Who here will accept a wager of $1000 U.S dollars on the outcome of Y2k? There are a lot of loudmouths here that are sure Y2k will be a disaster and I aim to profit from that ignorance.

-- You Knowwho (debunk@doomeridiots.com), November 16, 1999

Answers

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM FEEDING THE SLIMY TROLLS!!!

Nuf said.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 16, 1999.

Actually, many many people here have put their money where their mouth is. Their spending of money for their preparation is indicative of that.

You sir, it appears, would rather gamble. This is clear - it seems that you would rather gamble with your money and your future. Go ahead and play your games while your window of opportunity closes.

-- Jean (jmacmanu@bellsouth.net), November 16, 1999.

I will.

Let's not limit it to $1000. The wager will be our respective houses.

What we will do. First, we will each write our predictive scenarios. We need to pick an impartial judge, (any ideas, anyone?) who will hold our scenarios until July 1, 2000. At that time the judge reads the scenarios, then decides. Whoever is closest to the reality of the day wins the other person's house.

Let's do it.

It is simply amazing how a little wager can clarify one's thoughts.

Gary Elliott

-- gary elliott (gelliott@real.on.ca), November 16, 1999.

I am changing my mind as time draws near. I have thousands in cash, a wood stove, a fireplace, a Berkshire, tools, food,etc. However, after a year of studying every facet of y2k; I now beleive it's only going to be a BITR and that's all.

-- Not Beleiving (Changing@MyMind.net), November 16, 1999.

I can say that i am prepaired to make a mistake, if i make a mistake i have a lot of camping stuff for next year if you make a mistake you might have to look at your children and answer the question why they are hungry! Thats one sentence that will NEVER be said by my children "DADDY I AM HUNGRY". Think about it . not asking you to do any thing , not asking you to read this list , you are here for something. ask your question why . are you deep down afraid that some of us might be right and you dont want to addmit it so you want others to be like you helpless... You can keep the 1000.00 dollars that i would win from you , and if you would spend it on some food, and some wormclothes for you children. If i am wrong go camping next year.

MONGO In MARYLAND ps i dont care if i cant spell!!!

-- MONGO (mongo2@prodigy.net), November 16, 1999.

Sure! Tell me where you live and I'll send it to you. ;p

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), November 16, 1999.

Ever notice that the biggest idiots don't even have enough integrity to use their own name? What a troll.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), November 16, 1999.

I guess I have put my money where my mouth is. About $200,000. Taken out of the stock market and allocated to money market (+5% this year), Gold (basically flat), Gold mining stock (+9% this year), commodity fund (+35%), BEARX stock short fund (-9% this year). Very carefully performed due diligence on the companies managing these funds. You would not pass that due diligence investigation.

Ignoring the realities of fix on failure, projects failing, international problems, human reaction, etc., look at 3 outcomes: Everything is rosy, BITR, Recession with distributed infrasstructure failures.

Everything is rosy - I bet and I have to pay you, This does not benefit me at all, Why Bet?

BITR - We argue who has to pay whom, probably benefits me not at all. You appear to want to abuse others, Why bet? Recession with distributed infrasstructure failures You havn't prepared and aren't able to pay. You default. Why bet.

There is no upside here for anybody but you. I'd rather bet on the Super Bowl.

-- ng (cantprovideemail@none.com), November 16, 1999.

Deafening silence from YouKnowWho. I await an answer on my house wager. Might you be looking for another pair of socks to put on?

-- gary elliott (gelliott@real.on.ca), November 16, 1999.

You know who: Perhaps unwittingly, you have already wagered your life on this issue.

Godspeed

-- Pinkrock (aphotonboy@aol.com), November 16, 1999.

I will now sing for debunkie....

What goes up must come down, spinning wheel got's to go round, talk about your troubles it's a cry'n shame, ride a painted poney let the spinning wheel spin....

-- For your eyes Bunkie (winken@blinken.now), November 16, 1999.

I AM THE PEOPLE, THE MOB--Carl Sandburg

I AM the people -- the mob--the crowd--the mass.

Do you know that all the great work of the world is done through me?

I am the workingman, the inventor, the maker of the world's food and clothes.

I am the audience that witnesses history. The Napoleons come from me and the Lincolns.

I am the seed ground. I am a prairie that will stand for much plowing. Terrible storms pass over me. I forget. The best of me is sucked out and wasted. I forget. Everything but death comes to me and makes me work and give up what I have. And I forget.

Sometimes I grows, shake myself and spatter a few red drops for history to remember. Then--I forget.

When I, the People, learn to remember, when I, the People, use the lessons of yesterday and no longer forget who robbed me last year, who played me for a fool--then there will be no speaker in all the world say the name: "The People," with any fleck of a sneer in his voice or any far off smile of derision.

The mob--the crowd--the mass--will arrive then.

-- Commit random (acts@of.poetry), November 16, 1999.

Gary, I do not want your house. Put up $1000 U.S into an escrow account jointly managed by my attorney and yours. I am not waiting until friggin July either. If I can continue my life as normal by the second week in January then I win.

-- You Knowwho (debunk@doomeridiots.com), November 16, 1999.

Gary...You may want to take a look at his house first before wagering the bet. Being the troll that he is, his house is probably a shack on the south side of town, right by the railroad tracks, and would cost more to tear it down than what it's worth. I doubt he has any teeth too.

-- Look before you leap (lookbeforeuleap@lookbeforeuleapp.xcom), November 16, 1999.

I Believe we have been asked not to feed the trolls.

-- maybe size (ten@will.work?), November 16, 1999.

The best response to piss-ant trolls like You Knowwho is to load up the thread with poetry and song. (And, of course, mudwrestling if there are any willing chicks.)

Party on.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), November 16, 1999.

King--do you muse?

-- Commit random (acts@of.poetry), November 16, 1999.

King of Spain,

I'm in; was that an invitation?

-- silver ion (toofewd@ys.left), November 16, 1999.

So, Youknowwho is getting cold feet. Confident about $1000, but not your house. Confidence does have its limits, I suppose. Who is your lawyer, set this wager up and let me hear your proposed rules. I really hope you are not bluffing, and wasting my time.

-- gary elliott (gelliott@real.on.ca), November 16, 1999.

So you accept the conditions that if by January 15 I can still live my usual life, (electricity, phones, go to work) and I had no use for preparations then your lawyer will forfeit your $1000 U.S. to my lawyer and I win the bet? I will have to see how much a lawyer will charge for such an arrangement and may up the amount to cover the legal fees. Are these conditions ok with you?

-- You Knowwho (debunk@doomeridiots.com), November 16, 1999.

Now Youknowwho, there you go again, assuming that what happens to your existence is all that counts. You could be living your usual life with phones,electricity, and work, and the world could still be seriously affected. Will it only be real if it directly affects you? How about chemical spills, economic problems, civil unrest, etc?

Your lack of perspective of the world around you is stunning.Think some more.

-- gary elliott (gelliott@real.on.ca), November 16, 1999.

Come on Gary, don't waffle on me now. A lot of Doomers are predicting TEOTWAWKI and death for people like me who do nothing to prepare. So if I survive and am hardly effected I think that proves the Doomers wrong and makes a good condition for the wager.

-- You Knowwho (debunk@doomeridiots.com), November 16, 1999.

Clearly establish your rules, perhaps a measure of the Gross National Product for a particular western country, say Great Britain. If you cannot do this, go away.

-- gary elliott (gelliott@real.on.ca), November 16, 1999.

Why are people still feeding this obnoxious troll?

-- Disgusted (disgusted@trollssuck.com), November 16, 1999.

JM - From Colorado has been busy going from forum to forum trying to get someone to take this bet. He just doesn`t get it,that we are putting our money where our mouth is.FOOD. Get a life JM.

-- SickofYou (fromanother@forum.com), November 16, 1999.

I'll bet a roll of toilet paper.

If I'm wrong I'm out a roll of toilet paper....

If I'm right it's worth more than gold.

Y2K and the internet..... .com before .storm

-- LM (latemarch@usa.net), November 16, 1999.

Ok, Gary, I think I understand Doomerness now. Y2k will effect the GNP of Great Britain and therefore we should all stockpile food and guns in order to survive this great disaster. Thanks for clearing that up for me...

-- You Knowwho (debunk@doomeridiots.com), November 16, 1999.

Okay, I give up, Youknowwho is a fool. I offered to bet my house, he declined,and rambled on about his personal situation not being affected in the first two weeks of next year. No time here for anymore juvenile debating. Deal with the issue, not your love of ignoring salient points. A narrow mind.

-- gary elliott (gelliott@real.on.ca), November 16, 1999.

If you want to wager $100,000 U.S instead of your house let me know. But I am not going to have as conditions that the exports of Guam have been reduced. Y2k is about personal preparation and personal effects. I say it will not effect me in the least. Many on this forum are predicting me and my family's demise. Are you one of them Gary? The conditions are simple. If you want to raise the stakes to $100,000 just let me know.

-- You Knowwho (debunk@doomeridiots.com), November 16, 1999.

Ignorance is the word. Why do you consider preparedness to be idiotic, anyway? Stepping out of the street to avoid an oncoming bus is not panic any more than Y2K preparedness is. If the bus stops or turns you were just wise to step out of the way. If Y2K doesn't cause a big problem, being prepared is still wise.

I hope you don't have children, if you do - you're teaching them a bad lesson. Do you also believe in going into a test without studying? Do you buy insurance? If you do, then you're behaving as stupidly as you accuse everyone else here of being. Note I don't call YOU stupid, only your behaviour. You *can* change it if you want to, why continue to be an antagonist, eh?

By-the-way ... why don't you have enough courtesy to reveal who you are instead of hiding behind your handle? I promise, none of us will bite!

-bruce

-- Bruce W. Roeser (broeser@ccgnv.net), November 16, 1999.

I would be a fool to identify myself. Have you been reading the posts to this forum. Some posters have hinted at killing those neighbors that you have revealed your preparations to so that they don't come calling for food after the rollover. This forum is full of Doom zealots that are hoping for a disaster, and hate anyone that preaches a non-Doom scenario. So I will take responsibility for myself and my family here and not identify myself to these potential murderers.

And I do not perceive Y2k to be a risk. I have read a lot and have personal experience with it being a software engineer. I dismiss sources that Doomers take as the word of God. That is our difference and it will be apparent who heeded the right information in 45 days.

-- You Knowwho (debunk@doomeridiots.com), November 16, 1999.

Deal with the issue, not your love of ignoring salient points. A narrow mind.

LOL. The "issue" started when YouKnowWho posted this:

Put up $1000 U.S into an escrow account jointly managed by my attorney and yours. I am not waiting until friggin July either. If I can continue my life as normal by the second week in January then I win.

Notice that he clearly states the conditions of the wager. Gary responds:

So, Youknowwho is getting cold feet. Confident about $1000, but not your house. Confidence does have its limits, I suppose. Who is your lawyer, set this wager up and let me hear your proposed rules. I really hope you are not bluffing, and wasting my time.

Gary agrees to the wager knowing full well what the conditions are. Either that, or Gary can't read. YouKnowWho continues with:

So you accept the conditions that if by January 15 I can still live my usual life, (electricity, phones, go to work) and I had no use for preparations then your lawyer will forfeit your $1000 U.S. to my lawyer and I win the bet? I will have to see how much a lawyer will charge for such an arrangement and may up the amount to cover the legal fees. Are these conditions ok with you?

but suddenly Gary responds:

Now Youknowwho, there you go again, assuming that what happens to your existence is all that counts. You could be living your usual life with phones,electricity, and work, and the world could still be seriously affected. Will it only be real if it directly affects you? How about chemical spills, economic problems, civil unrest, etc? Your lack of perspective of the world around you is stunning.Think some more.

Now Gary is no longer happy with the conditions he agreed to previously. Perhaps he is getting cold feet. After all, Confidence does have its limits, I suppose.

LOL LOL!!!!

-- (LOL@LOL.LOL), November 16, 1999.

I know. Pretty pathetic. I like how he has convinced himself that it is me that turned down the wager. Typical Doomer idiot.

-- You Knowwho (debunk@doomeridiots.com), November 16, 1999.

'Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it.'

George Santayana, 1863-1952.

The "Doomers" are losing. . .

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0019PA

-- Don't feed (the@trolls.--please), November 16, 1999.

I can't resist... since this is a wasted-on-trolls thread anyway, gotta try the scrolling thingie:

"Fingers crossed, cheeks tight, toes curled, we look forward to that "E ticket" ride into the new millennium."

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), November 16, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

Some posters have hinted at killing those neighbors that you have revealed your preparations to so that they don't come calling for food after the rollover. Link, please. I sincerely doubt this. If it happened, maybe you wrote it yourself.

I would not accept any bet hinging on a January 15th test. After all, the stock market crashed in 1929, and people were still in denial over it until almost four years later when FDR took office. The worst of the depression was not until nearly a decade later, in 1938.

Let's hypothesize for a moment, though about the potential for an immediate total global economic collapse, including worldwide electric failure. In that scenario, how would I get my $1,000 from your lawyer, and what value would paper money have in that situation? In the worst case, perhaps even gold would have little value. Wouldn't it be better for me to just spend my $1,000 now on things that would have value to me no matter what happens? Those who are preparing already are putting our money where our mouth is... literally, in food.

I need your money now. How about this bet. You send to my designee $1,000 cash now. I put a $2,500 check with any professional escrow agent of your choosing, instructing them to cash it and turn the money over to you on April Fools' Day, if Clinton is still alive and hasn't yet said any of certain pre-defined phrases which would be good indicators that something was drastically wrong.

Here are the phrases which I propose would be good indicators: "...Y2K problems would be [ this/so ] [ bad ]" "...lied to us about [ being fixed ]" "...cyberterrorists have [ attacked ] ..." "...only trying to prevent panic" "...this temporary curfew..." "...is a federal disaster area...." "...[ Y2K problem ] was fixed, but..."

My true name and address would be on the check, and the escrow agent would be instructed to reveal it to you only if the banks were willing to cash the check but it had bounced due to insufficient funds in my account. In that case, you would be entitled to an additional $500 for your trouble.

In my opinion, the "Do not feed the trolls!" posts are obnoxious.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), November 16, 1999.

Youknowwho has my email address. He has my name. I live in Parkhill, Ontario, Canada. If he or she would like to continue on with a focused negotiation, they may do so.If not, I will assume that this is a debating society exercise.

I will report back to the list the results. I am dubious of success. I am certain we have expended enough public energy on this one.

-- gary elliott (gelliott@real.on.ca), November 16, 1999.