they issued some 80 million checks, that should only take them some 36 years working at that rate. Faster if they authorize overtime :-)

How are people going to react if they're told to not expect their tax refund in this lifetime?

Anyway, just some thoughts on a rainy morning. It's going to be a very interesting year.

Take care old friend, and do stay in touch.

Walt

-- Sheri (wncy2k@nccn.net), December 05, 1999.


This is a great analysis. The main points I got from it are:

1) Watch the railroads. If after the first of the year they don't work, we are in deep trouble. They deliver the coal to the electrical plants.

2) Watch for a serious gas shortage to develop toward the end of January. It doesn't take much of a shortage to put us in jeopardy.

3. The IRS is toast.

-- nothing (better@to.do), December 05, 1999.


The worst case "doom & gloom" scenarios have always been based on the premise that the world is overwhelmed with a tremendous number of problems that will all occur within the space of a very small amount of time (e.g., Infomagic's "Charlotte's Web", where lots of "strands" snap at once). If, indeed, the problems will end up surfacing over a longer period of time, it seems to me like they may end up being manageable, even if at heavy (mainly economic) penalty.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), December 05, 1999.

Good summary, stuff that's been debated + tossed about here. Homer Beanfang's threads show a whole heck of a lot more happening than anybody includes in their summaries, Cory Hamasaki included.

This Forum has the most comprehensive hashing of every reported Y2K problem. Makes for rivetting reading.

Thank God the long wait will soon be over. Even though we'll know all too well how precious these last few years were, at least the shizoidofrenetic tension will mutate into frantic FOF.

And the Polly-Trolls will be outta the scene!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 05, 1999.


KOS,

Yup.

Jerry

-- Jerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), December 05, 1999.



Sheri,

The story below is interesting and one I haven't seen before. This appears to contradict Boeings statements (see below). I would like to be able to determine if this story is valid, can you perhaps get your contact to cite his source?

Many a company made the reasonable decision to start from scratch and recode every critical system they had. Some like Boeng spent more than a million dollars, and it looks like they're in the clear. That isn't surprising given the nature of their business and their capacity for taking on complicated technical projects that have to be completed on deadline.

Still, they had some interesting surprises. Like the test on the 757. They rolled the clock forward, and then went looking for problems. Two hours of checking didn't turn up anything, so the plane started to taxi to the runway. Half-way there, the computer shut down. It turns out that the bug had caused the computer's cooling fan to fail to come on. After running for two hours without a fan, the computer overheated and shut down.

-------------------- http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/aboutus/y2k/y2kcommercial.html

"Boeing airplanes are Year 2000-ready and will fly safely into the next century" Alan Mulally, president, Boeing Commercial Airplanes

Commercial Airplanes and the Year 2000 ---------------- Boeing successfully completed Year 2000 (Y2K) flight demonstrations of its commercial airplanes on April 16, 1999, reconfirming earlier laboratory and simulation studies that showed there are no safety of flight issues related to the Y2K date rollover.

An earlier Boeing assessment showed that only three equipment items were sensitive to the Year 2000 date on some Boeing airplanes, but none affected safety of flight or operation of the aircraft. Boeing issued service bulletins to the airlines early in 1998 outlining the extent of the nuisance messages that may occur on these aircraft and how to correct the problems.

Boeing did not review equipment or systems that an airline may have purchased off the shelf, such as in-flight entertainment systems, or those added after delivery, under an FAA Supplemental Type Certificate (STC). This is the responsibility of the operator, although Boeing is sharing any information it learns on these items with customers.

VIEW the Year 2000 changeover over from the cockpit of the flight test: -------------- Detailed Y2K Assessment information from Boeing: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_03/sy/sy02/fmain.ht ml

------- Regards,

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), December 05, 1999.


We'll know one of the key factors quickly enough. The railroads have announced that they're shutting down for 36 hours during the rollover in order to test their systems. HAVE I MISSED SOMETHING? WHO, WHEN AND WHERE DOES IT SAY THE RR WILL BE SHUT DOWN FOR 36 HOURS?

-- Taz (Tassie123@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

One thing for sure:

The coal fired power plants in the northern USA routinely carry much more than a one week supply of coal atall times of the year - especially winter.

Maybe two things for sure:

Not all coal fired power plants get their coal by train. The Ohio Valley from Pittsburgh to St. Louis (and I assume much of the Missiissippi navigable river system) carries much coal barge traffic. These barges should run as long as they can get diesel and the WVa coal miners can get the coal out of the ground. The locks work on a very ancient principle - gravity.

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), December 05, 1999.


The poster mentioned Volkswagen Europe. Does anyone have any additional information concerning that situation? Also, I am wondering how the railroads are doing? I read a few weeks ago that Norfolk Southern was behind on their coal diliveries.

-- Dave (dannco@hotmail.com), December 05, 1999.

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