Yesterday my stepson (21 yrs old) hoped out loud that Y2K wouldn't be bad. I was silent, because Ive come to the conclusion that a devastating Y2K might be best for us. Not that I want anyone to suffer --absolutely not, nor do I advocate the use of violence-- but already, without Y2K, we as a nation are suffering, and this unhappiness, this misery, has not been, and will not be, addressed by our "government" or the corporations that control it.

The suffering of the American people --and doesn't that sound odd in this time of unparalleled "prosperity" and soaring stock market-- will be one thing that contributes to the devastating effect of Y2K, and to the growth of organized crime and a fascist power structure. I've made this point in my essay on "Organized Crime & Y2K" (on my website: http://www.homestead.com/buttecounty2k).

I think it was Kissinger who said that in politics nothing happens by chance. I recently read the "Shadow of the Swastika" (the link is on website,) and was stunned to read how many wealthy Americans had supported the Nazi cause. This is all documented. The author didn't make it up.

I knew from previous research about "Project Paperclip" how Nazi scientists were recruited for our rocket/space program, and how the CIA used Reinhard Gehlen, the Nazi spymaster, and his spy apparatus, but much of the info in "Swastika" was new to me. Except for Henry Ford's enthusiasm for, and support of, Hitler.

Ive been a "student" of JFK's assassination since the mid-70s and know how and why the Warren Report does not hold up. Allan Dulles, CIA director, sat on the Warren Commission, and, according to the "Swastika" article, Dulles was a Nazi sympathizer/collaborator.

Is it all true? I think so. Some of the details may not be quite right, or missing, but, to state the obvious (and appear, simultaneously, naove and cynical) we common citizens- have lost our country. Powerful men, with tons of money, manipulate our economy, our political process, and our understanding of events.Yet most people will not tolerate talk of "conspiracy." They are like the people Ive talked to who are certain that Y2K will be no big deal, even though they have read nothing about the subject. Their uneducated opinion is a whistling past the graveyard.

The elite who control the wealth of the nations will do what they feel is necessary to maintain their wealth and power. It seems certain that a "terrorist" attack will hit one (or more) of our cities; the FBI has been saying as much for a number of months now. As far as I know, the "terrorist" may be linked to our own government, just as the "lone nut" Oswald had ties to the American Intelligence community. To the masters, life is cheap, very cheap, especially the lives of those with dark skins. (Read "The Panamerican Deception," on my website.)

We've lost our country. We live in a sham democracy. Y2K could bring about the overt, unmistakable signs of our loss. On the other hand, Kissinger's statement is a prime example of hubris, pride. Who can predict the future, the outcome of Y2K, or the turns of chance and the ways of God?

Our only hope might be that Y2K is disruptive in ways that Hank the K. and his crew cant foresee: y2quakes that shake down the global power structures. I would hope that our federal structure, as it is now, withers; not to disappear, necessarily, but to be transformed into something smaller, something that looks more like a service organization.

What else will bring the end of the Nixons, the Clintons, the Bushes, the money-driven corruptions and the misuse of power? Campaign finance reform? My hope is that Y2K is a great crisis, our life-changing "near-death experience," that helps us to reclaim our liberties and makes clear our relationship with the Sacred.

I would hope that we citizens find strength in our ability to connect with our neighbors, our communities; that we learn to participate in local/regional governments that truly express and serves the needs of citizens.

If Y2K is a bumpy road in a winter storm, then I fear that the majority of us will soon be living impoverished and, perhaps, terrorized lives, in an American third-world, at the mercy of the exploiters.

Far-fetched? So is Y2K, eh? Hope for the worst, pray for the best.

-- JohnO (jobriy2k@yahoo.com), November 03, 1999

Answers

Yeah, unfortunatly I agree. Twenty years ago when I realized they own everything worth owning, it seemed that the war to fought with them would have to be a "spiritual" war, rather than physical. Don't really have in mind what that would exactly consist of though. There was a fantastic article in the WSJ on July 4th, 1997, that very much addresses this issue. I wish all could see it but to link you have to be registered.

It's late.

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), November 03, 1999.

Yeah, unfortunately I agree. Twenty years ago when I realized they own everything worth owning, it seemed that the war to be fought with them would have to be a "spiritual" war, rather than physical. Don't really have in mind what that would exactly consist of though. There was a fantastic article in the WSJ on July 4th, 1997, that very much addresses this issue. I wish all could see it but to link you have to be registered.

It's late. (sorry about the misspelling -later than I thought.)

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), November 03, 1999.

Two things,

1) That statement you attribute to Kissinger is usually attributed to FDR.

2) Campaign Finance reform will not help. As long as there is power to be won, and largesse to be distributed, there will be coruption of the men and machinery of state. The only solution is to remove that power, and not allow it to come back.

That means we need a different form of government. The original US Constitution was flawed from the beginning. Hamiltion, Jay, and Madison (aka "Federalists") coerced a convention, and helped ram it through while Jefferson was "ambassador" in Paris.

When Jefferson came back, he was appalled about the hijacked revolution. He would never endorse the Constitution until the Bill of Rights was enumerated - ergo the first 10 amendments.

The first real test of our federal government was the Whiskey Rebellion. When Washington forced the matter, he abrogated the Constitution, and shot the Revolution in the head.

What we need now, is *no* federalism; our country ONLY based on the Bill of Rights. Nothing more is necessary. Can you imagine that? I can.

Unfortunately, I don't believe it'll happen.

Jolly reads too much.

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), November 03, 1999.

J & J: Yep. Unless we have a Y2K "9 or "10", within just a couple of years the average American will realize, as well as us already realize, that we are just niggers (regardless of race) on the federal plantation.

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 03, 1999.

You guys 'hoping' for a 9 or 10 really are crazies. Do you honestly believe that if it gets that bad - and many deaths would be an inevitable result - that 'something better' will miraculously evolve from the ashes? Draconian martial law, imposed ruthlessly, would be a 'good' result in that scenario. It would last a long time, maybe a decade or two. Is that what you want for your kids? Like I said, you really are total, complete whackos.

-- Asking (Asking@a question.com), November 03, 1999.

Look, you've got choice--if you're discontented, vote for George W., rather than Gore: it's YOUR decision.

-- Spidey (in@jam.triangulation), November 03, 1999.

...ah, yes. Just who we want to lead the country, a rich, coke snorter with not a whit of an idea. Perfect...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 03, 1999.

Are you kidding? You must be! There is no essential difference between Bush and Gore. They're just two of similar dogs fighting over the same bone.

-- cody (cody@y2ksurvive.com), November 03, 1999.

You BC lovers are sooooo funny. I don't like Bush but as to his alleged coke snorting habit (which I find very possible, by the way), why haven't you also mentioned that BC is an accused rapist? Are you fine with accused rapists but not fine with accused coke snorters? What a hoot. Talk about selectively looking at issues. But low IQ's have a tendency to make people that way, no Y2k Pro?

-- laughing (laughing@laughing.com), November 03, 1999.

It's Amazing, I actually agree with Ashton and Leska.

You guys are f****** UP MAN!!!

-- (troll@number.1003445), November 03, 1999.

Hee, hee. Pathetic Tinfoils always try to cloud every issue with "well what about Clinton, huh, huh!" I despise Clinton, never voted for him, think he is an ammoral creature of the worst sort. Kinda like that lying sack of excrement named Bush...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), November 03, 1999.

Asking- Apparently you misread the first two posts. I for one, don't "wish" this to be a 10. But in light of all the ominous activity appearing to culminate in the very near future (1-2 yrs?), and the level of the general publics' unawareness and unwillingness to actively take back their rights and true place as citizens, then one of the only "bright" spots that we can hope for, if Y2K is a 10, is the "resurrection" or resurgence of our civil liberties, as the powers that be fold.

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), November 03, 1999.

Yeah, some of these posts make me think of the comment by Gary North on presidential candidates. He said:"John McCain(sp?)exudes leadership. George W. Bush merely exudes."(chuckle. gotta love it)

But I'm afraid I've gotten suspicious of ANY man.What we need is a Theocracy, with God Himself in charge.

Are there ANY leaders John, that you know of, that really care about the people? I see the current crop, and all I can hear in my mind is that Bible verse about the "wicked, worthless shepherds."

The only(decent) one that I can think of is Alan Keyes, and I haven't even heard him lately - but he's been so strong in the past, I think he Must be incorruptible.

But I don't know. I don't trust ANY politician anymore. And we don't need them anyway. Just like we don't need "Hollywood", and we don't need the Mafia.

-- doorbaby (templeofmyGod@heaven.com), November 03, 1999.

Yes, I think the FBI have created a setup for "terrorist" attack--or, ordinary Y2K mishaps that can be blamed elsehere for "security" reasons. Also, it's obvious that the country is controlled by money interests rather than the citizens, more so now than ever with the ability to control ever tighter. However, yes, the revolution has to be a spiritual one. We're all dogs snarling over bones unless we see something higher over all. Dems versus Repubs is not the issue whatsoever...

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 03, 1999.

Dimwit Pro?

What do you know about my Y2k beliefs? Absolutely jack, right? I thought so. Pretty stupid to assume everyone on this board is a tinfoil, no? But I agree with you on Bush and Clinton. They could be brothers, as far as I'm concerned.

-- haha (haha@haha.com), November 03, 1999.

Tumdedumdum...hmmm, let's see who fell into my web today...oh my, it's Y2KPro! What other choices can I tell you about, sir? Burger King vs. McDonald's? Aborted fetus vs. smiling baby? Form 1040 vs. Leavenworth? Thinsulate vs. wool? Coral vs. taupe? Corian vs. granite? Dung-covered 'art' vs. non-dung art? These are YOUR choices, Pro: have fun, now, and run along.

-- Spidey (in@jam.partisan), November 03, 1999.

Back to the original point of this thread.

Yes in the politcal sense of the issue, Y2K would be best if it was a 4 or an 8, but not something in the middle. A 9 is self-explanatory.

Things might be rough for a while but enough people with knowledge and ideals of the original intent of the founding fathers will make it through and should be able to restart the country down the proper path. And they damn sure will have plenty of material for several books on what not ever to do again with this nation's governance.

A 4 would cause enough economic hurt that there would be a political backlash at the polls. That backlash should be enough to clean-out the current crop of political leaders who are so entrenched at the trough of political power and money.

Now somebody replied that they saw a high-end Y2K being the ground of unending, draconian martial law. Actually that's in the middle ground, where there's still some semi-functioning form of national government attempting to cling to power. That's where the worst fears of most people would be realized and would last longest.

In a high-range event there might be a short period where a desperate fedgov.org does some odious things, but it will be limited in duration before being overwhelmed by the event. In a mid-range event the government can exert power for as long as it can maintain itself, by force in most probability.

So in a political nutshell, Y2K does need to be all or nothing.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), November 03, 1999.

---yes, i hope it goes down, all the way, and yes, i have always felt that it would, too, based on the evidence and simple probability odds. --our governments(all of them, fed, state, local) are corrupt beyond redemption. the honest politician is very rare indeed. i would imagine that the percentage of blackmailed and bribed politicians is about 90% or higher, especially if they have been in office beyond one term. --it doesn't matter, y2k IS a big deal, there IS a batch of various big globalists duking it out now for world control, and they consider all of us peons as expendable. the great cull is coming, and those bozo, clueless "agents" of the state are all poised to "just follow orders" for whichever idiot is their "superior officer". civ or mil it doesn't matter, they all got guns, and they all will protect the clueless and corrupt political bosses at everyone else's expense. golly gee, it's thier job1 Jiss followink orderz! --If you are smart and prepared, be also prepared to defend your freedoms--and you won't have to go look for it, the king's henchmen will look for you. they don't have anything else to do.....goose step, goose step..CYA at all costs! got to preserve my government pension and my career! goose step, goose step....gonna take down some of them survivalist wackos...goose step,goose step---they're perps, and by golly, some of em got guns, so we got to "take them down"...goose step, goose step....... big biz and big gov bozos, byte me.......

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), November 03, 1999.

All human societies rise and fall.Corporate American society is diseased and will eventualy die. If y2k has the potential to eauthanize this sick beast then so much the better.Try to view what will be good for humanity with more of a historical perspective instead of whining about our babies.Perhaps if y2k brings teotwawki humanity will move towards a true democracy instead of the plutocratic state we live in now.millions of deaths is not too high or a price to pay.Our children's lives are not too high a price to pay.No price is too high.

-- hopeful doomer (hope @d.oom), November 05, 1999.