Maybe this is one reason we are "doomers".

I think it is very humbling, and tremendously difficult to be able to truly contemplate the end of all one knows and loves. It doesn't matter what our lifestyle is, or our past. The fact that "all we know" could actually vanish - - - is very sobering.

I'm sure that all of us, anyone who's on this Forum, enjoys life and all that each of us are accustomed to. Giving that up, is in a way, like dying.

Some may accuse us (Doomers) of having a "death wish". In isolated cases, that may be a factor. I would think a much less elaborate vehicle might be chosen in such cases.

I think most of us who can see the real possibility of TEOTWAWKI, have the capacity to "see" our place in the scheme of things, the scheme of Life. We realize we are mortal, that Man and Life have not always been what's represented on the current TV shows. We are fragile in many ways.

To not be able to deal with one's own death, is a problem. If not now, then certainly when one IS on death's door. Better to be able to face it while one is alive and "relatively conscious", I believe. For each of us, that entails facing our darkest nature, and owning up to who we really are, and all that we really stand for.

These tasks are harder for some of us than others, depending on how honest we've been with ourselves throughout our whole life. (I'm really trying to not make this a "religious" deal, although I do believe that Man is not just the flesh and bones of his body.)

Perhaps it is that, that allows us "Doomers", the capacity to contemplate "dying" to what we've known, and try and see a foggy, unknown future, in the most realistic way we possibly can.

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), November 09, 1999

Answers

I'll say one thing, you DOOMERS sure are philofuckingsophical.

-- Peanut (123@4.com), November 09, 1999.

Gregg,

Kudos, insightful.

Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), November 09, 1999.

Eloquent but empty. My take on the philosphy of the "doomer" as portrayed by gregg is that they find it easier to roll over and die than the "polly". The "doomer" has come to grips that he or she is but a leaf on the tree of life and that its time for life to fall.

Accepting fate is one thing, but Y2k is not "fate", we can control the outcome if we are persistant in not letting the failures overtake us.

Some have used the rant "Y2k cannot be fixed" and that is sad because Y2k is not a entity or a physical, tangible thing. Y2k is a concept embedded in our computer systems, often incorrectly, and it CAN be fixed even on failure if we dont roll over and die like the "doomer".

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), November 09, 1999.

Gregg,

Well said.

And as to the response by "hamster" re "laying down and dying": why then are WE the ones preparing for this? If we felt it was futile than what would be the point? People who prudently prepare for an event of this possible magnitude are taking steps to insure their survival...it the "pollies" that have relinquished the rights to their own future by having nothing better to do than naysay. Get a hobby!

-- Ludi (ludi@rollin.com), November 09, 1999.

Actually- if you were to spend some time contemplating various meteors impacting the earth and what would then result, Y2k would seem like a breeze at that point. Actually- it is the difference between TEOTWAWKI with a bang or a whimper.

But seriously- I've spent some time recently contemplating various such scenarios. that has done several things for me besides initially scaring me shitless. It has made me consider just what we do need to stay alive, versus stay alive and thrive, versus thrive and be comgfortable. It has made me examine the reality that we cannot know all or control all and that much is beyond our control. that for instance, I could prep for a meteor, but only one that didn't directly impact where I live- if that were to happen- oh well....

It has actually been a useful exercise to do this and I recomend it to others. Contemplating things such as this will remove much of the fear associated with y2k. I have also experienced the reality that most people cannot even begin to contemplate the possibility of computer related failures on a worldwide basis, let alone a meteor impact. They cannot envision how that could be allowed to happen. So be it.

In fact- the thought makes people uncomfortable- I know as we invited a whole bunch of people over to our place for 11/7 for a "Rock" party! It is truly beyond the ability of most to comprehend any of this- very few are willing to look at it with any level of scrutiny. What will be, will be at this point. Anyone having a Y2K party??

-- farmer (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), November 09, 1999.

Gregg,

I agree. It's about being able to face whatever comes because we can see beyond the fast food chains and the Ralph Lauren sheets. We are able to recall the rise and fall of civilizations and the birth and death of stars and see the big picture. Best.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 09, 1999.

>Y2k is a concept embedded in our computer systems, often >incorrectly, and it CAN be fixed even on failure if we dont roll >over and die like the "doomer"

Fixed by whom exactly? I am a developer working on a system with known Y2k... issues... and frankly, I don't care. None of my friends and family will be effected by the problems, so if things go pear shaped on even a moderate scale, what do you think I am going to be doing post Y2K?

1) Working long hours under difficult conditions to fix the cause of a tiny facet of the larger problem, to benefit people I will never meet.

2) Responding to the effects of the hundreds or thousands of *other* Y2K problems in the way that best protects me and my loved ones.

It's not a hard question. Don't assume that us programmers are any more altruistic than Joe Public. If things DO go wrong, in even a moderate way, then we'll just as busy as Joe looking out for ourselves, make no mistake about that.

Sorry. :(

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), November 09, 1999.

Does anyone one out there realize if the government had spoken out about what was coming 2 years ago and advocated reasonable preparation, we would not be so ardently divided between 2 camps?

Discussions and debates would have been aired in public. More pressure would have been applied to all industries on a national, if not global scale. Instead, we have struggled this whole time with 'who is telling the truth?' and 'who did you hear it from?'.

For me it's information that continues to leak out about the governments deliberate stranglehold on the truth and the popular media's complicity with this.

This is a classis example:

http://www.audiocentral.com/rshows/mir/default.html

Here is another good one.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001jhs

"John Koskinen, Head of the President's White House Council on Year 2000 Transition, has been telling state officials that they should assume an electrical outage of three weeks duration as part of their contingency planning. While Koskinen is not asserting that such an outage will occur, shouldn't the nation's nuclear reactor operators also take this as the baseline for their contingency planning?" Said Mary Olson, NIRS Nuclear Y2K Project Coordinator. "Loss of off-site power and loss of back-up power, also called Station Blackout, is the single largest contributor of risk to reactor operation, according to NRC. What makes January 1, 2000 unique is that every reactor system in the country, and indeed, the world will be challenged on the same day."

The more I see of this the more ardent I am about the irresponsibilty of the people who have kept this crucial information from us...that is the 'us' that needs prompting by authoritarian types in order to responsibly prepare ourselves and our families.

I'm a doomer because of these unbelievably horrid creeps that think they have the right to put the american people in harm's way.

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), November 09, 1999.

Colin, I never thought programmers were altruistic. I wasn't "patting" you on the back. I never said "Doomers" were willing to roll over. The very fact that we are preparing shows that we are going to try to survive.

People that don't want to face the possibility of civilization collapse, are going to be in a very bad way, if they are not ready emotionally, psychologically, and physically, and spiritually.

We will help where we can, but everyone has limits. We are trying NOT to limit our perceptions to what the mind-numbing Media would have us believe is Reality.

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), November 09, 1999.