Poisoning Water Supply

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We have a gravity fed water system. We are concerned in the event we are forced to "Bug Out". One option would be to contaminate the water supply so that anyone utilizing it would be rendered incapacitated. Does any one out their have any recommendations as to what could be used to accomplish this?

Concerned Citizen

-- Concerned Citizen (neilw52@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999

Answers

define "incapacitated".

-- plonk! (realaddress@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.

Explain why you would want to do something like that?

-- (...@.......), November 22, 1999.

Any number of materials that are hazzardous could be used to promote a 'scare' In fact, you touched on one issue I haven't thought of before...(Forgive the hubris) If anything, it reminds me of how the fedgov used a nerve gas scare in the movie "Close Encounters of the 3RD Kind" It probably does serve the .gov's puposes if they really wanted to get people out of an area. They would more than likely use the "e-coli" bacteria scare...given the fact that it is well known, and scares the hell out of Joe Sixpack cause even he understands that this is not good. Ebola as another easily recognizable virus/infective agent. Aomebic Dysentary, E-coli Bacteria, Ebola, Hanta Virus, Hemmoragic Fever, Anthrax...the list goes on. Myself, I doubt that they would really infect a water supply. More than likely tell you its infected so's to "Scare ya outta Dodge"

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasan@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999.

I think I misunderstood the posting, but I get it now...and I agree with the others...Why in the world would you want to do that? If you don't want squatters on your AO, just get some signs made up that say something like "HAZARDOUS WATER!!!DO NOT CONSUME!!!", and plaster them to the doors and windows...That'll make 'em think twice...

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasan@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999.

Your kidding, right????

-- flb (fben4077@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999.


I think poisoning your water supply with the intention of doing harm to another would constitute boobytrapping. This has been pretty clearly dealt with in the legal system and is a good way to spent some time enjoying the county's hospitality. Unless you truly believe that things are going to crash so hard that law enforcement is never going to come after you, poisoning your water supply like this is a very bad idea.

Now putting up a sign that just says the water supply is poisoned would be different.

If you wanted to just render the water unfit to drink without treatment then a simple shovel full of dirt (or six) will do the job and won't be looked on as boobytrapping.

.........Alan.

The Prudent Food Storage FAQ, v3.5

http://www.providenceco-op.com

-- A.T. Hagan (athagan@sprintmail.com), November 22, 1999.


answer:

hes trying to fly to hell first class instead of coach.

-- C. Hill (pinionsmachine@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.


If you bail, and have to leave things behind anyway, then leave them in the best possible state. That way, the people coming after you, who are themselves bailing from an even-worse place, will be more likely to stop there and not keep following. Otherwise, they'll have to take the best next path they can, which is likely to be the one YOU took, and they'll be in your face again.

The only reason I can see to NOT do that would be that some of what you left behind is cached for your return, and people who camp at your place might uncover your cache. Ok, maybe that's a reason.

What do you want - scorched earth behind you?

-- bw (home@puget.sound), November 22, 1999.


To All Respondents:

I guess i should of been clearer. I am supposing a worst case scenario where a roving group wish to displace my family from our shelter. In a worst case scenario it may be the only option to bug out or get killed. Do you really believe that one should roll over and allow this type of individual/group to forcibly take over and then DO NOTHING. I am certainly not prepared to give up our retreat as well as all the preps simply because i am outnumbered. Again, I ask the question. What would be available commercially that could be introduced into a water system that would incapacitate (allow the orderly and safe removal) of individuals who had caused this situation.

Concerned Citizen

-- Concerned Citizen (neilw52@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.


Concerned Citizen that would be a war crime, and I must remind you that in some areas during a crises one must take the people knocking on the door in. For instance you can't have someone trapped in a severe blizzard illegalized from breaking into the unpopulated cabin with its fire place and a few food items. There are times and conditions when it is legal to enter anothers home depending on the laws in the area.

You're going to have to be careful about the treatment of refugees or you could find yourself facing charges on a global scale. You can't mow them down, poison wells, or any other such thing.

It is not up to you to decided who, what, and if the "group maurading" is indeed that. To an elderly lady in Kansas 7 punk rockers would look like "dangerous mauraders." To a small town Alabama family 2 black families might look to be "dangerous mauraders." To a resident in Big Bear the trapped L.A. couple in the blizzard would look like "dangerous mauraders."

There probably will be some violent in-home robberies, but that is not going to be so common one has any valid material for overly concerned thoughts and war crime responses.

It's a war crime, because as those bodies lay dead, two 9 year old boys scavenging could also then drink that same water, do you see? You can't do that. It's also against environmental laws depending on the area.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 22, 1999.



Here's an idea>>> Mix some phenolthalene (feen-0hl-THAY-leen) (sp?) into the water. This is a laxative ingredient. I think in Ex-Lax. It can be purchased at chemical supply houses.

After a day or so, they get SEVERE diarreah, which can incapacitate you, let me tell you! Most likely they will think they have caught dysentary or something similar, though they won't have a fever. If they have antibiotics, that won't help them, and filtering the water won't help since it's molecular in size.

After three days, tell'em via bull horn that they have been poisoned, and to come out with their hands up for treatment or they can die for all you care.

As far as dosages, you'll have to research it yourself. I had a chemistry prof who did that to some students that were stealing the lab quality grain alchohol from the supply room for gin parties. The guilty parties missed a week of class.

Might work,

Kook

-- Y2Kook (Y2Kook@usa.net), November 22, 1999.


lol kook!

-- C. Hill (pinionsmachine@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.

Y2Kook, You'er right, the laxative would work best, and you could do it cheap and easy with mgS04 or epsom salts!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember the old time constipation cure was a "dose of salts", it's cheap and plentiful. Your squatters would leave soon and even invite you to take your old place back with their blessings. Sweet and simple.

-- Zeda (rickster@n-jcenter.com), November 22, 1999.

---you throw some dead animals in the water. it's not poison, but it will leach nasty cooties into the water, and give the badguys a real nice visual to contemplate. --now, you CAN purchase quarantine, and biohazard, and police line do not cross signs. You spread these out, up and down the road, at the driveway, etc. scatter a lot of dead critters with their feet pointing straight up right near one of those signs. 99.999% of people will move on to a softer appearing target. now remember, NO lights, NO noise, NO smoke, NO cooking odors. keep your eyes and ears open. GET RID OF barking dogs, they'll give you away. You can stay, just takes determination(and a lot of no cook canned food, too)

ways around everything, and don't perzin the water, you might get to come back if you have to bugout, zog

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999.


You have a water source you would like to incapacitate if you have to leave. I suggest using a "natural" option so as not to draw unintended "official" wrath.

Around here the "natural" spring poisoning method is: one each - groundhog. Most of the time it's a groundhog-inflicted incident. (King of Squirrels, are you part of this activity?) But in certain cases, it's VERY intentional.

From what I'm told, all the ingredients required are one not so very fresh, roadkill groundhog and the appropriate tools to open the springhouse. Nature handles the rest. Maybe your Y2K stocks need to include some freeze-dried groundhog or other such goodies.

WW

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), November 22, 1999.



Concerned C. Be carefull putting up fake poisoned water signs. I always remember the story about the farmer who kept losing watermellons , UNTIL he posted a sign saying " One of these watermellons is poisoned ". Next day a count of the watermellons showed that none were missing. HOWEVER, someone had crossed out the one on the sign . NOW it read "Two of these watermellons are poisoned !". Eagle

-- Hal Walker (e999eagle@freewwweb.com), November 22, 1999.

A laxative was my immediate reaction, too, although an emetic wouldn't be bad.

-- Liz Pavek (lizpavek@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.

Hi Concerned. I appreciate that you are trying to act in the best interest of your family, and I applaud your non-violent strategy, but it looks at though you're not thinking this through clearly. If the rule of law breaks down far enough so that this happens to you, then what good is "incapacitating" looters going to do? If it's too mild, it achieves nothing - we've already established that Pc Plod isn't going to come and lock them up for you. If you severely "incapaticate" them under those extreme circumstances, then you've effectively killed them. I know, it's their fault. But if you're serious about taking revenge on looters, you might as well accept responsibility for your actions rather than looking for a storybook solution. Or not, it's your conscience.

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), November 23, 1999.

Why do anything to the water?. If an innocent person, or child comes along later and is harmed by what you have done, could you live with it?. If you left and the next place you came to was booby traped, and serious harm came to you, or a loved one, how would feel?. Two wrongs NEVER make things right. Always think something through before you take an action you may later regret. Sincerely, HH.

-- The Happy Hoarder (relief@coastalnet.com), November 23, 1999.

"HE WHO LIVES BY THE SWORD, SHALL BE STUCKETH" Words of wisdom from the late, great Fred Sanford.

-- The Happy Hoarder (relief@coastalnet.com), November 23, 1999.

My Loyal Followers have prepared for That Day!!!My newly-Activated Cells of loyal Japanese Kamakazi-Groundhogs eagerly await My Royal Command to sacrifice Themselves in the Eternal Battle against the foul pink-and-brown-skinned Furless Apes!!!Surrender Now!!!Save your water supplies from my Ravening hordes!!!Long Live the Rodent Revolution!!!

-- The Squirrel King (StillNuts@upina.Tree), November 23, 1999.

TROLL ALERT. I would suspect that this question.. like questions about how to commit suicide.. is an attempt by forces of disinformation to document that dangerous ideas such as poisoning the water supply are the kinds of things people who prepare for Y2K are concerned with. It is an attempt to plant justification for actions which may follow. Beware.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), November 23, 1999.

Paula, There are many black citizens in the great state of Alabama. Regardless of what you may have heard ,most people in our state are generous and slow to panic.We even have indoor toilets now!

-- Rosearbor (Rosearbor@hotmail.com), November 23, 1999.

All, regarding the introduction of Phenothalein into a water supply, I would like to stress that this compound, commonly used as an indicator in chemical reactions, is TOXIC. A minor dosage will incapacitate - through the runs, as the poster mentioned. However, they failed to mention that increased dosage is LETHAL. Check out the CRC Handbook or Merck catalogues for the info. Incapactitance becomes murder one.

By the way, knowing the dosage that will incapacitate is difficult, varying between organisms, and even individual humans. Not an easy one to call, but I would advise against it.

-- Concerned Chemist (Foo@bar.com), November 23, 1999.


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