IMO, this forum has evolved into something that the good folks at MIT should consider shutting down. Most of the posts have strayed so far from the core purpose that there is no longer any reason to support this insanity. There are a busload of regulars and sysops that have contributed both time and energies only to have this mess get out of their control. I have posted many times in support of reason and in opposition to extreme viewpoints or outright stupidity. There seems to be a new bunch of self proclaimed authority figures that rant over and over about killing off the pollies. These people bring the most inane concepts here and expect everyone to embrace them with flowery praise and congratulations. I ask all of you people of reason and common sense to contact MIT and P. Greenspun and implore them to revisit this forum and take the appropriate action. I expect this post will receive a good flaming and possibly go the way of deletion. In any case, Ive had my say and wonder how many of you feel the same. I will apologize to the sysops because your task is an impossible one.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), November 19, 1999

Answers

Please leave Truth.

It's already gone in public Y2K discussions..

-- PJC (paulchri@msn.com), November 19, 1999.

The forum is working fine. So what if we got a few hours of "instability" today. I dont see anything so wrong that we need to change anything. Outbursts will occur more often from here on out, it's to be expected. Put on your hardhat, its raining trolls around here and its not going to get any better.

Carry on everyone, 44 days to go and we're just getting our sea-legs.

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), November 19, 1999.

Yes by all means lets silence all discussions on y2k. And everybody DONT WATCH THAT SCARY MOVIE.

Your 401Ks will be fine. Your 401Ks will be fine. Your 401Ks will ....

-- a (a@a.a), November 19, 1999.

Philip Greenspun is supporting this as part of his research into the web. His purposes have nothing to do with a polite rational discussion among people who agree with each other about the definition of rational. For his purposes, the wilder the better - more data points, different experiences.

BTW - his one day web course is excellent, if you can catch it.

-- kermit (colourmegreen@hotmail.com), November 19, 1999.

No flame from me, we can take the heat. If the nonsense bothers you, just skip the usual subjects posts. It's really that easy! If you don't like the station, you have EVERY right to turn the dial, or hit the off switch.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), November 19, 1999.

Well, I continue to post as usual and my posts are not deleted. And those who cannot defend their beliefs rationally call me names as usual, and the names are not deleted.

I'm not sure I see the problem here.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 19, 1999.

Truth,

What exactly is an extreme viewpoint? I could bore most on this forum with details of software and what can go wrong or what needs to be done regarding the Y2K problem. But, most on this forum are not programmers or EE's. The concern most have is what is going to be the impact of Y2K on their lives and what should they do.

There are IMHO many aspects to the Y2K problem and non IT posters have contributed greatly to those aspects that are not in the nerd realm.

Now trolls whose purpose is simply to cause disruption is another story.

-- Ed (ed@lizzardranch.com), November 19, 1999.

I have posted many times in support of reason and in opposition to extreme viewpoints or outright stupidity.

That's the problem, 'Truth.' You need to ignore the extremists. Talking about the noise here only adds to it.

Post messages about Y2K!

-- (Y@2.K), November 19, 1999.

Flint

Some how things change and things stay the same eh?

Trying to think of a nasty name for you but nothing comes to mind.

To much effort. :o) Actually flint you are pretty tame all things considered.

Truth (at@the.ready)

another cuban eh?

-- Brian (imager@home.com), November 19, 1999.

Question for SYSOPS or others more knowledgeable about the net than I:

I was unable to log onto this site all day today and most of last night. I just kept getting "server down" messages. This has not happened to me ever(although I used to get the "Server too busy, try back later" messages). Now, today I finally get on, and I scroll down and see all these posts by and about YouKnowWho, and something to the effect that he/she has been posting upwards of 75 duplicate posts at a time. This is apparently some sort of a protest over percieved censorship.

The question is, are these two events related? Did the repeated posts from YKW prevent me from logging on? Any input will be appreciated.

-- cavscout (just@wonder.ing), November 19, 1999.

I think Truth@the ready is really cockroach ken - or at least his first cousin.

-- LongTimeLurker (Lurker@lurk.net), November 19, 1999.

Getting tired of all the wasted time reading this stuff. There are too many threads these days and the garbage keeps piling up.

Stick to the topic TRUTH.

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), November 19, 1999.

Truth,

I, for one, appreciate your idealism. After all, in the final analysis it is the truth that most of us seek.

There are some fine minds expressing themselves here on both sides (and indeed the middle) of the fence. There are also some somewhat unusual minds expressing themselves here as well. So be it.

Seems to me the site is serving its purpose well.

TA

-- TA (sea_spur@yahoo.com), November 19, 1999.

TA

Could not agree with you more. It is the selective deletions that trouble me. Outside of pure profanity with no content, there should be no restrictions on viewpoints. Hands Off or Turn It Off.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), November 19, 1999.

Go and play over at DeBunkers Truth (so-called), where you can spout all of your grievances and outrages at TB2K "doomers" who you think threaten civilization, in the company of like-minded pollyannas that will love to concur with you.

Stop your pathetic griping on this board. You obviously hate it in here, so I invite  no, I implore that you leave this board PERMANENTLY so as to avoid being offended at the posts here.

Go and play with your pals at Debunkie's, where you can spew your views in peace, and without disruption.

In other words, shut up or get out, and if you don't like it  TOUGH SHIT.

Go and start your own board then.

Keep it up Chuck & Diane....they're scared to death you won't allow them to harrass this board any longer.

Gotta tell ya, I'd rather read the posts of Flint and Hoffmeister than the crap from these dispicable trolls.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 19, 1999.

Okay, Truth -- no flame, but an observation;

What you're seeing now (IMNSHO) is a forum undergoing a metamorphasis. There's very little convincing to be done at this point (if there ever was). Sides have been taken, paths have been chosen, and what will be will be. We're all basically just sitting around, twiddling our thumbs, waiting for whatever comes (or doesn't come, as the case may be). Stan periodically points people towards the preparation forum, there's lots of archives available for anyone interested. We're all just listening to the clock at this point.

But in the meantime, people are still molding their view of the future, post-Y2k. Attitudes are being formed and molded. News still gets posted. Opinions and theories still abound. This is an event, be it a good one or a not-so-good one, and I believe this forum -- still -- is helping people cope with it. It's an evolving "community," with a few strange aunts and uncles thrown in, along with the occasional dorky nephew. It hasn't outlived its usefulness by a long shot.

And, come April or so of next year, when the first cookouts are scheduled with ample supplies of crow for the appropriate people, everyone can agree that -- if nothing else -- they learned a little along the way.

Then, we can all search out CPR and beat the crap out of him.

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), November 19, 1999.

Leave if you wish.

You won't be missed; at least by me.

-- Big D (ddac@yahoo.com), November 20, 1999.

Truth,

This is a joke, right???? I prefer civil conversations, too, but c'mon man, this is the internet. You know, The Wild Wild West; The Great Frontier. You can't participate in this, with the expectation that everyone's going to have "courtly" manners. If that's the expectation that you have, man are you in for a rude shock.

Sorry, can't buy into the idea of the forum being shut down, just because a few people flunked "sandbox".

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), November 20, 1999.

Truth,

The horse is dead. Dead. Cold, stone, aint coming back dead. Got it? If you're looking for fairness talk to your mom. We don't have the TIME.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), November 20, 1999.

Oh poor truth....he's crying...look, the poor thing.....what a shame....you mean 'ol doomers, just leave him alone....

Hey truth, stand up you freakin pussy! Mommy ain't here no more to fight your battles! Can't take the free flow of information and opinion? THEN GET THE F#CK OUT !!!!

-- Jack (mercer@usa.net), November 20, 1999.

cavscout,

I was on all day, 9-5 on 11/19 with no problem. Checked in at least once an hour. Not sure what your problem was. Did this "server down" look like a Greenspun message, or a pop-up window? Maybe your ISP had some sort of a routing problem. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), November 20, 1999.

Cavscout

Used to get that message all the time when I went in through the main web page and then to this site (I just use this computer no knowledge of what to call anything). Anyway, now go to www.greenspun.com/bboard-q-and-a-fetch-msg. click and tells me that I may be looking for this forum and one other. Click on this forum and I always get right through. Give it a try.

Truth

Have never had a post deleted and no matter what, this is much more entertaining that watching TV.

-- claurann (claurann@aol.com), November 20, 1999.

TimeBomb 2000 Forum Posting Guidelines:

 Y2K--preparation and related issues--are recommended discussion topics
 We ask that vendors refrain from posting direct information about their products and services
 Challenge posts with facts or reasoned arguments--try to avoid flames
 If you have nothing of Y2K value to say--lurk don't post
 Post using your own name or handle--stealing may result in deletion
 Once 3-5 regular posters request DELETE--pointless threads may be removed
 Refrain from using profane/obscene language--or post will be deleted
 Don't feed the trolls--please
 Delete assessment of TBY2K SYSOP(s)--is final
 This is NOT a forum for continued religious rantings (occasional on-topic discussions are permitted). Posters abusing this guideline will be asked to cease and desist, and/or their ISP provider will be contacted with a complaint notice.

Problems? Help? Notify Moderators or Sysops at:
y2ktimebomb2000@yahoo.com

 And, please categorize your new posts

NEW TBY2K POLICY: Trolls Will Be Trashed. Keep That In Mind Before Posting. Thanks -- Sysops

********************

My suggestion and opinion to newcomers and to dissenting oldtimers refered to as "pollys" by many:

These guidelines are FAIR and REASONABLE. They in NO WAY stop any of us from expressing our opinions on anything related to Y2K, which THIS FORUM IS ALL ABOUT.

Read the guidelines several times carefully. Then PRESENT your opinion within the frame of the guidelines. Which means that you can say that Ed Yourdon (or the sysops or anyone you disagree with) is full of it if you say so in a CIVILIZED manner and present a CIVILIZED argument to back up your claim. For examples of civilized posters who go against the majority on this forum but are not deleted, see the posts from Hoffmeister, Ken Decker, and Flint.

May I remind EVERYONE, wether you are a "polly" or a "doomer" that these guidelines apply to all of us. Preparers and "doomers" who flame "pollys" with vulgar language and name calling should be deleted by the sysops just as much! May I be the first one to be deleted if I am caught braking those guidelines.

These guidelines are called "Netiquette", they are NOT meant to censor anyone, they are meant to keep a forum usable for everyone, when a forum has reached a large population differing in view points and opinions. It takes more mental effort to think up a proper way to express one's opinion within such guidelines as opposed to just shoot-off the hip emotionaly, but to those lazy intellectually who complain, I say, too bad. You have been given the choice, and you have been explained the concequences.

-- Chris (#$%^&@pond.com), November 20, 1999.

Brothers and Sisters:

It appears Truth has triumphed once again.

+PEACE+

-- Father of the Faith (ImNot@HomeHere.anyways), November 20, 1999.