I've been following the Y2K situation for the last year and a half. I live in a rural are of Pennsylvania and I've been stocking up when I can with water, canned food, medicine, batteries, candles, wood..etc to hold me over for around 3 weeks. Now, since the time is getting near, the feeling I'm getting is anxiety, fear and frustration. I want my family to be safe and prepared, as any man would but, how much is enough? First you hear 3 days then 1 week then 2 weeks now, I'm hearing 1-3 months. This may sound like a stupid question to some of you but, I'm truly getting worried that I haven't prepared enough. Any advice would be appreciated.

Also, I have 2 children ages 10 & 4. Any advice on what to have on hand when dealing with children. I ask this just in case I missed something.

-- Familyman (lastminutecheck@list.help), November 24, 1999

Answers

However long you prepared for, I would guess the most important next consideration is to have some kind of a plan to activate if you see that your preps aren't sufficient. Your plan will probably not be adequate ( no battle plan survives contact with the enemy), but this is much better than no plan at all. If things are really bad, the ones that will make out the best will be the ones that keep their wits about them. This might be a good time to think out just what people will form your "community" (they may or may not be your neighbors) and start some sort of communication.

-- ivan (ivan1776@ivnet.net), November 24, 1999.

Boy if my area is any example the items will be sacrificed from the store shelves for the major urban areas and their sense of normalcy. To purchase an increasing number of items, I am now going to have to get on the freeway in all the miserable traffic and commute. My area must be the last priority within the chains.

If the gas prices sky rocket can you commute to an area that is higher on the chains priorities? My point being there are so many variables in this. I'm not you and I'm not seeing what your available resources are etc.,

I would not rest easy under anything less than a 3 month prep but that is based on the variables in my own area and circumstances. I'd be the most concerned about food. It's horrible and miserable but one can sit in the dark at night and live to tell.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 24, 1999.

Ivan:

I understand. Never thought of that way though. Thanks

-- Familyman (lastminutecheck@list.help), November 24, 1999.

We recommend two months - one so you won't have to go shopping in December, one to get you through January. Soon as you see real trouble, you'll tighten your belt and go on half rations, so now you've got FOUR months. Magic. And by the end of four months, you'll have worked out your next plans because that's all you'll be thinking about ...

Of course, if you can do more than two, that's great. And if you can have a little extra to share, that's even better.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), November 24, 1999.

I would say this....there is still time to add to your stores. No one knows how mach is sufficient; it could range anywhere from none to several years worth. This being the case, and considering you are still concerned, why not continue to add, within your means, right up 'til year end, or a public run begins, if one does? Just try to emphasize items you can and will use regardless. Makes sense to me....

-- Ed (enopne1@tampabay.rr.com), November 24, 1999.

You need levels of protection. 3 days is ridiculous.

2-3 weeks of complete self sufficiency.

3 months getting by.

1 year planning for "what if things are different.

You probably have the three weeks taken care of.

For the three months get the absolutely cheapest food, consistent with your budget, you can survive on. Sovle the water problem, perhaps by getting a camping waer filter. Solve the sewage problem.

For the year, seeds. Imported things that are important to you. Security from strangers looking for the main chance.

For the kids, games and books and a light source to read and play by. Education could be interrupted for a bit, don't allow them to fall back, as so many children do in the summer.

-- ng (cantprovideemail@none.com), November 24, 1999.

Thank you all!! I'm taking all advice under consideration. Now, as I stated earlier, I do live in a rural area and hunting is my favorite pasttime. So, since food I can handle, I guess my main concern is water, medicine (mainly prescription) and protection.

I'd love to stock up a 3 month supply but, my wallet says "no way".

Again, thank you all for taking the time to respond. I'm new to this forum and still trying to figure out what a "troll" is. :)

-- Familyman (lastminutecheck@list.help), November 24, 1999.

Rice is my insurance policy. Here's how it works...

If you guys can live on three pounds of dry rice per day, then 365 days x 3 lbs per day x $0.20 per pound (Sam's Club) comes to....$219. Now, if you can take a 15% tax deduction (or more) by donating it to charity in the event that you don't use it, then you pushed the out- of-pocket cost of this insurance policy to $186. This comes to $93 per child! If you don't have that kind of resources then I am profoundly sympathetic, but also urge you to question very hard whether or not you don't have the resources.

PS -- Divide everything by two if you wish to use the same logic for 6 months.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), November 24, 1999.

Though far from a comprehensive preparedness kit, one very simple thing you can do for very little $$$ is buy a 55 gallon food grade plastic drum and fill it with several hundred pounds of field corn. The drum will run you $10 to $20 depending on where you buy it and field corn in 50# sacks runs around 5 bucks. Virtually any wallet can stand this load. A lot of folks in the country who keep a few chickens and ducks do this as a matter of course. It's nice to have a grain mill, but this isn't absolutely essential to make the corn useable. It can be ground using primitive methods. The same goes for whole wheat.

Good luck

Doc

-- T.H. "Doc" Toups (ttoups@aol.com), November 24, 1999.

Familyman,

The first thing that we did, once we THOUGHT that we had some of everything that we needed was to try a trial run.

We ate from our stored items for a week, used our stored supplies, wore our stored clothes, read our stored books, etc. Any item that we needed, we first tried to work around (pens, but no pencils) and then bought and added to our stores. We've been scouring Value Village and Dessert for used board games and used bookstores for the great books and classics too.

If you can eat a varied menu for a week, you can probably do it indefinately, starting over on Sunday.

Canned food is king, about 75 cents a pound, on average for veggies, fruit & meat dishes. Figure 4 cans a day per person, add in lots of pasta dishes, grains, lots of oil/butter and you've got a pretty good start.

We figured 5 pounds a day per person for cooked food (count dry as triple the uncooked weight.)

As for a total, who knows. I'd want to make it through to April or May, knowing I wouldn't have to go to town if at all possible. This one act goes a long way towards avoiding rioters, looters, theives, epidemics & no health care. The first few months of 2000 would not be a good time to catch the flu. If you have the option of being a hermit, I'd take that route.

Good luck

-- Randers (coyotecanyon@hotmail.com), November 24, 1999.

Posted elsewhere:

I have an anecdote to offer, but it does not mean that it is indicative of any movement of the so called herd. I was picking up a few last minute things for Thanksgiving dinner late last night (after midnight) and I overheard a conversation between the guys doing restocking. They were complaining that all the Y2K buying has made more work for them. While they didn't want to discuss it with me (they didn't want to talk Y2K with me), I did notice that in the past... there is only one or two people doing the restocking in the early hours, now there seems to be a half dozen people loading shelves up. Of course, this might only be due to the Thanksgiving rush.

Sincerely,
Stan Faryna

Ready for Y2K? Got 14 days of water, food, way to keep warm and cook?
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-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), November 24, 1999.

We, too, discovered the Y2K problem about 18 mos ago and decided right off the bat, that, at a minimum, we wanted to be able to not step foot out our door, barring fire we couldn't handle, or intruders in numbers we couldn't handle, for six months. We reached that level about 3 months ago, and everything we have added since then has been more. I think we have about 1 yrs worth of food in our house, w/some light to moderate rationing (getting by w/a little as possible for the two adults, normal amt for the 5 yr old). Water, maybe 1 yr if we ration very very carefully, get pretty steady rain in our rain barrel, and don't take too many sponge baths (!!!!!! phew!)

We wanted to DEFINITELY have 6 mos, then shoot for 1 yr. AFter that, I have done some planning for self-sufficient living in 2001, if necessary (tho at that point, I have to admit, it will be real tough. That might be when I am breaking out the Dandelion Soup recipe.)

Get as much as you can. You can't get any more than that.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 24, 1999.

When the stores are emptied after Christmas. You Are Done, and the rest are finished.

-- squid (Itsdark@down.here), November 24, 1999.

I cannot stress enough the importance of learning wild edibles. This is a great "insurance" plan in case your stocks are insufficient, growing your own is not an option, and game is scarce.

Even in cold winters there are many possibilities. E.g., eating inner bark of conifers, slippery elm, maple, birch, poplar and others; eating ground pine needles (not just for tea), nuts, maple seeds for cereal and flour, berries, roots, tubers, forcing edible leaves indoors from harvested roots (e.g., chicory and dandelion), grinding and eating certain grasses, grass seeds, shoots and/or roots, etc. And with the Bittersweet (Celastrus scandens), the branches and bark were boiled and eaten by Chippewas. But don't trap yourself with just one or two wild edibles books. Get as many as you can. I have almost 20 at this point, and while there is certainly overlap, they all compliment each other in many wonderful ways. And there's far, far more than this. But always be alert for poisonous lookalikes in some cases.

Also, on the prep forum about a month ago, I posted a recipe for wood (sic!) bread. Also, see my current post over there on eating Quack- grass roots.

And this knowledge should help you to rest somewhat easier.

Good luck, Familyman.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 24, 1999.

Canned fruit and vegetables can be purchased for as low as 29 cents a can but you need to look around for it. I would be extremely uncomfortable if I only had provisions for three weeks. If Y2k goes longer than three weeks, which I think it well, you need to include more canned goods and pastas. Meat is good but children look for variety. Security to children is very important. Eating the same food (meat) may send hidden messages to your children. If you can possibly swing it, please add popcorn, some candy as well as fruits, vegetables and pasta to your preparations. Do you have a Big Lots or Aldi's near you. Even if such stores are a distance, it might be worth your while to make the trip. Children like normalcy.

-- Ruth Edwards (REath29646@aol.com), November 24, 1999.

If you're going for plain stuff, like humongous containers of rice or corn, then get every kind of spice and sauce you can find. There are some pretty good gravy packages that make the difference between plain old rice and interesting stuff. We like Mama Sita from the Phillipines - real zippy. Get Tony Cachere's Creole spice, salsas, all that kind of thing.

If you're eating out of cans, it's still not a bad idea to find spices.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), November 24, 1999.

Paula,

Are you drunk again?

-- Screamin' Demon (prepper@can'tstand paula.com), November 24, 1999.

i have often contemplated what to do if the whole system goes to hell in a handbasket. my preparations, however adequate, will eventually dwindle and i will be forced to resupply. if the local stores no longer exist as an option i am history.

if you have any land at your disposal... consider the option of a garden. we have gardened for years but, of course, with the benefit of tractors, plows, discs and rototillers. these may not always be available, fuel, breakdowns etc. and we have prepared to garden via hand tools. labor intensive is hardly an adequate description but it IS possible and we did raise one garden in the 80s via this method. raise the basic foods and be SURE to obtain good non-hybrid seeds. lay in some fertilizer for the first garden while it is cheap and available. count on natural fertilizer thereafter. store "bug juice" if you believe in its use or learn the natural mthods of insect control. in the times i forsee you may need to acquire some methods to control four and two legged raiders of your garden. the work is tremendously difficult in a hand worked garden but it has been done countless times. remember the non-hybrid seed..... buy quality shovels, rakes and hoes. this is a start.

-- clayton (ratchetass@hotmail.com), November 24, 1999.

Randers, Five (5) pounds of cooked food a day per person? This must be a typo or you will be the largest people alive in a very short time. Tom

-- tom (flstplt@yahoo.com), November 24, 1999.

Simple and cheap way to double (or so) your food reserve: oils and fats. Example: soy oil, 5 gallons (at Gordon FOod Service, Sams, wherever): about $14.00. 5 gallons of oil supply about 160,000 calories -- about 3000 calories per day for over 50 days. Lots of calories, cheap! Easy! Palatable! Will greatly extend your grains, beans, etc. stores.

-- alan (foo@bar.com), November 24, 1999.

Canned beggies are good, plus seeds for later on. Definitely a good water filter! Best of luck to you all. (You can put some stuff on your credit card.)

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 24, 1999.

Those of you considering "hunting" as a fall-back (especially later < b>after you have consumed most of your preps), don't forget, everyone around you will ALSO be "hunting" for food as well.

What happens to all the deer one week after "normal" hunting season starts?

-- plonk! (realaddress@hotmail.com), November 24, 1999.

Look inside your kids' shoes. See where they come from. Chances are it is China, or another Third World country. Buy at least one pair of the next size to grow into, possibly two sizes. Other tips on my Y2k and children page.

-- Firemouse (firemouse@fcmail.com), November 24, 1999.

Re: gathering food/hunting. Here in the Northeast, especiallly when the midday temperature is above freezing, there is a good chance of getting bitten by a deer tick. If you do a thorough DAILY check behind ears, under arm pits and up rearend/genital area (use a mirror), then chances are you can intercept those tiny buggers before they get engorged. Interception after any skin breakage is no guarantee, but it does increase one's chances of not getting Lyme Disease/Babesia/Erlichiosis, all nasty diseases which are not curable except by somewhat lengthy, continued use of medicines. Just a thought, as my husband and I both have been bitten/infected in the past. You can try to shirts in the pants in the boots trick, but those buggers crawl up and if you get one on your sleeve they go for the neck and head. Of course, stockpile that amoxycillin and doxycyclin if you can get it.

-- Tishaminga (steverromano@eaton.com), November 24, 1999.

.....Think seeds especially; where will nest years wheat come from if you don't have a bushel or two of non-hybrid wheat seed? Same goes with corn.

.....Fill a 55 gallon drum with corn to grind, another with wheat. This can be accomplished for a song, if you buy from either the farmer or the feed store. Our ancestors lived on corn meal mush for long periods of time, and some have even managed to reflect fondly of those days.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 24, 1999.

DEFENSE IN DEPTH:

Develop multiple fall back alternatives: Implement Plan B when Plan A no longer satisfactory, ready Plan C if Plan B fails.

Example: HEAT: Plan A Primary sources if power outage - cords of wood and K-1.

Plan B: Chain saw, oil lube; fuel; extra chain to cut more wood if Plan A runs low. Tag some dead fall trees in nearby woods now so you can find dry wood if needed later.

Plan C: Bow saw to continue cutting if fuel runs low.

Plan D: Fuel syphon and locking gas caps.

Defense in Depth creates simpler fall back alternatives in the event that current scenario becomes non workable. Think manual labor.

Chop wood and haul water.

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), November 24, 1999.

As an example of historical prepping consider this:

Moses said to them "It is the bread the Lord has given you to eat. This is what the Lord has commanded: Each one is to gather as much as you need, take an omer (sufficient measure) for each person in your tent" The Israelites did as their were told, some gathered much, some gathered little, and when they measured it, he who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little. Each one gathered as much as he needed.

Think community! Thank God!

Respectfully;

Michael

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), November 24, 1999.

Familyman,

Also check out our sister site...

TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) Preparation Forum (Y2K Prep Only Discussions)

http:// www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic= TimeBomb%202000%20%28Y2000%29%20Preparation%20Forum

How do you know you have enough stocked??

When you can party in 2001.

More is better than less. This year... and next.

Good luck!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 24, 1999.

to the top

-- Old (timer@helping.out), November 25, 1999.

Tom,

5 POUNDS of food a day per person? Ridiculous?

Hardly.

Yeah, I know it sounds like a lot, but think about the average day:

Breakfast would be a couple of cups of coffee and a glass of juice, (24oz), cereal with milk (10 oz), toast with butter (3 oz), two sausages (3 oz) total = 40 oz, or 2 1/2 pounds.

Lunch might be a can of stew (16 oz) bread (3 oz), a glass of juice or pop (12 oz)and some fruit (4oz) total = 32 oz or 2 pounds.

See, we're over 5 pounds already and we're not even to dinner, snacks, candy bars & drinks during the day. Heck, I know a lot of kids that drink 3 - thirsty-two ouncers a day. Thats 6 pounds of nothing but sugar water.

5 pounds of canned food or pasta averages about 2000 calories, since canned fruit, veggies and meat run about 400 calories per can. I wouldn't want to allow less than 2,000 calories a day. 5 pounds is minimum, I'd go 10 pounds including the drinks, after all 5 pounds of water is only 80 oz. Most of us drink that easily.

Good luck and Happy Thanksgiving!

-- Randers (coyotecanyon@hotmail.com), November 25, 1999.