I was thinking of my small town and what would happen to the small store owners.Could they stay open for business? Some could put a pot belly stove in and use kerosene lamps,like they did in the olden days of the West.If they had alot of windows the oil lamps may not even be needed during the day.Use the non electric cash registers.That's just in a small town.

What type of business do you see that will still be able to keep their doors open for business If the electricity is off for awhile,without using a generator?

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 28, 1999

Answers

those businesses whose CUSTOMERS don't require power, heat, or gasoline. Sort of limits the customer base. Taz

-- Taz (Tassie123@aol.com), November 28, 1999.

None, nada, zip. no electricity, no gasoline or diesel fuel. My business for one will be toast if there is no fuel for the heavy equipment to run on or commerce in general.

-- dozerdoctor (dozerdoc@yahoo.com), November 28, 1999.

Gunsmiths?

-- (Ladylogic@aol.com), November 28, 1999.

Not to mention inventory. Where to get all the widgets that are normally stocked in the widget boutique?

-- (gidget@widget.budget), November 28, 1999.

I guess by stores you include things like barber shops and drug stores. The thing is most Drug stores are Corp. owned and the Corp. office may not let them be open due to liabilities. You would need a water source for barber shop otherwise you can do it by the window with a chair. I don't see things like card shops, nail salons, dry cleaners and electonics shops and such being opened. What use would they be unless you have a large supply on crank or solar inventory, then sit it by the window cord off the rest of the store and go at it :-)

The thing is how are they going to restock if transportation is shut down or the manuf. plants are closed and there is no fuel to transport the inventories of plants or get raw goods to plants? How are the reapers of raw goods going to "harvest" or smelt etc.

It really depends on how bad things are for how long in what area's.

If there is no power for three days the stores may just stay shut. If the power is out over a week AND the gov. officials have been able to maintain the order and there are no riots then some business could try a work around with difficulty buying locally.

I mean in case of emergency a baker who has four CAN set up brick ovens outside in the parking lots or grass area around their plants gather firewood and cook bread and cinnimon rolls (gotta have those :-) or they could build ovens out of rocks covered in turf or covered in clay heat the rock or adobe ovens constant fire for a day and a half and then bake bread in them on a smaller scale but it would be bread. Not the "normal" way of doing thing and most likely breaks every health requirement in the books but in an emergency who knows. This could be done on a small scale at every groc. store that was not wiped out that still had flour and some bottled water or water brought in.

So many things affect what you can do; each situation would have to be judgement call of the people running the operation.

I truly think with creative thinking and using materials at hand much can be done to get a small marketing area in each town up and operational within a week IF the locals want to work at it.

With not power the big manuf. plants can not operate as normal but unless technology is prime in the manufacture of the actual goods they are producing they can work around it in time. One major problem the may have is if the banking system does fail who will get paid for doing the work so who would continue to do it without a financial reward? Eventually you are going to run out of raw materials to produce your product from what I studied in college most companie today with JIT inventories do not have more than three days worth of raw materials with which to produce product. Some companies do not even have a full days worth, some plants get every three hours shipments to keep the assy. lines moving. We had many serious discussions on the wisdom of this in class :-) I could see the financial reasons on why they did it but it was just to close to the edge of destruction to me and I did not even know about Y2K years ago.

If the power is going to be out an extended period in most of the country then to survive we will have to have as a top priority a transportation system. Without that we can not even live like the 1800's for a short time, they did have pony express and wagons, ships and and pack mules but they had transportation servers for the community and country. I think that would be a number one priority to get started.

MOST business today are not useful in an economy that is there for survival which would be the case so they would die it it is extended. BUT what most people chose not to look at is there are others who can START new businesses on a local level that will eventually spread out.

Another thing -- What do you use for a medium of exchange?

BARTER for goods or service, OLD USA COINS and wellll :-) you could use some of my - clay OBO'S :-)

-- Onebyone (susanwater@excite.com), November 28, 1999.

Bartending and prostitution,the classics.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), November 28, 1999.

Onebyone,after reading your post,you could be a community leader showing people how to do things another way,a way to still go on til we can get things back on track.

Zoobie,so that's why you wanted to know how to make "beverages".An occupation that will always be in demand.

I had thought of used clothing stores,used book stores,consignment stores and when summer comes small local farmers markets,even if they had to use horse and cart to bring it there.Maybe people using more bikes with baskets,hitching post for the horses,that the people who live in rural areas coming to town could use.

If we let our minds go past what we can't do,to what we could,like Onebyone was saying,it would help in the way we approach the future. IMHO that's what we need to focus on.What can we do as a people to better the enviroment(sp?)in which we live.To realise even when things change we still have the strengh within to go forward.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 28, 1999.

Join the National Guard--they'll even "set up" your family on base for safety during the rollover. It's a shame I haven't seen such an offer for our police men, who in my neck of the woods see alot more combat activity than the guard.

-- Hokie (nn@home.com), November 28, 1999.

Our main street lost power yesterday afternoon (i haven't heard the reason yet, probably won't). The burrito vendor that i was on my way to said that they'd only been down for about 1/2 hour by then. He wouldn't sell me any food, even though i could see it still steaming in the trays behind him. Other stores immediately put up Closed signs, and yet other business owners were out turning people away. Funniest thing was the pitch black of the lighting/lamp store. Not one back up generator in action did i see. Will be interesting to see their response to a major power failure of days or more...

-- 99freak (99freak@2000.noway), November 28, 1999.

Gravediggers

-- jeremiah (braponspdetroit@hotmail.com), November 28, 1999.

No stores will be in business. Once they are wiped out, there won't be any trucks coming into their store to restock. If there are any trucks loading at the warehouse they'll be headed for the big cities. If your in a small community don't depend on anything being there for you to purchase for a while. Stop and think for a minute the population of your surrounding community. How many grocery stores are there? Divide the population by the number of stores and that's how many people each store supports. I figure one store in my community supports 15,000 people maybe a little bit more. Now you know why stores restock everyday in some cases. If panic hits here, it would take 1 day to wipe out the entire store because there aren't 15,000 of any one item in the whole store. Went to WalMart today and I browsed by the propane cylinder isle. Completely wiped out, and only 1 propane stove left on the shelf. Low inventory on TP, paper towels, liquid clothes detergent. Also noticed that the price on many items has gone up such as toothpaste, shampoo. No Wally SPAM, and many empty spaces where canned goods are shelved. I don't know if it's related to Y2K, but I have my suspicions.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), November 28, 1999.

Street sweepers and clowns.

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), November 28, 1999.

Butchers, shoemakers, and antique dealers.

-- (Ladylogic@aol.com), November 28, 1999.

The person who can set up a "barter general store" will be the best- positioned for making it during an extended power outage. It's been done before during the Depression. Particularly among the rural population, cash was non-existent but barterable items were at-hand.

My Dad had stories of as a child, taking two dozen eggs to the store to trade for one quart of kerosene, exchanging chickens for a new pair of overalls, trading a ham for a new lamp and bartering walnuts for candy.

I wonder what the exchange rate might be next March?

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), November 28, 1999.

I've got laying hens and a year's worth of feed... I've got a half acre of asparagus... I've got a lot of vegetable seeds, a tractor and gas... I've got fish in my ponds... I've got a lot of firewood...

But I live 29 miles from the nearest town....

-- (Getting@tomarket.com), November 28, 1999.

WW,

I agree,a place to barter would be a great place to have.I was talking to an older man awhile back and he was telling me about the depression and how the city folk would have the sugar,flour and coffee and would come visit relatives in the country to barter their goods for what the farmer had.It worked out good for both of them.

I live in an area where farms surround my small town.I think if people pull together when things get rough we will get by.There are a lot of people here that remember the depression or heard about it from their folks.Hard woking people live in these parts.A lot of people in town have gardens and can their veg. and fruit.People across the street have deer roaming in their backyard,I have possum and cute skunks that come to visit.Really the possum has made his home here under my house and comes out at nite to eat the dry cat food left out.

-- Maggie (song bird@iwon.com), November 28, 1999.

Getting to market,

I heard they use to have trains that made milk runs and would stop at the trains stations to pick up people along the way.Maybe that would start up again.I look for the goverment to take over the railroad and supply it with the fuel it needs to transport essential goods.That's just my opinion.In a way like rationing during the war and having national priorities.

You living 29 miles away from town is good ,but could be just alittle inconvenient.

-- Maggie (song bird@iwon.com), November 28, 1999.

getting to market,

You could get to market but you would have to most likely only do it every two weeks and camp out the night before and the night after market day.

If you do not have a horse then you can use goats as pack animals. If it is not a hilly area you could use an adult tricycle cart like you used to see in oriental countries; they may still have them in some rural areas there.

OR if you have the funds purchase a golf cart with three extra batteries, get three of those solar battery rechargers hook to batteries, get a trailer hooked to cart pack with garden goods and on sunny days you could get to town I think. Not sure how long those batteries last in miles maybe some knows here or check with a country club golf pro shop.

-- Onebyone (susanwater@excite.com), November 28, 1999.

I work at a good-sized nursery. We have woodstoves and several years worth of firewood for backup heat. We have a 20K propane generator with a year supply of fuel. We have back up gas generators. We have a well. We have low pressure drip irrigation and plenty of land. People may not buy petunias if things get tough, but they will buy vegetable plants and vegetables. We'll be in business for awhile at least.

As far as trains go, there are no small town train stations anymore. Most towns around here don't even have the tracks anymore.

-- Sam Mcgee (weissacre@gwtc.net), November 28, 1999.

Towns here have the tracks. We have a museum at the train station. Freight trains run on the tracks. I love trains!

Speaking of barbers, they should be in business. Other skills that can operate without supplies...

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 28, 1999.