Thanks to all who answered my question about how much bleach to add to drinking water. OK, I've decided I don't want to make mashed potatoes with pool water, so how long should I boil my fast running creek water in order to make it safe to drink? Water is clear, runs over shale. Yes, I have plenty of wood and two wood stoves, one cook type, so boiling is not a big problem that it would be in a condo. Anyone in a condo, buy that extra bottle of water every time you hit the store. God, I'm so happy to be out of the city. Feel safe now. Just had to say that.

-- D.J. Phillips (gardengal@land.com), November 23, 1999

Answers

Just as an aside: I hope that creek is close, like a few yards. Hauling water by hand over any kind of distance is one of the most tiring, tiresome, miserable human activities possible, especially in bad weather. I did it for a single week and never, ever, ever, ever want to have to do it again. Far better to collect run off from your house if at all possible. Anyway, best of luck.

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), November 23, 1999.

Hi D!

It should be at a full boil for 15 minutes. The creek may be clear where you see it but that doesn't mean much. Ours is also, but upstream the creek is used for irrigation and runs through cow pastures (I think you get milk from those things). You can get really sick drinking it (personal not-to-bright experience). But, there are many things you use water for that doesn't require it be safe for drinking. May I also suggest that one of the best field expediant cures for diahrea, one of the problems with eating/drinking contaminated substances, is apple sauce. Apples contain pectin which helps solidify things.

Good luck in your preparations!!

-- nothing (better@to.do), November 23, 1999.

Old SAC Survival school rule: boil water for 10 minutes, then one more minute for each 1,000 feet of altitude. So, if you're boiling water at a place that is at 4,000 feet above sea level, boil it for 14 minutes.

-- hunter (way@up.north), November 23, 1999.

You might consider getting a little $5.00 reusable device called a WAPI, that indicates when the water has reached pasteurization temperature (useful if using solar cookers to pasteurize water). Solar cookers can be made for almost no money, and can cut down on your wood use (or allow you to use it for cooking etc.).

A Simple Solar Water Pasteurizer

Solar cooker order form

Recent Advances in Solar Water PasteurizationBoiling isn't necessary to kill disease microbes

The Solar PuddleA new water pasteurization technique for large amounts of water

Much more info from the home page http://solarcooking.org/. Look at the Documentspage, or do a search for "pasteurization".

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), November 23, 1999.

IF you do need to haul water:

Get a big wheeled garden cart for hauling containers of water.

Even a child's "little red wagon" can be used. But they do have narrow wheels that tend to dig in to soft dirt.

In a pinch even a sled works better than carrying water by hand.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), November 23, 1999.

At the risk of stating the obvious, bleach & boiling only kill micro- organisms. If there are toxic chemicals or heavy metals in the water, bleach/boiling won't help. I hope that "fast-running creek" isn't downstream from a farm which uses a lot of chemicals...

-- Anonymous999 (Anonymous999@Anonymous999.xxx), November 23, 1999.

It never will boil... if you watch it.

(couldn't resist, DJ, sorry!)

-- Sara Nealy (kkkeithn@aloha.net), November 23, 1999.

D.J.

Get something in the way of a water filter. Even if it's just an off the shelf Walmart variety, like a Britta or a Pur, it will remove quite a bit, in the way of chemical contaminents.

I tried this out, using a basic Britta, on water that was chlorinated for storage. The chlorine taste was gone.

Even if you plan on drinking the creek water, it would be a good idea, due to the reasons mentioned in the above posts.

If you don't trust the filters to do the job, you also might consider building a water distillery. A small one can be easily built, using a pressure cooker and a coil of soft copper tubing (The kind used for automatic ice-makers).

This is a slooooow method of obtaining pure water, so the resulting product should be used for purposes of human/pet consumption only. If you have a large family, you'll probably be running the distillery 24/7, as it is.

A caveat about distillation of water: VOC's (Volitile Organic Chemicals), such as benzene and toulene, boil at a lower temperature than water and can recondense inside the coiling tube. This, of course, recontaminates your water. To avoid this, bring the water just to a boil, before capping it, with the lid and coil assembly. Alternately, if you're worried about the possibility of you or a loved one burning themselves, while trying to cap a hot pot, don't start collecting what comes out of the other end of the distiller until about a minute after water has started to drip out. Either of these methods will allow the VOC's (or at least a majority of them, in the latter method) to boil off. And of course, see the above resources on solar water pasteurization.

A word to the wise - If caught totally unprepared, you can probably avoid freezing to death, by wearing a lot of layers of clothes, and burning a candle or two. The food that is usually just already there, in most people's homes, could be rationed to keep you from dying of starvation, for a month or better. However, if you don't have a supply of drinkable water (or some source of consumable liquid), in 4 days you probably won't make it, unless you get an IV to rehydrate you, and in 5, you're most likely dead. If I were just starting to prep right now, and didn't have much money to spend, I'd spend the whole wad on gauranteeing the availability of drinking water.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), November 23, 1999.

A little on WHY you might need to boil or pasteurize water:

"March 1993: an estimated 370,000 people in Milwaukee fell ill in the largest recorded outbreak of a waterborne disease in United States history. High levels of a parasite called cryptosporidiosis entered the public water supply. The Milwaukee Aids Project attributed the deaths of 54 patients to the parasite." Info from OES. An interesting account of the outbreak - and lessons learned HERE.

Apparently one factor that made the outbreak worse was that we are all told to DRINK MORE FLUIDS, when faced with fever or diarrhea, or flu symptoms... but in this case the water was the source of the problem, so made the problem worse. It might be best at the first sign of illness (or perhaps if there is loss of power?) to ASSUME the water might be contaminated, and drink only boiled or pasteurized water.

See also this thread: What would you do if you found yourself in the city,with diarrehea, and hospital or stores had no medicine?

I'm just reading that report on the Milwaukee outbreak. It looks VERY APPLICABLE to Y2K... I encourage all of you to read it [esp. in light of Senate reports that water and sewer systems are not looking so good y2k-wise]. Here's the link again:

Disaster in Milwaukee Subhead: Complacency was the root cause by Velma Smith

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), November 23, 1999.

The limited amount of bleach is not really noticeable after either aeration (pour from pan to pan) or filtration in a PUR Plus or BRITA Plus version filter and the chlorine does the job when you don't want to boil water for 15 minutes or so (like in July).

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), November 23, 1999.

You do NOT need to boil water to render it drinkable. Pasteurization temperature is all that is necessary. That's all they do to your milk and it's sometimes got E. coli and other assorted nasties in it prior to pasteurization. The boiling rule is only because boiling is a sure visual indicator that the proper temperature has been reached. But a temperature considerably lower than boiling will render water completely safe. See the links above on obtaining indicators to detect pasteurization temperature and save yourself a LOT of time and fuel.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), November 23, 1999.