Of all the people I have decided not to mention y2k to again, my mother WASN"T one of them. She read Gary North, struggled with a spouse who said if things went wrong industry would just switch over to manual, and passed along a few of my activism updates occasionally, saying "Who knows? Maybe they'll get the idea."

And then I let this slip: I have learned so much that is negative about the way this culture is functioning, that I began to believe that a jolt of national self-examination created by y2k could only be good. I even stated that I wasn't hoping anyone would die or be seriously hurt, but I was hoping for change.

I wonder if anyone out there was hoping, as I was, that dealing with the issues we faced a year ago would awaken us to more self-reliance, but now believes, as I do, that only actual disruptions will sound the social buzzer.

My mother seems seriously disturbed by this. She has warned me not to tell God what to do. My angle is that prayers for continuity [Dear God please help us fix this thing before 1-1-00 and get straight through another presidential election year?!] do indeed attempt to tell God what to do.

My question is: Do you think about y2k as an opportunity for social change and what level disruption [1-low to 10-complete] will it take?

At what level will my state's spokespeople say, "We were wrong and we should have encouraged you to take care of yourselves"?

I have lots of questions.

-- Becky (rmbolte@wvadventures.net), November 09, 1999

Answers

Not that I DON't love my job, or my commute, or the pollution, or the chemtrails, or the genetically altered foodstuffs, or the autoexhaust, or the clearcutting, or the destruction of all wildlife, or the extinction of most species, or the IRS, or sealed buildings, or........ to hell with society. Let's take our chances with Nature.

-- doomie (maybe@I.am), November 09, 1999.

Well here's the rub. As expected, many Tinfoils, unhappy with their pathetic little lives, struggling at the outside of society, DO want TEOTWAWKI. Perhaps, they think, major social, political and economic change will elevate them into a place of significance. I would call this the "dirty little secret" of the Doomer brigade

"I don't know about you all, but I'm right tired of the world as we know it....Can't wait for the sound of them cosmic keys jingling and that big voice boomin' across the skies, "Gentlemen....its closin' time." and the Spirit andmthe bride say, "Come, Lord Jesus!"

Jay Urban (Jayho99@aol.com), November 01, 1999

"This culture offers us corporate slavery and snickers bars, two car garages and shiney chains. The people are such contented cattle they'll never wake up to the fact that we need a revolution.I pray that y2k will bring teotwaWki bad enough that we loose the trust that has enabled us to be so complacently enslaved.Our numbers are too high anyway,if our species is lucky it'll be a few billion dead and not just a few million.The species doesn't need you or me just enough genetic diversity to ensure survival.Maybe then our species won't suicide like it appears to be so eager to do. "

I pray for TEOTWAWKI (hopeful@doome.r), November 01, 1999.

-- Y2K pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 09, 1999.

I recommend you read the 1996 novel Into the Forest by Jean Hegland. A story of social collapse seen through the eyes of two rural sisters. It is a good preparation novel at least, in addition to a moving narrative about our culture's deadly excessive consumption and dependence on food/goods external to what we can make ourselves.

-- (intothe@forest.int), November 09, 1999.

Now the delusional doomer dummies will come out. All you pukes who don't care for society -- find somewhere to go and GO!!!!

Nobody is holding a gun to your head. I'm sure there are some isolated places on the globe you can go. You pukes want to enjoy the benefits of society, but want the world to be how YOU!!! prefer. Talk about people wanting to be their own little tin gods. I'll bet the deal with most of you doomer pukes who are anti-society is real simple -- you have been "dissapointed" with your level of success, and feel "undervalued" since you "should be" such a legend (at least in your own mind), and resent that reality does not meet your expectations, wishes and fantasies.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHH!!!!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAH!!!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

Why don't you delusional doomer dummies face up to reality, change whatever you can and are willing to work at, and just accept the rest. Heck, after Y2K turns out NOT!!! to be TEOTWAWKI next year, you might even want to come out of your regressive bunkers and contribute to society. A fate worse than death -- or just the fear of looking into the mirror and seeing yourself for the DORK!!! you are!!

And to all you people who like to dress up your anti- views in a cloak of religious self-righteousness, I say this:

I know society falls far short of God's ideal. Always has. However, ask yourself this: Have YOU!! been the person you should be? Have YOU been a shinning light of example...making a difference where you are? Well....maybe improvement...should start right where you are...with YOU!!! Think about the qualities and characteristics you rail against...and think really hard....and I'll bet you will see much of the same in YOURSELF AND HOW YOU ARE -- work on you, doomer. And don't cop out like a drunk and say "well, I'm not as bad as so and so"....work on YOU!! doomer...and you will have your fat a$$ed middle aged whitebread selfish baby boomer greedy hands full, you puke!

Go hide in a bunker if you want -- preferably in some remote part of the globe, but have the guts and honesty not to dress up your self-centered, selfish puke drivel in the guise of "caring" about the society you hope goes down the tubes next year you puke maggot.

-- Genius (codeslinger@work.now), November 09, 1999.

Becky, keep letting things like that "slip" and someone will soon have questions for you. Questions like where do you live, do you own any firearms, are you part of any cult or organisation, do you have any unusual plans for the rollover period, have you every been treated for any kind of mental disorder, are you a convicted felon, are you currently taking any kind of prescribed drugs, etc.

Now is not the time to start telling loved ones you hope for a change in society, even if you just mean something simple for the better.

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), November 09, 1999.

Yes and no. I would like change- but not just any change. and there is no guarantee that the change that would occur would be change that I'd like- or that would be good. And for that matter- who says the change I'd like to see is what you'd like to see? Some people love their automated citified high tech existences- and would shudder at the mere thought of living my lifestyle- which I am happy with BTW, Y2K Pro.

So- yes and no- but shift happens as they say, and life is not static, so the one thing we can be sure of is that change will occur.

-- farmer (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), November 09, 1999.

"...... to hell with society. Let's take our chances with Nature. "

-- doomie (maybe@I.am), November 09, 1999.

Oh, doomie! Dying of natural causes can be prolonged and painful in the extreme. Even non-fatal natural illnesses can be debilitating. Do you really want to go back to level of society where a scratch can develop into a major infection? Where a sore throat can lead to pneumonia and death?

Do you really want to go back to cultivation with a stick? Do you really want to huddle in the dark every night with no way to make light?

How far 'back to Nature' do you want to go? The Amish go to the doctor, and they use gasoline-powered farm implements. Do you want to go back further than the Amish are? They use store-bought cloth and store-bought hand tools. They work at jobs outside of the home to make financial ends meet. They aren't totally self-sufficient. They aren't 'in tune with Nature' to a large degree.

Do you really want to chance it with Nature? Take off all your clothes. Put back on those clothes you made yourself. Did you grow the sheep or the cotton and shear the wool or pick the cotton? Did you spin the threads and weave the cloth? Did you kill an animal and tan its hide to make your own clothes? I'll bet you're still standing there naked. That's Nature -- Nature brings you into the world naked.

If our world society fails completely as a result of y2k, Nature may need several thousands of years to clean up the resulting nuclear mess. The bio-plagues locked up in labs might get out, and some of them have 100% fatality rates according to the very folks who invented them.

Nature has no soul, no conscience, and no intellect to appeal to when you screw up. How far back to Nature do you want to go?

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), November 09, 1999.

If Y2K is as bad as it might be, it will certainly bring about massive social change. It will destroy our compulsive consumption mentality and the whole poisonous irresponsible adolescent legacy of the 1960's. Our spoiled brat society will get itself spanked severely and sent to bed without supper for a long while.

The problem is that the kind of system that replaces the decadent one we now live in may not be the kind we're going to like or want. Often in times of massive social upheaval, a strong leader takes charge and tyranny results.

Personally, although I think we need a thorough social/political house cleaning, I don't long for Y2K to be really disastrous because of the innocents who will suffer. However, it won't hurt my feelings at all to see smug, arrogant people (think of some of the more obnoxious pollies on this forum) go hungry.

-- cody (cody@y2ksurvive.com), November 09, 1999.

NO! Not ever.

What I "hope" for is that people will come together and help one another in their communities... if push comes to shove... locally.

(It's easier to do that when more are prepared... rather than less).

There are many lessons to learn with potential global Y2K repercussions. Or not.

I "suspect" Y2K will trigger numerous social transformations... but it's up to each individual to meet challenges... with grace... rather than anger... or fear.

Remember your karma, and the "bigger picture."

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 09, 1999.

Hi-jacked by a radical [gasp!] doomer and a genius!!

Thanks to the people who wrote answers to ME and not HIM/HER.

Hamster - what are you talking about? Who would care that I don't think like the next housewife? Where I live we put it in the paper under "Dear Editor," and I believe if you came to my town and stopped in at the bank asking for y2k activists they would point you to my house. Knowing my e-mail address anyone could even look in the most obvious phone directory and call me. But [seriously] who would?

Becky

-- Becky (rmbolte@wvadventures.net), November 09, 1999.

Genius (codeslinger@work.now), I am fed up with your hypocrisy and trolling. How do you thinking this Forum's participants would view you if they knew who you are and from WHERE YOU ARE POSTING!

Alert: Genius is a major disgusting troll.

Genius' location would TELL ALL THE ULTIMATE TRUTH ABOUT Y2K.

-- Who will out the sickness? (troll@buster.in.chains), November 09, 1999.

Into the Forest - Thanks.

-- Becky (rmbolte@wvadventures.net), November 09, 1999.

Be careful what you wish for, Becky....I know what you mean though. Unfortunately, the "crash" of society will not bring out the best in folks. Most folks today have no idea just how difficult life would be without all of our modern conveniences. I don't think you'd like it and I KNOW most folks wouldn't.

I believe you want a social change. Again unfortunately, the social change that you envision only happens after terrible destruction. Are you willing to live through that? Remember the Bolshevik Revolution? Remember the French Liberation? Change does not come easily or peacefully.

So, be careful what you wish for...you just may get it.

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), November 09, 1999.

My experience is that positive change comes from long slow work to give up my disgusting selfishness (sins) to God, and to ask other people's forgiveness.

Yes y2k is going to bring massive change, but change in itself is not necessarily good..... I believe many will suffer and die and have their world view changed beyond repair. Let's pray now for God to have mercy.

-- seraphima (seraphima@aol.com), November 09, 1999.

I'm doing my best to survive because the molecular nano breakthrough is going to be a societal change and scientists describe it as a revolution. I do want that particular "revolution." I want to be alive the day 6 billion people wake up to a surreal sci fi lifestyle. I want the nano boxes which ends world hunger forever, I want the new gravity machines in place of elevators, the end of working for a living, and 6 billion people live and concentrate on how one can be entertained for the day. I've always deep inside hated change and dreaded the future until I read about molecular nano technology, and for the first time in my life I am running towards the future so hard I am breathless. That future can't get here fast enough. Y2K is trivial to me. A very nasty thing to just get through and put behind oneself.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 09, 1999.

I'm hoping that Y2K is just bad enough to knock the Jerry Springer show off the air permanently.

-- (other@than.that.....no), November 09, 1999.

For those who think social change will rid society of all that is bad, FORGET IT. The problems with technology are easier to understand and predict than are the reactions of people. We in the West and especially the U.S. have a pretty cozy existence at the expense of most the world's resources. The control that is maintained is because of the technology and the lure of trying to make it to our standard of living. There our a lot of have nots who do not like us (US). If the center does not hold and the fabric that holds the post industrial society tears apart the consequences are not going to be comfortable for anyone, prepared or not.

Think of the barely contained armies in many countries. Sure they are oversea's and why worry we have the Atlantic and Pacific to protect us. If the disruptions are greater in Asia and Europe then whoever wins over their will need the food that is over here (top grain exporters include U.S. largest, Canada, Brazil, Australia).

The depression era generation seems stronger because they survived the depression, WW2 and the Cold War. The weaknesses and childishness of modern society will be magnified in times of desperation. I do not wish for anything bad to happen anywhere. Certainly not in those area's of the world where food is not a given, but it would be follish not to contemplate what instability world wide would foster further down the bumpy road.

What if Russia and China get hit hard? Who gets the blame? How will they try to "retaliate." China's army and Russian missiles and nationalistic leaders.

The depression following defeat in WW1 brought us hitler? No I am praying for a BITR, please let it be a BITR. But if it isn't, then what?

Utopia doesn't lie at the end of this road, bump or otherwise.

-- squid (Itsdarker@down.here), November 09, 1999.

Take a look at yourself, there has been a social change already. Are any of you the same person you were 3 years ago. It may not be on as grand a scale as you might desire, but it's there none the less.

helen, Nature is God's Creation, and yes, I'd much rather deal with Nature (where there is real truth) instead of dealing with man's truth and much of his creation...

-- BH (bh_silentvoice@hotmail.com), November 09, 1999.

Almost everything that I enjoy in life represents a triumph over nature. Defeating nature is the nature of man.

dave

-- dave (wootendave@hotmail.com), November 09, 1999.

I don't know who said this but; From Slavery you get faith From faith you get courage. From Courage you liberty. From Liberty you wealth. From Wealth you get waste. From Waste you get apathy. From Apathy you fear. From Fear you slavery.

-- y2kready com (y2kready@aok.com), November 09, 1999.

Do you guys remember a couple weeks ago when Jay posted this and all of a sudden the thread was filled with evil doomer posts?

Remember my begging you to delete them?

The polly trolls PLANT fake doomer posts so they can have future material.

What scum. Just so you know what they're doing.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), November 09, 1999.

lisa

Your buddy Dubya was in town yesterday with his bro' Jeb. Dubya raised $500,000 at lunch yesterday.

Not a bad lunch hour.......:-)

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), November 09, 1999.

Lisa,

Right on. Unfortunately, so many are willing to continue rising to the bait. Why is that?

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), November 09, 1999.

Lisa... it's their "meme or not to meme" action/reaction "quest."

Sad.

And quite "typical."

*Sigh*

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 09, 1999.

The only social change I see as likely is a negative one. Fascists gain popularity during troublesome times and ideals like freedom/equality/ecology lose interest.

No good will come from any technical problems, computer or otherwise, whether relating to the date or anything else; not now, not next year, not ever. Wish upon any star you like, or pray, or write to Santa - it just isn't going to happen.

-- Gus (y2kk@usa.net), November 09, 1999.

Lisa and Diane, What are you talking about?

-- Becky (rmbolte@wvadventures.net), November 09, 1999.

Oh God, Deano, please tell me you're not a member of that disgusting troll tag team...............

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), November 09, 1999.

lisa

Nah. Not a member of that group. Just saw it on the news last night.

My favorite 'candidate' pulled her name out a few months back.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), November 09, 1999.

troll@buster.in.chains,

My my my...who might you be....I wonder..not! I find your post amusing. My "location" is a result of where I was sent for an interview by the consulting firm I worked with when I started here...not because I'm any kind of "official" at the place I "appear" to be posting from -- I'm not; I'm just a "worker bee". I've never had an interview in IT without a job offer...so here I am! I've never been concerned about the industry I sling code in...I'm just a programmer...and a very fine person, thank you very much! Hey, most women like me....why....I've even been proposed to on numerous occasions...must be a great catch, huh? Still haven't found the right one...

*sigh*

I think the issue is not me....not even the nerve my post struck in you. Must have hit close to the truth, eh? But instead, the issue is why would one spend time "stalking" posters to this forumn, and trying to attribute to them motives based on their IP? I can think of a couple of reasons. First, the messenger is more important than the message here at STINKBOMB 2000. If my above post were directed at "pollies" instead of doomers, I DOUBT YOU!! would have had any problem with it. You haven't before very often, have you?

Second, with the lack of bad news, and not wanting to appear duped by the fear mongers who got you stired up about Y2K, you seek to find a reason why the world hasn't (and next year won't) ended as predicted by doomers. So you comb the logs, clinging to every .mil or .gov site as "proof" this place is under attack or at least attention from "TPTB". Grow up, dork!

You are NOT going to be saved from feeling foolish at having wasted so much of your time on this STINKBOMB 2000 when Y2K turns out not to be TEOTWAWKI by delusional thinking that anybody that "appears" to be posting from a .mil or .gov site is on some organizations payroll and directed to "disrupt" this forumn. No...they are just individuals who happen to be posting from wherever it's convienient at the time. Any REAL PSYOPS folks would not be posting from where they work, you dummy!!

I find it BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! amusing that charges of "disrupting" this forumn are routinely leveled at "pollies" -- not at doomers...no matter how rabid or psychopathic the doomer's post is. I thought this place was supposed to be for the discussion of Y2K....not just a doomer "pep" rally for heading for the hills thinking.

Reason seems to be a lost art of the "true believers" among the doomers. Some poking of fun and derision at them is warrented, IMO -- and richly deserved, too. Bet you, "dear", rarely get hot under the collar when some doomer puke foams at the mouth rabidly at some "polly", do you? Kind of says it all, doesn't it? Don't you hate it when I'm right?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!

oh, and by the way, have a nice day, "dear"...ta ta....

BWAHAHAHAHAHH!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

-- Genius (codeslinger@work.now), November 09, 1999.

No, I'm not hoping for the worst. I suspect that things will be bad enough without going to a "Gary North" scenario (14 on the scale...).

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), November 09, 1999.

Genius, get a grip man, or get some Prozac, or something! You are losing it.

-- Get a Grip (getagrip@yourelosingit.com), November 09, 1999.

Becky,

Absolutely Not!

I like my life thank you. I have a job I enjoy, finally. I have a home almost paid for. We just bought a brand new truck. I would like to be able to fly to California to visit my daughter. I would like to see my son who lives within 30 miles of me with no major planning. I like my washer and dryer, dishwasher, vacuum cleaner and microwave. I want to be able to continue to use them. I like going to the grocery store and picking up all kinds of convenience foods from the freezer and the deli. I like my life.

I detest the thought of having to haul water. I like to camp, but not day in and day out. I hate summer time in Georgia with the heat, in fact I seldom venture out of doors then. I do not want to do without air conditioning. I do NOT want to wash clothes by hand. I do not want to do without electricity. I do not want to work in the garden. I was not born into the wrong century. I like modern conveniences.

Although I have prepared for all I can, just in case, I do not want to have to use them in negative circumstances. I want to be able to use them at my convenience.

-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), November 10, 1999.

Genius, poor showing.

Paycheck docked $50.00

Can't believe the big guy recommended you.

-- J. Rendon (dude@with.contract), November 10, 1999.

Considering the topic of this thread I would like to recommend a novel by Tom Clancy, Rainbow Six. Those of you that support the concept of slipping back to nature may rethink your position.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), November 10, 1999.