I know that some of the moderators do not like Andy Ray, I don't either. I think he's fairly deluded. However, while I personally have no problem with you folks removing totally inflammatory stuff, but please do not delete his JAE threads. There were several interesting responses to him, and I think that's the way it should be handled.

"Bad Company" posted over at DeBunker:

"Andy, you posted a wonder piece on the JoAnne effect this morning on TB2000...which I and many others posted under. In it, you exhorted newbies to look behind the banter to find a track record.

This posting was promptly edited. How ridiculous. it speaks volumes about the board moderators there. Insecure? Slightly.

Andy...please re-post here. This board deserves to see what rated as being 'dangerous' over there."

-------

Although I do not agree with the conclusions that those folks over there have come to, I do agree with this particular sentiment. Please do not santitize this forum of opinions that you do not agree with. It will lose all value if you do that. Get rid of the cursing nasties, that's fine. Do not get rid of the alternative (mainstream?) views. People are capable of thinking for themselves, and coming to their own conclusions. People can and do respond to his lackluster logic, and in a reality based on reality, that's the way it's gotta work.

I can understand the forum moderators feeling like this board has come under attack, and wanting to do something about it. I don't personally have a problem with that. I also believe that most of the people who cry "censorship" have no idea what they are talking about, and are more often than not the ones who do not take responsibility for their words. However, I do not think that that particular post was worthy of deletion on sight.

Please take this in the spirit in which it was intended, and have a happy Thanksgiving.

-- (regular@forum.doomer), November 25, 1999

Answers

maybe andy ray and others should apoplgize to the forum for participating in spamming and dos attacks first and agree not to do it again humm?

-- another forum regular (tired@poor.trollish.behavior), November 25, 1999.

Sure, that would be nice. It ain't gonna happen, but it would be nice.

The point is that a post that disagrees with the mainstream thinking of the forum is not necessarily an attack, even if it comes from the same person. Seeing an informative post (even if the information is wrong) as an attack, and treating it as such, only serves to lessen the dialogue on the forum, and strengthen the debunkers arguement that the forum is one-sided. I see no reason to give them this strength, as there are certainly enough things to be concerned about.

Responding to fallacies with information is the best way to strengthen your arguement. This is not something "the other side" does very well. Take the high road, if possible!

And please, do not be so concerned about your sensibilities. You may have much worse to deal with in the very near future.

-- (regular@forum.doomer), November 25, 1999.

Dear Regular, I owe it to myself to hear both ends of the spectrum. I am not a newbie and went from total doomer 2+ years ago to fence-sitter as late as this past summer, to someone leaning towards optimism now. I disavow the doom message. I have my doubts that 'all is well', too. I have endeavored from the outset to find sources that gave a true rendering of a story---or at least--reported without some agenda, either positive OR negative. This necessarily elminated about 90% of news sources out there. I can filter things out myself, thank you.

After a while, one understands that most of the news reporting relates nothing new, that after 2+ years, very little will shake one's own perception. So naturally, the next best thing was to find 'boards' where info is exchanged freely. What turned me off here last summer was the penchant some posters had about shooting neighbors, hoping for their deaths or demise, and the like. Truly, one would think that if anything qualifies as being editable, this banter surely is. Still, I had the option of bolting to some other locale or not reading such tripe. No editing was needed.

Editing indicates a need to cover something up. I enjoy the debunking board and I enjoy the information cpr and other regulars there disseminate. And I don't remember anyone being edited....and truth be told, I don't remember anyone really putting up much of a fight other than the relating of personal perceptions.

Point is, I enjoy both sites and can make my own mind up. In my mind, cpr and the crew continue to win the argument. And it didn't take an editor to discern that for me.Rational debate, backed up with facts made it clear to me. Here's hoping the powers that be allow all 'fence-sitters' to make up their own minds, too.

Happy Thanksgiving.

-- Bad Company (johnny@shootingstar.com), November 25, 1999.

Andy Ray already posted the JEA info shortly after his spamming attacks

WARNING: AndyRay's SPIN & OPINION: New to Y2K? Concerned about possible failures? Another perspective...

still there

-- another forum regular (tired@poor.trollish.behavior), November 25, 1999.

There are a few people, Andy Ray being one, who engaged in denial of service and abusive behaviors. They were given multiple warnings by the sysops to stop their disruptiveness. They chose to ignore the warnings, instead escalating their behavior. They were warned that, if their behavior continued, they would be banned from the forum---meaning all their posts would be deleted on sight regardless of content. Again, they chose to ignore the warning. The sysops are now doing exactly what they warned they would do. This consequence is the sole responsibility of the disruptive posters. The fact that they continue attempting to post here is just more of their same disruption. Get over it.

-- (TrollPatrol@don't.org), November 25, 1999.

Perspective.

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August 1999

-- (apagefrom@billgates.book), November 25, 1999.

I for one am very pleased to see the end of the obnoxious Andy Ray, who is one of the most puerile, insecure, arrogant blatherskites on the forum. Anyone who consistently posts in large teal green type is only trying to get some attention.

-- cody varian (cody@y2ksurvive.com), November 25, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

The subject of Polly Spinmeisters Seizing on 1999 Dates has come up several times.

-- LinkDancr (addy.available@my.webpage), November 27, 1999.