We had a late night mtg last night and during a break we caught part of Robert Cringley, self-appointed PC guru and "sex-symbol" (see website at PBS, his bio)on WHUR here in Dee Cee. His take on Y2K

What an amazing reporter and what a fantatsic example of 1 dimensional thinking. Yessir, no large computer systems in a hydro plant and ergo no problems with the grid. Yessir, Chevron VP says we can pump oil in west Africa and transport it here, nothing on the 10-Q statement and crickets chirping when it came to refineries, we will have fuel, Amen. BTW we have "set-aside fuel" but that is not stockpiling, however, if JQP does that: shame nothing but shame.

Reminds us of the scene in Animal House, where the ROTC puke (played by Kevin Bacon) screams at the crowd "All is well, do not panic" and he is eventually trampled, however in our circumstance the Public is listening.

Absolute disgust, to the point where you can't spit. This is now beyond surreal. Protestors beaten senseless in Seattle, but POTUS says he deplores the violence of the Protestors. IEA -We may have to ration oil page 27B. Bill Gates wife is pregnant Dow rises 109 points, correction it's going to be twins Dow falls 257 it may affect R&D. "I feel your pain, and we live in a Global Economy therefore if something goes wrong in Japan or Europe or Asia it won't effect us." Insane doublespeak.

Where we are, folkes are just plugging along, just another mission, just another contingency, don't contemplate the possible outcome. This can't be happening. Un-F*cking Real.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 02, 1999

Answers

TECH32,

Jeez.... does that mean us folks in New Mexico are going to be repatriated to the Motherland?

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), December 02, 1999.

c4i,

Have you scenario-planning folks come up with any plausible theories for when the "disconnect" might turn into a "connect"? One of the possibilities is a so-called "wild card" event (to use a phrase from Bruce Webster) -- i.e., something relatively unexpected, but something that makes it unavoidably obvious to even the most clueless citizen that 2+2=4 and that Y2K is not OK.

Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), December 02, 1999.

Same old, same old. But have you heard this one: The only problems are with systems that use COBOL, and nobody uses it anymore! I feel bad for all those companies that make their livelihood selling COBOL since nobody uses it! Yeah, unreal!!!

-- IMREADYRU (paladin456999@yahoo.com), December 02, 1999.

Any change in your perception of declaration of emergency december 27th to 28th?

Sense of unreality??

Lord, making "plans" and budgets for next year.

All the while not expecting gas or diesel to even be available to civilians...........

good luck, please keep stopping by. We *do* appreciate anything you wish to share or will just listen and sympathize with the screaming frustration.

-- mushroom (mushroom_bs_too_long@yahoo.com), December 02, 1999.

C4, Understand your frustration. At work i see the people in charge of preparations for the rollover making plans for a (potentially) very messy situation. Yet on a personal level, they are making none for themselves or their families. The diconnect is truly staggering. Suggesting that they make personal plans gets you a look of you must be insane. The mantra is things will be ok here, its the rest of the world that goes bye-bye.

-- Noone (None@none.com), December 02, 1999.

Oh yeah I hear ya. Had a convo with a programer friend. He says most PC's will be toast, alot of data backup from mainframes "expire" end of year so data can be overwritten with no warning (complained he had to redo all his backups) but he's not worried. Says he has some water stored and lots of wood. Argued oil is no problem as our countries "reserves" are what is in the ground we stopped pumping. Lord what a wierd conversation that was with him. Then he offered to lend me his backup system so I can backup my PC and do the 2000 fixes. Oh then said he was maxing his CC's out cuz if it goes bad they will lose his records (he works as a programmer for one of the biggest credit card clearing places in the nation). Tho he says naw wasn't gonna happen on losing his records. Gawd what a disconnect.

-- Stacia (ClassyCwgl@aol.com), December 02, 1999.

C4I,

Yep, the situation is surreal to say the least.

Btw, in a prior thread you mentioned Mexico trying to take back the southwest. I just got the new Rage Against the Machine album "The Battle of Los Angeles". I think I understand where you guys are coming from now...

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), December 02, 1999.

Ed,

I don't know but these guys are definitely music for the New Revolution. If you don't know, Rage is a VERY popular band. The whole album is really about taking back the lands stolen from Mexico although two songs really stand out in terms of Y2K/War.

The first is "New Millenium Homes" with lines like 'Hungry people don't stay hungry for long, they get hope from fire and smoke as they reach for the dawn' and 'Violence in all hands Embrace it if need be, livin been warfare I press it to CD'.

The second song is "War within a breath" with sections like:

'Cause for Raza livin in La La Is like Gaza on tha dawn of Intifada Reach for the lessons the masked passed on And seize the Metropolis It's you that it's built on'

with the chorus being:

'Everything can change on a New Years Day As everything changed on a New Years Day

War within a breath It's land or death'

The album *IS* called "The Battle of Los Angeles" after all...

Speak Spanish Ed??

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), December 02, 1999.

Same deal here where I work. I won't say the name, but here's the hint: the largest Telcomm Co on the planet. No one here I have talked to is prepping at all, but the Co itself is very Y2K active. Serious disconnects!

-- Ludi (ludi@rollin.com), December 02, 1999.

c4i

Perhaps that show was not the most misleading garbage I have ever seen but it was very close. I'm still angry at the obvious lies and the manner that they were told.

How about all the cutsy graphics and images? Mr. Rogers should have been the host. Ideally this should have been run on Saturday morning to convince the children there is no problem-but the children probably have more sense.

I think the not so subtle intent was to instill a feeling of complacency. Eveything is under control and the government has the situation well in hand.

I disliked the manner that the comments of Dale Way were segmented so there was the lack of an overall grasp of the situation. I'm sure that was intentional also.

It might have been intersting to hear the entire interview with the man from Gartner Group.

The entire charade was a cut and paste attempt to undermine reality.

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), December 02, 1999.

Good question Ed.

Been wondering myself. Afraid I know the answer and it won't be pretty.

*Sigh*

Think... what's the flip side concern for Y2K that FEMA, the DoD, et. al., are "really" concerned about.

Diane

Flashback...

OT?: William S. Cohen, Secretary of Defense: Preparing For A Grave New World (USIA)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 0018ov

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 02, 1999.

Thanks guys.

I figured out who POTUS is and he puzzles me. I'm very angry about the situation in Seattle and how quickly the civil rights of US citizens are "set aside" on thier own soil because an international conference. It's therefore much easier for me to see that other rights we enjoy which are far less visible but equally important are also at risk.

Sorry, I gotta rant.

People should really, really consider what is happening in Seattle. I got to view the Rodney King verdict aftermath from my balcony. Police here in L.A. were docile by comparison to the Seattle PD. What is happening to the PEACEFUL PROTESTORS is shocking let alone the more malicious among them. Go back and view video tape from years ago.

Gas masks are suddenly illegal? By who's authority? Was a law passed? Was there public debate? Was there a ballot measure? WHERE ARE OUR RIGHTS? Where are the rights of the individual citizen? How did a mayor get such authority to act so independently, away from the constitution?

A 50 block "no protest zone"? What about those peaceful groups that had obtained legal permits to protest this conference? Their rights were suspended with amazing speed.

"don't contemplate the possible outcome". Seems there is a lot of that going on these days! But how can you have a workable contingency if you don't contemplate the possible outcome?

If a mayor can act in this way then what kind of power and havoc can a POTUS do?

It's times like these that make me wonder if infomagic is a polly.

Mike

=====================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), December 02, 1999.

Ed,

We thought the herd would have woken up by now. We have reams of data on our desks, studies, reports, minutes, etc. Beyond dumbed down more like numbed down and disbelief. Lets face it, folkes get in denial with heart conditions and eat fatty food and won't exercise. Diabetics continue to eat sugary foods. Y2K = denial^2. This cannot happen and therfore it won't.

In answer to your question, when it gets personal, real personal. Scenario follows: Average Joe has heard of Y2K doesn't think too much about it, thinks I'll get some water and whatnot on 29-31 Dec typical last-minute-sam shit. Well human nature being what it is and procratination a way of life in the USA we have the snow-storm effect. Typical in Dee Cee and elsewhere "Hey there is snowstorm (3 inches) I'll go get a gallon of milk, some eggs, and a loaf of bread" Happens everytime and every year and guess what the store is sold out. "Okay I'll just get some take-out"

They won't get it until the power is out, the heat is off, and they are hungry.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 02, 1999.

picked this up here

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001uMw

-------------

"Last night I heard a live interview on public access T.V. (Madison WI)with the director of the Center. He was very concerned as he had a bus load of protestors at the old Naval Base (being used as a temporary prison) surrounded by Seattle police with gas masks who were about to gas the bus because the protestors refused to disembark for processing. One of the protestors on the bus had a cell phone and was calling the Center providing updates and pleading for help. The center director was tried to get lawyers from the Lawyers' Guild on the scene, but they were denied access to the Naval Base. My understanding is the Seattle Police DID gas the bus. The outcome unknown at the time.

I hope the lawsuits bankrupt the City of Seattle.

-- NOtoWTO (NOtoWTO@everywhere.net), December 02, 1999

-----------

What the hell is going on in this country?

Mike

===========================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), December 02, 1999.

I know a person who recently worked for Warner Bros. and was responsible for Y2K readiness. Was a total DGI regarding personal preps. Spouse had to argue for every prep taken at home. Spouse was the one who read articles and passed them on to the one 'responsible' at Warners, hoping the articles would get read.

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), December 02, 1999.

Michael or somebody, help us out here and tell us what "POTUS" means. It's not in the Military Dictionary.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 02, 1999.

A&L POTUS is Pres of the United states. After reading this thread i know i must be nuts. Either that or 99.99% of the rest of the population is. the odds do not seem well for my side.

-- None (Noone@none.co), December 02, 1999.

Thanks, None! Seems so obvious when explained. But never want to jump to conclusions, especially in the baffling world of .mil.

We only watch TV if there's an earthquake, tornado -- something like that, or something specifically recommended by a Yourdynamite. No TV = brain still functioning. Don't wanna get polluted by the mass dumb down meme.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 02, 1999.

I don't know what POTUS means. Hmmm, let's take a guess. In Latin the word potens, potentus means power. We get words like potentate from it...Could it be referring to Clinton?

-- Marsha (MSykes@court.co.macon.il.us), December 02, 1999.

marsha: POTUS means President Of The United States, Clinton. :) Hope that helps! :)

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), December 02, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

President of the United States

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 02, 1999.

Hey Ed Y. Hable Espaneola amigo?

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), December 02, 1999.