If the worse case does happen and the gov. fails etc. We all come out start seeking out other survivors.

When will the act of taking what once belonged to someone who is not around anymore not be considered looting but sifting through the ruins and salvaging what is left that society once had, to be able to rebuild a new society?

What signs, other than there not being someone there to shoot you, will we know it is ok to start rebuilding from the ruins using recycled goods from the ruins?

-- Obo (susanwater@excite.com), November 27, 1999

Answers

When martial law has already broken down, the free-for-all begins.

-- Slobby Don (slobbydon@hotmail.com), November 27, 1999.

Totally idiotic question. Proof that we've all seen WAY too many movies.

Besides, what's great about "Road Warrior" is how ridiculous the whole thing is. Gasoline is precious, but they spend all their waking hours driving their motorcycles around & around in circles. And this all happens in the middle of nowhere, the Aussie desert, where there's no food or water... uhhhh.... Hello?

-- but didn't (Mel@look.great), November 27, 1999.

You know I don't get some of you guys.

You have been talking for months about how things are going to fall apart and the "mobs from the cities are going to loot and burn, kill and destroy" then when I say look at the outcome and what are possiblities, if this happens, you say it is an idiotic question.

If it is an idiotic question then all your end of the world comments have been idiotic too I guess, since all of them are the same vein the start of the ruin.

Now are the mobs going to go on a rampage and tear down society so it has to be rebuilt or not?

If not then why do you keep talking about it?

If so then what are you so unwilling to face that "someone" will have to rebuild from the ruins.

I think start the plans now instead of later?

Always have a plan and a back up plan.

-- Obo (susanwater@excite.com), November 27, 1999.

Obo,

I think you will know the difference, if it should reach that stage.

-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), November 27, 1999.

Obo,

It would be dangerous in the extreme to go wandering around the countryside looking for abondoned places to salvage. Scavengers would likely be shot without warning if they stumbled upon someone's hide out. Plus the country it'd be infested with wild dogs and bandits.

City ruins would be a nightmare of disease, toxic spills, things that might explode or collapse. I doubt very many people will want to risk their lives to go "Tomb Raiding" in whatever's left cities or industrial areas.

-- Ocotillo (peeling@out.===), November 27, 1999.

OH, LINKMEISTER, LINKMEISTER< perhaps you can find and link to the previous discussion (no conclusion reached IRRC but GOOD discussion of tort liability) on this one??

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), November 27, 1999.

Depending on the scenario I do think in some cases it would be legal. I don't think it'd be a few random people but more like a Mayor and City Council given permission in an isolated community no one could reach. That would also mean the Sheriff or local police would be over seeing it as well. If Bob of Bob Wood Cut dies, it's 25 degrees below zero and the people in a life threatening danger, yes, I think the Mayor wil be given permission to "loot" the Bob Wood Cut business. I think household pantry searches would be legal if several blocks died of the cold and the survivors needed any remaning food.

My guess is that there wouldn't be "signs." One would be following instructions given from over a radio or some form of communication.

Depending on the area, there are laws, that say if you're dying out in a storm, you can help yourself to the stocked unoccupied cabin.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 27, 1999.

Ocotillo and Paula both good points.

There might not just be dogs but bear, lions, elephants and snakes too in areas around Zoo's. I wonder if they have any plans to put the animals out if something like this happens or will they release the animals or just let them starve and then the animals may work harder to find a way out.

Could be toxic spills anywhere nowdays so you never know if what you are picking up is bad news.

If some form of gov. is left in one area under current laws would they go into another town and pick through, I don't know. I think they would wait to see if there was a higher gov. power to resolve the question of if they were permitted to do this. By the time they found out they were on their own there would be nothing left because others would have already taken much of what was there except maybe materials like metal etc. that has to be remelted and reformed in a foundry for further use.

If the gov. does go in and take salvageable reusable "raw" materials then it means all current salvagable materials would then belong to the government so would we be formed into a socialist type gov. by default?

-- Obo (susanwater@excite.com), November 27, 1999.

"Now are the mobs going to go on a rampage and tear down society so it has to be rebuilt or not? If not then why do you keep talking about it?"

Personally I've ALWAYS found this line of discussion to be entertaining but basically idiotic. The mob rampage/tear down society thing might happen, in some places; it might not. It's not a certainty by any means. Even it if did happen, it's not a certainty that you or I would survive, or be in any shape to "rebuild." It's just one possible outcome of one possible event that might happen in some places. That's why this whole discussion is dumb.

If your 10-year-old has a fever, do you immediately start planning his funeral? After all, he MIGHT die. Could happen. I MIGHT win a million dollars next week, so I'd better start planning right now how to spend & invest all that money. The Russians MIGHT invade us, gee, I'd better start taking Russian lessons & learn to chug vodka...

Come on. Prepping is good. Planning for "Omega Man" scenarios is just dumb.

-- but keep (your@powder.dry), November 27, 1999.

"Oh! I'm sorry, madam, I didn't know anyone was at home. I took the liberty of letting myself in by the kitchen window as your front door seemed to be stuck. [hiding large brown sack behind with one hand while whipping out ID with other, said identification showing scanned-in medal from Cracker Jack box if you look really closely] I'm with G.R.I.N.C.H., the Government Revenue Investigator Community Helper office. As a way of cutting cost to our taxpayers, we've combined the Pre-emptive Probate Court with the Revenue Enhancement department, and out-sourced to private contractors..."

-- Firemouse (firemouse@fcmail.com), November 27, 1999.

Ok, lemme help Obo out here, as I know exactly where she is coming from. If you try to imagine, say a 8 or 9, and society as we know it has created some enormous tears in the fabric. You are living in the suburbs. Maybe two or three months have gone by. Say it is April, even. If you are me, your food and water are still holding out ok, the water supplemented by some serious rainfall in Feb and March (caught in big barrels) and by some thoughtful rationing of the stored water. Warmth isn't really a problem anymore, as I live in, let's say Texas. In fact, it is getting quite warm by April. I realize, by steadfastly watching my street and out the back and sides of my house for weeks that there aren't many other people on the street still living. Lawns have grown up very high, weeds everywhere, stray dogs and feral cats running around. I haven't heard the sound of another human beings' voice since back in February, when we could still hear some screaming, though it was hard to tell how close it was.

So you wonder how much non-perishables are on the shelves of your suburban neighbor's pantries who went out New Year's Eve and never made it back (never any vehicles in the driveway). Or say you live in a colder climate and you have run out of firewood and have already busted up and burned all the furniture you could but you now need a new source of kindling to get you through the last of the cold spring spells. Do you tiptoe over next door, maybe under the cover of darkness and armed, to see what you can find? If you have not seen a person at all in weeks or months, what do you do?

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 28, 1999.