the united states marine corp is not subject to the "posse comititas" law!!! a qoute in part from SUN TZE's book "the art of war"::: "know thy enemy" go to any used book store near you and see if they have any marine corp issued training manuals and books that sort also check marine and leatherneck magazine!!!

-- xox,oxo (xox@oxo.com), November 14, 1999

Answers

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

-- SH (squirrel@hunter.com), November 14, 1999.

Soap in a sock treatment, please.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), November 14, 1999.

Troll this soul may be, but s/he/it is perfectly correct. Posse Commitatus does NOT apply to the Marines (or Navy, or Coast Guard or Public Health Service or US Coast and Geodetic Survey, to round out the armed forces), the question of the Air Force is dicier, the prevailing opinion is as it decended from the Army, it would be covered.

The Radio Amateur call signs contain a numerical designation...it represents the Naval Region of the United States where the holder resides.

Continuing on the use of Marines, in the late 1940's, President Truman used Marines to quell a serious uprising at Alcatraz. He could not legally use the Army...it is a Felony punishable by two years imprisonment, and very definitely an IMPEACHABLE offence.

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), November 14, 1999.

STOPPING BY WOODS ON A SNOWY EVENING

by Robert Frost - 1923

Whose woods these are I think I know.

His house is in the village though;

He will not see me stopping here

To watch his woods fill up with snow.

My little horse must think it queer

To stop without a farmhouse near

Between the woods and frozen lake

The darkest evening of the year.

He gives his harness bells a shake

To ask if there is some mistake.

The only other sound's the sweep Of easy wind and downy flake.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep.

But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep,

And miles to go before I sleep.

-- Poetry is (now@in.motion), November 14, 1999.

As a former Marine officer, let me offer this: There are only 180,000 Marines, and 300 million US citizens. BTW, the latest issue of Leatherneck magazine (at Barnes&Noble) shows Marines officers training in a small town near the base. Not good, IMHO.

-- impala (impala@wild.com), November 14, 1999.

As a fellow former Marine Corps Officer, 1/3 of those 180,000 marines are "office pukes." "They" are also unlikely to pull the 1/4th of them home from Okinawa, Japan, where they watch U.S. interests in Asia, or pull them off the Navy's ships where they do important guard duty, or out of the U.S. embassies around the world where they keep the barbarians at bay. There's not a whole lot left after this. About 3 infantry regiments with an artillery regiment and tank battalion at both Camp Lejeune, NC, and Camp Pendleton, CA. I suppose they could occupy Raleigh and San Diego...but that's about it.

-- nothing (better@to.do), November 14, 1999.

Oh yeah, but if you DO happen to come face to face with a fully trained, fully armed United States Marine...I would definitely be concerned.

-- nothing (better@to.do), November 14, 1999.

JOY

by Robert Browning

Oh, the wild joys of living! the leaping from rock to rock, The strong rending of boughs from the fir-tree, the cool silver shock Of the plunge in the pool's living water.... How good is man's life, the mere living! how fit to employ All the heart and the soul and the senses forever in joy!

-- I'm (apoet@times.areyou), November 14, 1999.

The Marine Corp. or any other government law enforcement group may actually try and protect you and your food and your property.

I know 2 of these Marines. Neither would fire on innocent U.S. citizens. Hopefully the other 179,998 wouldn't either.

-- the Virginian (1@1.com), November 15, 1999.

Don't know why this thread brought out the poetry but I appreciate the two poems cited. "Stopping By Woods" I have long loved. "Joy" was a new and wonderful treat and recalled feelings of being young.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), November 15, 1999.

She came in thru the bathroom window,
protected by a silver spoon.
but now she sucks her thumb and wonders,
by the banks of her own lagoon.

Didn't any body tell her?
Didn't anybody see?
Sundays on the phone to Monday.
Tuesdays on the phone to me.

Oh yeah

Said she'd always been a dancer.
Worked at fifteen clubs a day.
And though she thought I knew the answer.
Well I knew, but I could not say.

(Repeat chorus)

And so I quit the police department
and got myself a steady job.
and though she tried her best to help me
she could steal, but she could not rob

(Repeat chorus)

Oh yeah

-- Songmeister (singin@the.rain), November 15, 1999.

I do not know if we will see any type of martial law or not, looks like 'they' are planning on the possibility of it.

As far as the thought 'our military are good ole boys, raised next door, honest, hardworking, ....etc...'. I do agree. I think the majority of our men are just like our husbands, sons,& fathers. I think they love thier wives and children, mothers, neighbors,....etc. But.................

I also believe our goverment (and I mean up to the highest level) has the ability to make even 'good' people believe black is white and white is black. They Lie, Lie, Lie!!!!!

I just watched the movie "Waco"

I think (I have to believe) that the men wearing our US uniforms are good men. So then why did they kill all those people? Because they were told the people in the compound were 'bad' people. I know I am simplifing it a bit, but you get the picture.

I say all of that to say this.... I see the same thing happening now. We (the GI's) are being labled as the problem, 'bad people', causing all of this mess, pointing our fingers to show the world all of this mess. The FBI says watch out for millennium terrorist. You will know what they look like when you see them. They are stockpiling weapons, storing food ans clothing....preparing compounds, and recruiting new converts.

You know what.... that sounds alot like me. I can tell you, I am not a terrorist. I will not leave my home from Dec 20th thru Jan 5th.

If you have not seen the movie "Waco" .... go rent it. I have never been so "on my toes" befor. I am definatly planning a bug out bag.

I hope all of this makes since, I am just a little shaken. The ATF and the FBI murdered all those people,....men, women, and childred. But not just murdered them... they torchered them for weeks befor they killed them. Those poor babies, I cry for the babies.

-- bulldog (sniffin@around.com), November 15, 1999.

If you entertain any thought of resisting the Marines, you will die. I say this as a Marine grunt from Vietnam, M 3/4. Just do what they say, and try and leave the area. These are Warriors, and not to be played with.

That said, they are also America's sons, brothers, husbands, and fathers. They don't want to hurt you, so don't set yourself up as the enemy. I can tell you, their attitude in combat is; The enemy is there, we're coming there, and we are going to kill every single one of them. Just do what they say.

-- Devil Dog (SemperFi@urrah.com), November 15, 1999.

Perhaps our military forces will go to WDC to personally deliver a copy of the Constitution. Apparently, they've misplaced the original.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), November 15, 1999.

--there is no single "bad ass' organization, just as there is no single"toughest dood on the block". Human beings are all different. You can take someone who's trained, has the best technology and weapons, and stick him or her in an environment where they are the outsiders and some local boy who knows the woods or the 'hood will be more effective. That's reality. A successful resister knows his terrain, knows when to fight, knows when to retreat, knows when to misdirect, knows when to feint, and knows when to strike. And doesn't need any "orders' or "command and control" to accomplish these tasks. That said, look at history. Every despotic nation in the history of the planet has used ALL it's resources-the military and police-to victimize, control, murder, harass, etc. the private citizen, and they always manage to come up with the numbers of soldiers and police who will do these "tasks". Soldiers and police follow orders. They will kill civilians if ordered to. I take that as a gimme. In my mind, it's easy to postulate if you are a soldier or policeman now that you would never do anything like that, but I have to go on the historical reality that you have, that sufficient carrot and stick powers of the government exist to compel you to "follow orders". Illegal search and seizure exists, it's being carried out by currently serving police forces around the country. Illegal bank account seizures exist, it's being carried out. Illegal wars-excuse me, UN or NATO "actions"-exist, they are carried out by the 99.999% of the currently active military, all branches. There is no evidence that any sort of resistance to illegal orders exist outside of a small handful of guys who refuse the blue beanie, and a small but growing number of folks who refuse the dubious "anthrax" shots. the ones who won't follow illegal orders- police and military-are quitting. Or, they are suffering persecution right now. but, the numbers are small compared to the numbers who 'just follow orders". The huge, over whelmiong majority will follow ANY order given to them, once the SHTF, and the king goes berserk, more than he is now. Follow orders, or suffer the consequences. You get a quick kangaroo military trial and go to the brig, or even worse, your family at home is thrown to the mobs. Follow orders, your family gets fed and protected. Play ball, or suffer. That's when all the rhetoric will come home. It's nice to think that the only use will be to protect crippled grandmas and dumb citizens, but I'm afraid all the evidence goes to show that the military and police will be used to preserve the status quo of the priveledged elite, and their globalist goals. it's happening now, just look around. I am encouraged by various statements that "no one I know will fire on US citizens", but I'll believe it when the Constitution is followed by the vast masses of the police and military. It isn't now. rock and a hard place, for everyone. I'll believe it when wounded knee, waco, ruby ridge, kent state, jackson state, viet nam invasions, yugoslavia invasions, etc. DO NOT HAPPEN. THAT'S when I'll believe it, not before. Look back in history. Patton and MacArthur commanded troops who fired on starving veterans from world war one. Serpico is still reviled in the police community because he "ratted' on fellow corrupt gangster cops. I am truly sorry I have that opinion, but reality of history has made it so. I remain afraid of our own police and military, while trying to maintain respect and friendship for those individuals I have known and currently know. I would like to believe that one day I won't be classed as a "terrorist", or evil "hoarder", or a "dangerous arsenal owning gun whacko", or a "cultist" or a "religious extremist" or any of the other demonizing labels that make it dangerous to speak openly, and believe in personal freedoms and responsibilites. I'll believe it when "lists" don't exist. I'll believe "it" when police agencies don't use infiltrators and agent provocateurs to incite violence, and don't plant evidence, or lie on the stand in court. I'll believe it when court cases aren't rigged. I'll believe it when the various agencies of the governemnt aren't used as political weapons to stifle dissent. I'll believe it when illegal wars aren't fought because from the highest general down to the newest grunt they all say NO, SORRY, THAT'S AN ILLEGAL ORDER AND I WON'T CARRY IT OUT. I ain't seeing it. where is it? Not against the military and police, in fact, I favor a much stronger national DEFENSE, and a much more effective use of civilian police to work on REAL CRIME. Until that happens, I have to remain suspect. I'm sure this will generate some heated response, but I ask anyone responding to please read my words very carefully, I've tried to be clear, and to not impugn anyone personally, merely to address some apparent-to me-realities. thanks zog

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), November 15, 1999.

WC,

They can't even find a COPY these days.

-- nothere nothere (notherethere@hotmail.com), November 15, 1999.

As a retired Army officer, it pains me to have to defend the Marines, but this is BS. If the marines get called out it will be to help people and impose a "military presence" where it appears dangerous to confront them. If they become your enemy, it will be because either you are a bad guy or REALLY STUPID.

If you are a bad guy, I want them to be your enemy. I fear, however you are really stupid. So, in an effort to protect some young marine from Court Martial from shooting back at the terminally stupid, just treat them like honorable people who have been given a rotten, hard job and don't want trouble, and you will be fine.

If you are trying to find the enemy, look at the politicians.

A whole lot of American boys have died at places like Iwo Jima and Vietnam to give you the freedeom you have today, and you call them the enemy.

-- ng (cantprovideemail@none.com), November 15, 1999.

Zog, I hope you're a man, cause a women would look ridiculous with such huge balls. In either case I admire your courage in stating the truth.

-- My Right To Privacy Please (Inexile@aol.com), November 15, 1999.

Marines follow orders they do not care who's mother, sister, father or brother you are, they just follow orders that is their job.

The leaders whe issued the original order are not to be trusted so if you do not like the way your life ends up in martial law don't blame the guy standing there with the gun held in from of his chest, he is just doing his job.

Heart, right, wrong, or decency do not enter the picture just orders.

obo

-- Onebyone (susanwater@excite.com), November 15, 1999.