A few days ago, I posted a message that brought some interesting and thoughtful feedback, but mostly just accusations of being a troll. And what was the basis for this name-calling? The fact that I voiced opinions that are unpopular in this forum. So, in order to fit in with the rest of you, I have decided to renounce my polly beliefs and say what you all want to hear: The government is handing us a pack of lies, Klinton knows this is going to kill people but he doesn't give a care, money and effort spent on Y2K remediation is all in vain (computer code doesn't care), corporation assurances on compliance mean nothing, the media is controlled by spin doctors who wish to brainwash the masses into ignorance, anyone who decides Y2K probably won't be as bad as they first thought is a traitor, the stock market will crash tremendously, sending us into another Great Depression (if not another Dark Ages). There, is that better? Now that my ideas line up with the other doomers, perhaps what I say will be taken seriously and I won't be labeled petty names. After all, before I was just trying to stir up trouble for the forum, but now that I echo (many of) your sentiments, I'm just another watchful and wary individual. I'm no fool. I don't believe the government is always right; in fact, I don't support many things that go on in government. I don't believe the media is totally unbiased; in fact, their bias is disgustingly obvious sometimes. And I don't think Y2K will be a non-event. There will be disruptions. All is not well. But I'm a whole lot more positive about the outcome of the rollover because I've watched carefully what has happened over the past 2 years, and I truly believe the situation has improved greatly. My opinions have shifted over that period of time, based on the evidence and indicators I've seen. When it looked like electricity and banks were not going to make it, I was calling for a 9 or 10. But no rational person can deny that things have improved to the point that it no longer makes sense to make predictions anywhere near that. However, some people are set in their ways: Y2K WILL be TEOTWAKI (sp?), and you can't convince them otherwise. Just look at what happened when "indicator dates" passed by without notable problems; many people then decided they weren't important after all, because they didn't indicate what they were expecting (even though many of the same people were sure these dates were important before). For those of you wondering why I write these things when I don't have the same "sense of urgency" as you, the answer is simple. I like to express my opinion and I like to challenge perceptions I feel to be misguided. Personally, I find it much more stimulating to be challenged in my thinking than to get constant pats on the back from people who agree with me.

-- Brandon Smith (giveme@break.com), December 02, 1999

Answers

The troll has returned. Go Away.

-- (brett@miklos.org), December 02, 1999.

Brandon....I have been laughing at the name calling on this forum for some time now...the debunker forums are even worse...they actually get near-violent in their name calling over there. I see no uise for names like "doomers", "pollies", "trolls", but that is because I don't need them.

I am with you. I have 3 months worth of preps, and I even bought a shotgun for the first time in my life, but I have kept an open mind. I do feel better about the state of the rollover night, I am actually more worried about the econmic impact of Y2K than anything.

One of the things you have to keep in mind is that people vary in their opinions on this subject. I know a certain number of people in here actually HOPE the world falls apart..and still others hope it does not. Some of the people in this forum have altered their entire lives because they believe TEOTWAWKI has arrived. There is an endless line of different opinions in here, and all you can do is evaluate YOUR thoughts, and make what you consider to be rational decisions based on what you experience. If you do that, then you are way ahead of %90 of the population of this planet.

If some of the people in here disagree with you, just thank them for posting a reply and be done with it. If they are trying to get a rise out of you, and you fire back at them, you are playing into their hands.

I've come to the conclusion that no matter what you say, a certain percentage of the people in here will disagree, and will probably call you a name or too. Don't sweat it. That is just how they are coping with the events at hand. I had a little blow up here about a month ago, because of all the negative stress Y2K was giving me, and because I feel like my life has been on hold for 1.5 years. I am over that now, and I am ready to accept Y2K for what it is, or isnt.

peace to you

Cory

-- C. Hill (pinionsmachine@hotmail.com), December 02, 1999.

Brandon, my opinion of Y2K's severity has changed over the year. I find myself leaning towards the polly side from time to time. My husband, on the other hand, has become more concerned than ever. I'm still happy with the level of preparations we've made, which gives me peace of mind. The fact remains though..we still won't know until 1/1/00 what shape we're really going to be in. I never gave much credence to "trigger dates". What made me become more pollyish while my husband became more doomerish off the exact same news articles? I really can't pin point it...but we seem to coexsist quite happily regardless. To me a doomer is a doomer is a doomer...we have all recognized a threat and responded by preparing for it in some fashion. That's to all our credits. Every GI seems to do what's right for them.

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), December 02, 1999.

What fun for you to write. What an annoyance to read. As far as I can make out, this post is all about you. Your opinions. What they used to be. What they are now. Your sense of grievance that other people didn't take you as seriously as you take yourself. What you find enjoyable and stimulating. The fact you don't like to be called a troll (who does?).

Key quote: "I like to express my opinion..."

So, if this post fails to attract the kind of feedback you find interesting and stimulating does that mean we can look forward to yet another post complaining about the fact that your complaints were ignored?

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), December 02, 1999.

If, as you assume, the people on this forum are all of a similiar mindset RE: Y2K, then posting a contrarian point of view just to get a reaction would be the very definition of a troll. That is not to say that that is inherently a "bad" thing, but for those of us who use this forum for information gathering and (speaking for myself) long ago reached the conclusion that Y2K will be far more unpleasant than a mere "bump in the road", your trolling is more or less a waste of time. So, to be blunt about it, if you post a point of view on this forum that does run counter to the prevailing opinion, don't be too surprised if you get a few slams. That's life. If you ask for lumps you should not be shy about taking them.

And I do agree, by the way, that things have improved, but I still feel that the progression from doing nothing at all to doing very little is hardly that laudable and does not warrant any drastic adjustment of my doomometer.

-- Ludi (ludi@rollin.com), December 02, 1999.

Brandon,
Everybody's entitled to their opinion and perspective (hopefully, they're related), and you are no exception. We welcome your presence around our fire (what a metaphor, huh?), just as long as you care to lurk, or contribute to the overall effort of mutual edification, information, amusement, etc. etc.
We would not, however, be casually classified as a bunch of optimists with regards to the near future days. None of us stand to gain ANYTHING by life as we presently know it going down the tubes; but since none of us are clairvoyant (well, there might be a few) we are led by our intuition, derived from a heck of a lot of research into the details of our house-of-cards technological tower of Babel society, towards a rather pessimistic expectation of the near future.
You may be right, or, we may be right. But it is decidedly foolish to walk into the midst of a bunch of people really leaning in a certain direction, and not expect a frown or two from some of them who don't share your optimism.
Now, since you want to be one of us, here's your tinfoil hat (you'll have to adjust it a little - we make them big so that one size can fit all, remember to keep the corners tightly twisted so that you wont be hurt by ELF waves or HAARP power bursts; Go see Mocklamer for your LED flashlight, Watch out for the blue UN signs on the interstates, take your colloidal silver regularly, report any black helicopters or UN troops on US soil that you might see, keep your gas mask hidden if you visit the Seattle area (unless you are inundated with fallout from chemical contrails, in which case the gas mask goes on your face regardless; watch out for the new comets within our solar system that NASA doesn't want us to know about, the walmart trailers are off limits (don't even ask the store managers about them), be careful of X ray bursts from the unusally violent sunspots recently...have I left anything out, anybody?...oh, yeah. If you like mudwrestling, the King of Spain over there can probably hook you up, watch out for the Brits that post on here, they have a really British sense of humor, and they can be very ascerbic...don't let them bother you...and don't, FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING HOLY, feed them blankety blank Trolls!!! Listen to Diane, she can hurt you if you cross her, and mind your P's and Q's with some of the other oldies, they've been here a long time and deserve our respect!! Got it? Good. Now go have a seat, and play us a song on your guitar. An old Beatle tune, I would hope.......

-- Jay Urban (Jayho99@aol.com), December 02, 1999.

Andy Ray by any other name (or font color) is still a troll

-- (LooksLike@you.too), December 02, 1999.

Jay Urban:

High Five to ya...ROTFLMAO!!!

-- (prepper@abouta4.com), December 02, 1999.

So, Brandon, the answer to your problem is to come here and sarcasticly mock those who are concerned? Is this how you "challenge perceptions"?

You make posts telling us to "face the reality". What reality is that? Yours?

Your 'opinion' is that "things are looking a lot better". Sorry, but I can't agree. Sure, a lot of time and money has been spent trying to fix the problem, but the big question is "has it been fixed?". Do we know for sure that enough remediation has been done so that we won't have a major problem? I don't believe anyone can honestly say yes to that with 100% certainty. Can we trust that all the positive reports are accurate? I believe not. So, for me at least, the threat is still real. Personally, I can't say that I think things will be bad nor can I say that I think things will be ok. I just don't know.

I will agree with you in that I truly believe that the situation has improved greatly....but again, is it enough? The answer for me is to continue to prepare just in case it's not. I've come to far to stop now.

You claim that "no rational person can deny that things have improved to the point that it no longer makes sense to make predictions anywhere near [a 9 or 10]". I say that it makes just as much sense as it ever did. Sure the reports sound good. Do I trust them enough to gamble my (and my loved ones) livelihood? Certainly not (and I do consider myself a rational person). It's not that I'm predicting a 9 or 10, it's just that I haven't seen enough to convince me that it's not a possible scenerio. As far as I'm concerned, anything could happen.

Your last three sentences seemed to have been an attempt to answer my previous question as to why you were concerned enough to make a post such as you did before. Am I correct in understanding that one of the reasons is not out of concern but rather to challenge others that YOU feel are "misguided"? This admission in itself, sounds like a very trollish attitude to me.

I don't have a problem with people voicing their opinions either way, but I do have a problem with someone who presents it in such a manner as to intentionally get a rise out of others. You state that you don't want to be called a troll, yet your behavior is just that. I would have to concur with semper paratus when he told you that "You knew exactly the response you would get here" (from your post titled "Attention all pessimistic skeptics"). In my books, that makes you a troll. In your own words...."If you don't like it, sorry".

If you truly don't wish to come across as a troll and would like your opinions challenged by those who are "misguided" without being refered to as such, then you might consider presenting your post a bit differently.

-- WeedWhacker (no@email.com1), December 03, 1999.