http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=12154263

Very interesting post from SI. Check out the link at the end. News artilce on the purpose of the emergency powers now being used.

"To: hunchback who started this subject From: ole 49r Wednesday, Dec 1 1999 11:10AM ET Reply # of 157

Anyone besides me see the wonderful y2k practice exercise going on in Seattle as I type this AM? 1) Coast Guard Shut down the port...ALL OF THEM, not just a little teensy off the beaten path pier out at the end of the jetty.

2) Curfew was declared by the Mayor. For those of you who don't remember the Eugene Register Guard** legit newspaper coverage posted on SI a mere few months ago, yes, I still have it on hard drive where they declared all up and down I-5 Mayors and City Councils were quietly voting in unprecedent mayoral authority to do unprecedented things in the name of Y2K chaos. Ayup, all this has been quietly slipped through ALL 1-5 lining cities from Seattle up on the North End of I-5's military highway successively marching south down through San Diego, in all cities. This CURRENTY EMERGENCY DECLARATION is the FIRST SUCH emergence of said heretofore unwielded mayoral power in this fiercely independent region of the West Coast, U.S.A.

3) The Gov then declares an emergency (NOT A DISASTER...that is a different set of rules...we must now listen for the languaging of EMERGENCY as opposed to DISASTER declarations.) That is what will happen Y2K...EMERGENCY DECLARATIONS allowing Clinton to set aside the Constitution, post-pone elections, call down the military upon the civilian populace...not just the Nat'l Guard....trrrrrrust me, all using the not so secret anymore PDD's.

Listen up, people!!!

4) The National Guard is marching in today---nope, not last night...the Seattle Police Force had the "rioters" corralled last night very niftily...but today the NG is being marched in??? ...right into the heart of Seattle's business district ...right below very corner office of MY broker's location ...yep, see the tanks? ...see the troops march? ...see Spot Run??? ...fun view from the plush corner office, eh?

The reason for this emergency? PROTESTING against the WTO, and China in particular. Could it be that Clinton will get "his" today?

Yep, Y2K practice, live and in living color for those of you pre-occupied with mo-mo plays and last minute holiday shopping.

We're having a Y2K Drill "right here in River City" and the stockmarket goes up, blissfully up, ever spiralling up, so that most Americans NOT living out here continue watching "the blue light special BIRDIE"

GOD HELP US NOW let alone in less than 29 days, when!

Now, tell me again why the Coast Guard and the Nat'l Guard are in Seattle???? It isn't for lack of food, water, power, telephone, sewer, and/or fuel. It isn't ecause of some rioters were stealing TVs for the KING TV syndicated news gatherers, right? But because some locals don't like the Chinese, Clinton, or handing over the Panama Canal.

Wonder who will be called out when we "protest" serious things... after the TV's are all stolen? after the sewer backs up into the house? after the food in the refrig is spoiled because of no power? after your phone doesn't "break dialtone?" or is dead? afterthe water is poisoned by too much chlorine added all at once? after the busses, let alone cars don't run b/c you can't buy gasoline? after the shelves are stripped of their JIT 2 day food "rations?" after phoney phiat is worthless OFFICIALLY?

O/49r

**http://www.registerguard.com/news/19990721/1c.cr.martiallaw.0721.html "

-- ng (cantprovideemail@none.com), December 01, 1999

Answers

Give me a break. I've watched hours of this stuff. The national guard was called out because out of thousands of non-violent protesters there were a handful of hoodlums who smashed the windows out of a lot of stores in the downtown core. They set dumpsters on fire, tons of other stuff that caused harm to people they don't even know.

No shit the national guard, their mothers, everyone was called in to help with the situation yesterday.

Now today the President is here and that calls for extra security, always has always will. So especially after what the hoodlums took it upon themselves to do last night the security is tight. The protesters are really pissed off at the people who were smashing store windows. They aren't pissed off at the guys in uniform trying to keep the stores from being looted.

I was fortunate to view this stuff without the spin. The spin I've seen from both sides really makes me think twice about all the Y2K stuff I read too.

-- Puget Sounder (LiveHereToo@in.seattle), December 01, 1999.

An unusually poor post from Silicon Investor. The membership there tend to be more sophisticated than O/49r ranting would indicate. Raving lunatics drawing parallels between disparate events are everywhere--stiff monthly membership fee aside.

-- surprised and saddened (surprised@saddened.net), December 01, 1999.

yessirree tis a dress rehearsal practice exercise for What Comes Down The Pike

-- not just Seattle (global@Y2K.meltdown), December 01, 1999.

Yes, I remember well how shabby I was treated back in the 60's when I had the nerve to question why the blacks had to drink out of a different fountain at Sears. I was called a hoodlum for standing up for my fellow man. Now when people want to protect from exploitation the environment, little kids and jobs from money mad CEO's in the Fortune 500 corporations, who rake in millions in subsidies, tax breaks and rape the worlds natural resources, they are once again called hoodlums.

I am not an isolationist. But until corporations have to answer to the same laws as the average man in the street, then I'm against the WTO, NAFTA and GATT.

Puget Sound take a look at the real world. I thought it was a right to protest. As Garrison said about slavery, "on this subject I will not be moderate."

-- gale (guide@earthling.net), December 01, 1999.

Gale, what I was calling "hoodlums" were not peacefully asking questions of anyone, they were throwing large heavy objects through dozens of store windows. Back in the 60's were you throwing boulders through the store windows? The hoodlums I'm talking about numbered about 150 when I was watching. The protesters, whom I applaud, and whom you can identify with from your days in the 60's, numbered over 30,000 and they used their voices not weapons. They were not, I repeat not hassled by the national guard or the police. And their voices were heard, and they managed to shut down the WTO meeting yesterday, which was a success and again I aplaud. I repeat, the hoodlums were a handful of people ruining things for the thousands of protesters who have been planning this for months.

-- Puget Sound (Inseattle@now.today), December 01, 1999.

I live in the NorthWest as well. The Mayor and the police were TOO tolerant. They genuinely tried to allow the protests, and during the day the protests were largly peacefull.

At night 200 thugs trashed the city, set fires, and even stole rinky dink 5 dollar bags of coffee beans from Starbucks.

I only wish they had the manpower to arrest these people.

I am very much opposed to the WTO, these 200 bums put a bad face on the intent of the protests (no child labor, prision labor, job exports, etc..).

The police acted correctly (and I'm usually one to criticize facist measures..)

Bryce

-- Bryce (Bryce@nospam.com), December 01, 1999.

LA Riots. Remember the LA Riots. 55 people died. Bush did NOTHING for days: stores burning like crazy, Reginald Denny dragged from his truck and beaten to within an inch of his life, Koreans taking pot shots at looters, firemen being shot, looters dragging off everything, me sitting at the TV set saying: where the hell is the National Guard. AFter millions of dollars of damage (and a permanent alienation in millions of middle-class TV viewers), Bush announces he will send LA millions of my tax dollars. LA? And Seattle gets the NG after a few broken windows? Let's see how long the NG carries out it's dry run....the newer, friendlier repackaged NWO guard without "guns".

-- TIshaminga (steverromano@aol.com), December 01, 1999.

If Y2K is bad I think there may be riots big time.

Yes, I too wonder what the second wave of riots will be like during Y2K. The first wave being those who are just out to steal goods and cause mayhem. The second being --the millions strong wave-- by ones who were lied to and as a result suffer life changing loss. The ones the congressional Y2K laws did not cover for loss to their finances.

WHO WILL BE MADE TO PAY FOR THE LIES - that caused the deaths, suffering and financial loss to so many millions or billions?

Yes, I too wonder; who will be called to quell the second wave of riots re: your comment below--

"Wonder who will be called out when we "protest" serious things... after the TV's are all stolen? after the sewer backs up into the house? after the food in the refrig is spoiled because of no power? after your phone doesn't "break dialtone?" or is dead? afterthe water is poisoned by too much chlorine added all at once? after the busses, let alone cars don't run b/c you can't buy gasoline? after the shelves are stripped of their JIT 2 day food "rations?" after phoney phiat is worthless OFFICIALLY?"

WHO WILL BE MADE TO PAY? If THE goverment, whomever it ends up being, fails to exact legal justice, will the people raise a call "blood for blood" to exact justice? It scares me to think what millions who are full of grief and loss will do.

WHO WILL BE MADE TO PAY?

Obo

-- Obo (susanwater@excite.com), December 01, 1999.

See also this link, discussing "Agent provocateurs".

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001t cx

-- (not@now.com), December 01, 1999.

The national guard was called out because out of thousands of non-violent protesters there were a handful of hoodlums who smashed the windows out of a lot of stores in the downtown core. They set dumpsters on fire, tons of other stuff that caused harm to people they don't even know.

Yes, indeed, violent and opportunistic folks looking for any old cloak to throw on in order to hide among the legitimate "non-violent" demonstrators. However uncomfortable I am with crystal-ball-gazing I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that during any mass movements of people (like a demonstration, or an evacuation) we will expect to see folks who like to throw things, burn things, and steal things. Depending on your perspective it exemplifies badly trained people (as to acceptable behavior), or people well-trained to survive on the street in their chaotic world.

Pick your perspective, and remember always to keep an eye out for low-flyin' crazies.

--She in the sheet upon the hilltop,...

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), December 01, 1999.

We see it. And - hyperbole and arguments about who started it aside - I'm even starting to believe it. :(

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), December 02, 1999.

ng

Just had to comment that Seattle is known as the Emerald City if I am not mistaken.

I have never heard of Seattle as the "River City".

""We're having a Y2K Drill "right here in River City""

There are complex problems on the west coast, you may want to be clear about what you talk about.

IMHO Seattle was lucky.

I call it democracy in action.

I think that Seattle is going to make it through the roll over much better than most cities.

This is a personal view from a Canadian that puts up with Seattle :o)

Wish they had a NHL Hockey team, then there would be some attitude * VBG*

-- Brian (imager@home.com), December 02, 1999.

Brian and others here.

I think the point of this is that municipal, state and federal governments have organized themselves over the past year or so that they pulled off this declaration of an emergency and coordination of forces in 24 hours to control a city.

I don't think there has been enough time pass to judge whether the WTO and internationalism is a good thing or a bad thing. Certainly there are hooligans smashing windows who are bad and needed controlling.

I have read the comments of Ole 49er for a couple of years and she appears to me to be a contrarian, and sometimes ornery, but she is very intelligent. I believe that the perceptions of intelligent people which are contrary to your own deserve careful consideration.

p.s. "right here in River City" is a line from a musical.

-- ng (cantprovideemail@none.com), December 02, 1999.

You people act like this is the first time the NG has ever been called into a city. Or the first time martial law has ever been imposed. This isn't a "Y2K test". This is the mayor of Seattle trying to save his city from an LA event. Stupid doomers....

-- Freethinkr (ima@nut.com), December 02, 1999.

No, Puget I never broke a window in my life deliberately. But I think it would be a good idea for some of you to read Green Rage by Christopher Manes. There are incidents, documented in the book, where hoodlums and thugs were hired by the opposition (corporations) to make the environmentalists, or other protesters look bad, so that the public, who generally only get their information from TV, would believe that all enviornmentalists or all protesters were destructive criminals.

This has been part of a program called "greenwashing" since Rachel Carson's book Silent Spring was published. At that time corporations hired Madison Avenue suits to make her look bad and even tried to stop publicatioin of her book. The big chemical companies paid for the whole thing. Better take off your rose colored glasses.

Also, I watched a riot in a major city when I was a teenager. It was winding down, actually fizzling out, until the cops charged in and started banging heads and throwing people to the ground, and then it became a free for all.

In one protest over cutting old growth rain forests, the two opposing sides joined together to run the thugs out of town. The loggers and enviro's saw what was happening and ran the rabble rousers out.

-- gale (guide@earthling.net), December 02, 1999.

It's gotten so bad that RESIDENTS are being sprayed in their own NEIGHBORHOODS !

http://www.seattle-PI.COM/local/meet01.shtml

Police, protesters clash on second night of curfew
Police beef up presence; hundreds arrested
Wednesday, December 1, 1999
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER STAFF
(Last updated 2:10 a.m. Thursday, Dec. 2)

With downtown Seattle under a 7 p.m.-to-dawn curfew for the second night, confrontations between police and protesters continued in other parts of the city.

For a second night, demonstrators, residents and police clashed on Capitol Hill. Police tried to scatter the crowd with tear gas, flash bombs and pepper spray.

Residents stood on street corners and shouted at police and National Guard troops to leave their neighborhood.

"Go home," the crowds chanted. "We live here."

But the police didn't leave.

A handful of residents shouted insults at the police and threw fireworks at them about 10 p.m. Police responded by spraying residents with pepper spray and tear gas -- without warning. They chased some down side streets, where more officers were waiting.

The confrontations followed a 90-minute demonstration by residents and protesters alike, who marched back and forth on Broadway Avenue, a popular retail and nightlife strip on top of Capitol Hill.

After the confrontation, a new standoff began as a large group of residents and protesters blocked the street outside the East Precinct at 12th and Pike on Capitol Hill. At 12:43 a.m. police ordered the crowd to disperse, warning that chemical irritants would be used if they did not obey. The crowd gradually thinned out over the next hour, but many remained.

Note: The most recent coverage of the protests has moved to a different article.

Just before 1:50 a.m., police used tear gas and concussion grenades to disperse the crowd. The street was clear in less than five minutes.

NorthWest Cable News reported that King County Councilman Brian Derdowski was present at the scene to try and negotiate a peaceful resolution to the standoff.

Skye Farr heard the tear gas explosions from her apartment and wandered outside to see what was going on.

Farr, who said her father is a Seattle police officer, yelled at the police to leave. "I almost became one of you. I understand you're doing your job, but stop it."

She said she was sprayed with pepper spray.

Tensions were also high at the former Sand Point naval station, where protesters were taken for processing after being arrested downtown. By midnight, As many as 140 protesters refused to get off the buses to be processed.

Earlier in the day, about a dozen people had to be dragged out of Sand Point to be taken to the King County Jail.

The protesters were transported to Sand Point by buses. But at least 150 people refused to get off the two buses which brought them there at noon, and about a dozen had to be dragged out and booked into the King County Jail downtown.

For the second night, downtown Seattle is under a curfew to keep demonstrators from disrupting the World Trade Organization conference that virtually ground to a halt when violence erupted Tuesday. Protests were mostly light and sporadic throughout the day, and any demonstrators who entered a newly imposed no-protest zone near WTO events were immediately arrested.

Late in the day, the Secret Service placed the downtown Westin hotel, where President Clinton is staying during the WTO conference, under lockdown, The Associated Press reported.

Seattle police early today imposed a "demonstration-free zone" around the site of WTO meetings to avoid the scattered vandalism and looting that erupted when police and protesters clashed on the first day of the conference.

The disruptions led to cancellation of the WTO's opening ceremonies and delayed regular WTO meetings Tuesday afternoon, in part because delegates couldn't get to the sessions.

The Seattle Host Organization announced today that a reception for WTO delegates Thursday night at Seattle Center also had been canceled. But Susan Kruller of the host organization did not blame it on the curfew or the protests. Rather, she said, the decision was made "due to the extensive work schedule" of delegates.

But one popular Seattle tradition was canceled because of the curfew: opening ceremonies for the 1999 Christmas Ship Festival.

With the no-protest zone in place and fewer protesters downtown today, WTO sessions proceeded as scheduled, including an address by Clinton.

There also were hundreds of arrests today, many because demonstrators ventured into the no-protest zone.

As the evening rush hour approached, demonstrators -- at times numbering in the hundreds -- picked up their activities and began swarming through areas in and near downtown.

Around 6 p.m., police began making arrests and trying to clear the streets for the curfew. There were altercations between police and protesters near the popular Pike Place Market. Police using tear gas quickly broke up the crowd, which moved to other parts of the city. They had to be out of the curfew zone by 7 p.m. and stay out until sunrise (see map).

As 7 p.m. neared, emotions seemed to cool. Police in armored personnel carriers and on horseback and motorcycles moved protesters north on Fourth Avenue toward the Seattle Center and out of the curfew zone.

At its worst moments Wednesday, the fray resembled the battles of Tuesday.

At Second Avenue and Pine Street, marchers chanted "peaceful protest," when police attacked them with rounds of tear gas, rubber pellets and concussion bombs.

Smoke, panic, screams and the sound of shattering glass filled the air. With one hand, protesters grabbed the shoulder in front of them. With the other, they covered their mouths.

The tear gas was so strong that non-protesters were forced against the store-front windows. The gas spread quickly, gagging bystanders caught in the traffic and melee.

John Bowling of Eugene, Ore., helped those affected by pouring bottled water into their eyes and giving them vinegar-soaked rags to inhale.

"I just saw the riot cops jump in front of the crowd and let (tear gas) it go," said Bowling, 30, wearing an orange vest proclaiming him a medic. "It's like martial law."

[ More ]
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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 02, 1999.

Yep, there were a few rabble rousers. Yes they needed to be disciplined for vandalism. But unfortunately, police have been spraying and kicking the s*** out of peaceful (non-violent) protesters and innocent bystanders alike. This just confirms my suspicions. Some (not all) cops are pigs.

-- coprolith (coprolith@fakemail.com), December 02, 1999.

This is not a reply, but another question. Does anyone know how or why Seattle was selected as the site for this pow wow? Was there a raffle? Did several potential sites draw straws, and Seattle got the short one?

If "they" wanted to hold an orderly conference, wouldn't they have picked a more remote, inaccessible location? Like Tonga, Seychelles, or Orca Island? It's harder to demonstrate when there isn't a single location at which to congregate. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but the whole show does have the appearance of a premeditated effort to discredit the opposition (to WTO), and provide an opportunity to rehearse a Y2k scenario.

Assuming that the reports in this thread are accurate, why would the police/sheriffs/guardspersons follow the protestors into residential areas, unless they intended to provoke a violent reaction? Perhaps they failed to consider the impact of their actions in a neighborhood of inactivists. Perhaps this is all a big mistake

-- juswonderin (from@down.so), December 02, 1999.

The reports just getting more outrageous, the far fringe of Forum discussions this past year becoming reality:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/World/Americas/curfew031299.shtml

24-hour curfew is imposed in Seattle

By Andrew Gumbel and Andrew Marshall in Seattle

3 December 1999

With street battles between protesters and riot police still going on, the mayor of Seattle imposed a 24-hour curfew on the city centre yesterday.

Paul Schell said that only people on official business would be allowed into a 46-block area around the centre where the World Trade Organisation is meeting. The curfew will last until the official end of the WTO meting tomorrow.

"Our responses will be swift," Mr Schell said. "Anybody who engages in improper behaviour will be dealt with."

More than 500 people have already been arrested during the week of violence in the city. Civil liberties groups reacted in outrage to what is the first such round-the-clock curfew since the Second World War, when Seattle ordered Japanese citizens off the streets before interning them.

"I have never encountered anything like this in a US city and I hope never to again," said Mike Dolan, of the protest group Global Trade Watch. The American Civil Liberties Union said it would challenge the "no protest zone" in the federal court as it infringes Americans' rights to free assembly and free speech.

The success of the talks themselves was in the balance last night, with officials warning that unless concessions were made on agriculture, labour standards and other issues, a deal could slip away. The chaos that surrounded the meeting on Tuesday helped to set back early progress.
----------------------------------------------------

Unbelievable. Buses, military prisons, spraying neighborhood residents with chemicals, declaring spur-laws willy-nilly, choosing a business-type delegation who may cause global harm over the tax-paying citizens of the city, putting their boots on demonstrator's faces, dragging peaceful people, poking slapping hitting sticking shoving spraying stomping lobbing shooting gassing herding Seattle assemblers.

Just imagine how .gov will react when ppl rightfully assemble to say "We're cold and hungry."

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 02, 1999.