OK, I think we will see some problems with y2k, but what is convincing some of you that it will be really bad? Worst case scenario, etc? I still think that the govt would tell us something if they knew the worst case scenario is possible. I know there are things they won't tell us, but wouldn't they have to say more to us than they have?

-- Linn (tellmethe@truth.com), November 14, 1999

Answers

TROLL ALERT!

And JUST IN CASE you're NOT one, "What convinces me...?"

Why, over a THOUSAND HOURS of personal research, buried mainstream media stories, failure reports, blah, blah, blah...

What convinces YOU that it'll be a BITR? Because you "feel" that it will??

Are you mentally prepared to have your genes permanently removed from the gene pool? Darwin would be proud.

47 days remain.

-- Dennis (djolson@cherco.net), November 14, 1999.

It sounds like you have quite a bit of naoveti about how government and big business works,or maybe I'm just cynical.Are you prepaired to be wrong?Trust is for suckers.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), November 14, 1999.

Linn;

I am begining to agree with the government, if you do not get it by now, you will not get it until the system falls apart infront of you. You will not have preps, you will have to rely on the government to provide for you.

Do you think that the government will save you?

-- Its (ALL@Conspiracy.com), November 14, 1999.

leaving the world no poorer.....

-- apokoliptik (apokoliptik@yahoo.com), November 14, 1999.

Dennis, ha ha ha ha and ha again! I am asking a question and would appreciate an answer. I am not a troll-- never been called that before.! Re-read my question and then contribute an answer to it---if you have one.

-- Linn (notroll@here.com), November 14, 1999.

tellmethetruth: The only truth I know is that god is Love.

As to how things will pan out later this year and next, its hard to say because we're dealing with probabilities, not just on millions of potential technical failures, but on billions of individual human decisions. Some people will experience this as a 10, others less so. The important thing at this point in the game is maintaining a clear head, a good sense of humor, and a spiritual outlook.

And buy some canned good if you haven't already.

-- a (a@a.a), November 14, 1999.

To a, I agree with you on that, I already have some things like canned goods (not a lot), but I just don't know about this TEOTWAAKO stuff. I am going to trust in God and also plan more for the possibilities. To everyone else, I don't trust the govt 100 percent. That's not what I was meaning., Thanks

-- Linn (ok@now.com), November 14, 1999.

Among the things our gov't won't tell us is the truth. Look at their record, going back almost half a century. The last Prez who tried to do so was Eisenhower, with his "watch out for the military/industrial complex" farewell speech.

In this case, Y2K, the government is the LAST place to look for truth. No matter their understanding of the potential severity of the problem, they have only two major goals. One is to be sure and not add to the problem by "needlessly" alarming the populace; they believe, possibly rightfully so, that no good can come from alerting the whole of society to the potential for disaster, since the ensuing "panic buying" and cash withdrawls would make matters even worse.

The other reason they feel they must lie to us is the oldie but goodie, CYA. No way do they want to be blamed for the underwhelmingly weak and late attempt at remediation, so they instead pass on the self-serving assurances of the individual agencies, as well as private business that all is well; this will enable them to simply say they were lied to by others (us). Also, in their desire to avoid blame at all cost, they are setting up a whole variety of potential strawdogs on whom to blame any computer breakdowns which might occur; we have to watch out for evil programmers who could be planting bugs to make things go haywire; those damned terrorists are just the sort to pick Y2k to strike, thereby creating chaos when all should have been well; those darned survivalists are really bad people who WANT to see THEOTWAWKIT, and in their disappointment at the lack of authentic Y2K problems will go out and manufacture their own through sabotage, and what have you.

Please, don't look to the government for truth, they are incapable of it.

Ed

-- Ed (dontlookto@the.gov), November 14, 1999.

My God Woman, do NOT let yourself become a victim to the sheeple mentality that waits for the government to tell them what to do! The government is here to SERVE us, not to tell us when to ACT. You've got to try to look at this from THEIR point of view. Their highest priority right now is preserving National Security, especially with the possibility of terrorist attacks looming on the horizon. They cannot afford to have a good portion of our military preoccupied with Y2K panic and rioting incidents. Our troops have got to be available in the event of a more serious attack.

From the perspective of our highest ranking officials in the DOD, NSA, and FBI, none of these disruptive events that may result from Y2K can be nearly as bad as panic and rioting incidents among the public. It all has to do with CONTROL. They know that if a specific bank fails and runs begin, or fighting starts in lines at a specific gas station, they can deploy a sufficient force to the scene to control this. But if they make a nationwide announcement about what they REALLY believe is possible next year, panic and rioting could pop up in hundreds of random locations simultaneously, and they have no way to CONTROL that type of thing. Plus, it would divert a larger amount of our defensive forces, leaving us more vulnerable to terrorism.

Since a lot of the views on this forum are admittedly biased, I recommend that you do RANDOM searching and reading on Y2K, and make a decision how to act based on YOUR best decision. Do NOT wait for the government on this one, as they are limited as to what they can speculate about, in the interest of preserving National Security. If they had asked us to prepare several years ago, they may have been able to control it, but it was too late when they finally realized the potential implications of this thing. Please take the responsibility into your OWN hands, and keep in mind... what do you have to lose by being prepared?

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 14, 1999.

Linn,

One of the best places to start researching Y2K is the Senate Y2K Committee's 100 day report:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001SFC

http://www.senate.gov/~y2k/documents/100dayrpt/

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), November 14, 1999.

Do a search for "Paula Gordon", a frequent poster to this group and a prominent DC professor.

She has begged the current administration to tell the truth without success. :-(

-- cgbg jr (cgbgjr@webtv.net), November 14, 1999.

Linn -

You are obviously new to y2k. Most of us have spent quite a bit of time researching the issues involved and thinking about the consequences. I would suggest that you do the same. Here are a few links that may help bring you up to speed.

Gary North - For why it could be that bad.

Embedded Sytems Fault CaseBook - Examples of problems with embedded chips

IEEE Position Paper - Check this out.

Think about the consequences of major computer failures in basic parts of our infastructure. Some of these are extremely unlikely, but if you honestly consider them, you will see why some posters are so worried.

Electrical Power - What happens if Y2K failures cause a large number of plants to go offline? How dependant are you and everyone else on a constant supply of electricity for light & heat? What happens if a reactor goes offline?

Banks - Due to fractional reserve banking, there is not enough cash to go around if everyone tries to take their money out at the same time. Many people are worried that banks will "lose track" of their money. What happens when people try to withdraw all their money at once? What will they do if the bank cannot give it to them? What will the bank do if it cannot give them their money?

Oil - Y2K issues have been identified in oil wells. Many oil wells are located in countries that are behind in their remediation. Will Y2K issues cut the flow of oil significantly? If so, by how much? What sort of impact would this have on the economy?

Trains - Trains haul most of the nations goods. Trains are scheduled by computers. What happens if computer screwups reduce the efficiency of the trains? Will you have trouble getting Pokemon's? New Nikes? Food?

Government - What are the implications if the governments computers fail? If the IRS fails, where will operating funds come from? What will those on Social Security/Welfare do if they do not get their checks? What will the military do if their soldiers cannot get their checks? To what degree will Y2K malfunctions affect the ability of the US to fight?

Financial Markets - What would infastructure failures do to the stock market? How many people have all of their savings invested in the market right now?

Last Question - What happens if all of these things happen at once?

Not much time left until we find out the answers. You might want to check out some of the articles on prepping

-- John Ainsworth (ainsje00@wfu.edu), November 14, 1999.

Linn,

Hello and welcome to the board. Please see the above link to the Senate's 100 Day Report. Please read the Executive Summary. Pages 4 and 9 are especially interesting.

Something to keep in mind is the interdependency of all of our industries (not only the U.S., but world-wide). Also consider how your place of business might be effected if there were no electricity, no heat, or no transportation. Perhaps only one of the three might be slowed down or shut down for a while - but I think you can see that the impact would be very, very great.

I believe that many in the government (and banking industry) are afraid of what the public's reaction would be if they were told that, "We think we'll be ok, but we don't know for sure..." or "It'll be a little rough for a while, but we'll make it through, just like back during the Depression." This may be why all you're hearing from CNN about Y2K is good news, the reality of the situation is far grimmer. Look in Y2K Press Clippings' archives - You'll see an article where a bankers' association was mailing out reassuring scripts to churches, asking the pastors to tell their congregations to keep their money in the bank! Do you remember when President Clinton lied to us about not having sex with Monica? If he's lied about something so inconsequential, what will stop him from doing it again? Also, did you hear where Hillary said that Pres. Clinton has a compulsive lying problem? If she's willing to say that nationally, then that's something that we had better pay attention to.

Personal experience: I have an 84 year old grandfather and 77 year old grandmother living in Chicago. Both lived through the Depression. They don't have a computer and they don't have cable, yet they've stored 1 1/2 months food and are working on getting medicine and water set back. They survived the Depression, and I pray to God that they'll survive this just fine. (Now if I can just get them to move.)

As wise man on this board once said: "It's not the risk, it's what's at stake. Can you afford to be wrong about Y2K?" I sure can't.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), November 14, 1999.

Linn, I feel very sorry for you and you're family.Put you're faith in you're good GOV. it will save you.Linn if there is only one thing you learn it should be this:Straight out of Koshinken's mouth and Greenspan(whose massagging The Wallstreet Bubble thats about to burst) Our biggest fear is PANIC.Not Y2k or a crash but the masses reacting in fear at the same time.Picture in you're mind what it would be like if you turned on the news and every channel has a special report,people in lineups at banks and Sams club.Would it scare you, what would you do?Sit and say the poor boobs don't they know the Government has everything in control.NO,the blood would rush to you're brain and everything you believed impossible but read on this forum would come crashing down in a nanosecond.Denial would turn to fear and then PANIC.Thats what they want to avoid mass Panic.For the sake of you're family Linn get some insurance. Just sit down and listen for 1/2hr hr.http://www.audiocentral.com/rshows/mir/default.html

officials in the DOD, NSA, and FBI, none of these disruptive events that may result from Y2K can be nearly as bad as panic and rioting incidents among the public.

-- Friend (not@possible.maybe), November 14, 1999.

The worst case scenario here or in any nation in my opinion would be isolated "down" communities seized by rebels or malcontents, a literal or invisible wall agoing around the area, and the rebels or malcontents begin to "cleanse" the population of anti itself in the newly created Thunderdome. Indonesia comes to mind with its human heads on stakes being paraded about.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 14, 1999.

http://www.audiocentral.com/rshows/mir/default.html Y2k endgame

-- Friend (not@possible.maybe), November 14, 1999.

I agree with Linkmeister and Deb M,

If you read between the lines of the Executive Summary of the Senate 100 Day Report you get a teeny bit of what the truth might be. At the very least, the report covers the rearends of the Senate Committee.

Also check out:

http://www.systemtransformation.com/artaftersho.htm

-- the Virginian (1@1.com), November 14, 1999.

"Do you think that the government will s[l]ave you?"

Our government borrows from the Fed..."The borrower is servant to the lender."

Need I say more?

OK, OK!

It depends on what the definition of "is, is!"

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), November 14, 1999.

Of course y2k is going to be reeeeeeeellly bad. Just look how devestating it's been already. [giggle]

-- (that@was.sarcasm), November 14, 1999.

Linn

Your post was bound to bring forth some interesting response. You have arrived at the center of the universe for a wide spectrum of Y2K information and positions. I rarely agree with Hawk but take his advise and read as much as you can and decide for yourself. Keep in mind the fact that many of the posters on this forum will seem to be experts but they are presenting information, for the most part, to validate their own beliefs. Nothing wrong with that, just dont except everything as the gospel truth without close examination. And remember this: none of us really know what is going to happen. Many will appear to have the answers but I would not bet on it. Make up your own mind and stick with your convictions. Being prepared for unforeseen emergencies is prudent and wise, Y2K or not. I have found a comfort zone in the middle of the awareness spectrum and highly recommend you do likewise. Avoid the extremes on both ends.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), November 14, 1999.

"I still think that the govt would tell us something if they knew the worst case scenario is possible."

Of all the notions put forth on this forum, I think the idea that the "government" has any clear idea of what is coming is the most quaint. Why in the world would anyone think any member of government from top to bottom might be in a better position to know that? Because they have more information than the rest of us? What information? Can anyone imagine that there's a government agency with a list of what computers will fail and how, or embedded systems, or how people will react to the potential threat or to any possible disruptions? Then within that agency they have rooms full of intellect figuring out what that will mean; tracing all the little connections to get the "big picture"? Then they show the "big picture" to a bunch of intellects in another agency that decide what should be leaked and what should be secret?

The whole idea is ludicrous. No government at any level has a firm grasp on this. The public has had access to plenty of information if they looked for it. Most didn't. Most of those that have still decided it was nothing terribly serious to worry about. Then there are those that have jumped to different conclusions (including myself). But I am not paranoid about government conspiracy. Clearly they are doing a "spin" trying to avoid loss of consumer confidence in the financial industry. Good for them, they should be concerned about that. They've been spinning it well so far and may they continue to be successful.

Linn, nobody has the truth. But even if they did have it they'd have no way to know it. But even if they did know it they'd have no way to prove it. Best for you to completely give up the idea of anyone telling you what is going to happen next year. Get as much information as you can, and screen out the BS as well as you can, and then make your own guess as well as you can. This isn't the kind of quiz where the government can look in the back of the book to find the answers.

-- Gus (y2kk@usa.net), November 14, 1999.

Linn--right after the first time I heard Gary North speak, I took a digital clock I had (it was only two years old) and ran it ahead eighteen months, as it didn't have an actual "year" function. At 00:01, 0101 it went permanently berserk. After that everything was just windowdressing.

-- StanTheMan (heidrich@presys.com), November 14, 1999.

Linn, I agee with "Truth".If you buy into the ultimate doom scenario, it will never end (there is always another level of concern and of prep) and it will drive you nuts. It seems to have already driven some people nuts. Prudently prepare for more than a 3 day storm and then let it go.

-- (prudence@not.prurience), November 14, 1999.

ROTFL. Stan the Man this might be one of the only places in the world where you will actually find someone who actually believes your story.

-- Butt Nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), November 14, 1999.

Butt Nugget:

I'm sure any day now StanTheMan will tell us the make and model of this digital clock. I know he can't have thrown it away -- it's not only a priceless y2k artifact, it's an extremely powerful sales device to get people's attention. I'm sure he simply forgot these little details that will let others independently verify his story. But he'll remember soon, I'm sure.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 14, 1999.

I tend to agree with Gus. I don't think the Prez or his council really know what is going to happen. I think that they are hoping the they get lucky and the failures will be minimal.

The alternative would have been to announce to the American people last January (or March or May) that we are in for a rough ride and it would be prudent to stockpile a month or so's worth of food and cash. The reason they did not do that is 1) they are not sure how bad it will be, and 2) it would have devasted the economy. 3) it would surely cost the democratic party votes.

60% of our economey is non-essential goods. An anouncement by our government would have immediately reduced that 60% portion of our economy (non-essential) to some lower percentage. 1000's of business would have gone out of business and 1000's of people would have lost their jobs. The stock market would have been affected and many billionaries would have lost milliones. So sad...

So instead the government has decided to do nothing and hope for the best. I can imagine that they have thier fingers crossed, hoping we make it thourgh the Christmas retail season. IF nothing much happens, great! the economy goes on. If it is a desaster, then the poor and unprepared will pay the price. The poor and average people have been sacrificed for business and the retail "non-essential" economy.

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), November 14, 1999.

Nug and Flint,

Just keep laughing, but what Stan says about the clock is entirely possible when you take leap years into consideration. It is also going to happen in January in a lot of places where you wouldn't expect it.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 14, 1999.

Lynn:

I am a technically skilled non-programmer who's own research is in a very complex field (chemistry). I have studied this problem for over two years and have drawn shockingly few definitive conclusions. There is only one thing that I can say with confidence: The risk is real. I can't put probabilities on it, but let me repeat: The risk is real.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), November 15, 1999.

I am astounded that you people--not pollies, not trolls, but supposedly GI's!--would doubt the clock story. Nugget and Flint, don't be such MORONS. It happened, and yes, I threw it away after several months went it totally died--no display at all. It was a 1"x2" digital car clock, the kind you stick on the dashboard. Stop and think about it--of COURSE it had an internal recognition of the year--how else would it negotiate leap years! And the year had been programmed into it AT THE FACTORY. At precisely 00:01 it began running sequences of numbers rapidly, then would go blank, then show a nonsense display, then run sequences again, etc. It COULD be set to a current time, with GREAT DIFFICULTY and very nimble fingers, but would not hold it, and would go berserk again. Would I make this up? Would I spend $20k on preps otherwise? Do you actually think I'd do that on YOUR word that trouble was afoot? By the way, I went out and bought a new one (different model) the same week and it performed okay with the same test. Are you two poseurs, or what? Until now I thought you actually had your heads screwed on straight.

-- StanTheMan (heidrich@presys.com), November 15, 1999.

My, this is so interesting hearing all these different opinions. I have been reading the articles and the posts that someone (I forgot) posted for me,(you know who you are) thanks for them. I thank all of you really for giving me this information and would just like to add that if there are any more programmers out there, what do you think of y2k? In all fairness, there is something that i didn't mention previously. At the first of this year, my feelings on y2k were quite different. At that time I was planning on getting preparations stored up and so on and so on and did get a few things done. Then I spoke to my husband about it and......duh duh duh duh DUH.... He doesn't believe anything at all will happen! Well, I think that his opinion has likely shaded my own because ever since I've told him that we should plan and make preparations, he has not bought into the "crisis". He is really level-headed but doens't know anything much about this even though I tried to explain it!! He just says everything will be alright and the "Bill Gates will find silver bullet" routine is getting on my nerves.... But it has shaded my opinion of y2k.. Someone give advice. I hate going this road alone. What you all say makes sense to me.

-- LINN (therestof@thestory.com), November 16, 1999.