From the Horses Mouth; Martial Law on the 28th : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Know a fellow who's the preparedness coordinator for Seventh Day Adventist churchs in Marion-Yamhill Counties Oregon. He talked to a local FEMA Rep who told him that the rumor at FEMA is national martial law being declared on the 28th! Sorry pollies, I'm not divulging his name, address, phone number or e-mail!

-- Ralph Kramden (, December 03, 1999


Gee, thanks so much for the HARD, VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE. It's posts like yours that really influence people, I'm sure.


-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), December 03, 1999.


Thanks dude. Wow. Let us know if you hear this from any other sources. You know the "second witness" thing...

-- Hokie (, December 03, 1999.

Ok Billy-Boy. This one's yours.

Earlier thread ("Travel on the 27th"-Ken Decker) had answer from "various sources@mil.`something or other'". That answer said 27th is "Lockdown".

-- maid upname (, December 03, 1999.

So a friend of yours who knows someone in FEMA told him that he heard from others who heard from others from a unspecific source that Martial Law is a given on Dec 28th?

That proves it for me. Get me 500 pounds of rice, beans and a shotgun. Is Y2KNewswire still running Y2KSupply because I want to give Mike Adams some money.

-- Village Idiot (, December 03, 1999.

Oh great...another friend of a friend who said thus and so story. The emphasis should be on verifiable, preferably "linked" information, NOT mindless, rumor riddled prattle.

-- Irving (, December 03, 1999.

Interesting. FEMA in Oregon. Yes, LockDown on December 28. Heard it now from several sources, .mil .gov etc.

Sooner "if events warrant." As in, any signs the herd is thinking of stirring.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (, December 03, 1999.

I believe there are several reasons why the 28th stands out. That is the day the new 50 million fed y2k center begins operations. Why then, and not, say, the 30th? The 28th is a Sunday (remember Pearl Harbor?). And as Chuck Lanza has repeatedly pointed out, in every blizzard or hurricane event the vast majority of folks wait until 3 days before to stock up. The feds are not idiots, they read the polls. And just subtract 3 from 31, what do ya get? I just wonder who Clinton is going to blame for the emergency?

-- Tennessean (, December 03, 1999.

The government is never prepared, no less for y2k. Way wait? Things are always so screwed up that martial law should be the rule of thumb. It isn't. Just proves my point!

-- martin friedman (, December 03, 1999.

********** IF ************ martial law was set into effect, it would only be AFTER people started panicing. They aren't going to just declare martial law on the 28th no matter what.

Things would have to get pretty ugly first. That remains to be seen.

-- C. Hill (, December 03, 1999.

Lets try this one from another angle.

I saw a report that oil refinaries (some) will shut down on Dec. 24, with a restart planned for early January. There is about 3-4 days supply of gasoline in the system if all refinaries are going full blast. Dec. 28th would be a point when gasoline inventories would be 30-50% of usual levels. Any delay in declaring martial law (no civilian travel on interstates, no gasoline purchases without ration tickets) would endanger the remaining supply.

Plus, you need a point between x-mas and new years.

-- David Holladay (, December 03, 1999.

KoS: "It's posts like yours that really influence people, I'm sure. Moron."

What a difference a day makes. I'd thought KoS, while a mite fixated on mud-daubed ladies, at least was thinking things through. Not so, it appears.

Of course this sort of anonymous, anecdotal report is unverifiable. Who in his (or her) right mind would be fool enough to stand on the rooftop and throw away his (or her) employment, risk possible criminal prosecution for violation of security? Not many people I know would jump in front of a moving train, either.

"Hard verifiable evidence" is never going to be available. Too many firms, too many administrators/managers/technicians, too many politicians, too many bureaucrats have too much to lose and nothing to gain by providing it. Anecdotal reports, regrettably, are the most anyone can expect.

No single report carries much weight. Only through looking at many such reports can any sort of coherent picture be gained. Possibly not even then.

-- Tom Carey (, December 03, 1999.

Many gov't official publicly claim that "public reaction is the main concern". I have little doubt that they feel that way. I'm inclined to agree since ANY outcome can be worsened by public reaction. It is only logical that they would move to limit or control what they percieve to be the greatest threat. How? First, by reassuring everyone repeatedly that "all is well". Secondly, with a deterrant. The most logical deterrant to crime and disorder, is law enforcement. So, I would not be surprised if they intend to visibly put a large number of police or guardsmen on the streets. Guardsmen or possibly even regular troops deployed to strategically located "staging areas" would also be logical.

Now a deterant is pro-active, not reactive. It would only be logical to put them in place beforehand. I have no "inside source", or crystal ball; this is just a logical estimate of what could happen. Then again, our gov't is not exactly known for logic.

Just my opinion, Worth at least what you paid for it.

-- MegaMe (, December 03, 1999.

As Ashton & Leska said, a lot of sources are saying the same thing. Ridicule the idea if you wish, it just makes you no better than the polly trolls.

-- (, December 03, 1999.

King of Spain:

Irritable today, uh? Constipation?

-- Dr. PollyDork (, December 03, 1999.

C Hill makes a good point. The .gov wouldn't declare martial law if there is NO panic or need. But, could something be planned to CAUSE a panic or need for martial law? If TPTB declare martial law, they better have a damn good reason. That type of declaration could be a hard one to swallow by most Americans. So, is something brewing in the witches kettle for the 28th?

-- Familyman (, December 03, 1999.

Where do I buy boatlaod of beans?

-- freddy (, December 03, 1999.

I have a question about martial law. I know that there would be curfews, and constraints on travel. But, what about commuters? Here in southern California many people commute 40 miles to work everyday. My daughter-in-law works about 25 miles from home in a department store. Would travel to jobs outside where you live be allowed?

-- Linda (, December 03, 1999.

>28th is Sunday....

Say what? The 28th is a Tuesday....

I don't expect to hear a peep out of the Slick One except "Happy New Year" and "come here, pretty baby".

-- cgbg jr (, December 03, 1999.

Martial law has always entailed the governments taking the action also strictly regulating the flow of information to the public. Newspapers and electronic media which do not toe the party line are shut down post-haste. What future does this bode for the internet?

-- Nikoli Krushev (, December 03, 1999.

HAHA pollydork. good one. actually i am stunned. KoS is usually soooooooo appealing. his "Moron" comment was not self-flattering. maybe its those kinky mud enemas you have been giving yourself, KoS. all packed and no where to go?!!

besides, WHO THE HECK IN THEIR RIGHT MIND IS GOING TO GIVE REAL NAMES, DATES, PLACES. WHAT IS THIS WITH THE "NEED TO KNOW" ALL? just believe everything and you won't have this dilemma.

-- tt (, December 03, 1999.

I need to add to my previous post on this thread. I have no issue with discussing possible dates for the start of Martial Law. It is just that every thread on this issue revolves around the same kind of material..."my cousin has a friend who has a friend who heard from..." yada, yada, yada. OK as far as it goes.

IMHO, it will take something akin to a high level military guy deciding he can't follow an illegal order or hates Comrade Clinton to COME FORWARD and spill the beans. Or perhaps a high level Cabinet officer breaking ranks with the administration out of conscience. Anything and everything else is anecdotal evidence. Until then, the sheeple remain dazed, confused and ultimately, at high risk.

-- Irving (, December 03, 1999.

Sooooo nice of 'em to at least let us enjoy Christmas undisturbed, dontcha think?

Eyein' our wallets full of credit cards, no doubt.

-- OR (, December 03, 1999.

Have to say that I would not be at all surprised. Hope not, because I need to drive from Boston area to daughter's house in PA on the 28th. Don't have a good feeling about that, but am unable to leave any sooner.

I know, all we get are 'rumors', but when you weave enough threads together it tends to hold water.

See thread below - just one example.

Emergency Agency Expects The Worst

The federal government is expecting the Y2K computer bug to cause more than just a few minor inconveniences, according to training materials for emergency managers.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency has been conducting regional Y2K workshops for federal agency officials who will be dealing with Y2K-related problems.

Under "Planning Assumptions," the document details conditions emergency managers are expected to encounter during the period now called "Day One" by federal officials -- Dec. 28 through Jan. 3.

The national FEMA emergency support team will be activated on full level one alert status from Dec. 28 through Jan. 4, according to the training documents. The team will be supported by the 10 FEMA regional operations centers, the FEMA liaison in each state, and a special network of emergency communications systems.

-- flb (, December 03, 1999.

Gawd!! I don't mean to be ruder than I usually am, but I can't help but believe that all these "reports from various sources" are nothing more than people just going bonkers over ECHOING. Person A hears it from B who tells it to C who says, "Gawd, 'A' just told me the same thing, so it MUST be true!!"

It is a waste of time to put up wishy-washy stuff like this. If you have evidence in hand -- like Jim Lord's expose of the Navy Report of last August -- then of course that is all together different. But honestly, these friend-of-a-friend-can't-give-details stories are useless.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), December 03, 1999.

It is a waste of time to put up wishy-washy stuff like this.

It's not a waste of time if it might save some lives. If it's wasting YOUR time, then don't read it.

-- (, December 03, 1999.

Where's the Prozac????????

-- Curly~Q (Curly@Q.COM), December 03, 1999.

More specifically, on 27th various local "teams" will put together all the props. It will go into effect December 28 at 1/a in the morning. The population will wake up to it on December 28.

Who knows? Several sources all say same thing, but also say "they're playing it by ear." Some of these same sources told us that martial law would be "visible" by November 1, 1999, which we posted last November -- a year before the fact. In October 1999 [a couple weeks early], the military restructured under "Joint Command" and a CNN article actually quoted them saying that Americans should not be surprised to see troops on the streets, that the whole reorg was so that they could respond to emergencies but just not call it exactly martial law. Martial Law Lite was mentioned on that thread. The intent was absolutely visible to anybody reading that article looking for indications.

From what we've seen in Seattle, it won't be Lite at all. Just wait until people are cold, dirty, hungry, and angry for very legitimate reasons, and want to march in their local town squares.

Our sources have an excellent track record so far, so we aren't afraid to post their tips. However, they don't know everything -- nobody does yet; not many people are able to see the big picture. And all of the sources are afraid for the future.

Our interpretations of what our sources are saying may not be correct, because we are puzzled by a lot of these military terms which they are immersed in and take for granted we weeples know what the heck they are referring to.

But for the record, we've posted their tips before, so it's archived on the Forum.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (, December 03, 1999.

Buy on rumor.

Sell on news.

Here's another rumor for you. *My* local sheriff's posse (mounted) is being instructed on the finer aspects of aiming and discharging their firearms from horseback. They will all be on duty over New Years and apparently not just for parades, drill team work or parking assistance.

-- JIT (, December 03, 1999.

OK, here's one of the articles. Wish we could find the thread where this was presented.

[ Fair Use: For Educational / Research Purposes Only ]

Expanded domestic use of U.S. military raising civil liberty concerns

The Pentagon, October 7, 1999, Web posted at: 10:27 p.m. EDT (0227 GMT)
From Military Affairs Correspondent Jamie McIntyre

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Changes in the Pentagon's command structure designed to give the military a supporting role in responding to domestic terrorist attacks or natural disasters is raising alarm among some civil libertarians.

In Norfolk, Virginia, on Thursday, top military leaders, and their civilian superiors, unveiled a retooled U.S. Joint Forces Command, formerly the U.S. Atlantic Command.

The new command will coordinate its efforts with federal law enforcement agencies and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. However, Secretary of Defense William Cohen said "it is very clear (the command) is subordinate to civilian control."

Pentagon officials say the idea behind the change is to give a president options short of martial law to deal with domestic crises.

"The reason that you want the Defense Department working now with the FBI, with the Justice Department, with FEMA is so we know how we will work when the time comes and we don't have to resort to extreme measures nobody wants in this country," said Deputy Defense Secretary John Hamre.

Also, a defense bill signed this week by President Bill Clinton contains a little-noticed provision that expands the authority of the military to assist law enforcement authorities in case of chemical or biological attacks.

The Pentagon argues that only the military has the field hospitals, helicopters and special chemical and biological equipment that would be vital in the aftermath of a major gas or germ attack.

"I should think the taxpayers would be upset if they thought we weren't preparing to help out the citizens in case of a catastrophic event," said Adm. Harold Gehman, who heads up the U.S. Joint Forces Command.

But the specter of armored military vehicles and armed troops on the streets of American cities has its critics.

"If the plan were simply to carry cots, to deliver supplies, to rescue people, we would be talking about a plan that included, as a feature, no armored vehicles and no armed soldiers," says Gregory Nojeim, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union. "I haven't heard a peep about that from the Pentagon."

Critics point to the disastrous siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, in 1993 -- in which military officials were called in to assist the FBI and the ATF -- as evidence that the military is already too involved in law enforcement.

"At Waco, there were dozens of Bradley fighting vehicles, there were tanks and there were soldiers," said Nojeim.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (, December 03, 1999.

KOS, your "echoing" observation neatly summed up a phenomenon well known to those who study human communication. Another element in the life cycle of a rumor is easy to demonstrate with that old children's game "telephone," or "whispering down the lane." Line 'em up, start the first kid relaying the message, and just see if you recognize what comes out of the last kid's mouth. It works with adults, too. Think how many steps removed from the original source most of these rumors are. Gotta agree with KOS. It's frustrating to be in an information vacuum, but you have to hang on to your critical thinking skills.

-- Thinman (, December 03, 1999.

Step 1: Let's all remember our deep breathing exercises...

-- Arnie Rimmer (, December 03, 1999.

Think it can't happen here? Oh, but it has!


Saturday, 6 November 1999, at 11:30 p.m.

In Response To: National Guard To Confiscate Guns??

Posse Comitatus Act No Check on White House Power, Attorneys Claim


Olson and Woll discovered that the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1863 that the president can unilaterally decide whether an insurrection is in effect and determine how much force is necessary to suppress it. He can "brand as belligerents the inhabitants of any area in general insurrection."

Equally shocking, in Olson's view, as the fact that the president can use the military against civilians, is the fact that former presidents have done so on "many occasions" -- none of them declaring martial law.

For example, in 1914 President Woodrow Wilson deployed federal troops in Colorado to suppress a labor dispute.

Olson-Wolls point out that Wilson ordered the U.S. Army to disarm American citizens -- including state and local officials, sheriffs, the police and the National Guard; to arrest American citizens; to monitor the state judicial process and re-arrest (and hold in military custody) persons released by the state courts; and to deny writs of habeas corpus issued by state courts.

Earlier, in South Carolina in 1871, without declaring martial law, President Grant sent troops into nine counties of South Carolina to enforce a proclamation commanding the residents to give up their arms and ammunition. Grant suspended the writ of habeas corpus. More than 600 arrests had been made by the end of 1871.

Between 1807 and 1925, federal troops were used more than 100 times to quell domestic disturbances -- sometimes the presence of the troops alone was enough to discourage the participants.

"Look at the history," Olson exclaimed. "None of what's happening is new. Could you ever imagine that the President of the United States could order the Army to disarm sheriffs, disarm police, and disarm the National Guard? Isn't that beyond what you'd ever dream?

"But it has happened. It's the fact that this has happened that should cause people to take this issue seriously."

But doesn't the Posse Comitatus Act provide restrictions against the use of the military?

This is the act that prohibits the Army or Air force from acting as a posse comitatus -- "the population of a county the sheriff may summon to assist him in certain cases."

"No one should ever think the Posse Comitatus Act is any check whatsoever on the ability of the federal government to employ military might against civilians," said Olson.

"We were surprised at how weak the Posse Comitatus Act is," he continued. "There have been no prosecutions ever, and it doesn't apply to any branch of the armed forces except the Army and the Air Force.

It has a huge exception -- that deployment of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus is a crime, 'except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress.'

"That 'Constitution or Act of Congress' exception is so broad you can drive a truck through," Olson remarked. "The final thing that surprised us was that that the military doesn't need an order from the president to have control over civilians," Olson said. "I had always thought only the president could declare martial law, but apparently not. Apparently any commander can do it, can suspend all civil rights."

Larry Pratt considers this last the most egregious of all the Olson-Woll findings.

"Military commanders can act on the basis that there is an emergency," said Pratt. "They don't have to wait until martial law is declared. The powers that they have in their hands are tremendous.

"People can't expect President Clinton to sit there in front of a camera and say, 'Tonight I have declared martial law,'" Pratt said.

"You'll just find out about it when you try and get on the main highway and there's a humvee with a soldier who says, 'Turn back.' And when you ask why, he puts his gun into ready position and says, 'I'm only following orders. Please turn back.'

"You can challenge that. You can say they -- the commander or the soldier -- have no constitutional authority for this, and you may be correct. But you will be arguing on the wrong side of a barbed wire fence. They can simply do it. It will not be debated.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (, December 03, 1999.

Thanks Ralph. Even though this is only hearsay, it doesn't suprise me in the least, in fact I completely expected it near the end of the year. I don't see any reason for people to get all paranoid and do something stupid like those punks in Seattle. They will be there to protect us, and if you don't mess with them, they won't mess with you.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 03, 1999.

Read above thread to get more details and hair-raising Y2K tie-ins. atest& f=99072601.plt&t=/products/washfile/newsitem.shtml

(By William S. Cohen)

(Mr. Cohen is the Secretary of Defense. The following op-ed column by him appeared in The Washington Post July 26. COPYRIGHT: 07/26/99 -- Public Domain -- no republication restrictions. Please Credit the Washington Post.)

In recent months, the eyes of the world have rightly focused on the threat to American interest and values in the Balkans. At the same time, we cannot afford a national case of farsightedness that precludes us from focusing on threats closer to home, such as the potential danger of a chemical or biological attack on U.S. soil.

The United States now faces something of a superpower paradox. Our supremacy in the conventional arena is prompting adversaries to seek unconventional, asymmetric means to strike our Achilles' heel.

At least 25 countries, including Iraq and North Korea, now have -- or are in the process of acquiring and developing -- weapons of mass destruction. Of particular concern is the possible persistence in some foreign military arsenals of smallpox, the horrific infectious virus that decimated entire nations down the ages and against which the global population is currently defenseless.

Also looming is the chance that these terror weapons will find their way into the hands of individuals and independent groups -- fanatical terrorists and religious zealots beyond our borders, brooding loners and self-proclaimed apocalyptic prophets at home.

This is not hyperbole. It is reality. Indeed, past may be prologue. In 1995 the Japanese cult Aum Shinrikyo used sarin gas in its attack on the Tokyo subway and also planned to unleash anthrax against U.S. forces in Japan. Those behind the 1993 World Trade Center bombing were also gathering the ingredients for a chemical weapon that could have killed thousands. In the past year, dozens of threats to use chemical or biological weapons in the United States have turned out to be hoaxes. Someday, one will be real.

What would that day look like? A biological agent would sink into the respiratory and nervous systems of the afflicted. The speed and scope of modern air travel could carry this highly contagious virus across hemispheres in hours. Indeed, the invisible contagion would be neither geographically nor numerically limited, infecting unsuspecting thousands -- with many, in turn, communicating the virus to whomever they touch.

The march of the contagion could accelerate astoundingly, with doctors offering little relief. Hospitals would become warehouses for the dead and the dying. A plague more monstrous than anything we have experienced could spread with all the irrevocability of ink on tissue paper. Ancient scourges would quickly become modern nightmares.

Welcome to the grave New World of terrorism -- a world in which traditional notions of deterrence and counter-response no longer apply. Perpetrators may leave no postmark or return address -- no tell-tale signs of a missile launch, no residue of TNT that can be traced to a construction site, no rental truck receipts leading to the foolhardy suspects. In fact, their place of business may be a number of countries that are conducting bioengineering under the guise of pharmaceutical research. Penicillin for the poor, or ebola for the enemy? Who is to say, and with what deterrent is America left?

Preparation is itself a deterrent. By minimizing the death and destruction would-be terrorists hope to spawn, we reduce the likelihood they will even try. Yet a chemical or biological strike on American soil could quickly surpass any community's ability to cope.

As part of a federal interagency effort launched last year by President Clinton and led by the National Security Council, the Defense Department is doing its part to prepare the nation for the catastrophic consequences of an attack that unleashes these horrific weapons. Because it has long prepared to face this grim possibility on the battlefield, the military has unique capabilities to offer in the domestic arena as well.

Several core principles are guiding our efforts. First, any military assistance in the wake of a domestic attack must be in support of the appropriate federal civilian authority -- either the Department of Justice or the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Second, an unequivocal and unambiguous chain of responsibility, authority and accountability for that support must exist. Third, military assistance should not come at the expense of our primary mission -- fighting and winning our nation's wars. A special Task Force for Civil Support is being created to ensure that we have the military assets necessary to help respond domestically while still meeting our foremost mission.

Fourth, our military response efforts will be grounded primarily in the National Guard and Reserve.

In contrast to their more familiar role of reinforcing active-duty forces overseas, our guard and reserve are the forward-deployed forces here at home. Special National Guard teams are being positioned around the nation to advise and assist communities upon request.

Finally, we must not and trample on American lives and liberties in the name of preserving them. Fears about the military's role in domestic affairs are unfounded, as evidenced by a long history of reasonable and successful military support to communities ravaged by natural disasters, such as fire and flood.

As in the past, any military support will be precisely that -- support. Both legal and practical considerations demand it. The Posse Comitatus Act and the Defense Department's implementing policies are clear -- the military is not to conduct domestic law enforcement without explicit statutory authority, and we strongly believe no changes should be made to Posse Comitatus. Also clear is that the military's unique assets are most valuable when used to supplement -- not supplant -- continuing federal, state or local efforts. This is one of the reasons we are helping to train the local emergency "first responders" in 120 cities under a program mandated by Congress and now being transferred to the Justice Department.

But merely managing the consequences of an attack is not sufficient. We must be vigilant in seeking to interdict and defeat the efforts of those who seek to inflict mass destruction on us. This will require greater international cooperation, intelligence collection abroad and information gathering by law enforcement agencies at home. Information is clearly power, and greater access to information will require the American people and their elected officials to find the proper balance between privacy and protection.

There need be no fear or foreboding by the American people of the preparations of their government.

On the contrary, the greater threat to our civil liberties stems from the chaos and carnage that might result from an attack for which we had failed to prepare and the demands for action that would follow.

Mere months before the attack on Pearl Harbor shocked America out of its slumber, Walter Lippmann wrote, "Millions will listen to, and prefer to believe, those who tell them that they need not rouse themselves, and that all will be well if only they continue to do all the pleasant and profitable and comfortable things they would like to do best."

The race is on between our preparations and those of our adversaries. We are preparing for the possibility of a chemical or biological attack on American soil because we must. There is not a moment to lose.

(Mr. Cohen is the Secretary of Defense.)


-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (, December 03, 1999.

Doesn't anybody on this list read WorldNetDaily or The article was on both newspages earlier this week. What's the surprise? What's the problem? It's common knowledge by now.

-- Liz Pavek (, December 03, 1999.

As part of a federal interagency effort launched last year by President Clinton and led by the National Security Council, the Defense Department is doing its part to prepare the nation for the catastrophic consequences of an attack that unleashes these horrific weapons. Because it has long prepared to face this grim possibility on the battlefield, the military has unique capabilities to offer in the domestic arena as well.

. . .

The race is on between our preparations and those of our adversaries. We are preparing for the possibility of a chemical or biological attack on American soil because we must. There is not a moment to lose.

When I read these parts, I looked up and went Hmmmmmmmm!!!!!

-- BH (, December 03, 1999.


And away we go.....

Hi Ralph,

If you could, ask your friend to see if he could get that in print from the FEMA guy.

The document the FEMA guy read would be a real good place to start. If he is ok with that.


-- snooze button (, December 03, 1999.


Iffin they declare M.L. on the 28th, the get-it-3-days-ahead-of-event sheeple won't be able to get ANY of their 3-days-like-a-storm preps.

And iffin they WERE allowed to get 3 days of preps 3 days ahead of time they'd probably use it up and STILL wouldn't have any preps by 12/31 so I say: What difference does it make?

-- Charli Claypool (, December 03, 1999.

************************************************** **************************************************

Hoping for the time, grace & space for a PEACEFUL CHRISTMAS.
May you all be safe and sound with your families, and not need to travel.

************************************************** **************************************************

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (, December 03, 1999.

A possible scenario??? The government allows a peaceful Christmas holiday weekend, December 24th thru the 26th. Then on Monday, December 27th, in the evening........9:00 pm eastern time, 6:00 pm Pacific time, Clinton makes an announcement carried by ALL network television and radio. He announces that with the expectation of Y2k disruptions, however major or minor they might be, and possible terrorist activity, he is declaring the next week a federal holiday week. He encourages major companies to give their employees a week off, and recommends that only emergency and service operations (utility companies, grocery stores, etc.) remain open. Clinton has on hand spokesmen for the military, Nat. Guard, utilities, banking etc. who each make a brief statement assuring the public that they have prepared for any possible Y2K glitches, and they don't expect anything more than minor disruptions. Then the panic begins.......

-- Linda (, December 03, 1999.

A phone call or two should be able to get you the name of the preparedness coordinator for the Seventh Day churches there. To get a confirmation is another story but, AT LEAST make the calls before `slinging' mud.

When you sling mud, your hands get dirty too.

Ashton & Leska mornin'! Saw the sun today... yipee!

Ex-Representative Bob Dornan said before (prior Seattle-WTO) that Martial Law WOULD NOT HAPPEN. Today he left an open door saying, if people were to act as they have done in Seattle it would not be unreasonable to have it. He cited the 1st ammendment-"peaceably" being the key word. Seattle definitely wasn't peaceable, no matter who instigated it.

Dornan is right too. We have the right to peaceably assemble and petition. Maybe the fracus there was planted. Maybe not. But if everyone goes on their personal opinions instead of a foundation of law, the `Ship of State' will sink like the Titanic.

Not easy or pleasant-not what our emotional arguments demand, but it's the only way to succeed for the `melting pot' of our population.

-- maid upname (, December 03, 1999.


My 42nd birthday is the 28th. Oh well, Happy Birthday to me.......

-- don (, December 03, 1999.

Hi maid! It seems all too obvious to us that the masses will want to march in protest around, oh the second or third week of January.

Y2K Protests, too, must be peaceful. We suggest everybody carry several lengths of rope and IMMEDIATELY as a group tie up any protestor they see who sets fires, smashes glass, etc. Citizen arrest. Police yourselves, don't give TPTB ANY excuse to unleash the oppression!

We'll be hiding in place, hibernating, praying. We have the prep advantage, for a little while, thanks to this Forum. But think of all the millions upon millions who don't know, who have only heard vaguely about Y2K and heard "Everything's Taken Care Of," and who haven't been watching Seattle for clues and lessons.

We are already praying for them.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (, December 03, 1999.

While I was at the Nashville, Tn meeting of the Prophecy Club this Tuesday, I was told by the Nashville club president that he was personally told by FEMA that the interstates would be closed down shortly after Christmas Day.

You can take it from there......

-- Vernon Hale (, December 03, 1999.

Read Nickoli's answer again.

Read Nickoli's answer again.

Read Nicko....

-- maid upname (, December 03, 1999.

I have a college friend who works for FEMA. He told me that they are going on full activation on the 28th: the regional centers will be operating 24 hours a day from that point until whenever. All FEMA emergency personnel will be on 12-hour on/12-hour off shifts from that point on.

-- Steve Heller (, December 03, 1999.

007 The Plan is what it is called on the local level of E.M.A. (Emergency Management Agency). It is designed to interface with S.E.M.A. (State Emergency Management Agency) and it to F.E.M.A. (Federal...) you get the picture. It is a stand alone Emergency Plan that is approved by your local governing body. It is in what is called the pre-conversion stage and will only go to the Trans- conversion stage if things start breaking down. 12/28/99 thur 01/03/00 is going to be monitored closely . Much of IBEN 007's post is right on. I have not heard of any plans to declare a state of Emergency on the 28th. And please before you dog me, check it out for yourself.

-- RWells (, December 03, 1999.

And it could all begin with a quiet fireside chat by POTUS.

To maid upname. At your request I read Nickoli's post again. Twice. The internet. One of those things that make you go Hummmmmm.

-- Mike Lang (, December 03, 1999.

Ahhh ! KOS what's da madder, pages of your mud wrestling magazines all stuck together??? My little anecdote was not mean't to be UNREFUTABLE, TOTALLY VERIFIABLE,ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!!No, it is merely one admittedly minor piece in the puzzle we're all trying to assemble.By itself it's worthless. But it's not by itself is it?? In reading the answers to this thread, you'll notice that many others have contributed other more substancial pieces to the puzzle. Some have included links and documentation and the picture is begining to take shape. Other pieces include the article way back in January's National Guard Magazine entitled Racing against the Calender.Then there is Jack Anderson's column in the May 3rd Deseret News, ( Salt Lake City) entitled, " The Government's Secret Y2K Plans". Both articles are available on Scary Gary's site and both make it plain that martial law was being considered and prepared for as long as a year ago. About two weeks ago there was a thread here from a Missouri Nat Guardsmen who stated that his transport unit had uncharacteristicly been issued heavy weapons; SAWS, M-60s, 50 cals etc. He stated that in his 20 plus years as a guardsmen he'd never seen a transport unit issued such weapons; another piece to the puzzle. Sounds like his unit is going to do food convoys!

-- Ralph Kramden (, December 03, 1999.

What to find out who the "pepardness coordinator for the Seventh-day Aventist Church is in Marion-Yamhill Counties, Oregon?" Simply call the Northern California Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, Pleasant Hill, California. They'll get you in touch with the man and you can ask him for yourself. Not sure if they have a conference in Oregon, but nevertheless, just call and ask, they'll be more than happy to help you.

-- ~~~~~ (, December 03, 1999.

OK, let me try it from a different perspective.

There is a mountain of evidence suggesting that plans to implement martial law due to Y2K disruptions are in place. This includes the Presidential Executive Orders that address so-called "cyberterrorism" (the EFFECTS of which are identical to Y2K, so who's to know the difference?), and the re-organization of FEMA to allow direct military involvement in handling disasters. Whether this will actually happen, whether indeed it will happen PRIOR to Jan 1, etc., etc. is obviously very speculative.

Loosey-goosey reports that have nothing solid behind them, but get very specific in the way of things like ACTUAL DATES, tend to detract from the credibility of whatever assertion they are supposed to be supporting. Like the "failed" Y2K-like predictions that the pollies are always barfing up (e.g., fiscal year 2000 rollover dates), such unreliable reports obscure and detract from the real evidence.

What happens if December 28 passes without martial law being declared? Does that invalidate that mountain of evidence that the plans are in place? It shouldn't, but I'll bet that a lot of people who might be "fence sitting" would conclude that the whole thing was yet another example of "tinfoil" hyseria.

It just helps to try to adhere to a standard for one's belief system -- "critical thinking skills" as Thinman called it. In the long run, it's better for everybody. (Especially when we are always on Cherri's case for here completely off-the-wall claims about how embedded systems work.)

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), December 03, 1999.

I tremble at the thought of disobedience to the mighty KoS, (He is usually SO wise!) but feel I must toe the mud in an opposite direction.

If you mess with speculation enough, it can fertilize a search for truth... extra details, possible confirmations. We know speculation is not Gospel. In this case, there was enough information at the very start to allow attempts at verification.

Please don't discourage speculation... A tease with some leads can result in some rather strange miracles. With all due respect to the King of Spain.

-- (normally@ease.notnow), December 03, 1999.

Sounds like KOS is becoming a polly.

-- (, December 04, 1999.

United States Army Intelligence Center Fort Huachuca, AZ 85613-6000

Force XXI/Intelligence XXI

This page maintained by: USAIC&FF WWW Office.

Last modified on 5 May 96



(down to item 10)

10) Frequent, varied deployments in Operations Other then War (OOTW), to include assistance to civilian authorites, will continue through the year 2010.


Don't know why or how this came through but I was fooling with the computer several years ago and after several attempts this came through. It is not classified.

-- spymaster (, December 04, 1999.

Agree with KOS. And as A&L point out, dates can be "real" in terms of planning and expectation but actions can vary depending on circumstances. I can well believe that "martial law" or equivalent plans were readied for dates like November, 1999, based on THEN expectations about how, um, err, citizens might be preparing nervously for Y2K.

Prepare? What, me worry?

It is LIKELY that Dec. 28 is a possible trigger date for lockdowns, etc., DEPENDING on a combination of citizenry reaction over the next few weeks, terrorist incidents probing our pre-Y2K readiness, etc.

POSSIBLE trigger date. Not something "predictable".

-- BigDog (, December 04, 1999.

Seattle was... hmmm... "instructive". Looks like there is a reasonable possibility that disturbances were intentionally caused in order to precipitate a curfew and "civil emergency" PRIOR to First Perp's arrival.

If you anticipate the POSSIBILITY of problems... much better for planning to try to control the timing. And wouldn't be all that hard. People traveling for Christmas would likely be home by Monday. Ready to turn attention to end-of-the-year plans. Wouldn't take much of anything to clear out a bank or two of available cash... or a few stores out of milk and bread. A few articles FINALLY pointing out how much DIDN'T get fixed. ... Or... a terrorist act of some sort (has the advantage of being blamed on bad guys, not CEO's lack of forethought)... result is the same. First result - control ALL information releases from DC bunker.

-- Linda (, December 04, 1999.

It's often tedious to read through all the posts to one question. However, it doesn't take a genius (aka:rocket scientist) to know that there definitely ARE preps by the government to put all of the stones in places for martial law. When, how, and where seems unimportant when we know that there is no longer an *if*. Just make your position of readiness as sure as possible. Some faith in God would be in order as well. BTW, my birthday is the 29th....better celebrate early. Sadly, my niece' first child is due on the 23rd and they haven't a clue as to what's going on.

-- Kenin Marble (, December 04, 1999.

You people are missing the whole point! This thread is very very long. This is RUMOR! Nothing is out of the horses mouth! You know, I saw a FEMA guy the other day, and I had a conversation with him, and I have reported whatever. However, I'm not saying squat about who he is. Get a grip people! In order for martial law to be put into effect there has to be an event! I am sorry to say this to you people, but unless you get your heads about you, your going to be running in so many directions you will not know which way is up. Go back and reread the post up at the top! What are the facts? Where is proof? Quit biting at the rumors! Someone is posting this crap to get you scared and to immobolize you. Keep your focus on your preparations and your ability to survive. You will know soon enough what is happening, until then quit listening to bullshit!

-- bardou (, December 04, 1999.

We are focused on preparations, bardou. We just don't have our head in the sand about this issue as you and the pollies seem to. It's an important issue to keep in mind, but if you don't think so, then why are you reading about it?

-- (, December 05, 1999.

You know Bardou; you talk about rumors and BS and staying focused, but in all the answers above, only you and KOS sound shrill and hysterical. Me thinks you both doth protest too much, but then the message is a bit unsettling isn't it???

-- Ralph Kramden (, December 05, 1999.

Category: Martial_Law

December 28 Standby Mobilization for New York's Air National Guard

Comment: I received this e-mail.
* * * * * * * * * * *

I am in the NY Air National Guard. We were just briefed today, during our monthly drill, that we are on Y2K standby as of the 28th of Dec through the 7th of January. We will be on call 24 hours a day through this time period.

-- today (at@garynorth', December 07, 1999.

We have been relocated and can now only lurk. The facility that we are in tracks all web traffic so posting is not an option.

BTW the powers that be have only released recently that the power grid is attached to GMT. There is mad-dash-scramble taking place, they were planning on using every available second for remediation, a loss of five hours might not sound like much in the scheme of things, but from a planning and contingency perspective they now have to stage assets during the daylight hours as opposed to the cover of darkness. Has been rather entertaining.

As far as martial law nationwide, can't happen. There is simply not enough manpower to do the job. Do the math: 2 million troops (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Guard and Reserve) divide by 120 cities. Not enough troops to contain and this doesn't include crossroads, checkpoints, interstates, or other strategic points. We are more worried with local officials ala Seattle busting heads than we are with the feds. The feds will be plenty busy with the international effects.

Feel free to post this info ...

-- yes it's him (confirmation@yes.don't.ask), December 13, 1999.

For those of you interested, there will be a meet in Bok's chatroom on Dec 29th at 8:30 pm CST to discuss martial law and whether it was implemented. Since I have tomatos still ripening for the picking, it will be a combination, ML/tomato for throwing, but for virtual eating.

BYOS (that would be salt.)

-- Anita (, December 15, 1999.

Look: in the areas where infrastructure outages are probable (and the .gov does have a 1/2 a$$ grip on where they'll happen, believe it or not) the last thing they want is mass exodus. Only way to stop that is via ML on highways. And you can't wait until after the fact to get your people and machinery in place.

Is that so hard to fathom?

-- lisa (, December 15, 1999.

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