Where are the wistle blowers?

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Suspicion, guesses and accusations abound, but "where's the beef"?

I'm as prepared as anyone, with a 186 acre remote location, diesel generator and enough food and water, but that's our lifestyle, not just Y2K preps.

Where are the facts, the leaked documents from the military, the tape recording of a National Guard Commander telling his troops to gather up the masses? Where is the mid-sized comapny pres. that's decided to quit and sell out since it can't be fixed? Where's the sell-off of insider stock from knowing CIO's?

You see, I can't recall any conspiricy near the size of this one, if it's TEOTWAWKI that's EVER been perpetrated on the dumb masses. Clinton can't even hide his disgusting presonal lifestyle, how could "they" keep every source of verifiable info quiet?

Since April of 1998, I've watched the forums predict the end due to fiscal years, astroids and the market. Gold was supposed to be $1,000 an ounce by now and last I saw, oil is going to be $50 by the end of the month. Wanna bet?

With a track record of zero right and 20 wrong, why do we, as a group still believe all this?

Don't misunderstand me here, I'm still at a 6 or 7, but for the life of me, I can't figure out on what basis I'm concerned.

Is it just me?

Randers

-- Randers (coyotecanyon@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999

Answers

PS: please excuse the spelling, I hit the submit button before spell- check. :)

-- Randers (coyotecanyon@ hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.

YES, it is just amazing you know, since EVERYONE would just JUMP AT the chance to be a whistleblower! I mean, it risks your job, your career, your salary, your pension. It opens you up to unwanted publicity, possibly even lawsuits by big companies that can afford to sue you even if they know that they have no chance of actually winning in court.

"The beatings will continue until morale improves."

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), November 22, 1999.

I am feeling kinda silly lately. I am stocked up to the gills in canned food and tp. I have been "on" my husband to go ahead and get the stovepipe and get it installed for our wood stove. His is procrastinating. I was sooo nervous about getting everything doen and now, I feel like it isn't going to be as bad as I once thought. 39 dyas away and the world is the same as it always is. I KNOW that the whole thing could blow up in our face come January but, man, I agree with you... where is the one person, ANYONE, besides us here at this forum and Gary North, who thinks this will be bad? Is the spin that great? I feel stupid and know I run the risk of being upset with myself when and if it gets really bad but for the life of me... I just don't see it anymore. Does any one else feel this way too?

Thanks for your post

Donna

-- Donna (Donnaeli@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999.


I do agree with Randers to some degree. We really haven't seen ANY of the predictions made over the last 2 years come even remotely true. I'm still prepped, because I believe one should always be ready for natural and/or man-made disasters, but It sure seems like things are looking good for Y2K. Unless of course the entire month of December falls apart hard and fast.

I also agree with King of Spain though. There is nothing to benefit from going public with this type of information. I suspect people would rather ride it out than risk their reputations and careers (and many other things) by being a "whistleblower". There is too much doubt about this whole thing for people to take a stand like that.

just my .02

-- C. Hill (pinionsmachine@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.


There is nothing to KNOW. It's all unknown, which is why we prep. Workers in the field generally don't have the big picture on this one. Reading about oil, I don't feel silly at all. It's a big picture thing!! It's death from a thousand cuts, which is why it's so difficult to comprehend.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 22, 1999.


Hopefully, i prepared for nothing and my 20something children can have a good laugh at dad anticipating the worst. And I grant you most of the time the worst does not happen. So i'll look a little foolish. On the other hand a great deal of money has been spent by business and government on Y2K. There does seem to be beef in what they did. My beans are just there in case there beef turns out to be soyburgers. As for whistleblowers, it is not like someone can go public revealing a conspiracy. There is no conspiracy just differing readings based on the same 'facts" Whether or not there is any public panic in December will not validate/invalidate y2k. Only 39 or 40 days passing will.

-- Noone (no@none.co), November 22, 1999.

How did this suddenly become such a hot topic? There were two threads on this forum yesterday about whistleblowers...

"Where are all these Y2K programmer whistle blowers?"

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001oy5

"Y2k Whistleblowers"

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001p73

Also see these two links:

http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/reports/y2k/1110main.html

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000sP7"> http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000sP7


-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), November 22, 1999.

And let me add to Mara's thoughts--look at the time of year, too. We are getting full-swing into the most commercial-heavy holiday season of the year. Anywhere in the world. NOTHING can beat Thanksgiving and Christmas. Hell, you can't HEAR anything above the constant Christmas songs piped into every public place this time of year (I was just in Wal-Mart, BTW, no panic b/c of movie-- everyone buying Thanksgiving and Christmas stuff). And I am not saying I don't have my moments--in Wal-Mart this am I had a moment of feeling weird when I was buying ear plugs, cheap sodas (we drink it then fill it up w/water), twin sheets, and some last-minute camping things, in case of the need to bug out. A Christmas song was blaring over the intercom, Christmas stuff was EVERYWHERE (why oh why does Wal-Mart not restock in the middle of the night like everyone else?) you could hardly get down the aisles. And it is a WEEKDAY!

I look at these last 39 days as a test. Can I resist giving in to the Christmas Machine? Can I stay on course? If I start to get tempted (such as when I thought about getting my daughter's usual Christmas portrait made), I just tell myself if things are normal at the beginning of next year, I will do all those things THEN. For ex, my daughter's "Christmas" portrait will be in March if everything looks OK. If not, well, I have plenty of pictures of her.

I don't care if people are whistleblowing or not. I think the very reason we haven't seen any high-profile whistleblowers is b/c this is such a HUGE, complex issues. Very hard to see the forest for the trees in this case.

BTW, the reason for not getting the pics made now is b/c we don't have a lot of $$--we can EITHER live our lives like we normally would at this time of year OR prep. Not both.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 22, 1999.


King of Spain,

I find the whole "retaliation" argument weak. It's too easy to release info to reporters like Drudge if you really want to get it out.

We get lots of silly second-hand reports (like the martial-law signs), but no photos of them. Lot's of "I work for a major software developer and...", but no name of the company.

There's no personal risk to surrepticiously revealing this kind of documentation, but these stories just seem to die on there own, without any follow-up proof.

A long time ago, I heard an argument against the possibility of UFO's existance and it went like this: If you had irrefutable proof of UFO presence, how much money would it take to keep you quiet? The answer was that no matter how much you were offered, it would pale by comparison to how much you'd make by being the first person in the world to reveal such proof.

On the other hand, for a threat to work, you have to be theatened and that means the establishment had prior knowledge of your proof and intent. Do you really think that every company spies on every employee to the extent that they have this knowledge? If so, who does the spying, and why haven't we heard about all the internal spies that watch all the Utility employees and quietly threaten them.

See my point? The conspiricy necessary would entail us all.

I think Y2K is like that. The benefit of being the first person to show the huge government conspiricy covering up the imminent demise of the IRS, for instance, would overshadow any lawsuit threat. After all, what would the suit be based on? Telling the truth. If you lost, what's the cost? a few thousand bucks. Do you really think you'd get less than that from the Enquirer?

Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers and Monica are all still alive and well. What they had to say was not particularly popular with the powers that be. They've all come out ahead. Whistle blowere can be very successful.

Frankly, I don't think the establishment is that powerful. If they were, we wouldn't be discussing their power right now.

Randers

-- Randers (coyotecanyon@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.


I beg to differ..There have been a number of those in the trenches who have come forth with info. Just because they don't give the company's name doesn't invalidate the info. Also....there have been so many sell outs you can't count them all. Ane how many CEOs have sold their stocks and run? There was a real rash of them not too long ago.

Taz...who doesn't think that most CEOs read or know of TB2000 forum!!

-- Taz (Tassie123@aol.com), November 22, 1999.



Randers, there is no conspiracy of silence by the government. They simply don't know what's going to happen and have said so many times. They aren't willing to admit that it could get bad because that would spook the sheeple and hurt the economy. Waiting for "whistleblowers" at this late date is foolish.

-- Boy Scout (boyscout@beprepared.com), November 22, 1999.

Yeah, there have been some people coming forward, but they usually do so anonymously, or without naming a company, which totally makes their claims invalid to the majority of the population. They are looked upon like UFO reports are...

-- C. Hill (pinionsmachine@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.

I have signed interlocking nondisclosure agreements that involve a number of companies. I cannot say their names or their Y2k readiness. I agreed to the nondisclosure because my company gains by being able to freely discuss Y2k problems with other companies. I would no more violate that agreement than I would violate ANY agreement, including marriage vows. It has nothing to do with money offered or promises of protection from lawsuits.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), November 22, 1999.

Randers,

The biggest problem with this is the uncertainty of y2k. Yes, things locally with YOUR section might be bad but others might be fine. You do not know what is going to happen. Maybe you DO know that the company you work for is going to have problems. But how much... Where...? How long...? None of this can be said with CERTAINTY.

When you don't have certainty you will not come forward. To much to loose IF nothing happens. So, people just look over their shoulder and take alternative measure's.

And in my opinion MOST of us are HOPING that we are just flat out WRONG.

-- STFrancis (STFrancis@heaven.com), November 22, 1999.


Hasn't anybody seen the movie "The Insider?"

-- whistleblowers smeared (smithereens@not.pretty), November 22, 1999.


Correct Sir,

April 1st---- Not noteworthy

July 1st---- " "

August gps-- " "

Sept. 9th---- " "

oct. 1st----- " "

Gold--------- LOL!! Stock market-- I will say this area looks like manipulations have occurred. Oil----------- $27.00 a barrell---why? Maybe our first real sign!!

Of course as alot of programmers will tell us. The Billions havent been spent on any other date than---1/1/00 which is a few weeks away.

Of course then their is the Gartner group with their predictions of failures occuring with a dramatic increase in Dec. and after. And also Dale Way with his essay saying forget about the Date 1/1/00. Got valium?

-- db (dciinc@aol.com), November 22, 1999.


it risks your job, your career, your salary, your pension.

If they know it's going to be bad then what job, carreer, and salery will they have to worry about in a month?

It would seem smarter to blow the wistle to make sure things that are not revealed are made public, forcing them to get fixed, or contingrncy plans put in place, which would assure a better chance of having a job, a career and a salery.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), November 22, 1999.


Did I hear this right this morning on the TV and radio that the government has given their final Y2K report and they have given several government agencies a "D" in their Y2K remediation? They said welfare, food stamps, housing, DOD and others are not ready. Welfare and foodstamps is a big deal, because if the Cocoa Puff crowd do not get their Cocoa Puffs, you could see some rioting take place. They also said that the electrical power in some cities would not be available. They mentioned Ft. Worth Texas, and Washington DC as target cities. I think the U.S. Navy report is probably right on.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), November 22, 1999.

"With a track record of zero right and 20 wrong, why do we, as a group still believe all this?"

I do believe Mt. Randers that you are finally starting to "Get It"!



-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro@censored.com), November 22, 1999.


While there may be some who would profit by whistle-blowing, I suspect most wouldn't see it that way.

I work for a small company that sells to oil companies. Was our Y2K compliancy checked? Sure it was! We either got a phone call or a brief form to fill out that essentially asked "Are you Y2K compliant?". Nothing lengthy or in-depth.

Considering that the company wants to stay in business, the answer was always yes. [In fact, minor required remediation was implemented after most of these had already been answered.]

No, our company won't be bringing the oil industry to its' knees (we deliver NO goods that are date-dependent or with embedded chips) but I wonder how many other suppliers out there received such a cursory check.

Scary thought...

You're welcome to toss it off as fiction: I don't see anything for anyone to gain at this late date by offering myself or my company up as proof. The story has been told here for years, and I'm not even 100% comfortable posting it without a name.

-- Are you serious? (gottabe@kidding.com), November 22, 1999.


The reason there are no whistle blowers:

All I.T. people are working on independent systems. For the most part They may be doing a professional job adding contingency policies where they see fit. So They have no reason to Whistleblow about anything, as far as they are concerned.

But according to the IEEE this independence fallacy is the problem:

1.1 "y2k compliant" does not equal "no y2k failures".

"If an organization makes all of its systems "y2k compliant" it does not mean that that same organization will not experience Y2K failures causing harm to itself and other organizations. IN FACT, EFFORTS TO BECOME 'Y2K COMPLIANT' IN ONE PLACE COULD BE THE DIRECT CAUSE OF SUCH FAILURES IN OTHERS."

What da ya think kiddies---???? From the IEEE- the largest and oldest intl. non-profit assc.of engineers and computer scientists in the world. (credibility?)

-- db (dciinc@aol.com), November 22, 1999.


I vote with KOS (With all these good posts, I surely owe you a large vat of chocolate pudding by now...).

Anyone who has worked or contracted for large corporations stands to lose a lot if they come forward. Its all very interesting to say that they should, but the political whistle blowers haven't signed non-disclosure agreements. If the company goes under, pension funds are funded separately. Black lists or other insidious types of threats are not fun.

Workers in hi-tech/high visibility jobs have usually had their tail feathers singed more than once. After a while, one tends to keep his/her head down and take care of business. Maybe its a copout, but try walking in their mocassins for a while and you may decide differently. For the same reason CEOs CFOs CIOs hedge on readiness in public statements and SEC statements. Their lawyer crafted, spun remarks have a big impact on potential earnings, they are hoping against hope that all will be well, and their own necks are on the block.

Ed Yourdon had a post about this yesterday and it may be in one of the links that were highlighted on this thread. As always, he is the voice of reason.

So given all that, treat your preps as a form of insurance.

-- Nancy (wellsnl@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.


Remember you from Scary Gary's forums, especially on generators. You had good advice which helped us, thanks.

You've answered your own question if you're still a 6 or 7. Why are you still a 6 or 7? There is a basis.

Uncertainty. It's November 22 and there are STILL rational grounds for intense uncertainty about Y2K impact. At your position, you're hoping for a 4 and (doubtless) believe it could still be a 9. Why?

Rational uncertainty.

As for the so-called failed predictions, this is an old dog and it doesn't hunt for me at this late date. I don't know about asteroids and gold, but I never expected that stuff, nor did many other people. I think there are posts of mine a year old which argued there would never be a panic (could be but probably wouldn't be). I thought the market would go down further than it has over the past six months but never thought it would collapse in 1999 (and said so often).

The big mistake here, which this forum has been making all year (and Ed Yardeni warned against it more than a year ago) is to over-respond to the progress of 1999. Of COURSE there was bound to be great progress in 1999 with lots of good news. Otherwise, what happened to the huge sums that were spent? I'm delighted they had an impact.

But good news, not to mention spun news, can't wish away the core facts of Y2K -- the primary one is that this is the most "wicked" technical problem our culture has ever faced, because it is global, systemic and crosses all industry sectors simultaneously. It may yet turn out that Y2K's criticality was less than some of us feared, but I've got an ample technical resume and I know precisely, exactly, accurately and wisely what it was/is I fear(ed).

And those fears aren't assuaged by all the very good work that has been done this year. Not yet. I EXPECTED it and counted on it all along.

Here is why I'm still concerned and, maybe, why you are:

... the problem is too large for any single vector (biz, gov, media, etc) to wrap it around, either in terms of gathering data, analyzing impact or determining the key exposures.

... the way progress has been reported is too vague and political to inspire confidence in the quality of that progress.

... embedded systems must remain an area of profound exposure until we pass through the exposure window.

I'll try one final angle (realize: my own vector is also just a tiny slice of experience, knowledge and wisdom). "Good enough" has been very good enough indeed for our technical experiment worldwide of the past 40 years. But good enough has relied extraordinarily heavily on date flop. Windows 1998 (which should have been delivered in 1996) can become Windows 2000 .... or 2002.

Y2K can't.

Yes, I know, that's more of the "old news" about Y2K but, you know, it ain't 1/1/2000 yet, let alone 3/1/2000. I'll be delighted, thrilled, even ecstatic to discover that "good enough" was "good enough" for Y2K too.

But I won't be surprised to discover that it wasn't/isn't.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), November 22, 1999.


SCROLL DOWN. We've just covered this.

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), November 23, 1999.

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