Our preacher told us last month that y2k bug disaster is predicted in the Holy Bible and we shuld prepared to meet the END TIMES. He says y2k bug was planted by agents from Magog which is Russia working with liberals and traitor evolutionary scientists. Nothing to do know but that is okay - rejoice for salvation is here! This is definite, no ifs and buts about it, the times forecast will be here in just a few days!!! Thank Jesus I'm a Christian and so know I will go to heaven anyone who hasn't accepted the loving Christs thier personel savior will soon be burning in hell their innards aflame with Christ's terrifying vengeance.

Our preacher says that the rich cant go to heaven and we should give up all our belongings now. So we have been sending all our money to the Jesus 2000 Charity. Tomorrow our trailer is sold and we will send the money from this to Jesus 2000 too. By next week we won't have a cent but this is the price for admission to heaven then we are glad to pay it you can not doubt the WORD of Jesus Christ Our Lord And Savior In God's Name.

I pray you all will accept Jesus in the next month the end is near and give away all your material goods in exchange for your internal soul. God bless and will see fellow TRUE christians after y2k bug disaster in God's heaven.

-- Bill (bshuk21@aol.com), November 27, 1999

Answers

so know I will go to heaven anyone who hasn't accepted the loving Christs thier personel savior

Thanks, but I am self employed. I don't have any personel to make plans for right now. But I'll keep it in mind.

-- (Cotton@Mather.com), November 27, 1999.

Bill: I'm probably the only one on the list dumb enough to answer your post, but here goes. 1. 2000 is NOT the end of the world. It's the last year in the 20th century. There are so many prophecies that are still unfulfilled that it will be a good long time before Jesus will return. 2. Jesus said to "sell what you have, and give to the poor." He did NOT say, "sell all you have and give the proceeds to your preacher." If you have goods or services, ask a reasonable price, and tithe on your proceeds.

-- Liz Pavek (lizpavek@hotmail.com), November 27, 1999.

Bill,Sir.....

You should read the book (Bible). If you want to "Talk the Talk", You must "Walk the Walk".

-- Tommy Rogers (Been there@Just a Thought.com), November 27, 1999.

Are you joking? This is a joke, right? A born-again Troll? ( Would that be BAT?) If this is not a joke...might I suggest you re-visit your Bible and consider changing churches. Your "preacher" sounds a bit daft.

-- Casey DeFranco (caseyd@silcom.com), November 27, 1999.

The problem with your salvation is that Jesus saves at Bank of America and they have a data disability that will cause all of gods money to be lost. Heaven is paved with gold and with so many newcommers (after rollover) god will not be able to buy enough to pave the road to your salvation.

Talk to Jesus right away about teaching you some of his tricks, such as feeding a whole gang of people with just one loaf of bread and on fish!

-- dw (y2k@outhere.com), November 27, 1999.

*Please* don't feed this troll. I beg you all!

-- Zev Barak (zev@no.com), November 27, 1999.

Bill: You're a wannabe troll. This has got to be the most pathetic attemt I've seen yet.

-- Ron Thomas (rthomas@home.com), November 27, 1999.

I wonder how many preachers have sold their congregations into poverty through a misinterpretation of Bible prophecy. It really breaks my heart to hear of another case.

Jesus said, "Ye know not the day nor the hour when the Son of Man cometh," so to name a date for Jesus return is counter to Jesus own words.

My, I feel for you, son, you have been led astray by a false Gospel. A person is saved by his faith in Jesus and by His death on the cross, not by someone selling all his earthly posessions.

Yes, trust in Jesus, and then you are saved by something that happens in your heart, not by something you do in the flesh. Salvation is a free gift. You can't buy it.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), November 27, 1999.

Cotten,

ROFLMAO!!!

-- Big D (ddac@yahoo.com), November 27, 1999.

total troll

-- homestead2 (homestead@monroecty.net), November 27, 1999.

Dear Bill,

It's time for you and your family to find a new preacher! I believe the Bible is God's Word. I believe Y2K is going to be a problem. But any preacher that tries to tell you that the Bible says anything about Y2K is preaching on the white spaces. It could be the event that gets the ball rolling to the fulfillment of a number of end time prophecies but Liz is right, this is not the end of the world. Read Matthew 24:3 the disciples as Jesus 3 questions about His return and the end of the world and in the verses that follow He answers those 3 questions, we've got a ways to go beyond Jan. 1st, and a lot to see happen if you believe Jesus' words.

Proverbs says: "In the multitude of counsellers there is safty." Talk to other Christian you respect for their Bible knowledge outside your church and get their counsel. Listen to what your being told tonight by people who's only motive is your best interest.

Grace and Peace

-- Watching Goodman (ITgoodmanHK@juno.com), November 27, 1999.

Troll alert! Here we have a troll who mocks Christians and Christianity. A very dumb troll at that.

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), November 27, 1999.

uuuuuugghh, this troll even dumber than JBD's hellfire blurts

-- thumb down (worst@of.the.worst), November 27, 1999.

Liz,

You state, "There are so many prophecies that are still unfulfilled that it will be a good long time before Jesus will return."

Please name one....... just one!!!!

-- Vernon Hale (create@premiernet.net), November 27, 1999.

Here's one: the appearance of the "Beast".

-- Me (me@me.me), November 27, 1999.

If this is not a put-on by a troll, I will be as polite and kind as I can muster.

The scriptures clearly state that no man knows when Christ wqill return, so if your pastor said what you say he did, he is a false prophet. Do not give him any more of your assets. If you have stocked up on anything and have enough to share with your neighbor, do that.

Where the so-called Christian survivalists err is that they don't know the scriptures. Read it for yourself so that no one can fool you.. Knowledge gives power. We ARE supposed to watch for the signs and be prepared for Jesus' return. That is, we are to be working for Him and getting out the Gospel. Now, I don't believe we should not prepare for Y2K; we should. God has allowed personkind to outsmart him/herself. The people from scripture who prepared were Joseph, Noah, the ant ( go to the ant, you sluggard ) and the five wise virgins, plus others. Until this century, people prepared a year in advance habitually. The only thing is, we shouldn't trust in our collections, and we certainly shouldn't shoot anyone to protect it.

The Y2k situation is simply a collossal human error which God has allowed to happen, but will be merciful and get us through it. I know Christians and unbelievers who are on both sides of this situation. One of the experts said on one of these forums that it has to do with what kind of thinker one is - - a lateral or linear thinker. ( I think that person was a philosopher or sociologist, as well as a computer expert.)

As far as Christ's return is concerned, several prophesys have to occur before his return, among them the drying up of the Nile, the rebuilding of the temple on the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, and the building of Mystery Babylon in Iraq, which will operate as the quasi-religious financial center of the world. To people who do not believe in Christ or the scriptures, this is pure foolishness and I am now viewed as a raving maniac. Read Ezekial, Daniel and Revelation for more information.

We should not fear ( we who are Christians ) and nothing we can do will change what will happen. Each one of us needs to be prepared to be wrong. Even Ed Yourdon has said that.

Technologically Challenged

-- Constance A. Iversen (hive@gte.net), November 27, 1999.

Also, salvation is free. "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God not of works, lest anyone should boast." You'd better find a true Christian preacher, quickly. But first, read John 3:16 and the whole Gospel of John and then the rest of the New Testament. No one can fool you if you know what it says yourself.

-- Constance A. Iversen (hive@gte.net), November 27, 1999.

Typos in my posts:

wqill: will prophesys: prophesies

I'll never get over that proofreading course!

-- Constance A. Iversen (hive@gte.net), November 27, 1999.

Bill, you are not only subjecting yourself to Nicolitaine preaching, you are not rightly dividing the scriptures. Even if Jesus was preaching to the uncircumcision at that time (which he was not) he clearly stated that no one, not even him, but his FATHER alone knew the time he would return.

Stop listening to that apostate preacher of yours, crack out the scriptures and learn to rightly divide the Word of Truth.

2 Tim. 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

-- Bruce W. Roeser (broeser@ccgnv.net), November 27, 1999.

A big "Amen" to you, Constance :)

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), November 27, 1999.

Ignorance by choice. This person has a Bible, can get one, but chooses to have someone tell him what it says. I realize this is a troll but for those who really do operate in this manner, you are ignorant by choice. You are the manna in a field of hungry beasts. You give yourselves freely to be fed upon by those who will take what they can. But, I guess you do help complete the life cycle. I am just suprised that this person has remained in the gene pool for as long as he has...

-- Rob (maxovrdrv51@hotmail.com), November 28, 1999.

I sure hope "Bill" comes back to read these posts.

I have five Children, seven grandchildren and took care of a couple hundred over the years (23) when I operated a Day-Care center. One thing I learned is that NO ONE responds well to criticism, even adults.

Bill will be O.K. when he discovers what the scriptures really say.

Something I would like to share with all of you is a book written by someone in my church, titled 'Technology in Prophesy' by Charles Miller. He is a Systems Analyst for Michigan National Bank - - the largest bank in Michigan - - ( Michigan National is now owned by The Bank of Australia ) - - and he has worked with computers for over thirty years. He is also a Bible Scholar and when I saw the timeline of events he has outlined, I was thrilled. I have been waiting for forty years ( since becoming a Christian at age 26 ) for this information. And here he's been teaching this course in my church for nine years! I didn't want to go to church as early as he teaches the course, so I never paid any attention to what classes were taught that early. Also, I wasn't really interested in computers until I took a couple of courses and then went to a Y2K class in March at my church. This instructor told us about Mr. Miller. Mr. Miller has appeared on various Christian TV/radio outlets. Anyway, he says that people who know anything about money know for sure that there is a tremendous problem with the CDC or they wouldn't be spending all this money to fix it.

But to get to why I've mentioned this:

His course is free on the Internet at:

http://www.tip.org

There are 50 lessons, all very carefully laid out from scripture, with a timeline of the prophesies that have been fulfilled in this century. Hepublished this book ten years ago with the help of a former employee of Zondervan in Grand Rapids. This other person was urging him to put his thirty years of intensive study on prophesy into book form and helped him do it. He sells it in his classes for $5.00 ( it costs $5.26 to produce ) and on the 'Net it's $10.00. I go to a kind of 'Yuppie' church in a college town and many of our congregants are either professors at Michigan State or students. We have a large International Group. I'm telling you this so that you can decide for yourself whether reading this free material is worth your while. to me, it is invaluable. The Chuch is Inter- Denominational with people from all sorts of conservative backgrounds attending.

The lessons are not in numerical order, so that is the only problem I had in printing it. Each lesson is 2-3 pages to 6-7 pages long, so it takes quite a bit of paper.

The references to Red China and Russia and Iraq are amazing when one considers that this was published 10 tears ago - - and written over a period of thirty years.

I'll close now, and appreciate all of the knowledgeable posts her and appreciate your nice words, John Whitley.

-- Constance A. Iversen - "Connie" (hive@gte.net), November 28, 1999.

Bill in one hundred years everyone posting here will have died. We will know more then about the love of the Creator, but you don't belive now in the creator do you?

-- PD (PaulDMaher@att.worldnet.com), November 28, 1999.

Didn't Christians invent computers, electricity, cars, air planes, etc?

I forgive you.

-- GoldReal (GoldReal@aol.com), November 28, 1999.

Lord Buddha would tell us that it doesn't particularly matter and we should concentrate on your breathing.Mindfulness,don'cha know.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), November 28, 1999.

Our preacher says that the rich cant go to heaven and we should give up all our belongings now. So we have been sending all our money to the Jesus 2000 Charity.

(1 Pet 5:2 KJV) "Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;"

(1 Pet 5:3 KJV) "Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock."

(1 Pet 5:4 KJV) "And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away."

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), November 28, 1999.

Mark, you took those verses out of context, and thus came to an incorrect conclusion.

1. The passage is to and about Church ELDERS, and not to the general congregation.

2. As a consequence, the feeding spoken of there is SPIRITUAL, not physical. The 1Pe 5 passage does not suggest that members of the congregation pauperize their families to feed others.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), November 28, 1999.

Constance, there is another book that shows in even more detail the fulfillments of Bible prophecy in this century, particularly as related to the radical Muslims, Israel, and the Middle East. It also discusses the persecution of the true Church in the West during these end-times.

"Sozo, Survival Guide for a Remnant Church," by E. H. Skolfield, available at Amazon.com

That book is a tour-de-force of Bible and historic research, and revelatory in scope. It could be the death knell for many of the unsupportable end-time fables in vogue today.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), November 28, 1999.

Elskon,

"Mark, you took those verses out of context, and thus came to an incorrect conclusion. 1. The passage is to and about Church ELDERS, and not to the general congregation."

It is the Church Elders who are taking the money from the people! "filthy lucre" is the point. I am not out of context. I came into a church that did the same thing a few years prior to my joining them, they ruined many families and kept the money. Later the kicked me out of the church because I "Dared to defy the Apostle of God!" Many PREACHERS will have a lot of explaining to do over their greed, and ignorance of the Scriptures.

And when was the "general congregation" ever excluded from knowing the truth of the Scripture? During and after the dark ages. Remember the "little book" mentioned in Revelations? Used to be only the "clergy" had access to the Bible, Gutenbergs printing press was first used to print the Bible and later King James began to distribute the Bible to the "lay" people, much to the chagrine of the "clergy".

(Rev 2:2 KJV) "I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"

Definition of apostles: 652. apostolos, ap-os'-tol-os; from G649; a delegate; spec. an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ ["apostle"] (with miraculous powers):-- apostle, messenger, he that is sent.

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), November 28, 1999.

OK, folks, we kid you not, this just popped up on AP Breaking News:

[ Fair Use: For Educational/Research Purposes Only ]

{ Anybody seen Andy lately ;^}

[ one naked man with a sword, and everybody stampeding -- sheesh, he could not have been so hard to overcome. Talk about the herd ... ]

11/28/99 -- 10:01 AM

Naked man attacks church congregation with sword; 9 injured

LONDON (AP) - A naked man armed with a sword burst into a south London church during Mass Sunday and attacked members of the congregation. Nine people were injured, some seriously, police reported.

Six of the injured suffered stab wounds, while three others were hurt in the commotion when worshippers fled in panic from St. Andrew's Roman Catholic Church, in Thornton Heath, a London suburb.

Members of the congregation overpowered the man before police arrested him.

``I understand the priest was half way through Mass when the naked man came running in at the back of the church,'' said the Rev. Father William Agley, one of the priests in the parish. ``He was shouting and brandishing a weapon which people described as a sword.''

The injured - all adults - were brought to a nearby hospital.

Officials at Mayday Hospital said one of the injured underwent surgery, while two other stab victims were expected to undergo surgery. The three other stab victims received less serious injuries.

The injuries of the other three victims included a broken leg and a sprained ankle.

The children from the congregation were at a separate service in the parish hall when the man burst in.

``The children were preparing to come back and were in the hall when it happened, so luckily none was injured,'' said Father Agley.

He said the attacker was unknown to the priests in the parish, and members of the congregation said they had never seen him before.

``We really have no idea where he came from,'' Father Agley told reporters.

Fred Rebello, who was outside the church, said he heard screams and saw people rushing from the church.

``I realized that something awful had happened,'' said Rebello.

``People were stampeding out of the main exit ... They were all a bit hysterical.''

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 28, 1999.

To Slobby Don, I've heard that the Bible Codes also mention the names of Paul & Jan Crouch from TBN. Considering all the doctrinal errancy they allow on their broadcast and that they preach and teach that God wants you to be rich, this casts ALOT of doubt in my mind about the so called "Bible Codes". According to the original post, those that are rich won't go to heaven, yet, I believe Paul and Jan are rich, yet God wants them rich, are they going to heaven? mmm, this is getting awfully confusing! When December 10th comes and goes without event, I hope that that causes you to do what many scholars have already done, and view the "Codes" as a bunch of hype. P.S. Although I'm sure Jan Crouch is a nice lady, someone has to talk to her about that HUGE purple hair of her's and that excessive make-up! :-)

-- Richard (rubeliever@webtv.net), November 28, 1999.

Richard,

When December 10th comes and goes without event, I'll be glad that I was three weeks ahead of the crowd! I thought the Millenium Bug matrix was not Y2K compliant at first, because in typical Hebrew fashion the millenium digit is omitted from dates. Instead of 5760, 760 is used for the current year. Then I discovered that the code for the Hebrew word for "Millenium" comes up short. If you expand it to the next heh character in the ELS it translates to "Millenium 5"

-- Slobby Don (slobbydon@hotmail.com), November 28, 1999.

<<<<<<
To Slobby Don, I've heard that the Bible Codes also mention the names of Paul & Jan Crouch from TBN.
>>>>>> Yes, and Hitler, Yasser Arafat, King Hussein. Your name is probably encoded there as well. The trick is in finding the correct transliteration of your name in Hebrew. If it's really there, invariably the date of your birth will be in close proximity.

-- Slobby Don (slobbydon@hotmail.com), November 28, 1999.

(bshuk21@aol.com)

THIS IS A FAKE E-MAIL ADDRESS MADE TO LOOK LIKE AN AOL ACCOUNT.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), November 28, 1999.

elskon:

I agree there are many end-time fables which most Christians believe today and among them is that we won't go through the Tribulation. The Scriptures are very clear that we WILL go through at least 3 1/2 years of it. That is why Mr. Miller's book is so valuable ( and he himself says not to take his word for it; dig it out for yourself.) I'm not going to reference all of the passages here; he does that at his site. It's my understanding from another source that most Christians have believed in a pre-Trib. return for just 150 or so years. But of course, NO ONE could understand the prophecies (I misspelled that in the other post) until the books were opened up in the end times (now) AFTER the return of the Jews to Israel - - 1948, I believe. Also, knowledge had to increase a t a rapid pace, as it has since computers were invented. That's why this book, "Technology in Prophecy" is so great - - one can see for oneself with the timeline Mr. Miller has laid out. I've checked the things he's said about the drying up of the Nile, and while these articles on the Internet that I've accessed do not say that, they do refer to the ecological destruction, especially to the delta area that the building of the Aswan High Dam has caused. The moving of the antiquities at Abu Simbel to higher ground for the building of the dam was forecast in Ezekiel. (I hope I remembered that reference correctly.)

Most of the end-time prophecies that we have grown up in the church believing are not true, unfortunately, and the fact that they were difficult to understand is why most pastors don't refer to them much. They were not understandable until the time of the end when the book would be opened up in the Sebat generation - - after the final return of the Jews to Israel. Then several other prophecies were laid out and the existence of much of our modern technology was prophesied. Otherwise, if horses were horses and trees were trees, why would Ezekiel ask, "What are these, my Lord? You will at first be incredulous and then you will see that they very well could be what Mr. Miller says they are. But 'test the spirits to see if they are of God.'

In Him,

Connie

-- Constance A. Iversen (hive@gte.net), November 28, 1999.

bill, are you for real? first of all, why are you giving all your money to a christian organization IF THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!!!!!! WHAT IS THE POINT????? YOUR PASTOR IS NUTS AND SOMEONE IS TAKING YOU FOR A RIDE.

this sounds like heavens gate and the problem is: if you are a sincere believer who just happens to be gullible and not know the word enough to understand you DON'T BUY YOUR WAY TO HEAVEN--you are going to be truly disheartened when Christ doesn't return next month. bill, why would christ come when everyone is expecting him??? he even said, "no one knows the hour".

I HOPE TO GOD YOU ARE A TROLL AND THAT YOU HAVEN'T BEEN THIS DELUDED.

-- tt (cuddluppy@nowhere.com), November 28, 1999.

Boy Connie, do you need to read "Sozo, Survival Guide for a Remnant Church." It affirms much of what you said, and then some! If you can't find a copy, let me know and I'll send you one.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), November 28, 1999.

Ok Mark, sorry I misaunderstood you. I thought from your quotes that you were approving the practice of giving away everything in your posession as commanded by some heretical preachers. Glad to see that you stand against such a heresy and that we we are on the same side on this issue.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), November 28, 1999.

Ashton & Leska in Cascadia. Where is Klintonoff when we need him? Surely, he hasn't been informed of this dastardly sword attack on defenseless civilians or he would pe petitioning Congress to ban swords. After all, think of the children who were injured. We must indeed form an anti-sword lobby right away to stop this unwarranted use of swords.

Better yet, we need a background check and should register and fingerprint all sword owners. Furthermore, we should only sell swords to prospective buyers after a three day waiting period.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), November 28, 1999.

Thank you, elskon, for the info about that book. I've ordered it and they say a 24 hour sending time. I am very interested in this subject (end-time prophecy). Also, I made an incorrect reference when I mentioned the moving of the idols and temples of Abu Simbel; it was Isaiah 19, not Ezekiel. This happened in the mid-60s.

Thank you for your posts.

-- Constance A. Iversen (hive@gte.net), November 28, 1999.