Well, now I've done it. Be it for better or worse, after all my preps, I couldn't leave well enuff alone! This weekend, we found out my wife is now expecting. Normally a joyous event, I nonetheless have some small concerns. Those who know me on this forum, (as a quasi-regular), know I'm a bit of a doomer, (I'm figuring on 3-6 months of problems) but now, more than ever, I'm hoping for nothing at all. Any ideas on a July birth? I've got training as a medic in the Army, and some more with the S.F. , but I don't feel confident enough to do this kind of thing... Does anyone know about the 'old school' births? Any suggestions? Any courses that they teach on this kinda thing? Help!!! I really could use the info !! Thanks!!!

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), November 08, 1999

Answers

Congratulations! Any basic first aid manual should have this information. As I recall, you should pretty much let things procede naturally, with one exception. When the head emerges, have the woman stop pushing while you suck the mucus out of the baby's mouth with some sort of aspirating device. Otherwise on it's first breath, it will suck a lot of mucus into it's little lungs and run the risk of pneumonia. I think one of those bulb things would work - remember, this is very important - first you squeeze the air out of the bulb, then you stick it in the baby's throat, then you allow the bulb to fill, then you take it out and squeeze out the contents. Repeat until all mucus has been removed, then allow the woman to push again. DO NOT SCREW UP UNDER PRESSURE by putting the thing into the babies mouth and then squeezing the bulb. In the abscense of a bulb thingy, a straw would work, provided you aren't squeamish.

The woman can do the rest, provided you are blessed with a normal delivery.

-- Amy Leone (leoneamy@aol.com), November 08, 1999.

I would suggest contacting the National Association of Childbirth Centers. I had a home birth five years ago. Although a midwife was present, my husband did most of the delivery with no complications. Although it sounds scary and dangerous, my experience was positive and within the tolerable levels of pain. Also look up some local midwives or birth centers in your area and get some literature that they use for coach classes at the center. Good luck!!

-- ihop4food (ihop4food@aol.com), November 08, 1999.

Congrats Billy Boy
I delivered both my kids myself (with my wife's
help :-) In most cases with healthy people, there
is no problem. Home deliveries keep you out of
that den of disease they call a hospital. No
episiotomy, no silver nitrate, no ultra sound
There are complications that can develop like
the cord being wrapped around the neck or breach
births. A midwife helped with the second birth
and was much appreciated.

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), November 08, 1999.

Congratulations, You obviously haven't been spending enough time in Costco and Sam's. Something to consider. Take advantage of technology when and as available. Because of technology childbirth "seems" to be an automatic event. In earlier era's the number of children and mothers who died in childbirth was a lot higher. Not trying to put a damper on your ideas but let me share our first born story. The pregnancy was perfect. Dr. decided decided to induce because of the due date. During induction the stress of the the contractions made something go wrong. If we had been anywhere but in a hospital I would have lost both my wife and child. Consider hospitals if they are working and possible. If not or you decide for natural childbirth best of luck. P.S. pick a stellar name, we need more leaders in this society.

-- squid (Itsdark@down.here), November 08, 1999.

squid,
If you were not in a hospital, they would
not have induced and there would be no
complications. n'est pas?

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), November 08, 1999.

squid

>Because of technology childbirth "seems" to be an automatic event.

As a species we're actually amazingly well adapted for birthing. There wouldn't be many of us if we weren't. The illusion that technology makes it safer is in many ways just that, an illusion.

>The pregnancy was perfect. Dr. decided to induce because of the due date. During induction the stress of the the contractions made something go wrong.

If the pregnancy was "perfect" why the hell would you need to induce unless it was to accomodate the doctors busy schedule, or to make the $1,000 a day hospital bed available. The excessive stress of the contractions was CAUSED by the induction. That's what potossin DOES. They usually follow up by balancing the dose with more anesthesia, making the woman even less able to help in the process.

>If we had been anywhere but in a hospital I would have lost both my wife and child.

If you'd been anywhere but a hospital, the pregnancy may well have proceeded without one intervention leading to another leading to another, etc. Obviously I don't know the specifics of your case, but what MAY have happened to you DOES happen all too often in hospitals around the US often leading to unnecessary c-sections, which have been on the rise for years (now 1 in 5 births nationally, over 800,000). As many as half are judged by some in the industry to be completely unneccesary, and there have even been some sucessful lawsuits.

-- Dad (cluein@home.birth), November 08, 1999.

Midwives are fine. In view of the last post though ---- theres another argument for being in a small town. If there is still trouble with hospitals in July (unlikely, I think) a local Doctor you know will be an immense benefit. If possible, talk a little to your Doctor --- virtually all will be willing to help in an emergency if they know who you are.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), November 08, 1999.

Billy Boy- Congratulations! I used the book Our Bodies, Ourselves as my bible during both my pregnancies. It has very good information on the birthing process. If your wife has had a previous normal delivery, there should be little to worry about. In any event,there could be complications and it is best to seek the help of a nurse/midwife/doctor wherever possible. Good Luck!

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), November 08, 1999.

Lets please not get on the Hospital VS Natural mode here gang...please... I'd much prefer to do this in a hospital or halfway midwife type of place, but If worse comes to worse, I'd like to have more than a slight clue/suggestions on how to deal with this!! No more flames please!

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan@Yahoo.com), November 08, 1999.

It wasn't the induction it was the contraction, the imbelical cord was not fully attached to the placenta. If you really think that childbirth is always a do it yourself process go walking through some older grave yards. Not to be macabre but that is what happened. I am not against natural childbirth but if you think all the babies in NICU (neonatal intensive care unit) are there because of technology and not the problems (no matter how slight) than can happen because of the complexity of the human body, keep believing. Being there I know that my miracle was truly that a miracle. But the technology used to bring my child back did not hurt the odds. Again if you disagree fine, but attacking me for disagreeing is somewhat childish. After going through this I personally would not choose not to bring a child in anything less than a level 2 (preferably 3) child trauma hospital.

The argument that if I have yet to experience a failure than a failure can not occur has been seen before on this forum.

Make your own decisions but do it based on all the possiblities.

-- squid (Itsdark@down.here), November 08, 1999.

To return to the original question. If looking for a midwife try to get a number of previous births. Has there been any complications and did any of these births need hospitalization. Get as much education as possible, I faintly remember there might be a Masters level degree. Has the individual passed any certification tests (are there any?). Remember as good as education is, nothing beats experience.

Again, Best of luck

-- squid (Itsdark@down.here), November 08, 1999.

I have extensive experience - in UNIX kernel programming! But the last three of our seven children were delivered at home by me with coaching form midwives (the last one all by "myself" as she came quicker than the midwives. My wife has hospital and home experience and from her view the home birth is far, far and away less stressful (even the first one at home) and we had "good" hospital experiences. The medical facts of the matter are, however, that a home birth is far SAFER for mother and baby. For the 5-8% of births that require medical care, good prenatal care by a midwife can detect problems early. SO apart from the subjective benefits of a home birth, there are real objective benefits.

There is a lot of good advice to share, more than I have time to share now. But if you contact some midwives in your area, particularly if they participate in NAMA (North American Midwives Asso.) you will likely find a lot of help. I suggest you choose a midwife with at least 80 births under her belt and has handled some of the "comlications" such as the cord wrapped around the neck one or two times, or an arm coming our first, or things like that. Our experience with our children has helped us in recent years in assisting our sheep and goats give birth when they needed a little help. Usually it's the other way around :-)

There is a book we bought, among a few others, that is small, addresses amateurs helping a birth (like me, or a policeman) which our midwives suggested. It was practical, how-to, and clearly written. I don't remember the title, but ask about it from your midwives.

II Timothy 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

-- Programmer Farmer (sevenchildren@home.org), November 08, 1999.

One thing I didn't make clear - I understand that 5-8% of children are bette roff in a hospital for the extra medical care they or the mothers need. I just think home births should be the norm and hospital births the exception.

-- Programmer Farmer (sevenchildren@home.org), November 08, 1999.

Billy Boy,

I was studying to be a midwife for a time and may well end up on that career path again soon. There are aome excellent books available about home birth that will help to prepare you at least mentally for such an occurance.

Yes there are courses where they teach this kind of thing. However your best bet will be to find the midwives in your community. I have a web site devoted to Y2k and reproduction issues. Under the birth section are many links to midwives.

http://members.aol.com/Y2ksex2000/sexy2khomepage.html

All that said - congradulations! You can be comforted in knowing that should you end up with a home birth the statistics are on your side. Home births are statistically much safer than hospital births ending up with healthier moms and babies. I have had two babies - the first one in the hospital and the second one at home with no intervention at all. No question in my mind of where I would prefer to give birth. At home.

Human beings have been and continue to give birth with absolutely no assistance whatsoever for millenia all over the world. Our current population is boistrous testimony to the resiliance of moms and babes everywhere.

Good luck!!!!

Spider - your my kind of dude.

-- River Soma (riversoma@aol.com), November 08, 1999.

My most humble and gracious thanks to those who answered my posting...I'll let y'all know B or G ect as the time rolls on. Hopefully we can all have a laugh over this (my worries that is!)after the 1st of the year!

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan@Yahoo.com), November 08, 1999.

Billy Boy,

Congrats to both parents! I came a little late to the party on this thread,so just a word of support: I planned two homebirths and in the end had two 'unplanned' in-hospital cesareans...and I'm still a huge supporter of lay midwives and homebirth. Talk to the midwives in your community, as others here have advised. The level of caregiving support increases exponentially outside a hospital environment, simply because your caregivers can afford to give you more time--hour-long appointments are standard, as opposed to the OB/GYN's 10 mins. If you work w/ a good midwifery practice, by the time your partner reaches term you'll both be very well educated.

I consider my two homebirth experiences to have been the most important step I've taken, pre-y2k, towards taking responsibility for my life.

-- silver ion (ag3@interlog.com), November 08, 1999.

My wife is a certified nurse-midwife (CNM) who does both home and hospital birth. If you'd like to open up a discussion over on the prep forum, we could go into a variety of issues there.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), November 08, 1999.

I gave birth to one son at home and one in hospital. I would go with the home birth in a second. My midwife was late so we delivered on our own. Wonderful experience! So much more humane than any hospital.

Get the book Spiritual Midwifery. A community called The Farm decided to do all their own birthing and learned much about midwifery and childbirth well documented in this book. Hospital bias is rampant in mainstream books.

Hospital complication rates are far higher than home birth rates. And my midwife was from Denmark where home births are normal and the infant mortality rate is the lowest in the world.

Once you arm yourself with knowledge from the home birth movement and the breast feeding movement, La Leche, you will be glad for the opportunity.

In comparing my 2 births, the rushing off to hospital, mandatory invasive proceedures, and lack of moral support or familiar surroundings only brought me much fear, anxiety and tension that caused problems in itself. In the home birth I could relax, choose my position, get lots of support from husband and friends, which made my labor move smoothly and quickly. I delivered in just over 2 hours with no complications and no interference, making it truly a spiritual and emotionally satisfying event.

Good luck to you both.

-- Lora (artemis45@hotmail.com), November 08, 1999.

Look folks, this ain't nothing to screw around with. Yes the vast majority of births occur without any problem and a physician and hospital are not necessary. BUT, if they do go wrong they go way wrong, real fast and you have a major disaster on your hands, with frequently not one but two patients at risk. Just a few of the problems that can occur and can cause a dead or damaged baby or mom are: Massive bleeding, breach presentation, prolapsed cord, uterine rupture, fetal distress ( multiple causes ) failure of labor to progress, amniotic embolus, meconium aspiration etc etc etc. Many of these need to be corrected within minutes, no time to call an ambulance and get to a hospital. Picture Russian roulette. Most of the time you get away with it, but when you don't..... Home delivery is for newspapers.

An ED Doc

-- kozak (kozak@formerusaf.guv), November 09, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

Today's issue of "Dear Karen" seeks volunteers to appear on Oprah Winfrey about this issue. They will not be including anyone who's trying to have a millenium baby (apparently). Here's some of what she says about this:

If you would be willing to appear on The Oprah Show and tell your story (what you're worried about, what back-up childbirth plans you've made, what alternatives you've found, etc.) then I'd like to hear from you. Because of the late date, I need to hear from you by midnight, November 10, 1999.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), November 10, 1999.