Has anyone heard about marines in Columbia S.C. downtown? Trying to verify.

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Saw something from usually reliable source about Marine activities in Columbia S.C. Marines & Mayor not in accord, sounded strange, trying to verify.

-- goldbug (goldbug@mint.com), November 19, 1999

Answers

Could not verify the above. At this point I have no reason to believe that it is true, Columbia, S.C. newspaper site makes no mention. Sorry.

-- goldbug (goldbug@mint.com), November 19, 1999.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution had the best article (but some innacuracies, because reporter did not know whole background on this...) one of the best I have seen on this, from last week... you have to do a search at constitution and i think pay for the story... it was posted on another forum. "Warfare training for marines has critics up in arms"

Story from the military is: Columbia SC is a lot like Kosovo or Turkey so good training place ... protest group complained helicopters are hovering too close to ground, pointing weapons at civilians on ground (they held protest sunday, only 10 people showed up)

Marines using live explosives, blanks and chalk based simunitions, city officials told them they could not use live ball ammunition like they had in other trainings in other cities

Pilots using nothing more than rand mcnally maps practicing landing in childrens playgrounds, residential vacant lots, high school athletic fields.

Quite an indepth story, it says this has been going on as practice in southern US since 1985, but it neglects to explain problems in other cities regarding reports of live fire conflicts, or trainings in other cities beyond the south, or y2k training of locals by military reported in some of the 120 cities targeted for readiness by the Dept. of Defense.

There was also local story in south carolina press, but not as good as Atlanta-based story.

-- (normally@ease.notnow), November 19, 1999.


Try this...

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001nsf

-- Uncle Bob (UNCLB0B@Tminus42&counting.down), November 19, 1999.


More info available using search term "MOUT" (suggest askjeeves.com)

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), November 19, 1999.

12 Nov issue of Atlanta Constitution Journal held story. The hype that seems to be left out is that the town in SC where training took place is #1 army town in east US for training. I'm a police Lt from north Jersey, next to NYC; and we did similar training last year. Take anything I say with a grain (OK a spoon) of salt, but it was done to PROTECT INNOCENTS, not invade our homes and grab guns & grub.

Remember the World Trade Center....

-- RJ (LtPita@aol.com), November 19, 1999.



RJ:

I think the point of all this is that with such training, the increased and IMO unconstitutional use of the military in civilian law enforcement is that government authoritarians CAN and WOULD use these forces to STEAL supplies (guns, grub, fuel, etc) from civilians in the event of Y2k or other problems.

-- Bryan (BryanL@aol.com), November 20, 1999.


RJ,

You going to the Y2K meeting in Westwood on Monday? I haven't decided if I want to go yet. I'm not sure I'd be able to hold my tounge...

Btw, I mentioned this on the Prep forum but on a local level we *DO* have to be concerned about confiscation. I don't think there is enough manpower to do it on a national level, but locally, if you were an NG officer with a school or two full of hungry people, and no food in sight, what would you do? How would you feed them? You would send 10-12 guys out with orders 'not to come back without a few truckloads of food'. It's what I would do. If it comes down to it, that's what they're going to HAVE to do. I think .mil knows this and it's at least part of the reason for the all urban training.

On a seperate note, I am very concerned about the militarization of our local police forces. I'm not paranoid, I don't think 'they' are out to get me, I'm not doing anything illegal, etc. BUT to me, as an average citizen, there is no difference between a soldier in the military and a police officer dressed in black ninja gear carrying fully automatic weapons and using surplus military equipment (night vision, etc). Both are paid by the goverment, both carry far more firepower than any citizen is allowed to own, both are using the same techniques, the same support equipment, etc. The only difference I can see is they report to different 'deparments' of the same organization (.gov).

Are there bad guys out there? Hell yes! Do I want our officers to be able to deal with them? Hell yes! Do I want 'soldiers wearing badges' doing it? Hell no!

I have several lawyers in my family and I've discussed this with them. They say it is VERY difficult for a citizen to prove in court a claim against officers who are all wearing masks and operating as a group (which is how many drug busts 'go down'). If a bunch of officers break into a home and wrongfully shoot someone (which DOES happen all too frequently) there is a HUGE difference to a jury between a witness testifying "someone in a black mask shot him" versus "it was THAT officer sitting right there that shot him". A huge difference.

I support our police departments, I really do. They have a tough job and it's certainly not one I would want. But there is already a term for countries where the 'military' enforces the law; it's called a Police State and I don't want to see it happen in America.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), November 20, 1999.


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