Okay, so you've come to a decision about who & how many & under what circumstances you'll allow others into your house. Now what?

Anybody got a list of house rules or laws that one might want to post near the front door? I know, if it gets really nasty, house rules are as likely to go out the window as any of our laws of behaviour, but for the interim, ideas?

Say, for example, you have your sister, her husband & kids come in to stay for the duration. Who's the boss? Will you have a democracy or a dictatorship? If your parent(s) are with you, will you defer to them?

Ideas, folks! The time to think this stuff through & discuss with your spouse/significant other(s) is NOW.

What will you do if you catch a "guest" sneaking extra rations? Or making a grab for your honey? How will you divide the labor?

Let's be serious, or not.

-- Arewyn (isitth@latealready.com), November 15, 1999

Answers

We recently went through this with two relatives who moved in and contributed nothing positive to the household in any way. We removed the most offensive relative first. The other relative has become a model of good cheer and helpfulness. You really do need to put a framework of rules on paper and make sure they're discussed in depth with every person you plan to take in.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), November 15, 1999.

I'm still stuck at the getting them to my house stage. :(

I'm trying to get my mother and brother to agree to load up their stocks (ha) and drive over to my house if the power/heat/phones/TV go off. They've said yes, but they clearly think I'm insane. Still, at least I've given them something definite to do instead of panicking.

There's no way they are ready to discuss what happens after they arrive. I'll have to worry about that if it happens.

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

--I've got one for you. Right now, you're setting yourself up for complete disaster, all your preps will be for nothing. The basic rule for survival is be part of a group NOW. Members of the group-friends or relatives-should have been chosen already. Those of your friends or relatives who choose to remain DGI or DWGI get a thoughtful, well written, clear and to the point letter stating that they WILL NOT BE ALLOWED onto your property after a crash, and that there will be no exceptions. This is freekin hard to do, but if you don't do it, these same folks are going to make your life miserable and threatened because they will constantly and continually make boneheaded "decisions",affecting your safety and well being. Just because someone is currently a relative or a friend doesn't mean they can't turn into a predator, or a quisling, or just be such a pain in the ass that it becomes life threatening. Sorry, them's the breaks, deal with it. Sometimes life sucks. Now, for the very best overview of small group government that works(this is my opinion, of course) read Patriots, survivng the coming collapse, by James, Wesley Rawles. this book is where the acronym TEOTWAWKI comes from. it was originally published as Triple Ought> It's an excellent over-all survival guide, the survival information is fairly good in my opinion, and the small group government structure is probably the best I've seen. This is a novel, it's a fast read, and I recommend that everyone read it. It deals with these social issues, along with a lot of other topics. This is not a personal attack on the original poster, this is an overview on a topic I have seen again and again for three years now on the net, and I think it's a real important issue. Hard times, hard choices, hard decisions zog

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

May I suggest a excellent book: Lucifer's Hammer, Crown Books, I paid $5.35 about a month ago, I'm on page 238 and it's very close to what Y2K will be about, (maybe) without all the destruction as covered in the book. King of the Castle kind of puts the thought in my head as to who is in charge, then again the one person who has the leadership/ steel nerves comes to a close second. We could all be living our own Twilight Zone.

-- Judy (Dodgeball@rules.com), November 15, 1999.

I've already told them ALL. And this will be posted on the door.

"To quote Eddie Murphy..."This's mah house...an if ya don like it, get da f*ck out!" You know where I stand. My house. My Rules. All guns to be checked at the door. No weapons issued unless in extreme emergency, or on guard duty. No knives, no dissention. You don't like it, fine. Three strikes, you're out. No repreive. No Excuses. I won't have time to put up with any petty bullsh*t. Screw up and I'll shoot you. To my mother-in-law, this goes double."

They all think its rather humorous, but I have gone to great pains to explain to all of them ahead of time that if they are foolish enough to EXPECT me to provide for them, then they will have to live under my house with my rules. No democracy there. I like to think of myself as a Quasi-Militant-Despotic Ruler. Martial law is in da house as it were.

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan@Yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

Arewyn,

The questions that you pose are the types of questions people do need to take seriously. Whether or not you plan on having people in your home, or you plan on being a guest in anothers home, you should give this idea some long hard thinking.

As for myself, I have made invitations for six others to come into my home if things go bad. One of these families just does not have the funds to store the extra that they wish. I may be able to take in a few others, but not at the expense of my family.

Having said that, I have spoken to the four adults that have been invited. They are aware that they will be treated as guests while they are in my home. I expect each to act as a guest, or they will promptly be shown the front door. The rules of my house are mine, so they can either like them or leave them. There will be no questioning of my authority within my own home. Likewise, if I were a guest in their homes, I would respect and obey their rules.

just my couple grains of sand on the beach we call life

-- (cannot-say@this.time), November 15, 1999.

I think the bottom line is Dictatorship. Someone has to be in charge. I think it ought to be the homeowner, or if that person is incapable, the resident "Alpha Male." Responsibilities should be split up along functional lines. One person is in overall charge, one person is in charge of security, one in charge of cooking, one in charge of logistics, one in charge of medicine, one in charge of water procurement, etc, etc. Decisions should be brought before all of the functional area chiefs for discussion and vote, but the responsibility for the final decision lies on the "dictator's" head. James Wesley Rawles' book "TEOTWAWKI" (or "Patriots," as it's now called) had a pretty good layout on how this system worked in a practical sense.

-- rob minor (rbminor@hotmail.com), November 15, 1999.

zog, I appreciate the note about your intent. I agree 100% that this is to be addressed now, with a cool head and (if necessary) a cold heart.

I'm reading Patriots now. My first reaction to it was envy. We have no group or contact (to our knowledge) with anyone who belongs to one as described in the book. So I think we'll be in the majority of the folks here in that relatives & friends are likely to become relatively last-minute joiners.

I know that it's too late to try to establish a well-grounded, well- organized group. Trust & knowledge of the membership take a long time to develop, and time is something that we don't have much more of.

What I'm hoping for is to hear that others have discussed this issue in depth with their primary family partners, and perhaps with the prospective guests, as well as some thoughts about what 'rules' should be outlined (ie., no spitting on the floor?). Who will enforce them? Who will have the authority to overturn a rule?

I just think that Jan 3rd is NOT the time to discuss this with your partner. I'd be willing to bet that most couples have different ideas about who should be allowed to join, never mind what rules everyone should abide by...

-- Arewyn (isitth@latealready.com), November 15, 1999.

Only my 2 children and 1 other person will be allowed in my house. Knowing and being friends with people but having to live under one roof with them are two different things. Hard times makes some people hard core and most people don't like to be ordered around. Once you let questionable people into your home it will be hard to get rid of them if trouble brews. They may retaliate by burning you out or some other devious act. This is not the time to be the nice guy, you may end up losing your life.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), November 15, 1999.

Ooh I best post my rules in case some hapless comes my way:

Non-smokers stand outside. No pushing the dogs off the furniture. Kittens are not to be let out. No leaving the Baygen "lantern" out where the critters can chew the cord. No eating chocolate where an accident with the dogs might happen. All chocolate is to be kept HIGH up. Very high up. No eating all the good stuff and leaving me with the pinto beans.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 15, 1999.

Easy one Arewyn.

Benevolent dictatorship. My wife allows me, uh, I mean...I run my household this way now & she, uh, I see no reason to change policies.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), November 15, 1999.

First of all, even though Y2k might be only a 4 or 5, you have to toughen your mind and prep as if it's going to be a 9 or 10, because if it's a 10, and you don't have the right mindset, you and everyone else in your house will probably die.

1. Don't invite anyone into YOUR house that you can't control over the long haul.

2. If you are really dealing with a SURVIVAL situation, you have to think of yourselves as a military unit, and a military unit, regardless of size, can only have one commander. If you try to run it any other way and a serious decision has to be made in a hurry, you will have chaos.

3. It's your house, so you are that commander, unless you invite someone in who is stronger than you that you can completely trust with everyone's life! Set a chain of command, with duties and responsibilities of all clearly defined. Sure have meetings, and take advice, but there must be only ONE final decision maker.

If anyone steals supplies, he is out the door - first offense - no reprieve, otherwise you will always have to stand guard over your supplies. If you don't take firm action right away, house discipline will eventually break down, and you'll have chaos. Outside, your thieving friend will probably join a roving gang and tell them he knows where a lot of food is and come back against you, so be careful whom you invite in the first place. If a person is selfish, self- centered or unstable now, he isn't going to get better under stress.

In any military unit, if anyone disobeys orders on the battlefield, he is shot. Same should go for anyeone with grossy inappropriate social behavior.

If you spell out your rules of order and the results of disregarding them right up front, you shouldn't have any trouble. Poor or weak leadership causes the downfall of a unit, not tough rules. This isn't gentle or pretty, but a 9 or 10 is survival, and in survival situations civil niceties are only fond memories.

-- Elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), November 15, 1999.

Check out previous thread.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), November 15, 1999.

one comment--if someone comes to live with me because they didn't prepare--it is my home. my rules. they must add value or they go. no codependence, no welfare. also, if i see someone buying lots of gifts for christmas or spending it on entertainment and yet they say they don't have money to prepare--TOUGH!!!! priorities. my money is worth as much to me as theirs does to them.

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

HOUSE RULES

 

 

1. This household is a lifeboat, not a democracy. The captain makes the rules. Captaincy may be shared. The captain may grant (and revoke) authority. Unless the captain appoints others, the captain is also the Watch Commander and Inventory Manager.

 

2. Additional rules may be made. Punishments may be adjusted to fit an infraction and current conditions, and might vary by infraction or by person. Punishments have no automatic limit.

 

3. The security of the household is paramount. No one shall discuss household matters with outsiders; no adult shall confide household or adult matters to children. No one shall endanger others by act or omission. No one shall render themselves unable either to hear or to help others.

 

4. No person shall have a weapon unless so directed. No person shall be without a weapon when directed to have one. All persons are obliged to keep weapons away from children and from those not authorized to carry weapons.

 

5. A Watch Commander will always be on duty, responsible for security, for knowing the locations of all household members, and other duties as needed. All persons are obliged to consult the Watch Commander when a "reasonable person" would.

 

6. There are no free rides; everyone is expected to contribute. Everyone may be directed to perform assigned chores and/or guard duty. These may be scheduled for any time of day or night. Guard duty is the most important task, and will have specific responsibilities and rules.

 

7. The captain may appoint an Inventory Manager to dispense food and supplies. No one may take food or supplies without permission, whether from a locked space or found unsecured.

 

8. Everyone will ensure that the Watch Commander knows is whereabouts at all times. Each person is obliged to be at the appropriate location when he is scheduled for duty. Each person shall ensure that the Watch Commander knows of duty substitutions.

 

9. The captain determines the appropriate use of alcohol and other drugs, including the type, the amount and the timing. No one shall use alcohol or other drugs when on duty or shortly before.

 

10. Each person shall show good manners, and respect for others. No one shall make excessive noise, monopolize resources, or cause or encourage arguments. Personal property shall be stored when not in use, and no one may take another's property. Personal hygiene is an obligation, and there shall be no smoking and no strong fragrances.

 

11. Parents are responsible for their children's behavior. Parents shall discipline their own children as needed, but shall not interfere if their children are punished by the captain or an appointed authority.

 

12. Sharing this lifeboat is a privilege, not a right. The order of priorities is (1) to be safe, (2) to cooperate, (3) to be fair, and (4) to be equal. By entering this house, you accept these rules and this situation.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), November 15, 1999.

One discipline that will be strictly enforced is no more than 5 squares or toilet paper per incident.To be metred out by the despot (me)

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

This reminds me of when I was a fisherman.

If you ignored orders from the captian you got tossed off the boat.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), November 15, 1999.

Guys...(how to put this)...I'm telling you that even if you know the people well, you WILL have problems come up that you didn't think of. Number one problem is having the 'guest' misunderstand, re-interpret, or just plain ignore your rules. Number two problem is having the 'guest' subvert your authority with the other inmates...er, 'guests'. If we learned one thing in our unhappy time with relatives it was this: if we'd been in the middle of a severe, dog-eat-dog crisis, 'removing' the relative might have required more intense action than it did pre-rollover. It would have been extremely dangerousto us to have them around.

We talked with these relatives for a year before they showed up to live with us. They agreed to everything. They lied. Keep that in mind too, people will lie to get what they want from you.

Bardou used to appear to me to be unduly harsh in her assessments of the situation, but I appreciate her viewpoint more after our experience.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), November 15, 1999.

Helen, I agree with you. Having guests in stressful times could be extremely dangerous. My suggested rules will not make everything ok, they are just an attempt to formalize what is expected. You still have to enforce rules, have to be able to protect yourself from guests who may not have your interests in mind.

We can't tell what we'll face in the next few months. The rules are just one of many tools to manage the situation.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), November 15, 1999.

My $0.02 worth:

1) Zog, in a bunch of generally good posts, your first post was IMO the truest and most valuable with respect to this issue.

2) First question to ask anyone who has announced that they will be coming to your dwelling as their Y2K bugout location: "How many hundreds of pounds of food that does not need a freezer/refrigerator and is not in water-packed cans will you provide as your share? The household standard is XXX, to be here BEFORE you arrive, or you will not be welcome.".

3) If in ANY doubt about a person, they never get thru the door for a single second even once after TSHTF. If they attempt pleas, cajolery, or verbal threats, ignore them; if they attempt to use the slightest measure of force, shoot to kill.

4) Paula: you would seriously consider voluntarily allowing people addicted to a drug (such as tobacco smokers) join your household?!?

A thought for you: (From my "Y2K Prep Supplies You Probably Don't Need " article on my website) "The cunning, deviousness, and total immorality that people display who are dependent on a chemical with respect to keeping supplied is not grasped by most nonusers, and the vast majority of tobacco users (especially of smoked forms) are fully dependent; a higher percentage of tobacco smokers are addicts than are powdered cocaine users. There are people who maintain that tobacco users and other chemical addicts are unacceptable security risks to have in one's household post-1999 due to the nontrivial chance that they will become so desperate for their chemical that they will betray the family's food stockpiles to outsiders for promises of being given some of their drug..."

5) Colin, a possible fly in the ointment in that plan is if the embeds in their vehicle keep it from running after rollover.

Good thread, everyone.

my website: www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), November 15, 1999.

Thanks Helen for your vote of confidence, I know that some think of me as being harsh too, but I've been down the road before and experience does has something to say about itself.

Paula-ROTFLMAO!

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), November 15, 1999.

As a (prospective) foster parent, house rules are extremely important, especially to newcomers. They spell out the required structure, expectations, consequences, etc. In short, they are invaluable for newcomers. But they need to be reasonably complete...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), November 15, 1999.

bw: Your rules are excellent. I hope your guests are excellent too. We were SO disappointed when it didn't work out as planned. We really bent over backward to be kind and supportive while we attempted to get some cooperation, but it didn't help. I guess I just want to warn you of the strong possibility your guests may become a threat to your safety.

Minnesota: The one we removed first was a smoker and dipper. We told him he couldn't do that in the house. He agreed. He agreed every time we found him smoking and dipping in the house. He agreed and didn't move to go outside. We couldn't believe it. He was 100% dependent on us for food and shelter, and he still flagrantly broke every house rule we had.

Bar your doors!

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), November 15, 1999.

Billy Boy - wouldn't that Eddie Murphey quote look lovely in needlepoint, with flowers, maybe a little lace, framed and prominently hung in the guest bedroom or bathroom? Let's ask Martha, shall we? The House Rules by bw are great, but the Eddie Murphey just cries out for some flowers and lace dontcha think?

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), November 15, 1999.