Is there a transcript available of yesterday's chat at #Lumen-Foods on DALNET...????

I was looking forward to reading it this morning but their is not one post about it. Or did I miss it...?

-- STFrancis (STFrancis@heaven.com), November 03, 1999

Answers

STFrancis, read over on csy2k that the site was overwhelmed by pollys last night, taking over all the lines and posting filler over and over. If you use "hacked" in a search of subject line you should find the original post. btw, too bad it happened as the Oil Chat discussion was in its 3rd day.

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), November 03, 1999.

Yes, never fear, we will have a transcript up on soybean.com
That usually takes a few days for Ryker to clean it up and post it.

Those chats are great!

Have fun reading past archives ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), November 03, 1999.

Yes, I was in the chat room and kept copying and pasting the conversation into a text document. There was a lot of chit chat and interuptions. I am pasting below a edited summary of questions to DD and her responses. -- JoseMiami

gadget- i may have been mistaken that it was in the Q10 thought it was, do remember reading it but they said 'fix-on'failure" in q10 sorry DD I would like to talk to you about being on my program Y2K news radio John Anderson know i read about 32? from one of them, as well as theDOD contingencies, thoought it intriguing in that my figures come up about the same Gad - and some is 'usable' right from the ground, as i understand it STEVE, not really that i can see, the whole industry is so lousy in problems that even in best case i cant see how we could not have major production/distribution problems from the production end If what DD says is even remotely accurate, you are talking about moving the Yourdon timeline up to late January. DD, where DO your figures come from? But good point, I read that as first failures due to the gas shortage, not first failures period... Greg, so theoretically we all have time INTO the month of January to continue getting ready. Is this right? RON from several years of gthering what hard imperical data and figures i can, not much easier for me than for many though. Greg - you made an interesting pt a few weeks ago that I believe bears discussing. Namely, the fact that people will one day wake up and realize, not just that they are in for severe hardship, but that the gov't has deliberately, consistentkly, and over a long duration of time LIED to them! It is an explosive combination. Forget the urban jungles, the yuppies will be doing the burning! there are more than i in my business saying these things, have seen them all through the year etc. RON - i agree this whole affair has my head spinning, thinking that it is a reaction to such dirth of hard info, that when we get any little bit we chew it to death LOL

RonM :: Actually, I did some exploring, and it appears that DD's points are not new. For some reason, people had not been paying attention. Myself included. Others have made these points. When I spoke to my 'Treasury friend' we agreed that any one of *hundreds* of things, by failing, could/would 'doom' us. He expects a depression that will make 30's look like good times. Yes, really. DD when did you first suspect that the oil industry would not be ready and there would be big problems? when congressional hearings held in our town only one etity was (complianT) had been working 7 years to get ready all others "y2k ok or readY"=fix on fail Greg, could you please tell us about your meeting with her? i think that would be fresh information of value to all. well, was not new on y2knews.com have been there since just about the beginning of it when i found it please add some personal perspective to add to the web stuff LOL DEan - maybe People forget the 'domino effect' - things that might otherwise be easy to fix become impossible to fix w/o manpower, parts being available, etc... It will be a crazy environment. Tyme > specifically? when i saw no major work starting by about 5 years ago and starting sweating big time when still not major push 3 years ago etc. well, what exactly is her work, what does she do for these companies? to answer question before, i am an independent consultant in the oil/gas industry DD, do you think anyone from the industry will figure out who you are and seek revenge? Rodig maybe so, but you know $ is not worth some things and one of them is the truth DD, your opinions are more detailed than any I've heard so far. If accurate, they give substance to a ghost we all fear. That is why I'm here, and others too I think. To get an impression of HOW accurate. Again, pardon my bluntness <|Scribe|> DD, what I'm thinking, and told you last night same thing, is that IF this info can be verified by other and gotten out to even those who are prepping now, MAYBE it'd encourage them to increase their supplies? exactly Scribe we (my family) have been giving this much thought all day, this thing of 'coming out' there are so many aspects to look at etc. we simply cannot yet decide upon our course of action Steve- it does seem kind of like some really strange pwycadelic movie doesnt it? DD your post changed my outlook from the Yourdon Year of Disruptions, Decade of Depression. <|Scribe|> I agree DD, it's feels strange... knowing the wrold as we know it will may end in another 59 days... If oil production goes to 30%, nations will use their reserves to fight over the remaining capacity. It wont just be "decade of depression", it will be 2nd dark age for those preparing for y2k, The world as we knew it ended the day they started to prepare YES ROCKY!! Rocky, so true!!! but my hope meter seems to be broke here lately LOL Seems Infromatic's analysis was right....heaven help us. if she is right you really want to rethink how you have planned to ride this out let's hope, skeeter for example Rocky....... Yes, the carrying capacity is going to fall off a cliff If she's right, people buying generators are just prolonging the inevitable. just another form of denial I'm reminded of pareto's law... 20/80 ..... that's the one that scares me too. many of us have planned to ride it out more or less as individuals with our stash right.....? it sort of goes along with what you said, skeeter. that will not be possible in most cases true RockyH, I think the prudent plan is to ride it out as individuals, and rebuild as communities what alternative? I tend to agree more and more on the generator, I might as well paint a target on the house i am one of those people who when i look at a problem etc. I automatically look back down the line etc. so was/is normal for me to think electricity? next fuel? etc. DD - here's a big question for you. Can America recover from this, ever? Or, as infamous infomagic postulated, will it be a devolutionary spiral? must have hit a nerve....who whould of thought MIB had pimples. i went into my y2knews chat last night and got input from the people i have long known in this on the appropriateness of giving interviews etc. we are very torn about this, anyone have any input please Steve, I don't think anybody can answer that Steve that is only opinion of course, but if is 1/3 as bad as i think, will be totally different yes Hylands, I think about it, my answer is "maybe". But I was just interested in DD's take Steve that is only opinion of course, but if is 1/3 as bad as i think, will be totally different yes Hylands, I think about it, my answer is "maybe". But I was just interested in DD's take *** Alaska00 (~java@gilligan178.pci1.cos.pcisys.net) has joined #lumenfoods There would have been an America if there had not been a Paul Revere yes i saw you post is what reminded me of it thank you i will consider it carefully DD: do you think it is possible that they could repair or work around the y2k problems in the oil industry in 6 or 9 months??? Jose, if it takes more than a couple months, they won't fix it in our lifetime gravity and a little glycol in the 'P' traps :) We're all a bunch of Cassandras r u serious??? Jose, if all goes well with people and an al out effort is made etc. maybe so, but i see that as remote, but can still hope America will never recover from this. It's all over, folks. Been fun while it lasted. Anyone thinking of leaving the country? Absolutely serious, if a collapse happens, most people (including the ones that fix things) will be dead remote because of cascading problems in other sectors, i suppose? hard to make that "all out" effort when your kids are starving Steve--lets see, northern minnesota for a month and you want -40...hey boy you are goonna get -40 whether you want it or not Steve, i'd think up here, at least the way the chatter goes, is many will head north, most of us are prepared for cold, and have cabbins etc...i mean alot will go S, yes, but the "real" MNans won't i don't think

SteveRoberts: where would you go? yep and the reactions of people to the shocks etc. I think what we're missing is that there will be about 30% supply. That's not much -- but I'd also bet that the first priority would be to get more refining capacity on line. stream South???? They won't be able to for over congested hiways.......remember Fla.'s last hurricane? I was in it. Dean, that kind of oil problem for more than a few weeks will kill the economy deader than a doornail I'ld go to Ireland we feel that 1st priority will be electricity, for water is dependent upon it (not electricity for tv etc. LOL) then to be able to produce more etc. yes alwyn is happy six blocks from the beach Yup, the economy will tank. But still, fixing oil's problems will be #1 priority.

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), November 03, 1999.

Since this is a critical [and much-criticized :)] statistic, here's the source for that '30 per cent of U.S. refinery capability after Y2K' quote, which is now frequently being disputed [these messages were originally posted late in the "OIL CHAT" thread, and are reproduced here - with additional source references - for those interested readers who probably missed them there]:

"I understand that the commercial fuel industry is facing a Y2K challenge in their refinery operations. Some reports state that only 30% of their refineries will be renovated by January 1, 2000." - from a question and answer exchange between, among others, Senator Strom Thurmond and a Dr. Harris, of the Pentagon, at a meeting of the U.S. Congressional Supplier Capability Working group. [minutes now taken off-line. Quoted by the 'New World Order Intelligence Update' - which I edit - directly from my own reading of those minutes; and first published in our 'Y2K Weekly Alert', December 14th, 1998]

You can see this, together with a mass of other Y2K quotes [including the elusive Chevron SEC statements], on the 'New World Order Intelligence Update' web site at

http://www.inforamp.net/~jwhitley/Y2KQUOTE.HTM

-- John K. Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), November 01, 1999. ___________________________

Here's the complete quote from those minutes:

COMMENT: I understand that the commercial fuel industry is facing a Y2K challenge in their refinery operations. Some reports state that only 30% of their refineries will be renovated by January 1 ,2000. QUESTION: Has the Department [of Defence] looked at the potential impact upon its operations if 70% of the U.S. refinery operations are shut down? QUESTION: How long will the Department's supply of fuel last if deliveries are suspended? COMMENT: Over the past several years the DoD has expanded its reliance upon "direct vendor delivery" and "just in time Logistics." This has allowed the Department to save money by reducing the inventory levels that must be stored and maintained. However, this has made the Department more susceptible to disruptions in commercial deliveries. QUESTION: Has the DoD fully explored the impact on our military capability if the private sector contractors are not able to supply the Department because of a Y2K-related failure in their production and transportation systems...?

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), November 01, 1999. __________________________

I've now [miraculously!] found the original DoD Y2K briefing.

Its been rearchived at

http://www.c3i.osd.mil/doc/

Go to the third item down:

* 'DoD Y2K Briefing, 9 September 1998 (archived .zip file)'

[This is a a lengthy download, since it's a zipped slide briefing]

You need slide 43 - "Supplier Capability Working Group".

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), November 04, 1999.