I have a GI sister (thank God!) and we have shared food storage & prep informaiton for many months. I expressed my concern about infections this morning and she said I could buy pennicillin for animal use at Quality Farm & Fleet, along with syringes and needles. HOW would a person know the dosage to use for a person? A child? Does anyone know about this? Info PLEASE...

Jenny

-- Jenny (Please Help@INFO.now), November 21, 1999

Answers

Some people have severe anaplyactic shock from a Penn shot. I wouldn't use that stuff......Oral antibiotics might have a less severe reaction than an injection.....

-- mmmm (mmmm@mmmm.com), November 21, 1999.

Jenny, go to this Link Maybe this will help.

-- Rainman (rainman@uh-oh.com), November 21, 1999.

The Y2K bug is a result of the failure of some computers to properly read the date in the year 2000, instead mistaking it for the year 1900. Obviously, this will lead directly to the creation and spreading of infectious diseases in human beings.

-- weare (laughing@you.com), November 21, 1999.

This is what I know: If you are going to use a shot, you should also have on hand epinephrine...for shock. The factories that manufacture antibitotics for humans use the same process for animals. Often it is the same run. There are other medicines in the animal husbandry cataloges. The book "Where there is no doctor" is (despite the drawings) rather a good book, and has lists of medicines and dosages. For a layman, it is better than a Merk.

All that being said....don't do it. There is too much at stake with someone's life to futz around with heavy duty drugs like penicilian.

You could buy the stuff...just to have. But I wouldn't use it without consulting with a doctor. I don't think it is going to be THAT bad.

-- Mary (CAgdma@home.com), November 21, 1999.

Jenny, I have given my goats, dogs, cats, etc, various injections of antibiotics and vaccinations over the years under the blessing, advice and support of a veteranarian. After some time, I was able to do so based on experience, but very, very limited experience, and as applicable to animals only.Still makes me nervous to do it.

Would I ever inject a child, myself or another with penicillin? NEVER. Watched my mother, well into her 50's, battle a server allegic reaction to penicillin from a dentist.

I keep Pen G in the refridgerator for the goats, but I use every alternate antibiotic and management practice to avoid using it on them. Some use it frequently. There are clear statistics that show a certain percentage of animals (goats) react allergically to it, resulting in death. Some anitibiotics approved for a certain species (with % of risks) have higher risks or reactions associated with them for other species of animals.

Great link Rainman. Do a search on the web for penicillin, make up your own mind, and best of luck to you!

Lilly, who still hits a bleeder on a intramuscular occasionally, and has 7 shots to give today... :-(

-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), November 21, 1999.

Penicillin is the great-great grandfather of generations of "cillins", and is not used much in humans because of: 1. Big problem with resistance 2. Potential for anaphylaxis 3. Narrow spectrum in the first place, narrowed further by resistance.

Farm store penicillin comes in various strengths: 100,000, 150,000 200,000 & 300,000 units of penicillin per ml. Some formulations contain benzocaine as an agent to delay uptake. (Long acting penicillin) You have to know the dose per lb and then calculate the appropriate dose.

I see the comment all the time that animal drugs are the same as human only with a different label. Well, perhaps the raw material may have started out the same, but veterinary formulations are truly veterinary formulations, many with carriers or vehicles for the drug that no MD would consider injecting into a patient.

I would stay WAY THE HELL AWAY from veteriary formulations unless you really truly know what you are doing, and if you really truly know what you are doing you wouldn't want anything to do with veterinary drugs in the first place........

Bonus point: Who can name the highly effective drug for pneumonia in cattle that will cause irreversable and probably fatal myocardial damage in humans?

-- JIT (justintime@rightnow.net), November 21, 1999.

Justin,

Are you referring to Tylan? Just guessing, but if you have the information, I think most of us would appreciate hearing it.

My concern is not that people are going to forsake their physicians and head for the barn, but what happens in the case of a biological incident where local supplies of antibiotics are quickly exhausted, or seized by the authorities? If that should happen, yes, I would use vet grade penicillin, and yes, I would be taking a risk of a reaction. Although penicillin does have a rather narrow spectrum any more, it is considered pretty effective against anthrax.

Carlos is a druggist, maybe he has something to add.

regards,

gene

-- gene (ekbaker@essex1.com), November 21, 1999.

Yes, times up, no winner.

The drug in question in the injectable called "Micotil" I think the chemical name is tilmicosin or similar. It's rather expensive and isn't likely to be hanging out in most people's barns. It's also long acting and potent in the sense that individual doses are relatively small volume when compared to say, LA200 (a form of injectable tetracycline). I would find this potency and effectiveness attractive if I didn't know of the side effect.

The only thing in the pharmaceutical section at the feed store that I would even consider being useful is mastitis ointment for infected cuts. Several advanced generation antibiotics have found their way into those formulations and by and large, if they are OK for the inside of a cows udder, they would make a decent topical salve.

-- JIT (justintime@rightnow.net), November 22, 1999.

Call l-800-JEFFERS, an excellent source for your animals and yourself. If you use any medical encyclopedia from your library you can figure out the dosages very accuratly. Many of your vets drugs are indeed human drugs, Ampicillin, Terremyacin etc. Many of the drugs even come labeled in original packaging for human use. A much better alternative would be the responsible use of herbs, echinecia is a wonderful naturally occuring antibiotic. Comfrey is a wonderful salve, etc.. Vicki

-- Vicki (Vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 30, 1999.

Be particularly careful of injecting BENZOCAINE Penicillin (makes it long-acting), for the benzocaine itself is the cause of many serious allergic reactions I have treated over the decades.

Bill

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), December 02, 1999.