Portland, Oregon : Look at the sky!

Everything everybody has been saying. Perfectly clear sunny blue sky. Then line after line after line of plane trails, evenly spaced, covering entire horizon, slowly expanding, fanning out, creating an overcast haze. Saw the planes: jet and flying lower than normal.

Pattern purposeful, extensive, repetitive, all within 10 minutes.

NOT NORMAL

Have to see it to believe it.

-- Ashton & Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999

Answers

This ends our polly half-belief of the chemtrail spraying.

Now they're doing it AGAIN !!!

Unnerving, to say the least.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Uh... get inside!!?

Be well... Ashton & Leska. And keep your heads down.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 28, 1999.

Got a link?

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), November 28, 1999.

See...

I told you so...

www.artbell.com for photo gallery.

-- Art Bell (ArtBell@IToldYou.So), November 28, 1999.

Our Shelter-In-Place kits are being utilized now. Planes still spraying.

So many threads about this; here's 2 recent:

Way out on the Chemtrail Limb

OT: Reporting in.....Chemtrails....AGAIN!

Really have to see it to believe it.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

A and L You're very correct about about this not being normal. But if they are spraying us here in NE.PA. with what I have observed, there should be sone seriously sick plants/animals/humans around here ,to the extent that it would be impossible to cover-up or ignore. Perhaps the mil./gov. folks are engaging in a test run of inoculation/bio-war plans. I don't know but that is one helluva lot of air pollution if nothing else. Check out my response to the previous chemtrail thread below for another possible explanation. And still today no contrails - NONE AT ALL : unusual given the skies around here for the past 5 months. And thanks for all your interesting posts. I have found you folks to be a valuable asset for my own preps for and orientation toward y2k.

JR.

-- JR.MINT (duckand@cover.net), November 28, 1999.

Thank you, Jr. Mint. At the moment the planes have stopped. Thin streaks of haze, some milky blue spots.

Just got an eMail that Robert Theobald passed on this morning :-(

Anybody else in this neck of the woods looked out their window earlier?

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Ashton & Aleska, I've kept quiet on this subject in the past because I too only "half believed" the posts on chemtrails. About two weeks ago, I personally saw the same thing over Hancock County, Mississippi (on the Gulf Coast). I didn't get out any of my bio-chem stuff because the prevailing winds -- and visual tracking of the trails -- indicated that it was going to land in Harrison County to my east (the location of the Gulfport-Biloxi metro area). Very strange stuff to say the least and naturally, not a word out of the media.

Good luck

Doc

-- T.H. "Doc" Toups (ttoups@aol.com), November 28, 1999.

I've been photographing the chemtrails since january. I have pics of the planes (with red tail sections, NSA birds) from Ojai Santa Barbara Southern Utah (Dixie NF) LA OC San Diego Colorado

They are Real. They are death from above.

-- Rickster (rickvester@yahoo.com), November 28, 1999.

Ashton & Leska,

Confirm on the clear blue skies. I'm "just down the street" from you.

There is a post on Gary Norths' site about Eugene Emergency Powers Ordinance (under catagory Martial Law). The post states similar ordinances have been passed by several Oregon cities including Portland. There are posts mentioning new 'towers' being built along the interstates there and decals or markers being placed on interstate signs that are new (out of site unless carefully observed) that have a color code and numbering system. There are posts of National Guard builups/intense training/equiping here and elsewhere. There are posts of "massive troop movements". There are posts of new regulations regarding (armed) service personnel being in jeopardy if they talk of service related activities now taking place. There are posts of Emergency Broadcast testing with new wording and a great increase in the number of them. There are posts regarding confiscation of firearms and means of self-protection. Posts of evacuation plans and on and on and on. I was going to write of how the local TV station was going to do a series about being prepared for biological warfare 'terrorism' on Monday. Of course there is also the Executive Orders written and re-written by our current ______.

There are no doubt a plethora of would-be posts that haven't been made because of fear, or because there are always replies alluding to the 'kookiness' of what would be posted and personal attacks taken to the extreme (a good indication of what man is like).

If a person were to take a good look at all of these indications-the "forest" rather than the "tree"-it is very clear that the population is being set up for something of a large magnitude involving not just this country, but whole areas of the world.

It would seem that the 'computer problem' aka Y2k is a small thing, wouldn't it. Perhaps not a problem, but an opportunity for... for what is coming.

There has been a Hitler, a Nero, a Stalin, a Ghengis Khan, a Mao Tse-Tung and so many more. There will be another one too. Death and destruction are not something man does. It is something man is.

But... I know this is happening to you right now and YOU are important. I want to mention one thing that I have never seen mentioned as far as preps and making sure you have one.

Get a Bible. Read it. Before that too is illegal.

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), November 28, 1999.

Thanks maid. Yep we have a Bible -- 4. What a read *that* is! Can only take small doses at a time. Violent and tumultuous. Are you close enough down the street to have seen the streaks? Looked like the sky had been turned into a parking lot.
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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Got sprayed last spring down the valley here in Eugene.Developed very mild flu-like symptoms and a persistant cough.Haven't needed viagra since.....weird!

-- Alfred E (what@meWorry.com), November 28, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California My ChemTrails Page

I have often wondered whether it would make some sense to bug out, NOW, from anywhere that is getting these sprays, since we're perhaps in the expendable group, here. However, I don't know of any way to know what places are not getting sprayed. It could well be that most places are getting it, but that people just don't see what is right before their eyes. I have pointed them out to my husband and my parents and they just look at me like I'm crazy. Unfortunately, when they've been around only boarderline obvious ones are being laid down. My son, on the other hand does see it every time. They are growing more frequent.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), November 28, 1999.

A and L--

I have seen the trails in Sonoma County. I thought I was being silly, not really seeing it, seeing it for more than it was worth etc.

Reading between the chemtrail lines.

I have seen many jet-trails, my dad was stationed at China Lake in the seventies and at Miramar Naval Air Station in the 80's. I have never seen cross-hatch till this fall.

Love your post Ashton and Leska - all the best to you and yours!

-- cross-hatch (karlacalif@aol.com), November 28, 1999.

Dear Ashton & Leska,

Negative on the sightings. Live in a low population area. There is someone dear to me nearer you though, and I have stepped out the door to check the 'beautiful blue skies'-minus the expected rains due Monday.

I wrote up a small list of details I know of that I haven't seen posted before, but at this time adding more details is near meaningless, not to mention the scoffers who would reply.

Sorry this reply took so long. Had to get another browser up and I have a slow computer. BTW, is your address real? That's an invitation to e-mail in case you didn't know.

Where is Billy-Boy? Hey, Diane!! What happened? You were going to call that radio station to get info about the Emergency Broadcasts... and Thanks Diane too.

ps:My best friend is a commanding officer in one of the armed services. It doesn't look good.

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), November 28, 1999.

Yes, it's hard to completely believe until it happens in your own sky. And to those of you who have yet to experience it, please spare us the explanation about jets having vapor trails behind them. This is differnet.

-- Pearlie Sweetcake (storestuff@home.now), November 28, 1999.

Thanks Karla! Been watching you get your sea legs on the Forum and enjoying it very much :-)

Maid, please post your small list of details -- naturally at this point we are VERY interested and any and all observances / knowledge IS increased power. Thanks. Also, more on your best friend's tidbits please. *begging prettily*

Our eMail is real BUT we are terrible about checking and responding to eMail -- just too overloaded, had to make a decision where we'd focus, chose TB2K, can't even keep up with that. Owe lotsa wonderful folks on here lots of eMails *hiding in shame*

eMails, round-robins, ListServs, BBs, newsgroups, chats, etc -- all proliferating, overwhelming. Swamped with info, eyes hurt, retinas probably ready to short out, brain 'n bod protesting, bank account depleted -- going to heck in a handbasket just getting ready for The Great Unknown ;^)

And now we can't even go out and get more used to our mountain bikes because on the FINALLY clear day the sky is filled with Who Knows What?

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Excuse my farm girl mentality. Am I reading this right? Most of you believe our government is spraying us with a stuppor type chemical to keep us all in control....I have gone back and read some of the other threads, but I just can't seem to get my mind around this...Maybe it's something to protect us from chemicals plant malfunctions. Has any one analyzed the soil, plant life or animals in the areas that are being sprayed.. I haven't seen any of this here in West Texas or heard any reports.. This is scaring the Hell out of me....

-- Marli (can'tget@it.duh), November 28, 1999.

Dear Ashton & Leska,

I just finished breakfast and logged on to catch up on the forum...saw your thread about how you were being sprayed. I'm so truly thankful you have posted your "Shelter in Place" how-to's and are using your kit now.

I've been very ill for the past 3 weeks, as has my daughter and my husband's stepmother. We've all had a very severe, persistant upper respiratory tract infection.

We've all had at least 2 rounds of different antibiotics -- Biaxin, Zithromax, Doxicycline, to name a few -- not to mention that we've all been extremely diligent with extra rest, lots of vitamin C, echinacea, goldenseal, etc.

My stepmother in-law has had this since mid-September, daughter's had it for going on 4 weeks, and I'm at the 3 week mark.

None of us has ever had problems of this nature.....before now. My Mom is a Nurse Practitioner (semi-retired) and has remarked that she's heard of lots of folk suffering with what seems to be the same thing. My sister-in-law seems to be coming down with the exact same thing; her symptoms appeared the day before Thanksgiving.

The curious thing about all this is that, with the exception of the severe congestion, shortness of breath, etc., we do not exhibit any other symptoms to suggest that we've caught a strain of the flu.

We all had our flu shots early, are scrupulous about handwashing, etc., and limit our exposure as best we can with crowds, etc. No fever amongst us, no achy joints, painful-to-the-touch skin,....just a very tenacious, slow to resolve URI, plus the incredible fatigue that goes with coughing night and day.

It started off with the mucous being very thick, colored (but not green or yellow...more of a tan) in the upper lobes; it's since lost the color, but has settled in the lower lobes...to compound matters, our very excellent physician has been out of town during most of this and we've all had to rely on a substitute doc who doesn't 'know' that we don't usually have these types of lingering episodes.

Chest X-rays don't reveal pneumonia or anything else out of the 'ordinary' that would cause us to all be so sick for so long. We're all usually a pretty healthy bunch and respond to treaatment quickly.

I tell you this because my husband and I have seen a marked increase in the spraying here in __________. I, too, was quite a skeptic about the spraying until I saw it with my own eyes one day in late August. I've lived here all my life, as has my husband, and he's an airplane afficionado - looks at the sky and notices planes and their bonafide contrails more than the average person. He knows these are different.

It's a very unsettling feeling, isn't it, when you *do* see something you previously thought was an outlandish conspiracy theory with your own eyes?? We're not prone to be gullible and believe everything we read on the Internet...yet, there they were/are...It gives us the willies.

We've not seen any residue from any of the spraying we've noticed. I'd say we've seen definitive evidence of the spraying at least 10 times (full grid) since August; many more days we've seen the after effects: large, puffy clouds dissipating from what looks like a criss-cross pattern.

PLEASE take care of yourselves!!! I'm deeply saddened that this is happening. I truly want to know WHY? And, of course, WHAT??

Saying prayers for you both ...

-- from a forum regular (seen@it.also), November 28, 1999.

You have to see it to believe it. Well, neither I nor anyone I know has seen such an event but too many of you have for it to be nothing. Please help the rest of us to grasp this concept by addressing the following:

(1). What would you suggest is the purpose of this spraying?

(2). Has anyone in a large population area seen these geometric chemtrails?

(3). How could this take place without the mainstream press picking up it?

(4). Has anyone called the authorities to ask about this?

Just asking here so dont mistake this as negative. Why not call the local newspaper when you saw the trails?

In closing, if this proves to have Viagra type after effects, how does one order-up a localized spray program?

-- Ready (4@it.com), November 28, 1999.

This last year, spraying over the U.S. and other countries has intensified dramatically. I have been investigating this by reading every site, report, rumor and speculation I could find, and by listening to every talk show which mentioned it. Of all the theories (and that's all they are so far) which I have come across, the present offering at www.chemtrails.org makes by far the most sense. This posits that the vast open-air (and awfully obvious) project is not being spoken openly about because it is an effort to protect citizens from an expected bioterrorism attack. Apparently, patents have been developed which would allow for an oil-water mix sprayed over the countryside to cause anthrax and certain other types of toxins to be harmlessly "exploded". Of course, our respiratory systems don't much care for it all the same, and thus the increase in "flu-like" symptoms and other illnesses. In any case, this site offers a rational working hypothesis, which would account for the enormous expense, involvement of large numbers of people who are mysteriously remaining quiet about it, and astonishing number of airplanes at work. I suggest that before we leap to the (understandable) worst case paranoid conclusions, that this relatively new information be entertained. Merak

-- merak (merak@kachina.net), November 28, 1999.

Dancr, for some reason your Links won't take us to your pages.

In September / 1st 1/2 October we had a job on a hill overlooking Portland. Patient sat on balconey much of time. Vast expanse of skies in our view 24/7. Sunny and hot most of the time then. Saw nothing like this at all.

Have been more interested in the sky since Michael Taylor's thread last year got us thinking about chemtrails. They could have spayed many times over this area before, but since it is usually cloudy, foggy, hazy, we wouldn't have noticed.

But today, there was absolutely no mistaking that something very peculiar and UNnatural was making miles-long evenly spaced, close lines turning to waves up there.

Thanks to all who have posted on this thread and the other chemtrail threads, and provided links. Don't know what to think about this, but find it odd and odder.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Its about time! We've needed the antidote for acid rain for some time now!

-- Guy Daley (guydaley@bwn.net), November 28, 1999.

Skies completely clear now. When we first posted it was a BLITZ of these trails, running South to North, literally as far as the eye could see. Within 10 minutes the entire sky was filled with these billowing lines. 10 minutes later it was repeated, an astounding BLITZ. Then nothing, not a single line.

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Spread into a haze but one could still differentiate the "ridges."

Know this is a very busy day at airports but it STOPPED completely.
Too bad we know absolutely zip about military, covert ops, airplanes, all the stuff that might come in handy now for background understanding.

Gotta rely on the rest of you to try to make sense of this.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Marli,

Getting on this board could at first scare anyone. Nothing, wrong with you except FTF (first time fright?). Take time to read through several posts and you will naturally begin to do some of your own sorting out. Let us know what happens then ok?

Ashton & Leska,

Signing off for now. I'll consider posting re: your request, but there is nothing unlike other posts here except maybe this personal one-I've spent a little more than I have trying to prep for 4, 3 of whom will not do anything other than what they usually do, just go to work, take care of responsibilities, eat.... just ordinary 'life' and doing the best you can.

Cory Hamasaki wrote about accepting your death (somewhere at his site, can't remember). I don't know myself about accepting my death, but I know I am not prepping to live-GI?

Freedom; what people love to have really means "I can do what I want no matter what happens to you". =slavery Liberty; What people do not want because of the cost means "I will do what is right because it is right".=(real)Freedom

The Declaration of Independence was written with blood. So was the Bible.

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), November 28, 1999.

It is sooo obvious....they're spraying to erradicate yhe Y2K BUG!!!!!

Our Government....gotta luv em

-- bob brock (bb@myhouse.com), November 28, 1999.

Merak, we know the folks at the paper who "cover" Y2K, and the idea of calling the media about anything to learn the truth evaporated for us during this year as we've watched them deliberately collude to keep information away from the public -- and not think it through seriously themselves.

Haven't called anybody because we have no reason to believe anybody. If the truth about this is out there, it will probably be posted to this Forum first, and never picked up by the media.

We've watched reporters at meetings and interviews. They get the scope 'n scoop, complete with many hard copy handouts and all manner of verification -- and then they proceed to write their "story" with the most inaccurate, imcomplete "ditzy" approach possible.

This year has been very educational.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Here is another side to that story. It is a long read but needs to be taken into consideration.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/culture/urbanlegends/gi/dynamic/offsite. htm?site=http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/swallowtail/619/linesin sky.html

Those Mysterious Lines in the Sky

"Vantage Point"

PREFACE

The article below describes the results from my investigation into the current controversy over allegations that contrails contain substances harmful to humans and the environment. My investigationbegan two years ago and is continuing. It is the distillation of many hours of research and is based on facts and logical analysis from many sources, fully documented and sourced.

I have made this effort in order to discover the truth, which I define as the real state of things that agrees with fact and reality. I understand that I will be attacked for my findings by those whose paradigms are based on beliefs rather than facts. Such is the fate of those who reveal truth which conflicts with other's beliefs.

Reality is often obscured when emotion, rather than facts, are the basis for people's beliefs. I am willing to accept that many people will never believe what I conclude to be the truth. I do not expect anyone to trust my conclusions, but do expect all who value the truth to carefully examine what I have to present. I stand willing to alter my conclusions should new evidence become available. -Jay Reynolds

Those Mysterious Lines in the Sky

This article originally appeared in hard copy form in the national newspaper VERITAS, Issue 21, 3/1/99, page 1. It has been updated and formatted with web links. Reprinted with permission from the publisher.

Over the past several years, many reports of high altitude aircraft emitting unusual contrails have been made. These reports, appearing in print, on radio, and the Internet have generated speculation about the origin, purpose, and effects of these lines which appear to be more numerous over the years. This article will examine the answers to these questions, suggest some explanations for what is being seen, and describe what is not yet known about the subject.

Contrail Formation

The trail seen behind jet aircraft is formed by condensation, much like our breath does when we exhale in cold weather. The difference in contrail formation is that at the altitude that contrails form, temperatures are very low and the condensation droplets rapidly freeze into ice crystals. This occurs mostly in the upper troposphere and the upper stratosphere (5-10 miles high).

The essential conditions for contrail formation are: 1. Hot jet exhaust 2. Ambient air close to saturation with water 3. Altitude sufficient to provide temperature for condensation to freeze, typically below -38C.(1)

Contrails have been observed since WWII, and their persistence(see mission #24) was noted by airmen since they made formation flying difficult.

Contrail Persistence

If a contrail is formed in air of low humidity, the ice crystals will rapidly evaporate, but if the air is saturated enough, the crystals will persist for some time. When winds aloft are calm enough, the contrail will keep its shape, if the wind is strong enough, it will spread out and possibly form a cirrus type cloud.

Under special conditions of higher humidity, the ice crystals may grow from 10-20 microns in size up to 500 microns or larger. At this size, their weight can cause them to fall up to 10,000 feet per hour. These fall streaks can fall for several kilometers from their point of origin, and in rare cases even reach the ground.(2) Normally, the ice crystals will reach an altitude where they evaporate. This same phenomenon occurs in natural clouds, especially cirrus, and is known as mares tails, or virga. These cascading flows of ice crystals, followed by spreading sheets of cirrus clouds so often foretold the approach of a storm front that an ancient sailors rhyme reads:

"Mackerel skies and mare's tails make tall ships set low sails."

Contrail Effects

Since contrails are composed of water in the form of ice crystals, and they often eventually form cirrus type clouds, their effects are the same as natural clouds. Clouds influence our weather both by blocking the suns rays and by absorbing and radiating back heat emitted by the earth itself. Since air traffic is increasing as much as 5% per year, and the traffic is sometimes concentrated into corridors, the local and worldwide climate may be affected.

Over the last decade, NASA has been conducting the Atmospheric Effects of Aviation Project concerned with the possible effects of jet aircraft effluent in the stratosphere, primarily on ozone chemistry, and more recently in the troposphere, including climatic effects of jet aircraft contrails. To address the latter, the Subsonic Aircraft: Contrail and Cloud Effects Special Study (SUCCESS) field experiment was conducted in 1996 using several aircraft and satellites.Effects of jet fuel mixtures on effluent composition and contrail formation were examined for normal jet aircraft representative of the commercial fleet. Effects of contrails as well as ice formation processes in regular cirrus clouds were also investigated. These projects use normal aircraft and fuels to simulate air traffic and measure their effects.(3) The military is probably interested in lessening contrail formation for stealth purposes.

The Controversies

Since 1996, reports have been made about contrails which allege one or more of the following:

1. Military aircraft are spraying biological or chemical agents via contrails and are flying formations which sometimes form odd shapes. 2. A new military jet fuel, JP-8 with additive +100, contains Ethylene dibromide, and contrails formed by this fuel are causing various illnesses. 3. Aircraft are spreading a cobweb type material which causes various illnesses. 4. Military aircraft are conducting weather control experiments, possibly in concert with the HAARP project.

These reports are characterized by little documented or confirmable information, and no material analysis or medical reports have been published. Without documented and confirmable information, these reports can only be considered rumor and speculation. Some analysis of these reports can be made with facts that are known about contrails, aircraft, materials, and physics.

Spraying Via Contrails

As noted before, it is not necessary to have any biological or chemical agents to cause contrails, they are composed of ice crystals, and thus the existence of contrails can neither support or disprove the delivery of such a substance. The purpose of biological or chemical warfare is to disseminate an agent to the land surface, and would be ineffective at the altitude where contrail formation takes place.

In many cases, an agent released at these altitudes, which are typically five miles up or higher, would not be delivered to the ground for hundreds or thousands of miles.(4)

It is not necessary, and would be a general waste of time, to apply a biological agent over the vast miles of sparsely inhabited countryside of this nation. Some reports have come from the east coast, where high altitude spraying of a biological or chemical agent would simply drift out over the Atlantic ocean and affect no one. Common sense and logic would suggest that such an attack would take place at night, and over a populated area, or be carried out at ground level with a contagious agent.

Satellite observations have shown that a cluster of contrails in New Mexico turned into a cloud covering more than 13,000 square miles. The cloud lasted 14 hours and drifted all the way to southern Georgia.(5)

Many agents would degrade or evaporate in the time it would take to fall from such an altitude. Many biological and chemical agents rapidly degrade in sunlight. The wide dispersion of the agent would decrease its effectiveness due to loss of concentration.

Formation Flying

Military aircraft do fly in formation during training and refueling, commercial aircraft do not. Commercial aircraft do fly in regular corridors between destinations, and do therefore sometimes cause parallel contrails. They also could appear to fly in formation while actually being separated by altitude, this not being apparent from the ground. It would be extremely difficult to identify markings or color of aircraft at these altitudes, and many commercial planes are of the same body as military aircraft(DC-10 = KC-10). Since the atmosphere is not consistent at different altitudes or in different locations, contrails can change, start, and stop as an aircraft moves through different air parcels. The random crossing of aircraft in parallel or in different directions, and the changes in contrails during flight can create Xs, Ws and even figure 8 markings in the sky.(6)

JP-8+100 and Ethylene dibromide

The jet fuel additive +100 was developed at the Dayton University Research Institute to improve combustion and reduce maintenance of military aircraft. Dr. Steve Zabarnick, Ph.D., one of the developers, wrote:

JP-8+100 is composed of three components: an antioxidant, a metaldeactivator, and a dispersant. The antioxidant and metal deactivator species are common components that have been present in jet fuels, gasolines, and other petroleum products for many decades. The dispersant is a proprietary formulation of BetzDearborn HPG Inc. Ethylene dibromide is NOT a component of this package and, as far as I know, has never been used in jet fuel.(7)

Ethylene dibromide(EDB) was for several decades used in leaded gasoline to scavenge and prevent lead deposition in automotive engines. It was also used to fumigate soils and grain during storage. Its use in the US was suspended in 1983. EDB is considered highly toxic, carcinogenic, and can affect reproduction. The half-life of EDB is less than 48 hours in rats, chicks, mice, and guinea pigs. EDB has a half-life of 1 day in river water, and about five days in lake water. EDB decomposes when heated or in sunlight and cooking dramatically reduces EDB levels in foods. Plants are unable to take EDB up from soil, thus accumulation is not likely.(8)

Since EDB rapidly vaporizes into a gas, its effectiveness as a chemical agent dispersed at high altitude would be limited. Since it degrades through oxidation reaction when heated, and jet combustion temperatures exceed 1000F, its use as a chemical agent delivered in this way would be worthless.

Cobweb Sightings

A lightweight material resembling cobwebs or accumulations of lightweight stranded material released at five miles altitude would tend to drift long distances and would not be an effective means of dispersing a chemical or biological weapon with any accuracy. An observer sighting such material at ground level could not relate its release with an aircraft release, which would have occurred at a long distance and time away.

Cobwebs do fall from the sky at times, and are the result of natural causes. It is well known that small immature spiders use their silk to provide transportation in migration. These spiders emerge, sometimes in the hundreds, from each egg sack. The phenomenon is widespread in the order Aranea and is thought to be the primary means by which spiders disperse over long distances.(9)

A recent sighting of a "cobweb-like" material was described by Tommy L. Farmer of Jonesborough, TN. The material, which was collected, but not analyzed, was described as "six to eight inches in length and about the diameter of a pencil". It was seen falling to the ground ten minutes after passage nearby of five aircraft emitting contrails at an altitude Farmer estimated at 10-15,000 feet.

In an experiment I conducted, a piece of fiberglass insulation was formed into the shape and size described by Farmer. This material was dropped from several elevated positions and was observed to fall at 2 ft/sec. At this rate of fall, the material would require 5000 seconds(83 minutes) to reach the ground. Thus, Farmer's material would not have been seen at ground level for well over an hour, not within ten minutes, as claimed.

This demonstrates the problem that would be encountered in delivering lightweight substances from high altitudes. The slow descent is further complicated by wind dispersion(scattering), and horizontal displacement(blowing sideways), which tends to carry light material many miles from the point of release and spread it widely.

Weather Control Experiments

It is known that the military is interested in weather modification for defensive and offensive purposes. A program to seed clouds with carbon black(soot) in order to increase cirrus and dissipate fog is scheduled for completion by 2004, $2.5 million is budgeted for this in 1999.(10)

Commercial cloud seeding operations are commonplace, especially in the southwest and plains states. The High Altitude Auroral Research Project(HAARP) is possibly intended for weather modification, but is thought to not be in full operation at this time. Since the HAARP project is designed to affect the ionosphere which is 75 km high, and far above the earths atmosphere, it is not reasonable that aircraft flying within the atmosphere could aid that project. The level of experimentation in weather modification by the military is unknown, and has not been connected with contrails by any proof whatsoever.

Ironically, the relationship between changes in the weather and contrail formation is opposite to the allegations that contrails are formed to influence the weather. Actually, weather conditions favorable for contrail formation are exactly the same as those preceding a storm front, and are the same conditions that cause natural clouds to form. Weather conditions do cause contrails, but contrails do not cause weather.

Origin of the Controversy The earliest record of discussion relative to contrails is an e-mail message to an Internet discussion group, which reads in part: ------------------------------------ From: Richard Finke Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 4:18 PM To: BIOWAR-L@mail.sonic.net Subject: [BIOWAR] LINES IN THE SKIES IDENTIFIED

GENOCIDE ON A WHOLESALE LOT LINES IN THE SKY ARE IDENTIFIED!! SAMPLES Are ANALYZED!!!

The lab director of Aquatech Environmental (a.k.a. AquaTel), Marion, OH, ph., (707) 8872228, using samples taken from JP8 contaminated fields of Maryland and Pennsylvania, reported today (9/18/97) that ethylene dibromide, otherwise known as EDB, has been the contaminate in the fuel and water samples taken of submitted by farmers, pilots and tanker drivers. EDB is one of the most tightly controlled EPA substances and was banned in 1983 due to its carcinogenieity. EDB is a pesticide that apparently is being placed in the jet fuel and dispersed on a daily, almost nonstop basis in our skies. The lines filling our skies are not contrails. The lines are dispersed and may linger for hours, slowly filtering down to unsuspecting pests, and I guess we're the PESTS. ---------------------------------------------------------end

This message is not an analysis, and no analysis is available from Richard Finke, who has admitted that both the lab name and telephone number are false. This false report has been widely circulated by e-mail and still appears on several websites which apparently did not verify its information.

On 1/25/99, talk radio host Art Bell interviewed William Thomas who has written two articles for Lycos Environment News Service that describe his hypothesis that contrails contain either a poisonous substance, a bacterial or viral agent, or a substance being used for weather modification. Most of the people interviewed in his article did not know that the Finke report was false, and Thomas admitted on Art Bells program that no analysis of any material or medical condition is known to exist. http://urbanlegends.about.com/culture/urbanlegends/gi/dynamic/offsite. htm?site=http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/swallowtail/619/linesin sky.html On 1/30/99 Thomas issued an alert which said:

Something huge is going on. In many regions, I can confirm that hospital emergency rooms are filled to overflowing with a sudden epidemic of acute respiratory patients suffering from something doctors cannot diagnose- and that is NOT the flu.....  What is definitely known and verifiable is that thousands, quite possibly tens of thousands of Americans - and perhaps more - are becoming ill enough to seek medical attention after these fly-overs, which are continuing at a stepped-up pace as I write......... This is a national emergency. --------------------------------------------------end

On 2/10/99 William Thomas issued another alert which read:

To: John Hammell From: William Thomas Subject: TAKE COVER IMMEDIATELY John, Tell everyone to STAY INDOORS when contrails are being woven overhead. I've got a BBC photo of a freezer semi filled with dead bodies in England all from sudden respiratory ailments. We're talking (according to the BBC) 6,000 deaths from respiratory failure in two weeks.

People are VERY SICK here. And spraying continues after heavy spraying last Friday over Asheville, Knoxville, Dallas and other US centers. I have this morning received reports of "many deaths" from a "cough that never leaves" in Louisiana.

This is big. This is real. I have positively verified that Emergency Rooms are overflowing with acute respiratory cases from coast to coast.

Doctors are telling the New York Times that this is NOT the flu. People are dying they say far more quickly and at rates far beyond "flu".

The only lab test I have shows JP8 present in soil samples after spraying. The ethylene dibromide in JP8 is banned by the EPA as a known carcinogen and an extremely toxic substance that attacks the respiratory system at very low doses of exposure...................

This is a MAXIMUM RED ALERT for everyone on your list, John. TAKE COVER! Stay indoors during spraying. This is NOT "woowoo". This is NOT a drill. Check my website for updates: http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/index.html Good luck to all of us, William Thomas -------------------------------------------------end

The months of January and February are typically the peak of cold and flu season. By publication time for this article, it will be apparent if indeed a national emergency has taken place.

Possible Motives

Richard Finke, who distributed the false EDB analysis, edited and condensed the book by Larry Wayne Harris entitled, Bacteriological Warfare: A Major Threat to North America. In 1998, Harris pled guilty to wire fraud for fraudulently obtaining vials of bubonic plague. Finke also wrote an article entitled Update On Anthrax 'Cures', Exposure, Vaccine Effectivity, by Ric Finke, LWH Consulting, which he describes as a defensive biowar and disaster recovery consulting firm. In starting the EDB spray rumor, Finke may have been seeking to drum up business for LWH Consulting.

William Thomas sells the USANA brand of vitamin and mineral supplements for sale on his website. Thomas writes:

You don't have to be a Gulf War veteran to be suffering daily effects from Chemical Warfare (CW) exposure. As a frequent writer on environment and health, while researching a major article on chemical sensitivities ,I learned that Multiple Chemical Sensitivity can be triggered by massive repeated low level exposure to oil and other chemical releases. Once you've become "sensitized" to certain chemical or petroleum products such as benzene, chances are you will also be sensitive to things like pesticides, perfumes or the formaldehyde found in abundance in almost every office and home. Anyone committed to recovering, protecting and improving their health should read on.

Thomas goes on to describe how through use his products:

Two years later, I am virtually immune to the flu's and viruses that constantly lay many of my friends low.

A link at Thomas website advertises information on how to order medicines from overseas without a prescription: MEDICINES WITHOUT PRESCRIPTION

Faced with criticism of his hypothesis, Thomas recently has had to rally his flagging followers by saying, Until the lab results are in, lack of "proof" should not obscure an overwhelming preponderance of pattern and precedent.

Other websites that offer products which can protect against contrails are: "HERE" and

One contrail website says: "I am sure the drug companies are selling a lot of drugs, could they be behind this??? ". The same site then goes on to say: "Stock up on vitamins LEF 800841LIFE tell them you were referred by IAHF.

Conclusion Contrail formation mechanisms are ordinary and contrails themselves are increasing in number as a result of increased air traffic. Reports of persistent contrails are within what is known to be naturally possible. Contrail studies are underway which will increase our knowledge of their causes, frequency, and effects. High altitude contrails are not consistent with effective dispersal of chemical or biological agents. No known toxic or harmful components have been proven to be in JP-8+100 fuel. Ethylene dibromide is not a viable chemical warfare agent when delivered through jet engine combustion. No medical reports, material analysis, or documentable and confirmable evidence has been presented which supports the hypothesis that chemical or biological agents are currently being delivered or can be associated with jet contrails. There is a threat to Americans from germ and chemical warfare, and vigilance should be maintained. Speculation and rumor without factual and specific information can only dull that vigilance. Those with factual information have a moral obligation to publicize those facts, but those who cry wolf are not acting in the best interest of this nation.

References:

1. Online Guide to Meteorology, Department of Atmospheric Sciences at the University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign, Cloud Catalog, at: http://covis1.atmos.uiuc.edu/guide/clouds/other.clouds/html/ contrail.html

2. Personal communication with David Starr, Mission Scientist, SUCCESS, NASA, GSFC, 1997

3. NASA Langley Cloud and Radiation Research at:http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/pages/minnis_home.html Atmospheric Sciences Division NASA Langley Research Center at:http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/ASDhomepage.html

4. Personal communication with Patrick Minnis, Senior Research Scientist, Radiation Sciences Branch, Atmospheric Sciences Division, NASA Langley Research Center, 1/8/99

5. National Public Radio, Morning Edition, Aviation Threat to the Environment, June 10, 1998, Patrick Minnis in interview < http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/>

6. Minnis, P.;Young, D.F.; Nguyen, L.;Garber, D.P.; Smith, W.L.,Jr.; and Palikonda, R.: Transformation of Contrails Into Cirrus During SUCCESS, Geophysical Research Letters.,25, April 15, 1998, pp. 1157-1160 http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/

7. Personal communication with Steve Zabarnick, Ph.D., Research Chemist, Aerospace Mechanics Division, University of Dayton Research Institute, Dayton, Ohio, 1/13/99

8. EXTOXNET Extension Toxicology Network, Pesticide Information Profiles, Oregon State University, Ethylene dibromide(EDB), dibromomethane, rev. 1996, http://ace.orst.edu:80/info/extoxnet/ pips/edb.htm

9. Suter, R.B. (1991). Ballooning in spiders: results of wind tunnel experiments. Ethology, Ecology, and Evolution 3: 13-25 http://vassun.vassar.edu/~suter/Abstracts_biomech.html

10. U.S. Army Test and Evaluation Command (TECOM) Directorate for Technical Mission, Test Technology Symposium '97, March 1820, 1997, Weather Modification, Dr. Arnold Barnes, Phillips Lab/GPO ------------------------------------------------------- The author, Jay Reynolds, is an engineer who has extensive experience in marine propulsion and gas turbine engines. He is an independent journalist unaffiliated with any government or corporate organization.

Back To "Contrails or 'Trails-CON?"

-- Roberta Blackard (roblackard@juno.com), November 28, 1999.

Roberta, please summarize in one short sentence (baby English please) what you think these lines are.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Marli: Do you like to mudwrestle?

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), November 28, 1999.

Ok, I believe you folks now.

-- the Virginian (1@1.com), November 28, 1999.

In baby English? My opinion is sooo humble and I am so sensitive to heat but here goes.

I think there is a piece of information missing from this "mystery". (How simplistic can I get)that if we knew it, we would laugh embarrassedly and go on to other things. I may be wrong and perhaps the conclusions jumped to are correct but, really, it is so typical of us to assume the worst. Hey, that is mostly the kind of people who participaate in this forum.

I love the people on this forum and identify with so many of you but I have seen too many instances of coming to hysterical conclusions based on insufficient information.(Myself included) after two years of this my bullshit detecter is becoming operational and when I read something very disturbing I start looking for all the reasons it might not be true. The article I submitted is the result of one of my searches.

Being from Texas I consider myself an expert on bullshit. If it were white you could ski all the way to my house, where I have made many preparations.

Even the shadow don't know

-- Roberta Blackard (roblackard@juno.com), November 28, 1999.

And another thing, if I am not invited to mudwrestle you will never hear from me again on this forum.

-- Roberta Blackard (roblackard@juno.com), November 28, 1999.

So far...no contrails in Astoria, A & L.

-- eubie (eubie@blueskyfor now.com), November 28, 1999.

Roberta, thanks for posting your thoughts. Of course there is an explanation which will clear up so many wild speculations. The truth might be evil but at least it will have a solid foundation. These long paralelling lines are factual; therefore a correlating cause can be ferretted. If we were Air Force types we would do everything in our power to come to the kernal of reality on this.

Now, KoS gets sorta shy around those eager to pounce on his sport, so you hafta simper demure, maybe flirt a little to loosen him up ;^)

We saw the movie "Sleepy Hollow" and really really enjoyed it! Wild ride it be. The most amazing thing about it was the hero Ichabod's acceptance of the truly out-of-this-world while still axing out the truth behind it. Cause even for the supernatural, yes cause and effect still rules.

Watched that movie and came out seeing how much easier life is now, and how wimpy modern man is to not GO AFTER THE TRUTH!

Bravery is sorely lacking these days ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

A & L, I lurk here all the time have posted a few times. Just wanted to let you know that I have seen the Chemtrails you are refering to here in Central Ca. Off and on all summer and really picking up the last few weeks. This is major farm country and if there is something in this stuff - it will be in our food. Don't know what to make of it all. It is scary when you see it - perfect grids in the sky. Marcy

-- Marcy (marcia@madnet.net), November 28, 1999.

I TOLD YOU SO

Everybody laughs UNTIL it happens to them.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 28, 1999.

eubie & Marcy, thanks for posting. Some have wondered why "they" would be spraying populations in remote areas. Would it mean they had already successfully "covered" the major population centers? Has anybody kept a map showing where reports have come in from? We've gotten eMails indicating this has happened in very out-of-the-way places.

Odder 'n odder. Who says there are no mysteries left? No frontiers? How about investigative journalism?

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

---hey look, it's not that hard...

population of US and canada=300 millions, give or take a few million

number of folks who would be able to be "taken care of" by emergency services should we experience a systemic, cascading collapse of our utility and shipping infrastructure=A WHOLE LOT LESS THAN 300 MILLION

so-o-o-o, if you were a government, a government who has a clear, provable track record spanning decades of lying about everything, and if that government had as it's head a meglomaniac,a rapist most likely, a bringer of death to entire peoples to further his aims, someone who has been proven to use the federal agencies, police, and militaries at his whim and pleasure to further he and his buddies goals, and one who is reported to have spoken numerous times about staying in office beyond two terms, what would you do as a governement???? What?

The answer is dog squat simple, you'd have to bump off a huge number of citizens in advance, and somehow shift the blame to some outside "threat". And you would "demonize" those who you consider a threat in advance. Between the "useless eaters" (not my phrase, the globalists phrase), the elderly, the sick and infirm, the preparers, the patriots, and the misguided voters who brought you into office(read the big cities and mostly democratic voting bloc) so they are no longer needed now, you would be forced to "waste" them.

The results would be neutralizing any serious armed resistance, much less mouths to feed, and you get to stay in power and continue to play little dictator games. I HOPE this scares the crap out of everyone. It's designed to misdirect and obfuscate. It's psyops, governmental dis-information, trolling on a big scale. don't be decieved by it's length or complexity, it's called "dazzling by bulls***". Wonder who did it, too?

Notice absolutely zero answer for the difference in appearance and color of real chemtrails, or nothing on the sicknesses spreading. That very long and detailed post up above is totally negated by visual observation of how "different" the chemtrail spraying is, and the strange health maladies that strike people. We are in the most dangerous times of our lives, and, I have stated before, y2k is NOT the most important problem we face, in fact it's about number 4 down the list. And y2k will most likely be pretty bad, so think about the top three.

Here's my threat assessment list, today, might change, but here it is:

Despotic takeover with mass extermination, i.e. genocide, chem trail mass spraying is part of it, but not all of it

possibility of world wide nuclear exchange

worldwide transfer of wealth by stock market and commodities manipulation

other y2k concerns, ones we discuss all the time

the really big fatcats will not miss one single meal, will not go cold or too hot, won't miss any playtime with their slaves (and they have them, too), won't suffer getting sprayed, won't be without fuel for their limos, won't get by without huge armies at their disposal for security, etc. etc.

good luck and better skill folks, and here's a serious tip I've given before -think "kosovo" before you think "little house on the prarie", it's a much better analogy to what's coming.

zog the warner

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), November 28, 1999.

2 links worth checking out:

TARA

Wm. Thomas

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), November 28, 1999.

There's enough for a full day's reading at this site:

Chemtrails

Lots of pictures, too. One from New Mexico that looks like this morning, only our lines were very straight, like an expert plowing the field of the sky ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Madeup, Thanks for that slap to the face I needed that. I will search this out just as I have the Y2K issue, guess I just got caught up in the moment....

King of Spain, I have seen many references to mud wrestling, but not quit sure what it involves... almost afraid to ask.

-- Marli (can'tget@it.duh), November 28, 1999.

Hi all,

I'll weigh in on this discussion, if only tentatively. I'm in southern Ontario, urban area. My partner first noticed weird con/chem trails three weekends ago: we saw two planes in an arc overhead, going horizon to horizon (but no grid pattern, just two sraight lines), spraying something from the sides of the planes' tails. I saw the same thing again a few days later, on a weekday afternoon. Both days were sunny and clear. Spray dissipated into hazy sky, as commonly reported.

Within the time period, my daughter came down w/ a fever, a nasty sore throat, and a sticky-gooey cough that made it hard for her to breathe. Her nose was fine, though. Took her to doctor, he thought her lungs sounded fine lower down, she had a culture taken for strep throat that came back negative. About 5 days later, my son came down w/ the same symptoms. After that, my partner had a milder version of the same thing. I escaped, although my throat's been hurting today.

I suspect that the illness was the result of a virus my kid picked up at school and passed to the rest of us. But it *was* a weird one, and not like a true flu episode. And I most definitely did see tail- spraying planes doing their thing.

Just reporting in.

-- silver ion (wanted@buckaroobanzai.life), November 28, 1999.

Would it not make more sense to do the spraying in the evening when it would not be so visible?

I have seen these contrails moving in a north to south pattern, which is consistent with the closest airports. I have seen the ones that turned into clouds Have never been sick afterwards, nor do I know anyone who got sick afterwards.

Due to prevailing wind patterns it would make it very unreliable to use this as a method of distribution, in my opinion. Also, if this is going on everywhere, there has to be a pilot that would be concerned about his family getting sprayed somewhere and who would spill the beans.

-- Lurking on the sidelines (Alw@ys lurking.com), November 28, 1999.

A&L,

Whole Fam here including myself, very sick with upper-respiratory/ cold-like symptoms and persistant and intense fatigue. Bad cough, heavy congestion....all arrived at the same time after we were sprayed with this stuff this past week.

Very worried.

Have seen the planes mentioned above. White 727's with RED tails.

Very tired since this stuff was let loose last week.

I think whatever it is, it isn't good, and it would really suck if this were some kind of chemical or Bio weapon that mutates into something that takes a bunch of us out.

In other words....we didn't even have a fighting chance, and our own government did this to us. So if mass amounts of Americans begin dropping like flies, those of you remaining can put the blame square on the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

And if this was some kind of innoculation, they at least had the duty to inform us what they were doing. But because they are silent on the issue, I can only assume the worst. This government only has their own interests at heart, not mine or the American People's.

The proof is in the way they prepared us for Y2K. So I'll assume the worst with this chemtrail crap.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 28, 1999.

They were in Lewiston, Idaho about a week and a half ago. Same Scenario. Clear blue skies. I happened to be looking out the window at about 7am and you couldn't miss them. I took about 10 pictures till I ran out of film. I did get 5 contrails in one shot by turning the camera sideways. Also they all ran together, but the sun shined through them and just lit up the original contrails. I got a pic of that as well.

I never believed it before I saw it either....

Back to lurk mode...

-- Lurker (Lewiston@Idaho.com), November 28, 1999.

TM, The link to TARA says it is closed, new to all this what does that mean?

-- Marli (can'tget@it.duh), November 28, 1999.

Lurking,

They do them during the day because this is when most people are outside breathing the air. It is possible the gubmint has reason to believe that there may be biological attacks on the horizon, and that this is some form of vaccine, probably for anthrax and smallpox. They cannot tell us because there would be panic, but they feel it is necessary because the alternative is death.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 28, 1999.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit." That's my take on that long "analysis/rebuttal" footnoted article posted. I admit that I have not read it carefully, so this is just my impression: It appears that the author is making a case that since what has been reported is not A, B, C, or D, then it is NOTHING. WRONG, it is not necessarily NOTHING; it could be E, F, or ...

There is obviously SOMETHING going on. What exactly, we don't know -- but SOMETHING.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 28, 1999.

I've been seeing them for almost fifteen years. I get the flu almost every year. Are they spraying me with some goddam virus, or what?

Funny, though, lately when I get the flu is when they are NOT spraying. Maybe it's flu vaccine.

ALK

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), November 28, 1999.

Here's the link to Thomas' contrail website. Here's a snip:

See my website or email me for further info on the best supplements I have ever taken. USANA fully restored my immune system after it was severely compromised by stress and toxic exposures in the Gulf Eco War. Since then, daily supplementation with USANA ("Perfect Health") has allowed me to so far ward off flu, colds and chemtrail exposures. I have seen these products work to alleviate the symptoms of so many sick people, I know that these supplements put together by one of the worlds foremost microbiologists - Dr. Myron Wentz - really work. Because I believe in offering solutions to the problems I report, I am continuing to offer these supplements at cost - zero markup - [my emphasis] to anyone, including Gulf War and chemtrails veterans. In addition to "boosters" such as grape seed extract, calcium-magnesium and a specially formulated ginko-biloba, the "Essentials" provide everything you need to restore and shield your immune system in just two small bottles. http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/investsky.htm

Two things: 1) when I was doing public meetings for Y2K education I was accused of a) fearmongering, and b) in it for the money. Well, not really me, but I had a friend who had a cannery. Both these accusations came from Doreen Kelly, who is the director for Butte County Red Cross. This was reported to me from two people that I know to be honest and reputable.

So, looking at Thomas' vitamin sales snip, is he in it for the money? I assume he was in the Gulf War. Since there are a lot of people who offer vitamins and health supplements, the accusation sounds fishy, like someone out to smear him.

2) I have seen lots of funny looking contrails in the sky over Chico in the past 8 months. The article that Roberta has put up seems very impressive about the meteorology, but just because "contrails" are explained, it does not necessarily follow that whatI have seen with my eyes -contrails that linger for hours and have overcast the entire sky, X's, start/stop, and the many many reports from around the nation... these scientific sounding explanations may not explain the "chemtrail" phenemona.

Thomas has on his website a report of a lab analysis of some crud scraped off of a building near an airport that was biohazardous and cause the lab some concern.

I suppose that Thomas and his people could have faked that, but it would seem to me that a real faker would be caught in his lie and discredited. Oops, my naivite is showing. Why, he'd be elected President!

The point I'm making is that what sounds like science, even IS science, can be used as a tool to discredit someone who has says something not very likeable. We've certainly seen enough Y2K spin to last a lifetime.

The debunking of Thomas would sound much more believable to me if I did not already know that the CIA sprayed American subways and San Francisco; if I didn't already know about the FBI's COINTELPRO project, or the CIA's MK-ULTRA, or any number of spooky (no pun intended) black projects.

I agree wholeheartedly that we must keep the BS-early-warning system up, and beware of DIS-information put out by spooks and other government stooges, ALA Gerald Posner's 1993 CASE CLOSED which reexamined the "evidence" and came to the conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and there was no conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

Geez, it would seem that you could ski from the Redwood Forest to the New York island if the gov't's BS was white.

Made for you and me, okay. Stick it to you and me, okay. Bad boy, bad boy, bad boy, whatcha gonna do when they spray on you?

-- johno (jobriy2k@yahoo.com), November 28, 1999.

Marli,

Not sure why that site (TARA) is not up. I was just there 2 days ago. That site discusses at length a number of possible "suspects and motives" for the spraying. It also gets into chemical analysis of chemtrails.

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), November 28, 1999.

Several months ago, I saw the same patterns, several times a week for about a month, in Ventura County. Both my son & I, plus most of the people at work, got nasty chest congestion and coughs. Being a smoker, I was effected worse, coughing up crap constantly. Then they just stopped, and within a few weeks, the symptoms disappeared.

The thing is, these trails, whatever they where, formed at what appeared to be a much lower altitude. Being next to two naval bases, an air national guard base, just down the road from Vandenburg AFB, plus under one of the flight lanes into & out off LAX, I know what normal contrails look like. These are very different, as anyone who's seen them will tell you. They are lower altitude, intentional geometric patterns layed out for a purpose.

Don't know what's that purpose is, but something is up, on a massive scale, judging by the reports from all over the US & Canada.

-- C (c@c.com), November 28, 1999.

Just came back from bike ride, carefully examined car windshield, no residues, no sticky cobwebs, no dusting, everything looks clean. Had to get out in the sun.

All your accounts are very interesting.

So, is this THE most widespread mystery happening out there? Is anything else occurring in so many places, with so many people noticing, and causing illness, with NOBODY saying for sure they know what it is?

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

In all honesty, I haven't paid that much attention to the chemtrail issue here on the forum (or anywhere else for that matter). Rational reasoning prevailed and I just thought it was a form of minor hysteria in reaction to the massive unknown of Y2K and its attendant anxieties. Taking a stroll with my dog on Thanksgiving, late afternoon, I looked up at the sky and saw multiple lovely contrails and jets emitting contrails. Lots of them. Since we live in the next valley down from Vandenburg AFB, I imagined it was something military...whatever they get up to. Seeing activity in the sky is not unusual, seeing this amount of activity is rare. In reaction to Ashton & Leska's post today, I did some research on the chemtrail issue. I've appreciated their posts for a while now and don't consider them especially alarmist or tin foil-ish. I am a bit unsettled by all of this. My first instinct was to think, 'Why would the AF (if they are indeed involved) spray an area of population, that housed their own people, with a substance that would weaken or kill them?" - My second instinct was, "Why is ANYBODY spraying anything at all?" either harmful or helpful (as in the case of Anthrax vaccination). What is that? As a concept, it's truly bizzare. As a reality, it's just plain evil. If, in fact, chemtrails are a reality and areas of population are being either vaccinated or infected, who is responsible? So, what to do? First, chemical analyses of any substance that makes it to the ground. Second, chemical analyses gathered in the air during one of these incidents. Third, find out who orders these flights? Then find out WHY? I resent being sprayed without my expressed permission, that includes those the perfume hawkers in department stores. I strongly object to being sprayed with a chemical that is potentially hazardous to my health. Good grief, what in the world is going on!!

-- Casey DeFranco (caseyd@silcom.com), November 28, 1999.

Hi Casey, we've been reading that many ppl saw these around the country on ThanksGiving. If it is the military doing it, do they have to pay time + 1/2 for holidays? Did Whoever think ThanksGiving was a good day because many families have a tradition of an after-dinner walk before pie?

Somebody is shelling out lotsa $$ to pay for these planes going back and forth drawing lines 'n tik tak toe in the sky. Some ppl speculate that it is a weather-control experiment. Judging that the last 2 years have been documented as the COSTLIEST in natural disasters, they don't have a real good track record steering weather away. Also, there have been droughts, so they haven't mastered cloud / rain making.

And why on earth would they need to "seed" Portland's sky for clouds right after a pineapple express deluge that still has Oregon/Washington rivers flooding?

Leska grew up in Tucson near DMAFB, and watched planes as a kid. Nothing like this was ever noticed. These are lower and fatter and don't fade away like normal contrails.

We ARE alarmists about certain things known to create terrible hardship for people: uncontrollable fires, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, floods, sewage backup, hazmat accidents, war. We advocate that all prep to give themselves tools to make it through these recurring earth calamities with minimalization of suffering.

We're not too tinfoily, and now that we've SEEN these chemtrail lines swiftly marching across the sky in formation, we don't consider the issue a fringe factor: it is real. There has to be a verifiable, logical explanation. Mass nonconsented vaccination is not a good idea. Mass poisoning is definitely not a good idea. Pesticide spraying (and designation of just who / what is the pest) also is not a good idea. Weather control? Not very successful.

Is this the most widespread in-your-face odd thing happening out there?

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Ashton & Leska,

"Is this the most wide-spread in your face odd thing happening out there?"

This is right up there with a few lulu's I've seen in my lifetime. I'm going to Vandenburg tomorrow and see if I can come up with any information. Considering the close proximity to the base, I can't imagine they won't have some information about the amount of jets scratching the sky. Of course, what they will say is up for grabs. It will be interesting. My next step is to speak with a few of our local pilots and see if anyone is interested in taking samples. Perhaps documenting the process for posterity. I am acquainted with an old "hippie-dippie," (as he's known around here) who used to be a employed by the federal government (as what, I am not sure), and views them with the dubious, rheumy eye of one familiar with their machinations. I think I'll see what he knows about this, and how one might go about finding some substantial information. "Mutate or perish," may not just be a humorous statement. Take care.

-- Casey DeFranco (caseyd@silcom.com), November 28, 1999.

Casey,

Ever hear of "classified" projects? I hope you are able to come up with some more information, but it isn't likely.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 28, 1999.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that this is a White House-led operation, though I'm sure they know what is happening. If it is real and widespread (not doubting it because I believe it is, but we still can't say much about it for sure, can we?), it is military-led I suspect.

Not genocidal, at least by intention, that's over the edge. Unintended consequences? Who knows? Check back in five to ten years.

Not smallpox -- they don't have enough to go around as it is.

Might be anthrax-related or other bio-threat. Media silence not unusual (I oppose it absolutely but not unusual) in this case, since it would be considered top national security/secrecy thingie and the media would willingly go along with that. Obviously, any public disclosure would spark a national FIRESTORM of protest (think nuclear industry as a minor case of what would happen). This is being done "for the good of the nation" by "those who are wise".

How does that sound as a not-too-profound theory?

Fortunately, I live in the boonies but if I see these things, we're going hazmat protection ASAP as much as we can.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), November 28, 1999.

Good grief, this thing is sorta going wild today. We have oodles of eMails from Yourdynamites who have seen these things and then gotten very ill with respiratory bugger boggy bugs afterwards.

[ and all you bashful Sightings should come outta your Net closets and testify your experiences! ]

Seems like the spraying campaign has intensified to the point where those of us who were sitting on the fence and HADN'T SEEN them are starting to get the sky show.

The Countdown is in earnest, the planes are dumping more and faster and don't give a mist weather we all see them or not -- of course we're going to connect 2 + 2 = 4 and think JUST MAYBE this has something to do with Rollover or CDC (creepy term there) ??

Somebody please POLLIFY MOLLIFY our concerns!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

CDC = TRANSPARENCY !!!!!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Dear Ashton & Leska,

Welcome to the Chemtrail club. I saw chemtrails last week and posted about them as well. I am in VA as you know and ran inside the house, closed the windows with the hubby. So far, no ill effects due to our doing this. Plus we didn't see any gooey stuff on cars/trees/ground. The airplanes were white and the chemtrails were coming out of the tails, NOT the wings where the engines are. I am a pilot CFII so I know a bit about airplanes. The altitude was lower than what planes usually fly on Vector airways. Also, (as one person suggested) I checked my Aeronautical pilot's map and the vector airways over my area were NOT where I saw these chemtrails.

I got a bit ridiculed on my link but I understand because who knows what these could be or not. I personally believe that the govt. is innoculating us for Anthrax. Just my current best guess.

You both are wonderful people and I appreciate the contributions you make on this great forum of ours.

-- Debi (LongTimeLurker@shy.com), November 28, 1999.

We Got It !!! We Got It !!! We Got It !!!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Here in E. Tennessee, we've been seeing contrails. Also know, from recent local articles, there is a lawsuit that has been filed concerning spraying forestry lands with ag chemicals to prevent infestations in the timber owned and harvested by a hugh company that owns thousands and thousands of acres of timber in TN, GA and NC.

Could this be what you are seeing?

-- mom (mom@mom.com), November 28, 1999.

Cracked the Code!

CDC!

CDC is the awkward weird label given to Y2K by Greedspin & Koffinsky. Century Date Change. Millennial Date Change too (yeah, 2001 yadda yadda yadda).

CLUES staring us in the face! Doh Duh !!!!!!!!!!!!!

CDC is better known as the CENTERS for DISEASE CONTROL !!!!!!!!!

Epidemic studies, vials of smallbox in frozen cylinders, etc.
Tracking the outbreaks.

They are innoculating the population! But that isn't the whole story, not by a long shot. More like a booster with lots of different "strains."

Anthrax & smallpox & other biowarfare experimental vaccines ...

AND some sort of DISABLING agent to control the mobs and stop rioting

AND some sort of psychotropic mood elevators to benumb the weeples and cloud their memory and critical thinking processes so they just keep treading their habits and going along to the edge of the cliff like good complacent lemmings ...

All this while Barnett has been saying TRANSPARENCY Is the Answer ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

CDC = TRANSPARENCY !!!!! !

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Transparency, "Hiding In Plain Sight" !!!!!!!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

A&L and All,

You know, I have been regular here for some time. I came here because I was concerned about y2k. I have learned many things, good and bad. I'm not a DGI and not a true GI, I'm not sure what's going to happen next year (and i don't beleive any of You know either)but I've stored and preped just in case (just as i have homeowners and auto insurance). I've even let myself become involved in talks on the govt, police, guns and a few others.

More than once I have told myself, as I read more and more wayout topics and was astowned at how many people believed in them, that it was time for me to move on. And now, with all this contrail bunk, I think it's the right time. I don't mean to dis anyone but this stuff is stupid, I don't believe what I'm reading. I do not understand how anybody with an IQ over 20 can fall for this junck. And to Roberta, good for you! You have it right.

Yes, I know. After I leave, and this IS my last visit here. You will all have something witty or harsh to say about my comments. No matter, I shall not return to read them. I just can not continue to see you people drive yourselves to the edge like this. Well, I not so worried about you, I just don't want you taking me with you. After wht I see you are doing to anyone that says they are new and wants to know about chemtrails.....well, I just hope they will study the subject themselves. And to the newbees I say study Roberta's remarks, she has it right.

Sorry guys, just cann't take the weirdness any more.

-- see you (so@long.xcom), November 28, 1999.

see you, this is hardly a reason to see you go, you are somebody who posted several times but almost always under a different made-up handle, lately leaning near troll status. Too many people have seen these chemtrails for it to be nothing. It is weird. The truth is stranger than fiction.

-- someone who knows (TB2K@Forum.watch), November 28, 1999.

Jay Reynolds, is that you, the gubmint shill? Well I been to your lousy website and it is a bunch of disinformation intended to cover up the real story. Nice try pal, but I ain't buyin it.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 28, 1999.

-- see you (so@long.xcom), we understand. We still have the eebie jeebie willies, a little. But we did go bike riding some 7 hours afterwards :-) We won't be smiling if we get sick! We could scarce believe our eyes. But now that we have seen, nothing will make us forget, or question our memory. WHAT is behind those real, white tight lines that poof out as though they're dandelions baking spreading blowing in the azure sun-drenched breeze

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Get a life A & L. Chemtrails... right, the government is spraying us in broad daylight and the media doesn't know about it.

-- Doug (Doug@itsover.com), November 28, 1999.

Doug, we have a life, we have death too. Well-rounded :-) Somebody is spraying something up there in broad daylight and does the media know about it? Well, do they? Does the media ever look up? Look out their window? We saw it today and it is real. Is the media a case of Seeing They See Not?

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Hello again all!

I've seen no spraying over Prince George, BC, but I have heard about multiple Canadian cities getting "dusted"...

Strangely enough, the more research I do about this, the more I learn! What I'm learning is that -to the best of my knowledge- nobody knows WHY, but the WHAT is indisputable. You are right on that.

Viktor Suvurov, among others, taught me not to worry about what folks say, but to watch most carefully what they do. Political puffery and pointless pontification (I love alliteration...) aside, I think we are being set up on a grand scale.

What you've seen is direct evidence of one threat. There are others.

please consider the following:

My note to JR Nyquist sent 24 Nov/99 Good Afternoon Sir!

You obviously know one heck of alot more about communist intentions than I do, and I'd like to request your advice on a matter of concern to me.

It occurs to me that the communist countries will go through the century date change before most western nations. Coupled with this is--to the best of my knowledge--the declining quality of Soviet-era nuclear weapons.

Accordingly, it seems to me that President Clinton has left North America very vulnerable to a pre-emptive strike from one or more communist powers. Taking into account the information from your last column, which parallels my education on Soviet-era war plans (training in the Canadian Armed Forces), I think the next month is a grand window of opportunity for communist Russia.

You know all this. My question to you sir is if you know (or can see more clearly than I) the odds of a pre-emptive strike coming before the turn of the year.

Please understand that I have no intention of ridiculing you or even publicly debating the issue. I have done most all I can do for my family, so your information or advice will not make a huge difference in my actions, merely my understanding.

Thank you for your consideration of my question.

His answer:

The question you ask is difficult, requiring a great deal of detailed information. Y2K is not well understood. From talking to various experts I am convinced that nobody [in America] knows what will happen in Russia. Recent news from Moscow reveals that Russia has a special computer chip. It is possible they have had this chip longer than they are now claiming, and it is possible they were ahead of the Y2K curve all along. But who knows?

A window of opportunity for a surprise attack will open on the last Wednesday of 1999. It will probably remain open, depending on the Y2K outcome, for about one year. Russia and China can play out a crisis in any number of ways. The nuclear option is obviously being prepared for. That doesn't mean they've picked a date to attack. It might only mean they are afraid an attack might become necessary if certain political moves fail.

On the other hand, it is altogether possible they have picked a date, given that the indicators suggest massive war preparations on all three levels -- civilian, military, and economic. In my opinion that date will be a week day, it will be in winter, and it will be during the day -- Moscow time. It will not be on a holiday or weekend. This is only my opinion, based on calculations about the kinds of things the Russians need to be able to do at the last minute during a war emergency.

JRN

-- (Kurt.Borzel@gems8.gov.bc.ca), November 28, 1999.

That idiot that runs the island net site doesn't know jack-shit about how contrails form. I had to laugh out loud about the "close-up pictures of the spray coming out of the tails of the jets". What a moron! I ought to write the idiot and tell that fool that condensation forms a few moments AFTER the hot engine has passed through the cold air, it NEVER trails directly from the engine nacelles. Hell, even the old slow B-17 formed contrails BEHIND the engines, and they flew a lot slower than those 767s in the pictures.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 28, 1999.

Well, now that we've had that flash of connectivity, of inspiration, we expect the trolls, scoffers, and shills will fall all over this, ridiculing, screaming, blasting, attacking, neigh-butting, etc. Yep it's wild, it's weird, it's eerie when you see it. A sort of "normal" sight that has mutated and grown hydra tentacles reaching out over & over & over & over across the arches. Cancer of the sky.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

Yawn.

ALK

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), November 28, 1999.

Diane, "Art Bell," Doc, Rickster, Alfred, Dancr, Cross-hatch, Pearlie Sweetcake, Marli, forum regular, Ready, merak, Guy, bob, Virginian, Hawk, zog, TM, silver ion, Lurking, INVAR, Lewiston, A, johno, C, Casey, BigDog, Debi, mom, someone, Kurt, Uncle, everybody, and all of you who eMailed us [y'all REALLY should post your stories ] -- THANK YOU for all your valuable input.

Wish we had saved all the ChemTrail / contrail threads so we could link them to this thread, so you could read all the other amazing posts by so many contributors.

Will link the other 2 threads addressed to us to this thread.

Anybody get any more answers sparked?

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 29, 1999.

Paging Ashton & Leska/Contrails Over Dallas NOW

Ashton & Leska: Chemtrails in the Dallas area

Very interesting posts on those threads. Many people have seen chemtrails and have good ideas.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 29, 1999.

Good point Unc, makes sense to me. Some of the photos are probably not the planes that are actually making the chemtrails, but here is an example of one that probably is:



In most cases, the heavy chemtrails I've seen seem to have been spread in early morning, near sunrise, right before the populace hits the streets. So these would be less likely to be photographed, yet the clouds often linger for several hours and often ruin an otherwise sunny day, which pisses me off.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 29, 1999.

Hawk, exactly - it ruins a beautiful day and its frustrating for me because I never see the darn planes, just the trails. Makes me think of the movie "Soilent Green" for some reason ..... totally creepy!!

-- DoNotWantFoodFormTheGobmint (karlareed@aol.com), November 29, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

For those asking for links to other threads in this forum... I've contributed to most of those threads, and provided links to them on My ChemTrail Page.

I only hope this is an immunization, even though we've eshewed vaccinations up to now. I don't even want to think about the culling idea. We have shelter in place preps, but how would we even know when to use them? These planes go over every day and the stuff takes hours to drop. Here's a horrible thought: remember Jim Jones? They used to do practice runs on the Kool-Ade parties. Could it be that the pilots are being told that it's immunization and to keep quiet so as to not spook the herd? ...that the flights really do nothing but to condition everyone to the fact that these planes WILL be going overhead and don't seem to hurt anything, only to one day put the extra additive into all the spray tanks? How will we know if/when that day comes?

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), November 29, 1999.

What better way to trace large numbers of people in wooded area's that might congregate in areas like the cascades, and the appalachain's than to spray the areas with chemicals leaving a residual satellite traceable image. Sort of paint the area white in the eyes of the satellites, before the exodus begins, to determine movements.

-- seeker (return@to.nature), November 29, 1999.

Always looking for the truth, not proof that I am right, here are a couple of thoughts. One, if the gov wanted to poison-inocculate us this would be more efficiently done through the water supply. Second thought, spraying would reach those not on the public water supply. Third, when these planes are spraying around the air force bases are the people inside the air force base all running for cover? What reason could there be to be so open about what they are doing? Are they making us look over THERE when we should be looking HERE? Is the spraying done to affect the weather globally (not necessarily to make it rain). See, I can be just as paranoid and tinfoily as the next person.

-- Roberta Blackard (roblackard@juno.com), November 29, 1999.

Today it's cloudy. Many chilling possibilities on these chemtrail threads, but we are so coiled up tight and springy trying to deal with The Big Kaboom coming in 30-odd days that we can't go after this one with any diligence now. But you know, if Y2K hits with severe oil & gas disruptions and these planes are STILL flying we will KNOW the chemtrail mystery is a bad bad bad event taking place.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 29, 1999.

Roberta,

"One, if the gov wanted to poison-inocculate us this would be more efficiently done through the water supply."

No, too many problems doing it that way. Since the anthrax antigen is actually a form of bacteria it would probably be rendered inactive by other chemicals added to the water system, such as chlorine, flouride, etc. Also, because of the tremendous volumes of water in the system, the solution would be very diluted and would require exorbitant amounts of vaccine.

"Second thought, spraying would reach those not on the public water supply."

That's another good reason why they do it through the air. It is important to vaccinate every living creature, not just those drinking the water.

"Third, when these planes are spraying around the air force bases are the people inside the air force base all running for cover?"

They don't need to run for cover, it is a vaccine. Most military and government officials have already been vaccinated and it doesn't hurt if they breathe in a little more, it just creates more antibodies.

"What reason could there be to be so open about what they are doing? Are they making us look over THERE when we should be looking HERE?"

I'm sure if they could have made it completely invisible they would have, but the clouds are actually a pretty good disguise as most people still refuse to believe they are anything out of the ordinary. In reality they are not being very open about it at all.

"Is the spraying done to affect the weather globally (not necessarily to make it rain)."

I've considered that theory, but it doesn't make sense. Why would they do this over the entire country where they are visible? There is no reason why they would need to go way out into rural areas far from their bases just to modify weather. They could just work over the military areas or over the ocean where they wouldn't be so visible.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 29, 1999.

Could the chemtrails be part one of a binary poison?

Just asking.

George

-- George Valentine (GeorgeValentine@usa.net), November 29, 1999.

A couple of years ago, while I was still coal mining, I observed six or seven high altitude jets spraying something over Texas following a flight path running roughly along I-20 From Shreveport towards Dallas. They didn't crosshatch but made East West and West east runs which eventually resulted in a total cloud cover on what had been a clear day. I figured they were cloud seeding and sure enough withing a day or two NASA released a news article explaining that they were experimenting with weather control over Tx. using high altitude tanker spraying.

I didn't give it much more thought as they have been seeding clouds in Tx. for about fifty years. What was different about this though is that they weren't seeding clouds, they were creating them in an effort to generate storm fronts. Related? I don't know. But within a few weeks of this occurence our entire crew of approximately 50 heavy equipment operators, myself included all had sever respiratory infections which the dr.'s couldn't identify and lasted in my case for over two months, very nearly leading to hospitalization, and I know of two people who died during this outbreak as the infections progressed to pne monia.

I haven't gotten into the contrail argument because it just seems to me that any operation this large could not be covered up for any extended period of time, and the one incident I am familiar with doesn't match the spraying patterns described by others. I am sitting here at home sick now, and have been off work for nearly three weeks with a vicious upper respiratory infection, working on my third course of antibiotics. This is my fourth bout with this respiratory infection in the last two years, and the initial episode was the one described above. I am nearly 43 years old and have never in my life had any sinus problems or infections prior to this.

There is another angle which I believe all of you are overlooking. About three years ago a female Dr. working for the veterans administration publicly announced that gulf war syndrome was contagious, therefore of a biological nature. Since the gulf war there has been an explosion of people reporting chronic pain, fatigue, shortness of breath, and a hodgepodge of symptons which all mimic the synptoms of GWS. It is entirely possible that the government is full well aware that Saddam Hussein used Biological weapons against our troops, institutiing a chronic malaise into our population which they cannot admit to. Perhaps they have some respiratory virus which generates a boost in the immune system which is effective against GWS, or anthrax, or smallpox, or some other malady they fear will be introduced into our country. Or maybe they are spraying us with a bi=component germ or chemical which will not reveal it's true nature until the second half of the brew is delivered. I don't know, but I have reached the conclusion that something definitely is going on, too many credible people are making reports for it to be otherwise.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), November 29, 1999.

The key point is not that our government would be spraying its citizens with malicious intent. That could NOT be covered up -- too many people would know and the "semper fi's" or equivalent would lay down their lives to get the info out.

The key point is that there are almost certainly political reasons why it is being kept secret.

Nik's speculation about Gulf War "fallout" may be wrong in the details but correct in the large: that is, that our government believes if citizens knew the truth, it would compel various types of geopolitical action on our part that are deemed too dangerous. And, probably, that it would create "panic" as well as a highly splintered left (capitulate) - right (nuke 'em) response to the perceived source of the threat.

The basic relationship of chemtrails to Y2K is that it is an integral component of the way that our government chooses to communicate-not communicate with the citizens who elected them.

Regrettably, citizens no longer see elected officials as OUR servants but the reverse. Constitutionally, they are bound to inform us (not by explicit encoding but by every implicit principle within that document). They don't. That is the core problem with both Y2K and chemtrails.

Spin rules over all.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), November 29, 1999.

So far it looks like several ppl feel the spraying might involve a bio agent. The military has been insisting on vaccinating its members for anthrax -- to the point where many servicepeople have left in protest. This is taking place at a time when the military is suffering severe personnel shortages. The Emir of Bahrain dropped dead instantly of a heart attack as Cohen was talking to him about "Y2K and terrorism."

We know we have not connected all the dots and don't have a comprehensive picture, but this Forum is farther ahead than the "Huh whazzat?" mmmooooo crowd.

If you see chemtrails, try to get a picture, and please post your observations. Will the spraying become even more evident across the USA as Rollover approaches?

Diane, could you add a Chemtrail Category? It seems to have struck the Barometer Bell.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 30, 1999.

More testimonies, more evidence, more interesting threads:

It's 9:00am in Central Illinois, AND THEY ARE SPRAYING!!

Newb question about Chemtrails

OT: Unintended Consequences and Chemtrails?

VERY OT: CON/CHEMTRAILS--IS ANYONE GATHERING HARD DATA

CHEMTRAILS

OT: Reporting in.....Chemtrails....AGAIN!

Way out on the Chemtrail Limb

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 30, 1999.

...this thread is absolutely rediculous. What a society we are...

-- Rob (maxovrdrv51@hotmail.com), November 30, 1999.

Like most others, I thought the whole "chemtrail" thing was sorta nutsy........till I saw them myself.

First sighting was in March 99 in Charlotte, NC. Blew my mind!!

June 99 saw 'em again, lots of 'em, in West Virginia.

The last 5 months, we've observed them at least weekly north of Toronto, Canada.

Hubby is an ex air traffic controller and commercial pilot. He agrees that these are NOT NORMAL CONTRAILS.

-- Sheila (sross@bconnex.net), November 30, 1999.

Like most others, I thought the whole "chemtrail" thing was sorta nutsy........till I saw them myself.

First sighting was in March 99 in Charlotte, NC. Blew my mind!!

June 99 saw 'em again, lots of 'em, in West Virginia.

The last 5 months, we've observed them at least weekly north of Toronto, Canada.

Hubby is an ex air traffic controller and commercial pilot. He agrees that these are NOT NORMAL CONTRAILS.

We often see the "oily rainbow" in them.

Have NO idea what its all about, but can't help thinking if it was all "innocent", we'd have had an explanation by now.

-- Sheila (sross@bconnex.net), November 30, 1999.