I've only posted once, been lurking since August of this year. My question is...Most of us only get to come here on our lunch hour and after work to find out what we consider valuable information regarding Y2K preps and news. Last night and today the forum has been littered with people who seem only to want to disrupt this process. If you don't believe Y2K is going to be a "big deal" why are you at this forum wasting your time and everyone else's?

-- tory (tory@hotmail.com), October 29, 1999

Answers

Why do birds sing? Why do dogs crap on your freshly mown lawn? Because that's what's in them. It's like the swansong of a flock of assholes: "What I do is me, for that I came!" *fart* *fart*

-- SH (squirrel@hunter.com), October 29, 1999.

How elequently put, SH.

Now, here is my take on it:

I don't believe it is going to be a big deal, UNLESS, people are misinformed about the potential for disruptions. This silly Y2K movie will no doubt add fuel the fires of many people who just don't know better. Someone said that there is only 60 or so days left so the damge that can occur is minimal. Not so. It only takes one poor soul to overspend him or herself because they were scared of Y2K. Or do something dumb like shooting at stangers on New Years Day because they think they are after their "loot".

That might not mean much to you or anyone else but I for one would love it it I was being duped and someone was kind enough to stop it, and especially so if I might hurt myself or others in doing so.

And to clarify, I do not, nor have I ever, said preparing was dumb, stupid, assinine, idiotic, or whatever. I did once say that people who are stockpiling guns and ammo because they jump at shadows (da gubmint shadows in particular) are to be handled with kid gloves. These are the people (no it's not YOU), that very much would like to see Y2K wreak havok. Think of all the jaded people out there looking to avenge themselves against the big bad world that made them cry and hurt their feelings.

Yes, those people are to be singled out, locked up, and put away. A waste of time? I don't think you really believe that.

-- Howdy (_@_._@_._@), October 29, 1999.

Tell us more, Troll. Tell us what you want.

Please amplify. Where will you be on Y2K? If you are a Canadian Troll, will you cash-out your accounts by December 8 (about 40 days from now -- but only 28 or less banking days? Or will you use Trollvellers checques? If you are a Yankee Troll are they limiting withdrawals at Troll-ATMs yet? It's $100 /day at some local ones. You can have as much as you want of the money with the magnetic locator strips on them however. Planes are maybe NOT falling from the sky -- though some have -- but fireballs are, and more are rumored. What are the other trolls doing to prepare?

Speak Troll! because the dawn is coming and the light will turn you to stone.

-- SH (squirrel@hunter.com), October 29, 1999.

"Yes, those people are to be singled out, locked up, and put away. A waste of time? I don't think you really believe that. "

This kind of mindset is scary,it is people like this guy who are the REAL threat

-- loki (whatever@works.yea), October 29, 1999.

I'm pretty disgusted with troll-a-mania myself. I think the polly/trolls are either paid shills, or cyber-space thrill killers who are getting their kicks thinking about how many people they going to kill with their B.S.

-- Ocotillo (peeling@out.===), October 29, 1999.

loki, (God of Mischief)

You want to explain why you think it's wrong to want to lock people up who shoot at strangers?

I think you are pulling my laria, so I'll assume you were just putting me on if you don't respond.

-- (_@_._@_.), October 29, 1999.

You said it loki, what a frightening, violent person

-- PD (FUbar@a.com), October 29, 1999.

(_@._@._@._)

Your right, people who have a difference of opinion are not a waste of time. It's that the lack of civility over the last two days has not changed anyone's view and made it a chore to wade through the muck. I just don't see what you get out of it. BTW, I hope I spelled your (name?) right, I'm new at this.

-- tory (tory@hotmail.com), October 29, 1999.

I don't want to change anyone's mind. I would rather have them make their own choices... but I'd rather not have them get suckered into making the wrong choices. Choices like buying into bogus Y2K stuff, or buying a ton of useless stuff they don't want nor need. Of course the longer you guys are around trying to scare people with stories of what might happen the more often it will happen.

Why do I want to help? Call me sappy but I like to help when I can. And I think that if YOU THINK I am a violent person after ALL that I have written here today then you are way too quick to make judgements (you know who you are).

-- (_@_._@_._), October 29, 1999.

Squirrel hunter...ya got potential.

-- a (a@a.a), October 29, 1999.

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The difference between the legitimate members of this forum and the illegitimate posters is simple to explain.

Those who come here in a spirit and attitude of harmony, tranquillity and freedom from disturbance are sharing this forum in the American tradition of freedom of speech. Wherein, no party may utter words which are in violation of the law and yet are free to honestly share thoughts and opinions of interest to those assembled.

IN THIS FORUM as in the public at large, Americans must obey rules of conduct which allow the needs of the group, thus assembled, to communicate as the group honestly seeks. Those who would devise or act to disrupt such free and open discussions, should in the American tradition be warned first to desist.

AND IF THEY CONTINUE, THEY SHOULD BE EJECTED.

The illegitimate posters have ill intent toward the legitimate members of this forum and as such have differentiated themselves by their own definitions and actions. The ill will that they intend and act upon, as a group is unwarranted and unwelcomed. They are clearly here to destroy and disrupt.

THEY SHOULD BE EJECTED.

Freedom of speech is a two edged sword which cuts both ways.

I say lets let it cut them now and be rid of them!

**********************************************************************

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), October 29, 1999.

I (and I suspect most others) merely scroll down through the troll's messages...so they are mostly wasting their time! Sorry guys and gals, but I don't have much time to waste. I've got to get organized and remediate all that COBOL code...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), October 29, 1999.

Ferget about Y2K, I'm running for the Vice President slot on the Reform Party ticket.

Kook

-- Y2Kook (y2kook@usa.net), October 30, 1999.

Snooze,

Great post! Agree 100% about booting irresponsible posters.

For the trolls. "Useless stuff" to you may be very important to someone else. If 2 months extra rations aren't necessary, then the homeless shelters and the food pantries will greatly benefit. Is that useless?

If there are other things that you might consider useless, say for instance, colloidal silver, then post your reasons WHY it is useless. Putting "flame" postings only shows your ignorance and low- self esteem, it does NOT prove why your opinions are right (even though the may well be right). Verbal garbage only turns people off and they will not pay attention to your message.

What are your reasons for thinking Y2K will be nothing? Where are your links to prove it? How much remediation have you done? What is YOUR personal experience(s) with humanity?

Personally, I've been in data/wordprocessing, a researcher, and have been on more than a few inter-departmental process streamlining meetings for LCI/Qwest (long-distance telephone company). What I've seen is that even with the best intentions, there is some amount of failure - this is the essence of human nature. With that in mind, Y2K is so very complex, that to have NO glitches would require perfection, and you know that isn't humanly possible. What is the big unknown, is HOW MANY glitches, and their severity will occur, and how well the contingency plans work. Anyone else who says they know, just doesn't - it's too complex.

Now, if you intent is to educate, then remember that causing anger won't help you get your message across. If it's a power trip, then I think you already know that we're laughing at you - it's the ignorant and cowardly who need "power" the most.

-- Deb (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), October 30, 1999.

There was an interesting discussion in the TB2000 preparation discussion forum about non-gun based self-defense. Check it out: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001Z ai

Here's some of my more pertinent remarks from that thread:

"I think people need to think about these very personal things very carefully. Most importantly, know thyself. With such self-knowledge, you can make contingency plans that are appropriate for you. For example, I think Jeremiah makes some good points. If you have it in you to use deadly force on an aggressor who is threatening you or your family and you don't want a gun, I think you need to really explore why it is that you don't want to have a gun for self-defense. Are you being
reasonable?

If you fear the legal consequences, I believe that if you are going to be prosecuted for manslaughter, it may not
make much of a difference whether you shot the aggressor, beat them with an aluminum baseball bat, or bashed their
skull in with a big rock. Then, again, it might make a difference. Baseball bats, sticks, knives, cars, etc... these are
often considered deadly weapons in normal times. And the force and determination it takes to physically kill an
aggressor with such means... may be construed as problematic or excessive in a court of law.

For example, did you continue to bash in the skull of the aggressor when he was already subdued? Did you stab
the aggressor thirty times? If you disabled an agressor and held them captive for 14 days in what might be
construed as a cruel and unusual manner, what will judge and jury think? It seems to me that this may be evaluated
much differently than three shots in the chest of an armed aggressor that was facing you when you shot them. Of
course, I'm not a lawyer, but you may want to consult a criminal defense attorney and find out how courts act in
such cases.

Moreover, if you are going to disable aggressors, you will need to restrain them, and you may need to feed and
water them as well. Have you prepared a brig of sorts with food, water, and medicine? If you tie them to a tree
outside and they die of exposure, etc., and its not teotwawki, you may have to do some time for that... as well as
your accomplices. Are you mentally and physically prepared to go to prison or a work camp for your actions? Or
are you prepared to flee as soon as you can-- if you do something that may lead to an arrest and/or conviction?"

...

"Beyond concerns about arrest and conviction for man slaughter and/or premeditated murder (didn't you write that
you were going to shoot a trespasser on the TB2000 forum? And here are your very words in the archive!),
consider also the potential for civil actions for wounding a person (directly or indirectly). Wild Weasel's icing the
road is clever, but if a neighbor saw you do it, will they be a witness against you if someone crashed their car
and/or was injured as a result. If someone cuts themselves on your concertina or slips on your icy sidewalk, I
hope they don't sue you for your house and gold (didn't you mention you had gold American Eagle coins on the
TB2000 forum?).

The problem with coming short of teotwawki should be very obvious by now. We are constrained by laws in
devising practical methods of self-defense. Don't expect a DGI or DWGI jury to have any sympathy for you, after
all, a prosecutor may demonstrate that you were a whacko survivalist. So when you evaluate any of the various
weapons that may be used for your self-defense, do seek legal counsel and understand the local laws and cases
where the defendant claimed that they acted in self-defense. My purpose here is not to discourage you in thinking
about and making contingency plans for self defense, but to explore all the ramifications of choosing a specific or a
variety of tactics.

There are several non-violent measures that can be taken: strong doors (fiberglass or steel, for example) with
good locks and, possible a 2 x 4 brace. Cover easily accesible windows with marine plywood or even something
stronger. Of course, if you have lots of money to put into non-violent home defense, you can install fire doors on
steel frames, shatter-resistant windows with steel shudders, etc. Build safe rooms. Work with your neighbors to
get a 24 hour neighborhood watch going and equip them with CBs. Be sure to coordinate with local police and
fire departments to use a channel for emergencies. If you take action as a neighborhood against outsiders, you
stand a better chance of not being a target.

Running a 24 hour neighborhood watch team that is securing the whole neighborhood will be very difficult. Most
people are likely to not pay enough attention to what is going on, fall asleep, etc. If they are armed, they probably
don't have a license to be an armed guard (if your local area or state requires such). They might get in trouble.
And you should be prepared to pay for their legal defense and to take care of their family for months to years--
whether or not you agree that they did the right thing (if it comes to that). Those who patrol the neighborhood with
guard dogs might need the same kind of support if the dogs end up biting someone. On these matters, neighbors
will be divided.

In fact, the neighborhood might want to hire a retired police officer to watch the neighborhood. If you do hire an
armed security guard, treat them very well or they may just turn their back on you in a real crunch. Make sure
someone brings your armed guard hot coffee through out the night. Alternate homes that are open to him
througout the day or night: he'll need to warm up, use the bathroom, get something to eat, etc. If you don't like or
trust your armed guard enough to have him in your homes, you better find you that you can trust and have in your
homes. You might also provide him with provisions for his family including food, water, kerosene heater,
kerosene, blankets, etc."

Sincerely,
Stan Faryna

Can't get a good price on something? Click here and check out the cooperative preps thread.

Got 14 days of preps? If not, get started now. Click here.

Click here and check out the TB2000 preparation forum.

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), October 30, 1999.

Deb,

You are the worst kind of DGI. If you recommend that people give up their preps after January, you just don't understand. IT IS FOOLISH TO PREPARE FOR Y2K, WE _MUST_ PREPARE FOR _ANY_ EMERGENCY, ANYTIME. Getting it is a lifestyle change, not just having a little extra food in January. Do not give away your food, cycle it. That means keep buy new, and eat the oldest, and keep your stock for the next emergency that might invade your life.

Tory,

I come here for the entertainment. If I want adult conversation and information, I go to Cowles's forum.

-- walt (walt@lcs.k12.ne.us), October 30, 1999.

Thank's Walt!

-- tory (tory@hotmail.com), October 30, 1999.