if a starving person or child knocks on my door begging for food what should i give them? should i tell them to leave and not to come back? what if i give them a meal one time and they come back for more? what if people in my neighborhood find out i gave someone a meal?

-- charity (gotfood@6-12oops7-11.com), November 14, 1999

Answers

Tell 'em you gave at the office.

-- Ocotillo (peeling@out.===), November 14, 1999.

Tell them to go to the food bank. If you want to feed the poor, give to your local food bank or better yet, volunteer time working there.

I'm pretty tired of Pollies attacking GIs about this, implying that to store food for oneself and not have an "open door" policy at one's home equals "a psychopath ready to blow away anyone who's hungry and looking for food." Yes, if you are sleepwalking, awareness can be a scary thing. Likewise responsibility can be scary if you are accustomed to relying upon the Nanny State. Deal with your fear.

-- Dr. Polymorph (Ihavemore@thanyoudo.com), November 14, 1999.

Take 'em in, if youcan.

After giving this some thought, we have concluded that we cannot dispense food to panhandlers, but we will take in dinner guests. People who are in need are welcome to stay as long as they understand the standards of behavior in our home, and agree to abide by them.

I think that becoming known as the community food supply would probably prove disastrous. Giving food which requires some effort to prepare- beans, wheat, lentils, etc.- would help separate the freeloaders from the truly needy.

This will be a tough call. We all hope we will not have to make it.

-- softtouch (charity@home.dud), November 14, 1999.

There would be no need for this situation to arise if it weren't for the pollies telling everybody there's no need to prepare.

-- Larry (cobol.programmer@usa.net), November 14, 1999.

A Noiseless Patient Spider

A noiseless, patient spider

I marked, where, on a little 'promontory', it stood isolated;

marked how, to explore the vacant, vast surrounding.

It launched forth filament, filament, filament, out of itself;

ever unreeling them - ever tirelessly speeding them.

And you, O my Soul, where you stand,

surrounded, surrounded, in measureless oceans of space,

ceaselessly musing, venturing, throwing, - seeking the spheres to connect them

till the bridge you will need, be formed - till the ductile anchor hold;

till the gossamer thread you fling, catch somewhere, O my Soul.

Walt Whitman

-- Poetry is (now@in.motion), November 14, 1999.

It amazes me how charitable everyone says that they will be if we have a major crisis. They don't know what they're talking about.

They have no knowledge how they are going to react when they have been hungry and cold for three days, or if the untold suffering of many in their communities will make them afraid of having their lifeboat overturned by the desperate.

History serves as a good teacher. We have been spoiled rotten in this nation with all of the fat things of life, we have no memory of true hardship, and we neither read nor glean from history.

With all the examples left behind for us to learn about the depravity man will sink to, including eating their own children, when faced with famine and want, I cannot fathom a soft and spoiled nation of brats enduring an extended famine or hardship any better than those in the past that had been honed and refined in the fires of trial.

We all are talking out our behinds when we declare how we will truly react, unless the mental and spiritual preparation has been the major portion of your preps, or you have trained or endured hardship in similar circumstances that we may yet face.

If disruptions are widespread, and the hope of outside help is not forthcoming, you can bet your life on depravity and brutal actions to ensue to survive.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 14, 1999.

What Poetry said.

Please don't feed etc. etc. etc.

-- (TrollPatrol@don't.com), November 14, 1999.

We bought an extra 50 lbs of rice to be put into baggies, and handed out with 2 liter bottles of water...to family, direct neighbors, and friends in need. It eased our minds a little. Sometimes that's all it takes. I don't think most people will go door to door looking for food,...they'll do whatever the government tells them to do, which will probably be going to their infamous "warming stations". If someone forcably tries to take our stock...THAT is another story.

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), November 14, 1999.

This reminds me of an old song from the fifties:

" I hear you knockin'.......but you can't come in !"

-- Scarlett (creolady@aol.com), November 14, 1999.

A starving kid?? Gawd, that is a tough situation to face. With our luck, if we feed the little urchin, his Polly parents, who can never admit they're wrong, would probably accuse us of molestation, or some such..."We told you to never take candy from a stranger, and those people gave you a whole meal???"

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ Can't wait 'till the "Moment of Truth" in January.com), November 14, 1999.

I have to agree with Invar on this one. How can this forum spend so much time on the subject of arming oneself for protection of home and family, then consider opening your arms to the hungry masses? Who among you is so clever as to ascertain who will or wont be a threat to your family? The same people that are at your door for a meal could be the ones to take everything you have, including your life. I thought you wanted to blow these people away?

If things get real bad, you will discover that charity begins somewhere other then your place.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), November 14, 1999.

If things get that bad then it'll be dog eat dog (literally). I'd turn them away if I thought my reserves were critical to my survival. Sorry, but I believe in Darwin.

-- anonymous (anonymous@anonymous.com), November 14, 1999.

Agree with INVAR, and I feel that it is possible to help the suffering by participating via Food Banks, community gardens, and community kitchens, etc.

Besides, if you have a family to protect, no one should get TO your door.

Post signs that inform people where they should go, if they are in need. If things get bad, post "beware of dog" signs.

You can be generous and charitable AND keep your children safe.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@aloha.net), November 14, 1999.

"Take care of your garden And keep out the weeds; Fill it with sunshine, Kind words and good deeds."

Author Unknown

-- I'm (apoet@times.areyou), November 14, 1999.

The only rational answer to long term survival is community. Yes, there are people who can survive alone on their skills, but they are not the norm. The key is to be able to feed people in need and, no you cannot send them down to the food bank/kitchen because there is a good chance there won't be one. Be prepared to feed 5 to 10 people. There is power in numbers. $100 dollars will buy 250 pounds of brown rice (do not buy white rice). This is a small price to pay for survival security. Be prepared for the long-term. Re-building infrastructure will take many years. Buy seeds and tools and put people to work. Contact your neighbors as soon as practical and see if you can build a consensus for teamwork towards long term survivability. The more you can bring people together who live around you the less likely any one person can cause you harm.

-- Damon Devine (ddevine@impulse.net), November 14, 1999.

What a stupid question. If TSHTF, only those who have something to CONTRIBUTE are deserving of any aid. And even then, YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT. Bleeding hearts like "charity" still think that if (when) TSHTF, that the rules of a society of plenty will still apply. TSHTF means they WON'T. Get a clue.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 15, 1999.

If you are NOT a troll, someone once had a good answer: Don't give away food for them to walk away with but feed them.

If you ARE a troll, get your shotgun and kill them and everyone else that would even think of taking your food.

-- the Virginian (1@1.com), November 15, 1999.

You all keep talking about handing out rice and beans.

I have an idea. Hand out Twinkies, or an old cabbage, or offer to take them along to the food distribution site. You know, go in and rummage around and bring back something like you just split the last thing in your exhausted pantry. [Give your rice and beans to that site early on, if you meant for it to be distributed.]

I mean you don't have to SHOOT THEM, put why give away an obvious sign that you have non-perishables in the house?

I actually LIKED Colin's idea, although I probably misunderstood it. I thought he was saying ACT LIKE ONE OF THEM!

-- Becky (rmbolte@wvadventures.net), November 15, 1999.

Charity, What would you do if a starving person or child knocked on your door right now? How would you act today? And would you even consider acting any different in two months time?

Malcolm

-- Malcolm Taylor (taylorm@es.co.nz), November 15, 1999.

Ask Paul (Mad) Milne (The Merciless). He'll tell you EXACTLY what to do. Promise.

-- Asking (Asking@a question.com), November 15, 1999.

Feed Them.

-- Hatti (klavine@tco.com), November 15, 1999.

Feed them with your last dieing breath! What are you evolving into?

-- Hatti (klavine@tco.com), November 15, 1999.

We are evolving into the human animal. Survival of the fittest. They aren't fit if they are begging. If you feed others until you starve then your are not fit to survive (and won't of course). Darwin is coming for you Hatti.

-- anonymous (anonymous@anonymous.com), November 15, 1999.

My previous post on this subject was purest bullshit. I know and like my neighbours, and they have small children. Yes, they are stupid for not even building the six-person week stock that I have, but I don't honestly think that I could watch them starve.

And here's another point. If we DO see a TEOTWAWKI, how long do you think people will ask for food rather than demanding? Thanks to those who have advised me to "buy beans", I am going to do it in a big way, and if the worst comes to the worst, I intend to immediately split with my neighbours and try and get some sort of community action plan going. I know, it'll be belated, but better that than the alternative.

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

anonymous--i wouldn't quote darwin at a time like this. darwin's theories (YES THEORIES) point to a cold,uncaring god (or none) who allows awful processes to bring about creation. alot of those awful processes you see are actually the result of the fall--not as god intended them to be. there is no survival of the fittest for human beings. god does not intend it to be that way. darwin was a man looking for excuses for the beliefs of he and his atheist/humanistic friends and to answer the emptiness of his soul. scientists of that time even created fraudulent science/evidence to bolster his theories. god doesn't want survival of the fittest. he wants us to care and be involved. but in a time like what mgiht be coming, he may need to show us how to be involved.

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

Starving people, including children, are more than capable of firing a gun and killing you and your family in order to take what they want. Perhaps they are not even starving, or perhaps they are just bait to lure you into a vulnerable position so that someone else can do the shooting. INVAR and Sara are right on. Ideally, they shouldn't even GET to your door, but if they do, remember what the sign says in front of Paul Milne's house:

Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.

-- (its@coming.soon), November 15, 1999.

feed them, BUT ... make them work for their food. not like slave labor or anything like that, but just something for them to 'earn' their keep so to speak. its only right.

-- lou (lanny1@ix.netcom.com), November 15, 1999.

If it gets that bad and you start giving away food, why not just blow your brains out. There may be 250 million hungary people out there.

-- goldbug (goldbug@mint.com), November 15, 1999.

I love the troll above who mentions 'Paul Milne, the merciless"

It is not amazing that trolls like this believe their own lies. They are intent upon their own malice and nothing else. Their only purpose is to obfuscate, to lie, to distort, to twist and to otherwise decive.

From the very beginning I have said to prepare for the sake of your family. I have ALWAYS said to help others in need. That is why I have spent several thousand dollars building a bunk-house to shelter others who may need that kind of help. That is why I have extra food to help others. If someone comes up *asking* for help, help them. I have never said anything different. That is with ONE exception....Those whom you have warned and REFUSED to prepare. My opinion is to feed them and tell them never to come back. If they come back they will be dealt with harshly. They have jeopardized, themselves, their families and others by their lack of social responsibility. Now, they reap the consequences of their decisions.

I have also said that it is appropriate to defend yourself against anyone who 'attacks' your family. If someone decides that they will invade your private property to 'take' what they see fit, it is appropriate to use the necessary amount of force to defend your family.

But, it matters little what is said to hateful trolls. Black is white and white is black. Day is night and night is day. They are malignant people.

-- Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 15, 1999.

"Feed my sheep."

-- mommacarestx (nospam@thanks.com), November 15, 1999.

This thread, and threads like it are the exact reason why nobody in their right mind considers this forum to be of any use whatsoever. Do you know how many threads along these lines have been started? Add those into the countless "what gun should I buy" threads and you pretty much have 50% of the forum's activity covered. Get the hell out of here now before some of this insanity rubs off !! And then go call your Mom.

-- (go@to.hell), November 15, 1999.

Children are good eatin',and the bones are usualy soft enough to be ground into tasty meal.

-- doomer troll (doomer@troll.com), November 15, 1999.

These threads give a invaluable resource for considering the nigh unthinkable horrors that y2k has the potential to wreak.If it's not nicey-nice touchy-feely no icky thoughts allowed for you,fuck off and lurk at the Disney websight.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

go@to.hell,

Even though you're a nasty troll, I actually agree with you on this. In the interest of fair play, would you go post a copy of your reply on the new thread with this same question that Decker just started this morning?

-- (Act@fair.com), November 15, 1999.

I have fed hungry people before. There are some problems. Is anyone in AZ? Do you recall about 8-9 years ago in Scottsdale was a boy in the newspapers who would go around to the bars playing the drums? His father was most often unemployed. Around the bend of the neighborhood were some small apartments and he and his father moved into them. Food was seldom present and I did feed the boy. (He and my son met.) After awhile the boy began to "test" me and go at me as if I were his mother. The development of working through his emotions on me became bad enough that I had to gently stop and end the boys contact.

I can honestly say I've never had a pleasant outcome feeding hungry people. That is just one case in point.

Children are like cats in that if they're not provided for decently they start searching for a new resource. They're own instinct to survive is strong and they gravitate to any sense of normality. They want the heavy bricks on their back lifted and be "normal" children living "normal" lives. That means they want you to adopt them almost instantly. (Never mind that their parent though lousy absolutely loves him or her and would committe suicide to lose him or her.) It's not a sweet, "Please take me in," but the sudden shifting of all those bricks and baggage on oneself. "Adopt me" is to feel so secure they have fits as if you're the deeply involved Mom and working out all his or her problems. I can't quite explain it. One turns around and it is coming at oneself in a tidal wave.

Children are best fed through the school. Any help one can give the local school if it is open is appropriate so long as ones life does not become endangered. One reason being that a hungry child isn't an adoptable child. He or she still has a parent(s). One doesn't want to get between the two.

Much is going to depend on the severity of the crises and duration. It really might not be safe to help even one person. One could find the entire neighborhood in a line at ones door and a line that is violent no less. One could walk down the sidewalk with a plate of food and become a "mark" to target by the criminally minded desperate.

We are all going to have to wait and watch very carefully before being "helpful."

Someone keeps urging me to not be helpful. She really believes to help one person will have the entire nation at my door with the exact same line, "I know you don't have much but my kids are really hungry, please, ooh please, if you could just spare something!" She thinks it will be so bad it could endanger oneself to "help" and only the most discreet sitting behind closed drapes eating will survive. She may be correct. Behavior after Hurricane Andrew in Florida comes to mind.

One poential scene comes to mind. You help one person you've seen before. Maybe every day you passed that woman and her 7 year old and it felt sort of surreal offering her something to eat. It was your own experience and an odd It's All About Me moment. The man next door finds out and starts to knock, when you don't answer since you're not a soup kitchen, he becomes violent and ANGRY, yelling foul language, walking about pounding on all the doors ecetera. How come you would help her and not him? You're white? And he is Armenian, black, Mexican, Asian? Meaning you could spark an out of control fire. You could find helping someone ignites a race war.

Just hang loose. We don't any of us really know what this is going to be like. I think having a few things put aside to help with is an excellent idea but be prepared to find oneself still with that pile. In a severe situation you can't risk everyone knowing you're eating hearty.

The odds are "too feed hungry people" is to donate a few items to a relief center and not come into contact with the people oneself.

By the way, one time in life, when I first starting out in life, I was the hungry fed. My husband back then was in sales and the economy stagnated abruptly and I was heavily pregnant. It all came up short. The door bell rang and when I opened it there was a box of food from a set of Christians on the doorstep. Ding dong ditch per se. You could copy their way.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 15, 1999.

Paula, you made the most sense on this thread so far. But if you're cooking food, everyone will know, because the odors will waft through the air. If your neighbors are ever really hungry, it's only a matter of time before they simply break into your house & take your food. You can't shoot them all.

That's why the real doomers have long since bugged out to the boonies.

-- not looking (forward@to.it), November 15, 1999.

"--",

And what exactly, in your 44-font, bold type opinion, would be a thread of "any use whatsoever?" The ones talking about stock options?!? Not trying to be sarcastic, but I have NO idea where you're coming from.

-- rob minor (rbminor@hotmail.com), November 15, 1999.

At this point in time I will not have enough to get my child and I through if it last more than a month so there will be nothing to give them. Hopefully finances will change, then so will storage. We will see.

I do not think in general people will go to a strangers house to get food. I know I would not. I would think I do not know those people and I am going to eat something from them with no controls on them, not me; I will search the woods and eat and feed my child wild things myself.

I thought if I do get extra food I may put up some 2x4's and surround it with black plastic then if anyone does come up I will take a plate of food out to them, if I have it. They can eat in the shelter then be on their way. No one will be coming into my home it just is not safe. I do not let anyone in now so why should I then?

I think Paula's idea of feeding the children in schools is the best idea as schools are local to everyone and everyone knows where they are and would not have to "find the address" of a shelter.

obo

-- Onebyone (susanwater@excite.com), November 15, 1999.

At this point I will not have enough to get my child and I through if it last more than a month so there will be nothing to give them. Hopefully finances will change, then so will storage. We will see.

I do not think in general people will go to a strangers house to get food. I know I would not. I would think I do not know those people and I am going to eat something from them with no controls on them, not me; I will search the woods and eat and feed my child wild things myself.

I thought if I do get extra food I may put up some 2x4's and surround it with black plastic then if anyone does come up I will take a plate of food out to them, if I have it. They can eat in the shelter then be on their way. No one will be coming into my home it just is not safe. I do not let anyone in now so why should I then?

I think Paula's idea of feeding the children in schools is the best idea as schools are local to everyone and everyone knows where they are and would not have to "find the address" of a shelter.

obo

-- Onebyone (susanwater@excite.com), November 15, 1999.

All you bleeding heart Christians who don't think evolution has worked , is working, and will work in the future, on humans are f*in clueless. Don't bother to flame or argue. You are reality challenged.

Consider that the "starving" child has the genetic makeup of its idiot parents -- and you want more of that? It's like Sally Struthers who used to do the "sob, sniff, snuffle" infomercials on late-night TV pitching for contributions to feed the starving children of the wog-land du jour. Yeah, right -- so they can grow up and drop a litter of a half-dozen or more starving children, each.

"To protect fools from the effects of their folly is to fill the world with fools." [Herbert Spencer]

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 15, 1999.

Oh yeah, feeding the kinds at the schools is a GREAT idea [sarcasm]. Run to Big Brother, you sheep.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 15, 1999.

A.

You don't seem to be cunning enough to me to be a wolf so how could you know what a sheep is? To explain in simpler language-- when I was commenting on Paula's suggestion to feed the children at school we were not talking about ---OUR--- personal children but starving children in the general public whose parents are not providing for them. I will care for my child as I have have always done even without the help of the jerk titled deadbeat dad by society. I did not give birth to the starving children we were speaking about so I am not legally responsible for feeding them! Don't know how you can see sheep in that. I only see ingnorant parents who believed the lies of the government so their children are starving as a result. So let the lying government find a way to feed them I say!!!! Schools are government owned. The goverment let the problem get out of control by their lies so throw it back at them. Make the government responsible for the problem they greatly helped to create.

If you want to feed them go ahead I am not stopping you! I can handle me and mind and that is it.

-- Onebyone (susanwater@excite.com), November 15, 1999.

You like snow but only if it's warm You like rain but only if it's dry No sentimental value to the rose that fell on your floor No fundamental excuse for the granted I'm taken for

'Cause it's easy not to So much easier not to And what goes around never comes around to you

You like pain but only if it doesn't hurt too much You sit... and you wait... to receive There's an obvious attraction To the path of least resistence in your life There's an obvious aversion no amount of my insistance Could make you try tonight.

'Cuz it's easier not to So much easier not to And what goes around never comes around to you To you to you to you to you to you... There's no love no money no thrill anymore

There's an apprehensive naked little trembling boy Wiht his head in his hands There's an underestimated and impatient little girl Raising her hand

But it's easy not to So much easier not to And what goes around never comes around to you To you, to you

get up get up get up off of it get up get up get up off of it get out get outta here enough already get up get up get up off of it wake up

-- Alanis Morissette, all rights reserved (rock@on.com), November 15, 1999.

tt, After the things I've seen in my life I don't believe in a god (especially one that cares for us). What I have seen is Darwin's theories at work. That's what I believe in. To each his own. M2C

-- anonymous (anonymous@anonymous.com), November 16, 1999.

TO MAD MILNE THE MERCILESS.

Actually, MR Milne, I'm not a troll. Unless you call being fully prepared for 6 months +, and believing that Y2K will result in at least a very serious depression, a troll. However, I'll do what I can to help others, particularly my immediate DWTGI family.

You, however, are something else. You spout your total and twisted hatred of the system, and hope and pray that it ends in widespread death and disaster.

You are also a liar. In previous posts (and I don't have the technical skills to repeat them here) you quite clearly stated that you would let your MOTHER and BROTHERS and SISTERS die. Why? Because they refused to prepare when you told them to do. So they will "REAP THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR DECISIONS.

What dirt you are. And you call me hateful and malignant!!

On reflection, Paul, I feel quite sorry for you. The truth is that the way we see the outside world is an accurate reflection of our own inner condition. What does that say about you? Sick? Cancerous? You have no compassion, no love, no forgiveness. No heart. Just anger and hatred spewing out in endless torrents.

If it is a 10, Paul, you may survive a while before your ammunition is expended, and you succumb to the furious mob. I doubt your mother, if alive after your treatment of her, will be amongst them. She probably loves you still.

Ps Quit while you're just a little bit behind.

-- Asking (Asking@aquestion.com), November 16, 1999.

Where the quiet-coloured end of evening smiles,

Miles and miles

On the solitary pastures where our sheep

Half-asleep

Tinkle homeward thro' the twilight, stray or stop

As they crop--

Was the site once of a city great and gay,

(So they say)

Of our country's very capital, its prince

Ages since

Held his court in, gathered councils, wielding far

Peace or war.

Now the country does not even boast a tree,

As you see,

To distinguish slopes of verdure, certain rills

From the hills

Intersect and give a name to, (else they run

Into one)

Where the domed and daring palace shot its spires

Up like fires

O'er the hundred-gated circuit of a wall

Bounding all

Made of marble, men might march on nor be prest

Twelve abreast.

And such plenty and perfection, see, of grass

Never was!

Such a carpet as, this summer-time, o'er-spreads

And embeds

Every vestige of the city, guessed alone,

Stock or stone--

Where a multitude of men breathed joy and woe

Long ago;

Lust of glory pricked their hearts up, dread of shame

Struck them tame;

And that glory and that shame alike, the gold

Bought and sold.

Now--the single little turret that remains

On the plains,

By the caper overrooted, by the gourd

Overscored,

While the patching houseleek's head of blossom winks

Through the chinks--

Marks the basement whence a tower in ancient time

Sprang sublime,

And a burning ring, all round, the chariots traced

As they raced,

And the monarch and his minions and his dames

Viewed the games.

And I know, while thus the quiet-coloured eve

Smiles to leave

To their folding, all our many-tinkling fleece

In such peace,

And the slopes and rills in undistinguished grey

Melt away--

That a girl with eager eyes and yellow hair

Waits me there

In the turret whence the charioteers caught soul

For the goal,

When the king looked, where she looks now, breathless, dumb

Till I come.

But he looked upon the city, every side,

Far and wide,

All the mountains topped with temples, all the glades'

Colonnades,

All the causeys, bridges, aqueducts,--and then

All the men!

When I do come, she will speak not, she will stand,

Either hand

On my shoulder, give her eyes the first embrace

Of my face,

Ere we rush, ere we extinguish sight and speech

Each on each.

In one year they sent a million fighters forth

South and North,

And they built their gods a brazen pillar high

As the sky

Yet reserved a thousand chariots in full force--

Gold, of course.

O heart! oh blood that freezes, blood that burns!

Earth's returns

For whole centuries of folly, noise and sin!

Shut them in,

With their triumphs and their glories and the rest!

Love is best.

Samuel Taylor Coleridge

-- Commit (acts@of.poetry), November 16, 1999.

Wasn't the purpose of this post obvious? The troll was waiting for someone to respond by saying "shoot em" so they could all jump up again and tell us what disgusting creatures we are. If they were sincere this thread has been played to death a dozen times. There was no need to ask again. Just start telling them you will give these hungry people very clear directions to some polly's house

-- thomas thatcher (jabawaki@erols.com), November 16, 1999.