.....All of the recent threads dealing with the supposed nuclear war scenario, and Russia attacking the U.S. are really getting a little tiring of late. What the couple of posters fail to understand is that Russia attacked long ago, and it had nothing to do with conventional war. It was a stealth war, waged first against our state department, then against every other institution that our ancestors had built up.

.....To put it lightly, Nabi and Nikolai, WE are Russia and Russia R US. .....McCarthy *documented* .....The UN was created for the sole purpose of establishing a global government, and Bush stated back during the gulf war that we, (as in the US), now pledge our allegiance to the UN charter, which was written by socialists. The security chief has in every instance, been a Russian. When we informed them of our plans in both the Korean war and Viet Nam, aws was required, the UN simply had forewarned them, theyd pull back, wed bomb nothingness, then theyd be back in business.

.....Lastly, lets also not forget the Sun Tzu axiom of appearing strong when you are weak... they certainly are trying to appear strong, arent they? *(The opposite being true of the UN)* Afghanistan didnt fall for that illusion of strength, once they found that the Soviets were lying to them all along. If we were on any kind of war footing with Russia, would Gorbachev be sitting in the Presidio writing our environmental policy as he does today? Would we be allowing Russian commanders to blow up our missile silos in the name of disarmament? Would we continue to send billions to Russia today, knowing that they will default? Our leaders are bolshevik-at-heart, and weve long since been sold down the river. Find a copy of State Department document #7277 and see what plans were put into motion by our beloved JFK. Let us not forget that the Reese commission studied the great charitable foundations in the forties and fifties, (Ford, Carnegie, Rockefeller, et. al.), and discovered through their own admission that their main purpose was to merge the USA and the USSR. They actually turned our curriculum for public education over to the Soviets in 1954, as DOCUMENTED by Senator Dodd in the Reese report.The intent was to dumb-down the populace. Id say they did well, and when they say the education department is doing well , it means something quite different to TPTB than it means to all the soccer moms out there.

.....This nation, even without the military, is very well armed, and would never be attacked by a foreign invader in a direct confrontation. They wouldnt stand a chance once they got on the ground. So let us hear no more of The Rooskies are Coming bit, and worry more about the collectivist corruption that infests from within. It already has us in a death grip.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 24, 1999

-- Off (bold@off.now), November 24, 1999.

Thank you...

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 24, 1999.

Patrick, patrick, patrick. My poor, dear patrick. Whatever am I going to do with you? You don't have a clue do you? Your assertian that America could never be invaded because she is too powerful is some of the most naive, wishfull thinking nonsense that I have ever heard. Don't have the time to take you by the hand just now but take a little stroll,why don't you, down through history and see how the big ones fell. They were always caught off guard and quite surprised at how fast their fall came upon them.

Personally, I think the U.S. is going to be a big loser in the middle east in the next year or two. Our armies are spread out all over the globe and could be over-run when all hell breaks lose after the roll- over and the supply lines get cut. Lack of funding, poor morale. A co-ed army is an abomination to God Almighty. Throw in thermo- nuclear war about 3 or 4 years into the future, a few well placed earthquake and volcanic eruptions (pillars of fire) and America is ripe for invading armies of the apocolypse.

But don't take my word for it. Just stick around awhile.

Blessings, sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), November 24, 1999.

According to recent prophecies, when America goes to war with China over Taiwan, Russia will launch a secret nuclear missile attack against the American coasts. Our defenses will not be able to stop the incoming missiles, and America will fall within one hour!

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), November 24, 1999.

sdb...

.....I think that you're the naive one on this score David. Did you read the whole post or just skim it? My point is that we can't be taken MILITARILY. We've already been TAKEN! The world powers are playing you like a fiddle and you're singing their tune, all in an effort to keep you in confusion, (AKA Babylon). Come out of her David, I've studied my history and was sounding just like you back in the late eighties, but guess what?! I kept going, won't you?

.....BTW, You need more work on your Scripture as well...

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 24, 1999.

Patric, been there done that too. I have gone through the we're invincible stage, tne NWO stage, and progressed on to the truth. That truth is that yes the UN was and is a tool for one world government, and yes we created the monster which is about to devour us. The Russians and Chinese don't have the slightest interest in being a client state to a bunch of rich bankers masquerading as World government. Some serious flaws have surfaced in the plan, and the piper will be paid.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), November 24, 1999.

Nik...

.....But you fail to explain how that all works in light of years of "triangulation." The three of them have been playing that game for years, and yes the "leadership" of China have shown themselves to be all-too-willing to play. That's the allegiance they pay for us holding Chiang Kai Shek, (sp?), in check while they reds took control.

.....The big picture doesn't hold up to all the "attack" scenarios, no matter how you play it. The enemies only true weapon is lies, as in "the flood of lies poured out after the woman, (did you catch that reference,sdb?)

.....Your heart is in the right place, guys, but it really is Scriptural in nature. The Father will put hooks in their jaws, and Israel will prevail. It won't be our victory, but the Glory shall be His.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 24, 1999.

And what about that immense, deep oil field which the Israelis will shortly tap? When the gushing starts, it will drain all of the surrounding Arabic oil fields and cause great envy. Imagine when the Israelis hit the eternal black gold causing their Moslem neighbors to watch their oil levels lower significantly!

War is on the horizon...

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), November 25, 1999.

Patrick: Nobody is argueing Ezekiel. We all KNOW that. Yes, God is going to put hooks in the bears jaws. Yes, Patrick, we understand that. We can see that America is already burning my friend. I think that you are trying to fit into your misplaced end-time theology your personal scenario of end-time events. Well I'd like to do that too if God would let me and I think that I'll just exemp my little corner of the world from any and all tribulation. But my bible tells me that the whole world is going experience rough times, tribulation and war and the effects of war: famine, plague and death.

World War II does not appear in Bible prophecy. Nor does the American civil war. Nor does the Vietnam war. Nor the Korean conflict. But guess what, it still happened!

Yes, I understand prophecy quite well, thank you. I'm just wondering what makes you think you're going to watch the middle east go up in smoke from your easy chair and your remote???

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), November 25, 1999.

Patrick said: "Your heart is in the right place, guys, but it really is Scriptural in nature. The Father will put hooks in their jaws, and Israel will prevail. It won't be our victory, but the Glory shall be His."

What do you mean it won't be "our" victory. This is all about Israel (not America) standing all alone in the world. Either America has just been cut to shreds, been neutralized or is lined up against Israel with Gog and Magog (which I doubt and seems highly unlikely). Yes God is going to Magnify Himself and His glory here. Israel will be facing certain slaughter by overwhelming forces but God Almighty (Jesus) is going to take up her cause and God will make it obvious to the whole world that God is at work here protecting His people and keeping His word.

But the question is, my dear Patrick, WHERE IS AMERICA???

blessings sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), November 25, 1999.

sdb...

.....The famine of the end days is not that of "bread" but of hearing the word of the Lord, (Amos 8:11) Ezekiel's "pestilence" as it were, is not disease, etc., but in Hebrew, is Speech that detroys, the flood I referenced above, (have to chase those words clear back to the root - got Strong's?) And why the fixation on the middle east with all of you people? That is no longer the Holy land, but a DESOLATE place, inhabited, (for the most part), by God's worst enemies. That is not anti-semitic, as I do NOT refer to the true Judeans, but to the edomites that hide in the skirts of Judah. Zachariah 5/6 speaks of the nation that would afflict them until the very dusk of this age. Hint: That is why the deceived rail falsely against our brother Judah. The edomites seize this to further their agenda. You're still in the milk of Scripture Mr. Bays, it's well- past time to move on to the meat. You have yet to learn who the players are on this planet. Remember, the "new Jerusalem" was to be the land of unwalled cities, AND have an east and west shore, AND feed the world, AND minister to them; how many more clues would you like?

.....I maintain that the enemy isn't coming... they are already here taking their spoil. I won't be able to continue just now, but please, feel free to continue; I'll be happy to show you the error in your thinking when I return from "over the river and through the woods.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 25, 1999.

.....And yes, David, it was only named "Israel" in 1947... Perhaps you need to read the parable of the two figs? As I said, you don't yet know the players, how could you know the plot? When any man thinks he knows something, he doesn't yet know it as he should.

.....Israel was dispersed... that little plot of desolate ground is not the Scriptural "Israel," they are a people, not a hunk of dirt.

.....To beat you to the punch here,

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 25, 1999.

Patrick: Please forgive me for my condecending attitude and personalizations in this discussion. I get carried away with myself sometimes and it's not a pretty sight. Especially with a post dinner cup of coffee like tonight and I got pretty hyped. You are obviously a brother in the Lord and deserving of more respect. Sorry.

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), November 25, 1999.

.....Sorry, that last sentence should have read, "To beat you to the punch here, I am NOT Israel Identity, but I am an Israelite."

-- Patrick (pmchery@gradall.com), November 25, 1999.

sdb...

.....No offense taken, nor intended, I really have to go for now, but I will return.

.....Thank you for the pleasant discourse, I look forward to continuing...

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 25, 1999.

Yes, I'd agree Patrick. It is becoming more and more obvious that the United States has a much closer relationship with Russia now than ever before in history, and that the New World Order is running the whole show. They've got the dominant control over the poltical, economic, and military powers of the World, and it may be that the only matter we have left to fight for is our personal freedoms, which are methodically being taken away. The people of the World have absolutely no hope of regaining control through military means, and we've all seen what happens to those who have tried to do it politically. As I have tried many times before to convince others to little or no avail, it is my belief that our only hope is to try to undermine their economic power by destroying our current financial system. Without the economic power, there is a chance that they could lose control of the political and military power as well. Destruction of the United States would be contradictory to their agenda because some of their best tools are based here, and the only ones who should expect to be destroyed by military means are those who resist dominance by the NATO nations. The progress of the NWO plan is accelerating, so the course of events which occur over the next few years will be very significant in determining the fate of freedom for mankind. If we are to ever have any hope of regaining control over our lives it is crucial that we act now to remove the financial chains that they are using to restrain us.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 25, 1999.

Patrick: famine, plague and death as in Revelation 6:3-8 "granted to the fiery red horse and the one who sat on him to take peace from the earth and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword. ....a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given ...over a fourth of tthe earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death and by the beasts of the earth."

Israel is no longer a desolate place my friend. God is calling His people back into "beulahland". Yeah, I know, it's nothing compared to what God is going to make it after the Messiah comes but it's a fairly fertile place even now. Even with the drought underground cisterns are mysteriously filling up near the temple mount.

Patrick said: "And why the fixation on the middle east with all of you people? That is no longer the Holy land, but a DESOLATE place, inhabited, (for the most part), by God's worst enemies.

sdb responds: Really?!? Now I'm begining to get a picture here and I'm begining to understand why you are seeing something that most on this forum are not. So in this case I'm going to have to profess ignorance here and let you tell me who those people over in Israel are (I know: Edomites) and where the real Israelites are right now. And I'll wait for you to tell me who the "real" players are as well. I'm sure there are many of us would like to know. You seem to have a lot of special knowledge.

Happy Thanksgiving.

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), November 25, 1999.