Outhouses - how far out is out?

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We are planning to dig a pit for an outhouse but are unsure of the location. We basically live on top of a gravel aquifer with one shallow well in our basement, one to the south about 70 feet and one south west about 200 feet. We have a grove of cottonwood trees about 150 feet to the west north west. That is where we were thinking of putting the outhouse. We are on a fairly level stretch of about 20 acres with the house in the north east portion, about 200 feet from the north edge of the property and about 80 feet from the east edge. The prevailing winds are from the northwest but to put the outhouse on the south east is to set it out in plain sight on our lawn. Any ideas?

-- Steve A (albrecht@ndak.net), November 05, 1999

Answers

Are you on septic or sewer?

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), November 05, 1999.

I'll have some info in a future WRP. The last WRP members mailing for 1999 will include a book on sanitation, outhouses, etc. I'll extract some of the info for the WRP that goes onto the web.

I'm finishing up the LED mailing this week. You know how this goes.

-- cory (kiyoinc@ibm.XOUT.net), November 05, 1999.


I can't offer an answer, only a memory:

It's too far in the winter!

I was born in western PA country, 1952. Had an uncle that lived on a farm, with one. Nothing fancy, just a wood box, with a bench and a hole in it. Outside, as in no heat. I hated visiting them in winter.

Here's another memory. My grandfather put a speaker under the bench, waited for my grandmother to go in, and said something like "lady, can you use the other seat, we're working down here." <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), November 05, 1999.


Do you live in a cold climate? Walking to the out house in winter I would not want to walk vary far.

-- Mr. Pinochle (pinochledd@aol.com), November 05, 1999.

Get a book or search the web. Or wait for Cory's WRP.
The wind direction is immaterial. We're not talking "House Beautiful" here. A little lime or even dirt from time to time will eliminate/reduce odor. What's important is not contaminating your well source(s).

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 05, 1999.


IF it's cold, either walk to where it is PROPERLY located, or keep a piss jug handy. Women can use a funnel. :-) To reduce trips.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 05, 1999.

Forgot to mention our sewer arrangements. We have a septic tank that drains liquids only out of the septic tank into a liquids tank. When the liquids tank is full, a pump pumps the liquids 300 feet NNE through a plastic pipe where it then comes up the pipe and is discharged into the grove of trees. Makes em grow great!

-- Steve A (albrecht@ndak.net), November 05, 1999.

Am I the only one around here that remembers the "Thunder Mug" kept under the bed to handle night time emergencies and winter weather? A few years ago they were in demand in antique stores for punch bowls!

-- Lumber Jack (johnsellis@webtv.net), November 05, 1999.

How 'bout "Thunder Buckets"? Galvanized bucket kept in the corner for nighttime use. I don't think they will ever become collector items, especially as punch bowls!

-- Sam Mcgee (weissacre@gwtc.net), November 06, 1999.

I was born in '53 and remember a "pee pot" conveniently placed under the foot of the bed. Recommend a rounded-edge pot and a lid. Empty first thing in the morn. Also remember the outhouse. Thought I would fall through the hole for sure.

Husband has relatives with summer houses in remote Norway. Their outhouses have three holes varying in sizes and shelves for books. What luxury...they are always practical with a flair. M

-- Meandu (Meandu@not.home), November 06, 1999.



No matter where you locate it it will be at the "too" distance.

Too far in the winter. Too close in the summer.

But it sure beats squatting behind a tree.

-Greybear, who has actually used one in both +115F and -43F. (One among many reasons to live in warm country.)

-- Get TP.

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), November 06, 1999.


We called them "Slop Jars" was an enamel bucket with a lid....

In Florida where I grew up the county ordinance said your septic tanks drain field had to be at least 50 feet from your well. Ours was more like a 100' we never had any problems I'm aware of.

-- Patriot106 (Patriot106@Juno.com), November 06, 1999.


Grey bear- bet ya on the low side, -60. froze on the way down into the hole. Kinda hilarious.

(Hadda be there, but business gets taken care of FAST!!)

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), November 06, 1999.


My grandparents were "wealthy." They had a "three-holer" outhouse. Two adult size and height and one kid size opening a little lower. After all these years I still remember that, but I don't recall all three holes in use at once.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 06, 1999.

Like Sysman, I to was born in PA. in 52. I have used them many a time. In fact I still have one in the back yard. It is about 30' from the house in the direction of the prevailing wind. It is also down grade BELOW the water supply. It worked here, should work for you.

PS-- Don't use it anymore, but it does have lids that seal over the holes. You may want to buy some of that enzyme stuff for septic tanks to use with it. It eats up the SOLID waste so it fills up slower.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), November 06, 1999.



Current regs in our area of Florida say that well must be 75 ft from septic system. So I would assume your outhouse would have to be that far from well. If you live in cold/hot country, get in lots of lime for the summer months. Also, if digging is easy, shovel some dirt in on top of it every week. It will fill it up sooner, but keeps the oder down. Plant a tree over it when you move the outhouse and standback!!

Taz

-- Taz (Taz@aol.com), November 06, 1999.


the hard plastic Nalgene bottles are good for night use, have a keeper strap for the top, don't leak, don't smell, never break.

As to outhouses, in Alaska for warmth seats are made of styrofoam, but have to be replaced if soiled. The only really warm seat.

Get the Humanure Book!

-- seraphima (seraphima@aol.com), November 06, 1999.


Warming up to our expertise here ;^)

It's the 90s! Women, there's something better than funnels. Try this comfy practical female urinal:

[ Can't find any pictures on the Web, but here's the info: ]

Kendall-Futuro, makers,
Division of The Kendall Company
Cincinnati, Ohio 45150
1994
Female Urinal, Futuro 264600

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000kcc
The Cost of Winter Camping, Great Winter Gear

Buy a Doggie Doolie, extra enzymes, dig your hole now. Use a commode with bucket 'n lid indoors (keep bottom filled 2" with soapy natural biodegradable water). Buy an empty spray spritz bottle, squirt on inside sides after emptying. Empty when safe, convenient.

Stock up on TP & Wet Wipes ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 06, 1999.


Just do what the bears do - long but might be worth it...

Dave Russell

Citizens for Constitutional Property Rights, Inc. Crestview, Florida ccprprez@cfi.net http://www.ccpr-fl.net/

This was an actual letter from and a reply to the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, State of Michigan:

Mr. Ryan De Vries 2088 Dagget Pierson MI 49339

Dear Mr. DeVries:

SUBJECT: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023-1 T11N, R10W, Sec. 20, Montcalm County

It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Quality that there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above-referenced parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity: Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outlet stream of Spring Pond. A permit must be issued prior to the start of this type of activity. A review of the Department's files shows that no permits have been issued.

Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, annotated.

The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams partially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris and flooding at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted.

The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all unauthorized activities at this location, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush forming the dams from the stream channel. All restoration work shall be completed no later than January 31,1998.

Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff. Failure to comply with this request or any further unauthorized activity on the site may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcement action.

We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter. Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.

Sincerely,

David L. Price, District Representative Land and Water Management Division

-----

THE RESPONSE...

Dear Mr. Price:

Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N, R10W, Sec 20; Montcalm County

Your certified letter dated 12/17/97 has been handed to me to respond to. You sent out a great deal of carbon copies to a lot of people, but you neglected to include their addresses. You will, therefore, have to send them a copy of my response.

First of all, Mr. Ryan De Vries is not the legal landowner and/or contractor at 2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan -- I am the legal owner and a couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet stream of my Spring Pond. While I did not pay for, authorize, nor supervised their dam project, I think they would be highly offended that you call their skillful use of natural building materials "debris." I would like to challenge your department to attempt to emulate their dam project any time and/or any place you choose. I believe I can safely state there is no way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic.

As to your request, I do not think the beavers are aware that they first must fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of dam activity.

My first dam question to you is: (1) are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers or (2) do you require all beavers throughout this State to conform to said dam request? If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, through the Freedom of Information Act I request completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits that have been issued. Perhaps we will see if there really is a dam violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, annotated.

I have several concerns. My first concern is -- aren't the beavers entitled to legal representation? The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute and are unable to pay for said representation -- so the State will have to provide them with a dam lawyer. The Department's dam concern that either one or both of the dams failed during a recent rain event causing flooding is proof that this is a natural occurrence which the department is required to protect. In other words, we should leave the Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harassing them and calling their dam names.

If you want the stream "restored" to a dam free-flow condition -- please contact the beavers -- but if you are going to arrest them (they obviously did not pay any attention to your dam letter -- being unable to read English) -- be sure they are read the Miranda rights first. As for me, I am not going to cause more flooding or dam debris jams by interfering with these dam builders. If you want to hurt these dam beavers -- be aware I am sending a copy of your dam letter and this response to PETA. If your dam Department seriously finds all dams of this nature inherently hazardous and truly will not permit their existence in this State -- I seriously hope you are not selectively enforcing this dam policy -- or once again both I and the Spring Pond Beavers will scream prejudice!

In my humble opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have a right to build their unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue,the grass is green and water flows downstream. They have more dam right than I do to live and enjoy Spring Pond. If the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Protection lives to its name, it should protect the natural resources (Beavers) and the environment (Beavers' Dams).

So, as far as the beavers and I are concerned, this dam case can be referred for more elevated enforcement action right now. Why wait until 1/31/98? The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then and there will be no way for you or your dam staff to contact/harass them then.

In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention a real environmental quality (health) problem in the area. It is the bears. Bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe you should be persecuting the defecating bears and leave the beavers alone. If you are going to investigate the beaver dam, watch your step! (The bears are not careful where they dump!)

Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable to contact you on your dam answering machine, I am sending this response to your dam office via another government organization -- the dam USPS. Maybe, someday, it will get there.

Sincerely, Stephen L. Tvedten



-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 06, 1999.


LOL! LOLROTFLOATWP !!!!! Thanks, Andy, you made our weekend! LOL !!!!!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 06, 1999.

Thats a keeper Andy

ROTFLTIWMP

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), November 06, 1999.


Here in NC we used to say 100 yards- in the winter, 100 yards too far, in the summer, 100 yards too close.

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), November 06, 1999.

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