Y2K - Canadian military HQ to quit Toronto for 'stronghold' as Y2K approaches...

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[Note especially in the following story: "We can't be dependent on the civilian infrastructure; we need to be self-sufficient with our own power generation and communication abilities." ]

TORONTO SUN, November 6, 1999

Military makes Y2K move

By SCOT MAGNISH -- City Hall Bureau

Military headquarters in Toronto will move from an office tower in North York to a stronghold in Downsview in anticipation of Y2K bug mayhem, officials said yesterday.

Maj. Stephane Grenier of Land Force Central Area (LFCA) said the temporary move out of 5775 Yonge St. is part of the military's plan to deal with a millennium disaster as the clock strikes 12 on Dec. 31, 1999.

'SELF-SUFFICIENT'

At Downsview "we can be self-sufficient," Grenier said, predicting the move will start mid-December and finish Christmas Day. "We can't be dependent on the civilian infrastructure; we need to be self-sufficient with our own power generation and communication abilities."

Grenier stressed the military's fear of a Y2K disaster is "much less than it was" a few months ago but that preparedness for every eventuality is still vital.

Grenier also said "a couple of hundred reservists" from Toronto-based infantry, armoured and medical units will be on "immediate standby" New Year's Eve and another 5,000 regular troops in Petawawa will be "ready to deploy" should the need arise.

[ENDS]

For a huge range of extracts and quotes on Y2K, visit the 'New World Order Intelligence Update' web page at:

http://www.inforamp.net/~jwhitley/Y2KQUOTE.HTM

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), November 06, 1999

Answers

Thanks for this news. I live in Toronto and I am glad to see them taking it seriously. One of my main concerns is law and order. I only hope that they have big reserves of wheat and water for people too.

-- citygirl (citygirl@idirect.com), November 06, 1999.

Every few days I see some news piece from Canada and then one from the USA regarding Y2k awareness and preparation. I am always struck how the canadians are doing so much more serious contingency planning and pushing for awareness of their civilians, yet here in the US we seem to get those calming releases that we dont need to do anything. New York City has their bunker 20+ stories up in a building in downtown Manhattan, whats up with that. Isnt that the worst place to be?.

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), November 06, 1999.

Uh... Brian!

Diane

(A sort'a honorary Canadian)

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 06, 1999.


Citigirl:

I live in Toronto, too - and I wouldn't depend upon there being 'big reserves of wheat and water for people'. As I understand it, the city has passed responsibility for Y2K coordination from metro police to the Department of Public Works - the same fine folks who fill the potholes! The police just don't think that its a big deal anymore, except at street level - every patrol officer and Public Order Unit officer I've asked has told me that they'll come in the first day, but if Y2K is REALLY bad they'll stay home from the second day to protect their families. Let's see: 5,000 metro police officers for a population of 2 to 2-and-a-half million, on five shifts, with only one-third on duty at one time, minus all of the 'second-day' absentees = how many officers...?

Wheat and water might be the least of your concerns then!

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), November 06, 1999.


Trust me, we in Canada are also getting the mindless mantra of no big problem re Y2K through the press. The general population is just as ignorant and in denial, the same as everyone else in the world.

How do you get 100 Canadians out of a swimming pool? You just say, " Alright, everyone out of the pool!" The chance of civil disorder here is slight, we automatically do what the government tells us.

I have noticed an anger in people about Y2K the past 2 months or so when the subject is brought up. In talking to a psychiatrist I know about it,he said he is noticing a increase in what he calls "core anxiety levels" in people in general, the past few weeks.

-- gary elliott (gelliott@real.on.ca), November 06, 1999.



Mr. Whitely

Nice to know there is someone from Toronto posting here too! Actually I work for the City and the City is working together with the Police, Fire, Ambulance etc. Our police stations have now got emergency generators - delivered just last week if you can believe it! And after a bitter political fight of where to get the money. The Department of Public Works is now Works and Emergency Services now since the amalgamation.

The police have told me me that if the power goes out in Toronto in January for more than a few days there will be many deaths. I quite believe what you are saying about ordinary cops taking care of their families. Perhaps this is why it will be good to have the military nearby. City officials are almost certain the power will stay on. Call your Councillor's office and ask about it. I have found a paralyzing apathy to Y2K everywhere I go. I feel I am either crazy or very insightful. I no longer talk to people about it.

I have been worried about the Pickering Nuclear power plant. Someone who works there told me they are not generating power, but I can't find out is the reactor cooled. Any suggestions?

Let's hope Canadians live up to their reputation for civil obedience and helping each other!

Regards from a fellow citizen.

-- citygirl (citygirl@idirect.com), November 06, 1999.


I wonder if it matters that today is Saturday November 6 not Sunday November 6 as the article is dated.

-- who cares (whocares@cares.com), November 06, 1999.

I drive past the Downsview base regularly. It's primarily an airport (big enough for small jets), recently decommissioned for civilian use-- I think the city is planning to turn it into a skatepark. It's at the north-west end of Toronto, about 8 miles from the waterfront, but it sits almost on top of the busiest stretch of freeway in the country.

5775 Yonge Street is just an office complex, shared w/ Revenue Canada.

-- silver ion (ag3@interlog.com), November 06, 1999.


Citigirl:

I don't know whether the following TORONTO SUN article makes you feel better or not....

Note in the story below: '"It is our opinion Y2K will be merely an event and not an emergency," Dalziel told the police services board.' If you expect 'an emergency' you prepare for an emergency, right? And if you expect 'an event' you prepare for an event....

The police brass also believe that every street level offer is personally prepared for Y2K, based on reports required from their watch commanders. Every officer I've spoken to has said he was never asked by his watch commander about his 'Y2K personal preparation' status [although one POU officer did say that this might refer to a general video on emergncies that they all had to watch a while ago, which wasn't itself Y2K-specific]. The reasoning here is that if the police are prepared, their families will be okay, and the officers will stay on the job. There's a BIG disconnect here, somewhere!

In answer to your question, I was speaking to someone who works at the Pickering nuclear plant yesterday and he told me that if they're forced to 'throttle back' because the grid goes down they can run at low-level 'idle' - sufficient to power the plant itself - until conditions make it possible to resume full generation. He gave no indication that they weren't generating now.

If you see a big orange flash to the east of the city early on January 2nd, 2000, acompanied by an earthquake, a deep rolling boom, and winds of several hundred miles an hour, let me know. I'll know that he's an unreliable source then, and I won't trust him again :)!

Here's the article...

TORONTO SUN, Wednesday, October 20, 1999

Cops brace for Y2K

Millions spent, police board told

By SCOT MAGNISH, CITY HALL BUREAU Toronto Police are hoping for the best but braced for the worst as the city counts down the days to the new millennium, force brass say.

Staff-Insp. Tom Dalziel yesterday said police have spent millions fixing the computer problem some believe will wreak havoc at the stroke of midnight Dec. And with less than three months to go before New Year's Eve, Dalziel said, the force is 99% of the way there.

"It is our opinion Y2K will be merely an event and not an emergency," Dalziel told the police services board.

"I have an extremely high degree of confidence we will be operational in the event of anything we could face."

Dalziel said virtually all of the force's "priority" systems -- including 911 -- are Y2K ready, with the balance due to be finished before Feb. 29, 2000.

He said $300,000 in backup generators will be in place in police stations across the city should the power go out.

He said all leave has been cancelled for members of the force between Dec. 27 and Jan. 9, with extra officers working New Year's Eve.

"We learned a great deal from the ice storm," Dalziel said of last year's disaster in eastern Ontario and western Quebec that left entire regions without power for weeks.

"We feel we are well prepared to handle any emergency -- no matter what it may be."

[ENDS]

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), November 06, 1999.


'I wonder if it matters that today is Saturday November 6 not Sunday November 6 as the article is dated. '

Thanks for the laugh :)!

That's the TORONTO SUN [as in the *newspaper*], not 'Toronto, SUN, 6th Nov.' !

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), November 06, 1999.



ROTFLMAO about the guy who posted about this being Saturday Nov. 6 and not Sunday Nov. 6th as the paper stated. hahahaha

What a dope. Toronto Sun = name of newspaper!! hahahaha hahahaha

-- (dumb@dumber.com), November 06, 1999.


Diane

Toronto is just some name on a map for me out here in Victoria BC :o) Been there but really haven't done that. I do know that TO has been rather proactive in dealing with Y2K investing upwards of 150 million dollars (canadian) to fix their systems. (What about Montreal???)

John and others

Good to hear about something from the "far east". I agree with Gary E. that Canadians aren't being informed much more than the US. But up here alot of the utilities are under the gov. control or authority more than the States. Whether this is reason for compleciency or not I do not know but in my neck of the woods (B.C.) Hydro, BC Tel, BC Gas, and BC Rail have been working together to fix the problem for many years and all have stated togther they are ready (from last spring), BC Hydro has been most forthcoming in their efforts and problems. (see Rick Cowles site).

Mind you we don't have atomic reactors over here either.

There are still alot of real conserns about Canada. Water - waste water, S&MEs, Chemical - Refining plants, municiple governments are on top of my worries, with natural gas as a big maybe.

In many parts of Canada a problem with any heat source is a BIG problem as it doesn't take long to remember it can be deadly to be without it. I sure hope that it turns out for the best because the worst is not being contemplated. Most Canadians don't know how to deal with the cold on a long term basis. Thats why I always say

Keep your liners dry :o)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), November 06, 1999.


Mr. Whitley

Actually the article doesn't make me feel better! One of the reasons is that I know Insp. Dalziel and he told me he was totally misquoted, and actually this reporter got most of it wrong. Dalziel said he was going to lodge a complaint. The police have a Y2K newsletter they send out (forget the name) to their staff and officers and I believe it recommends the Red Cross suggested preparations. I do know that if the power is off for 2 weeks a state of emergency will be declared with the Provincial and then Federal emergency departments being called in.

It gets to be too much doesn't it? Enjoyed the Toronto Sun misunderstanding though. Reminds me of when I was in Scotland and upon seeing a beautiful Cairns terrier I asked his name. The lady responded "Sunday". I commented on what an unusual name that was for a dog and found out she was saying "Sandy" only with a broad Scottish accent!

-- citygirl (citygirl@idirect.com), November 06, 1999.


Well I had a response that was sent but not posted. Oh well.

Nice to hear from the folks back east (I'm in BC), we will hope that things stay together out there. I am sure the Ice Storm was a wake up call for eastern folks, although Canadians aren't getting much of a different message than the US folk.

Good luck

-- Brian (imager@home.com), November 06, 1999.


Citygirl:

I'm glad to hear your comments on Inspector Dalziel's reaction when that TORONTO SUN article was published.

I had two phone conversations with him, one quite lengthy, a few months ago and sent him some y2k-related background material. He struck me as being very solid, level-headed, and well-informed, so you can imagine my own surprise [not to say disappointment!] when I saw the comments attributed to him in that report. I'm glad to learn from you of its inaccuracy, and he's restored to my personal five- star rating gallery in consequence :).

That 'two week' period you mentioned has another significance, too, which you probably don't need me to elaborate on [and on which I wouldn't, by the way, since it would involve a breach of confidence not unconnected with this topic - so I'll leave it to your deductive powers!].

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), November 06, 1999.



Mr. Whitley

I have to be honest and admit I'm not entirely sure what you mean by your comment about the two weeks. I sense it is sinister and would not want you to break a confidence, but it makes me a bit nervous.

Tom Dalziel IS all that you say and he's doing his best while surrounded by politics. His is a very stressful job.

Regards to you. I'll watch for your posts.

-- citygirl (citygirl@idirect.com), November 06, 1999.


Brian:

Thanks for your comments from beautiful, rainy B.C....:)

As I recollect, one of your locally-owned supermarket chains was pretty proactive itself in warning Vancouver residents to stock up on food NOW for Y2K. The first time I'd seen that kind of warning anywhere in Canada, from any organization in the food industry, and done in a very calm and responsible fashion as well. So Vancouver leads Toronto in that!

You're no doubt aware of the fact that one of the utilities in your neighbouring province of Alberta [TransAlta Corp] was discovered by the EDMONTON SUN to be quietly buying hugh amounts of palletted food because it had had 250 remote switching stations and employees on emergency duty on New Year's eve and after. The story, datelined 29th September and headlined 'ELECTRIC COMPANY GROCERY SPREE FOOD FOR THOUGHT', led with: 'Alberta's major power supplier is stockpiling huge pallets of groceries and other emergency items should Y2K bugs turn out the lights, The SUN has learned...' Comforting, right? Especially since Alberta is intimately tied into BC on the electrical grid, and since they were short enough of power under NORMAL circumstances this past summer that they reportedly had to buy sufficient extra current from their two neighbouring provinces to avoid blackouts!

I'm not sure how your part of the grid is connected, but I was horrified to learn recently that the western portion of the continental grid in the U.S. also includes parts of Mexico. Is Mexico on the top 10 list for full remediation...:)?

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), November 06, 1999.


John

Yes life is wet on the coast. The supermarket chain is Thrifty Foods on Vancouver Island. I live just outside of Victoria. Thrifty Foods and the largest Credit Union on the Island have been very active in the local awareness of Y2K. The Provincial Government has also been very active. They have extra warehouse space, surveyed folks to see what they are stocking up on and have encouraged buying before the Xmas season. Very comforting on my part to know the community has such excellent business awareness.

The grid system depends mostly on interruptable service so BC hydro has only one noniterruptable responcibility besides the amount of power we export is only 7% of production. So what ever will happen elsewhere shouldn't have a serious impact as they will be ready for it (I hope :o) The Alberta Trans Alta normally buys food for the isolated areas for the winter. They were just stocking up the larder. I have always been more concerned about the refineries and chemical plants in Alberta than the power supply although they are having problems on a regular basis over there because of growth.

I have my doubts about Vancouver sometimes but my brother lives over there and is a GI but still feels like he is going to tough it out in the big city. My area is still pretty rural with wilderness a short walk away. Can't understand the big city folk.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), November 07, 1999.


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