Sigh, as a lurker and sometimes a participant on this board I really think that both the doomers and pollies have missed the boat. Y2K is NOT the biggest danger coming up. You all need to read the post "More on Nukes - the Russian Perspective". NO amount of preps or anything else is going to stop the coming Russian suprise nuclear strike. Talk about DGI. The number of people who DGI about the coming nuclear wipeout of our pathetic defenses and nuclear destruction of our nation is really mind blowing. I am broke with a family. No money to move. Our finances are nonexistent. I'm right in the middle of the Minuteman ICBM fields in North Dakota. My plans for Y2K consist of planning an outdoor picnic in January to watch the Nukes hit the missle silos about 4 miles from our place and to kiss my butt goodbye.

-- We're all toast (nicewhileitlasted@least.com), November 14, 1999

Answers

We're All Toast,

I have read enough to know there is a chance that those in Russia who want to try to win a nuclear war with us will try. But I have one question about this for you. Since you mentioned that this would be in Jan, wouldn't the strike have to come in before they lose their power grid and the computers that run their defenses to y2k failures? Why do you think that this will happen in Jan.?

-- Lora (artemis45@hotmail.com), November 14, 1999.

Don't worry, it only has a 60 mile blast area,

(with deadly roentogen levels at 1,000+ miles per megaton.)

There are two ~safe places in the world; if you can get there.

The one in the United States is in the Four Corners area: the corner of Arizona, Colorado, Utah, and New Mexico.

I strongly suggest you bring potassium iodate, and activated carbon for your gas mask.

-- Laura (LadyLogic46@aol.com), November 14, 1999.

We ship billions of dollars worth of food every year to Russia. They need us. If they destroy us, they will destroy themselves. Russians are not smart enough to produce enough of their own food. However they are not that stupid that they will bite the hand that feeds them. Don't sweat the Russians, they're no threat!

-- bbb (bbb@bbb.com), November 14, 1999.

Laura,

Yes, I noticed that from studying the wind patterns and location of nuke weapons as well as nuke power, except there are 3 power plants west of Pheonix that are very close for comfort. But I intend to head for southern Colorado if I am able.

Have you made serious preps for this scenario, or are you just aware? And what do you think of the question I posted? Don't you think y2k will remove capabilities and cause so much chaos in Russia and China that any war ideas will be moot after Jan 1?

-- Lora (artemis45@hotmail.com), November 14, 1999.

Lora,

I don't know...I just don't know. No matter how much research we do, we are limited (singularities?).

Everything indicates (my education, prior DOD info, reason, & Red Cross charts) that area is the safest.

Meet me there?

-- Laura (LadyLogic46@aol.com), November 15, 1999.

For most of us the thought of a nuclear attack/showdown/explosion is terrifying to say the least. Most people have very little knowledge as to what this would mean to our survival. For example, most people have no idea that there were survivors as close as 1/3 of a mile from ground zero in the Nagasaki attack. And that these survivors had no long lasting effects. Hard to believe.

If you want to know the facts on surviving a nuclear explosion go to the following website: www.y2ksurvival.com

You might be surprised.

-- Damon Devine (ddevine@impulse.net), November 15, 1999.

What is the other safe place?

-- (normally@ease.notnow), November 15, 1999.

bbb, "Don't sweat the Russians"???? You are not informed that Russia, an EXPORTER oil nation, has "imported" oil for the past few years and is not allowing ANY gold out of the country. In other words their posture indicates they are getting ready for war. I failed to mention that Russia, China, and North Korea have formed an Alliance designed to stop America's aggression.

Russia is selling two ships to China on "Christmas Day" ( In your Face America )that are designed to START A WAR. This ship will carry 8 nuclear missiles that fly 50 feet from the ocean at a speed of mach 2 and can render our Pacific Fleet USELESS. Our pilots cannot hit this target!!

China is also is taking control of the Panama Canal Dec. 31st. 1999.

Oh yes, and we have Communist Generals from China VISITING OUR WHITE HOUSE.

Try reading "Year of The Rat" by Triplett.

Y2K will be a PRETEXT to take CONTROL of our lives...just as planned.

"..the LORD has given and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD." ( Job 1:21 )

-- eyes wide open (djwolf@lanset.com), November 15, 1999.

BBB I agree

Laura, don't worry. There are plenty of safe places in the USA even under an all out attack. Read "Life After Doomsday" by Bruce Clayton He to thought a nuke attack would be the end of the world until he started diging up "real" information. 90% of the country would be fallout free. Why? be cause you only use ground bursts against hardened targets (missile silos). Against cities, air bases, etc. you use air bursts. Air Bursts do not create fallout. Some of the Hiroshima infrastructure was back in action in 3 days and some plants were growing in a week.

For a 1 megaton air burst, anyone more than 15 miles away is safe even without shelter. Larger bombs are not much more dangerous. The power is semi-logrithmic.

Example, blast

Brick apartment house suffers severe damage 4.2 miles from 1 megaton bomb, 8.9 miles from 10 megaton bomb.

Windows blown out, wood house lightly damaged 14 miles from 1 megaton bomb, 28 miles from 10 megaton bomb

Example, heat flash

Brown cardboard box ignites 6.2 miles from 1 megaton bomb, 13 miles from 10 megaton bomb.

Been there done that, don't sweat it. You are move lible to be killed by bad water.

-- woody (woody11420@aol.com), November 15, 1999.

I'm afraid you are right.The Nuclear bombs now in the world are not the low yeald used at Nagasaki.It seems not matter what I do in the line of preps.It will all be for nothing if a Neutron bomb explodes anywhere near us.Neutron bombs do not destroy citys, or Air fields.All Neutron bombs do is kill every living thing in the area.Every human,horse,cow rabbit and dog.I understand it will kill earth worms and microbes in the earth 12 feet down.I dont think we really have any thing to fear from Russia.The bad dudes are the Chinese.Then again,why would would they?After all we buy everything they make.Including the Idiot Pokeman craze.

-- Dan Newsome (BOONSTAR1@webnet.tv), November 15, 1999.

I would never consider the Four Corners area to be safe. Having spent several months checking out the area myself (and living very near there in Santa Fe for several years), I would not recommend this area at all. There are several problems with this area.

I know many families that settled there - and left, some after a few months, some after a few years. Economically, this is not a good area to try and survive (assuming life goes on for any length of time). The New Age spirit in the area is openly hostile to Christians.

Many of the so-called wind pattern maps are not accurately detailed that show what would really happen in a nuclear blast situation. Furthermore, the data on the maps is very dated and not up-to-date at all. Friends in the military have a completely different view on "safe places".

There are severe racist problems in the Four Corners area too. Whites are openly discriminated against and crime is a significant problem. I know, from personal experience and testimony from families having left the area - due to these very problems.

There is also a lack of natural resources in some locations of the Four Corner areas, such as water, timber, etc. Not all Four Corners is like this of course, but it depends on what exactly someone means. My definition of outdoor, in the dirt survival requires abundandt natural resources, if necessary, to survive. In summary, Four Corners should be closely examined for it's true value as a possible safe location and not just assumed it's a good place to be. We rejected it - and I represent many, many families.

-- Four Corners (not@good.com), November 15, 1999.

I'd be more concerned if there was a plausible threat being touted here, like a Chinese nuclear strike or chemical/baterieriological attacks from just about anybody. I don't buy the retro 1950's Evil Russki paranoia line though.

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

---russia has been getting almost free imported grain from taxpayer subsidized US elevators/farms, while exporting her own grain for hard currency, banking the difference. Same with all the other commodoties. the russian posture of appearing broke is because the military still siphons off a huge amount of money. Russia has a huge already installed and operating ABM system, while we are still debating if we should deploy one. geez, on and on and on and on, i just don't feel like typing it. anyone who doubts the long term planning and NBC war preps of russia just needs to do some research, the info is out there...gawd.....just look..........

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

It's a good day to die

-- (little@big.man), November 15, 1999.

I hate to spoil the fun by interjecting some facts but apparently most posters here, with the fine exception of Damon and Woody, get their nuclear "facts" from 1950's B movies or professional liars like Ground Zero or Physicians for Social Responsibility. Of course perhaps I'm just not bright enough to recognize trolls? In that case, Hey!, you forgot to mention the 40 foot tall fire breathing mutated racoons with X-ray vision that fart nerve gas! How do plan to deal with them, huh? Meanwhile back at reality, those that wish to learn a whole lot with out much reading go to http://home.earthlink.net/~kenseger/surv/surv.htm and read blastfnd.txt, fallfund.txt, and then 1hrrads.txt for some very concise info.

As for warhead size, at WW2 they started small, became much larger in the 50's and 60's and then started to get smaller in the 70's as guidance systems improved. I doubt that anybody has anything as large as a megaton fielded any more.

Dan, I don't have a text devoted to neutron bombs, but if you read Glasstone's 3rd edition of Nuclear Weapons Effects (available at your friendly Government Printing Office) you'll find out that the range of neutron bombs is very very low, we're talking about blocks, not miles of dealy effects here. Ie. beyond a mile, you're totally safe. Also 12' of dirt will reduce gamma radiation by a factor of 6,553,600,000,000 and neutron radiation by at least 25,600,000,000. Perhaps you were thinking of 12" instead of 12' and only at ground zero?

While we're at it, http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000oYq http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000q7O http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000vKF http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000vD4 http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000v59 http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000puv for more info on matters nuclear.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), November 15, 1999.

Hey Four Corners,

You forgot the other thing. After the Great Purification, if the Navajo (didja know navajo means "apache who work in the fields"?) catch your pale skinny ass out there, you'll be wishing to your god that your ancestors had never even heard of the New World.

Oh, and little big dork, you can stop claiming the words of Crazy Horse as your own RIGHT NOW.

And now, all you white people can go home, back to where ever you came from. And take your shit with you.

-- Walks in Thunder Ravenhawk (in@your.pale face), November 15, 1999.

Dear Colleagues,

There is a difference between fast-breed/steam reactors, neutron bombs, atomic bombs, surface blast, and high-altitude blast. I don't have time today to discuss all the differences, but it is a crap shoot anyway.

If you live within ten miles of a reactor, your county health department should have sent you public awareness information long ago.

Although I live 30 miles from Palo Verde, I've thought about this issue for the last 10 months. My conclusion is: we should prepare as best we can - then let it go. Don't worry about things you don't have any control over.

-- Laura (LadyLogic46@aol.com), November 15, 1999.

Laura,

30 miles from Palo Verde? If I remember correctly, one of your posts said you live in Phoenix... How about you just say you live in AZ... If we ever get people organized for a southwest get-together, we will have to invite you... since you are not very far away from ABQ.

cool???

snoozin'...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), November 15, 1999.

Hi Dog,

I do live in Phoenix. Palo Verde is the name of the nuclear plant here.

Albuquerque! I love Albuquerque! I lived in the Northeast Heights 14 years ago. I love all of New Mexico...I wish I had never left. The weather is better, the pace is slower, the people are nicer...unfortunately, work brought be back here to Phoenix.

Do you remember the old Alpha Beta Supercenters? What type of store are they now? Is Value House still in business? Damn, I miss my old accounts. Have you ever heard of Eddie Baca?

Opps, I just remembered I'm in a Y2K forum. Are tangential discussions allowed here?

-- Laura (LadyLogic46@aol.com), November 15, 1999.

I need more information about those 40-foot-tall fire breathing mutated raccoons with X-ray vision that fart nerve gas. Should we plan another trip to Costco?

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), November 15, 1999.

Laura,

Tangents happen all the time here... I've been here since almost the beginning... Dec'97... tangents happen...

Value House and Alpha Beta are LONG gone. The Value House building on Eubank is a hair salon now, I think. Alpha Beta morphed into Albertsons and Raleys.

If you haven't been to ABQ in awhile, the entire Westside is as big as the city proper. The Montano bridge is complete, the mayor is Jim Baca (MAJOR a$$hole), and the Balloon Fiesta has moved farther north on to its new bigger field.

No I don't know Eddie Baca, as I have only lived here a little over 12 years.

There are some GI's in the area, but not many. The land of manana still exists here. Home Depot was closing out all the generators they had a couple of months ago because they weren't selling. You can buy 10 gallon buckets of beans, rice, and pasta at the local Smith's, and it looks like it ISN'T moving.

The indian summer this fall is really causing people to go back to sleep, and not worry.

PNM says they can disconnect the power plant in Farmington from the grid in as little as four hours.

I KNOW Palo Verde is farther than 30 miles from Phoenix as it is on the AZ/NM border, just off of highway 666 (lovely road).

I used to give out my E-mail until a couple of boneheads from the forum decided to blast my account. As soon as the e-address rolled off the page it quit happening... imagine that. So I do not give it out anymore. If your e-mail address is correct, I will e-mail you privately and not take up bandwidth on this forum...

loungin' on the porch,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), November 15, 1999.

Dear Dog,

Could there be two Palo Verdes? I believe you mean what you are saying. I'm every bit as certain also. Could you be thinking of the generating plant on the Rez? I have to know...I thought the Four Corners area was safe.

My e-mail is real. Please feel free to e-mail me. I'll be available tonight, and again on Friday. Until then, if you get some free time, will you look in the phone book and see if you can find a listing for Eddie Baca? I'd sure appreciate it.

To repay you, I'll bring a few bones, a rubber ball, and a frisbee to the cookout. OK?

-- Laura (LadyLogic@aol.com), November 15, 1999.