What's Lacking on this Forum???greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread |
There seems to be something lacking on this forum. It appears as though informative Y2K news is drying up, and there's a lack of constructive dialogue. Are we losing steam or have we run out of important things to say? I wonder where all the newbies are at, I was expecting this board to be overwhelmed by now with people wanting to prepare. What about the stock market, some here thought it would be down to 9000 by now. Have we miscalculated?
-- Rasty (Rasty@bulldogg.xcom), October 24, 1999
Y2K Pro, Andy Ray, Maria, Cherri, Double Decker, that Butthead guy, and Chicken Little have tried to ruin this once glorious forum. We can still bring it back to it's salad days though!
-- Jim Jim (JJ@driioc.com), October 24, 1999.
Rasty, would you point us to the posts on this forum where you've done some research and said some important things, and to those on the preps forum where you've outlined helpful information for prep newbies? And I look forward to your informative thread on the stock market.You wouldn't be a troll, would you?
-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 24, 1999.
Rasty, if it isn't in here ask for it.Please check out the Preperation Forum below
And from the depths of the forums history
TB Year 2000 Classic Preparation Archive
Choose the category you are interested in and press Enter. The link will appear in a new page. Close window to return.
Category Also relevant links for Y2K information from the US Senate
*****Senate 100 Day Report in HTML*****
International Hearing
Foreign Preparedness for Y2K CIA Testimony Must read
Jacquelyn Williams-Bridgers, State Department Inspector General
Howard Rubin Must read
International Y2K Risk (International Monitoring)
DOTInternational Civil Aviation Y2K Information Review
A SEC Y2K disclosure that is historic IMHOENRON --- This one will make your hair stand on end !
Another historic document.(HTML) Report to the Senate Special Committee on the Year 2000 Technology Problem
Best Y2K water site.California State Water Resources Control Board,
A good over view of Y2K as seen by the Gartner Group(Gartner)Year 2000 World Status, 2Q99: The Final Countdown
Categorized corperate SEC filings
Is Motorola concerned?MOTOROLA INC - (Year 2000 Disclosure) Quarterly Report (SEC form 10-Q) August 3rd
My Canadian site
-- Brian (imager@home.com), October 24, 1999.
It's called burnout
-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 24, 1999.
Not a troll Old Git, and I have read all the threads and links listed below. That isn't exactly what I am talking about. The links below are very informative, but perhaps we've reached a point where maybe we have said it all. Didn't mean to get your dander up and I have contributed to this forum in many different ways. Maybe it's time for me to move on like Mumsie and a few others have done recently. When the fun and interest is gone that must be a sign.
-- Rasty (Rasty@bulldogg.xcom), October 24, 1999.
Okay--Fun. May I have the pleasure of this mudwrestle?
-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 24, 1999.
What this forum needs is a jungle gym. The kind with the maze of clear and opaque tubes. But these tubes should be big enough for adults to crawl through. And there shouldn't be those stupid signs that say you have to be under four and a half feet to play on it. I always ignore the sings but then some pimply-faced red-suited little bureocrat comes out to tell me to get off.Damn jungle-gym Nazis.
-- Typhonblue (typhonblue@hotmail.com), October 25, 1999.
Rasty,About a week ago, I hit a wall. Suddenly, I found myself lacking the entusiasm to go thru with a post. I mean, I would have something to say, either as an original thread, or in response to something someone else had said, but after switching over to the "Post Answer" screen, I'd just say, "Never mind", and switch over to something else. I've come to feel that all I'm doing when I post, is show off my writing ability (or if you're some who've been so kind as to supply critique, my lack thereof), and not really doing anything to increase awareness.
Everybody's mind is made up. No matter what you say, whether your post is opinion based or fact based, those who already agree with you will hoot and stamp their feet, and those who disagree will find some way to tear it down. Responses have become so pathetically predictable. Everyone is firmly hunkered down into their chosen camps. If you're a doomer and you say, "The sky is blue", the pollies will spin some pseudo-logic to prove you're deluded. If you're a pollie, and say, "I like oranges", doomers will find some way to twist that into proof that you're some sort of gov't operative.
There's not even the "thrill of the kill" left. There's a certain group that is dominant on the forum. If you're a member of that group, then getting group concensus that you've crushed and opponent in a debate is so easy, as to have no savor. If you're outside of that group, getting that consensus is the impossible dream.
So if you can't communicate, and you can't experience "the thrill of victory", it does tend to take the zing out of things. I think most people came into this forum with a particular goal in mind. For some that goal was to change minds, and for some it was just for a chance to make someone else look like a fool. Either way, by this late date, either you've accomplished you're goal, or you've come to realize that it ain't gonna happen.
When I started posting to this forum in July, it was specifically to try to reach those people mentioned a few posts above: Y2k Pro, Maria, Cherri, etc. There's a dangerous notion afoot that somehow bad computer code gives a rat's ass about your politics - that Y2K is a "right wing" issue. I'm Joe Average and I have no delusions about being anything other than. I'm not a political or religious extremist. I'm neither rich not poor. I have no particular axe to grind with any sector of TPTB. My whole goal was to show that you don't have to be to the right of Pat Buchanan to believe that bad code can really screw up you day (week/year/decade/century). As far as I can tell, those people have taken no notice and persist in their myopic view that only people who say "gubmint" and spell Clinton with a "K", believe that anything will happen at rollover.
I suspect that it's the same for a lot of other forum participants, regardless of what viewpoint they come from. They've convinced everyone they're going to convince, and continued posting is just so much moving around of the hot air.
Frankly, the only reason I continue to hang around, is I've actually become fond of quite a few people here. That, and you never know, someone may actually show up with an open mind sometime in the next 60 days, lol.
-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), October 25, 1999.
LOL! I agree with TyphonBlue!
-- Bokonon (bok0non@my_deja.com), October 25, 1999.
Boks!! I've been wondering what became of you, and I have missed your "voice". I'm not here to win debating points, popularity contests, or to change anybody's mind. Could be I'm just helping to move around hot air (nice analogy). But, I am genuinely fond of many of the posters here. It is good to have someplace to go and kick the can around about something (y2K) that does occupy my thoughts. There are very few people in my Real World that I discuss Y2K with.
-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), October 25, 1999.
I, for one, would like to see more posts on the significance of backward masking in the palindromes we learned as kids... I mean, the Y2K stuff is sure interesting, but EVERY DAY? Like the Joker said in the first Batman movie.."This town needs an enema!!" Best Palindrome I remember: "A man, a plan, a canal, Panama". Do you see the inference? We were getting set up to give the canal to China!! yeah...Them palindrome writers are devious fellows, somehow connected with the NWO, I'm sure!
-- Jay Urban (JAYHO99@AOL.COMj), October 25, 1999.
When I started posting to this forum in July, it was specifically to try to reach those people mentioned a few posts above: Y2k Pro, Maria, Cherri, etc. There's a dangerous notion afoot that somehow bad computer code gives a rat's ass about your politics - that Y2K is a "right wing" issue.And what makes you think that Y2k Pro, Maria, Cherri, etc. believe that notion?
-- (duh@duh.duh), October 25, 1999.
Bokonon, you said it exactly the way that I feel. I'm too tired to get into a pissing contest with anyone here, so I think I'll just lay low and check in everyone in a while. The people here are addicting...there's many good people here, but it's the topics that have been somewhat lacking lately.
-- Rasty (Rasty@bulldoggg.xcom), October 25, 1999.
RUOK,Thanks. Nice to hear I'm missed. I dunno. Maybe I've just hit an intellectual "air pocket", or maybe it's the end game jitters that A&L have talked a lot about, lately. Rereading my post from last night, I realize that I was implying that anyone who posts here is wasting their time. I gotta apologize for that. I've always felt it was a sin to willfully try to knock the wind out of someone elses sails. I should rephrase that to it seems that my posts are having no effect, but, as the saying goes, your results may vary.
I was kinda bummed out last night, too. A very close friend just went DGI on me. She had been making preps and last night in a phone conversation, she made the statement, "The power's not going to go out", in that tone that says, "this is not up for debate". I asked why she thought it wasn't going to go out, and she said, "I just don't believe it will". Boom...end of discussion. Pretty disheartening, especially at this late date. She wasn't exactly moving like a house afire on her preps before, so she has no time to waste ( I guess she was a SGI - sorta got it).
Duh Duh Duh,
With Pro, there has been quite a bit of going on about it, so it's hard to miss. Granted, with the others, there's some extrapolation going on. As a result of my younger "lefty" days, most people I know fall somewhere on that end of the spectrum. It's a rampant attitude among my friends. Most of them think either Mabes and I have fallen in with an evil crowd and are being brainwashed or we're being just plain silly.
-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), October 25, 1999.
Duh Duh Duh,With Pro, there has been quite a bit of going on about it, so it's hard to miss.
Then perhaps you can provide an example. All I've seen is Y2KPro making fun of doomers and calling them "tinfoils" a lot. Not much about labeling the problem itself as a right-wing issue.
Granted, with the others, there's some extrapolation going on.
With you doing the extrapolation. It's not just "going on."
As a result of my younger "lefty" days, most people I know fall somewhere on that end of the spectrum. It's a rampant attitude among my friends. Most of them think either Mabes and I have fallen in with an evil crowd and are being brainwashed or we're being just plain silly.
But this has nothing to do with the people you mentioned who posted here. Basically you claimed you were trying to "reach" people here (pollies, for the most part)who subscribed to the notion that the "code cares about your politics." My point is that there's no evidence that any of the pollies here support such a notion.
Perhaps you are as guilty as the pollies with regards to making assumptions about the viewpoints of the "other side."
-- (duh@duh.duh), October 25, 1999.
BINGO!
-- flora (***@__._), October 25, 1999.
Rasty, I'd like to clarify why I stepped back from this forum.Someone recently added my name to a list, a Christian forum (I do believe that Jesus is who He claimed to be, and I thought it would be a good thing). Something topical came up, and there were some bonkers responses. Some of the posters here would have loved it, it was a debate about birth control. I threw in my two cents, among many others. One who was a longtime resident of that forum/playground threatened to renounce his faith, and blamed me. I was flabberghasted and shocked. I'd never experienced anything like that before. I cried. They immediately hovered over and cajoled the tantrum thrower, and I was the designated scapegoat for bringing trouble to paradise. My daughter, who shares the Shezdremn, read the posts and responded in my defense (which I was unaware of until later), calling a few people on the carpet. They responded to her with name calling and insults, then immediately returned to posting to each other with cyber blessing and hugs, and she and I were 'kicked off' their forum. We then received some obscene and threatening personal email (any helpful hackers here?) It was a bizarre experience. So, my initial withdrawal from this forum was truly an emotional reaction, perhaps influenced by my thoughts on whether I should go low-profile as Hyatt advised. The wonderful responses to my 'goodbye' were enormously healing to my soul. (I felt like Tom Sawyer at his own funeral.) I've thought much about sigmund's advice (thanks sigmund) and though I think he was right, just have my hands full and I'm more than a bit tired. This all came at a time when my father was in the hospital for cancer surgery, and I was torn over not traveling to be there, because I'm packing and looking for a place as we speak! I continue to lurk because I don't have time for thorough research, and so many of you kindly share what you find. I also receive tremendous benefit from the prep advice, what kind, how much, what brand, and who has the best prices etc. I loved the thread on prep clutter ( thanks Libby!). It made me laugh, and that is better than crying. Regarding the stock market, be patient and be prudent. The Bible teaches that there is wisdom in the counsel of many, and many fiscal conservatives have explained how the economy is currently a house of cards. Whether rollover brings dramatic changes or not, do not be quick to discard or sell your preps. Our awakening is a gift. I believe that most of us will not willingly return to a sleepy dependent lifestyle. This forum still has so much to offer! I continue to privately (and therefore perhaps selfishly) benefit from it. In a world of sheeple, it is heartening to know there are others out there who are willing to face the truth for its own sake, come hell or high water.
Greetings Yourdonites! My thoughts and prayers are with you. God bless!
-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), October 25, 1999.
Mumsie, if you have been threatened in anyway, there are laws that protect you. As a matter of fact, the authorities just arrested a parapheligic for sending threatening e-mails and cyber-stalking. Since you did not tell the story as to why you left, I assumed you left because you grew weary and tired of this forum. Take care and don't cry so much, you've got to be strong and remain true to your convictions.
-- Rasty (Rasty@bulldoggg.xcom), October 25, 1999.
What's missing?In a word: TOLERANCE!
-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), October 25, 1999.
Duh Duh Duh,I never claimed that anyone but me was doing the extrapolating. As for Pro, what I've read, is him doing a lot of "right-wing bashing". Sorry, didn't bother to make note of the threads. Sue me.
As I said, I made the post at a down moment. Your refusal to acknowledge my admission that perhaps I was being just a tad emotional, when I spoke, indicates that you are simply out to pick a fight. Sorry, not interested. Go find another playmate.
Mumsie,
Glad to see you haven't gone away! I wouldn't let a few morons get you down. I've had that same sorta crap thrown at me, in other arenas. While it's true that there's a certain degree of risk involved, whenever any of us go on the net, my experience is that most of these intimidation tactics are just babies playing.
-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), October 25, 1999.
What's Lacking on this Forum???The elusive 'Beefed Up Server'.
Welcome back to the bin, Mumsie!
-- flora (***@__._), October 25, 1999.
Y2K Pro, Andy Ray, Maria, Cherri, Double Decker, that Butthead guy, and Chicken Little have tried to ruin this once glorious forum.I have? Does this mean no one liked my advice on cooking with cast iron cookware on wood stoves? (You really should cure it.
I do not believe I have ever given my personal view of what I think will happen due to Y2K.
As I have an extensive background in hardware/software and understand in detail it's interconnectiveness.
Coding-or what I call software, is to me nothing more than square waves "and"ing and "or"ing, one's complimenting, breaking down from 16 or 32 digits to 64 or 128 "bits" boolean logically running through integrated circuits, building up from machine language (one's and zero's) simplifying up to macro's within macro's until it "turns into" people friendly computing.
None of this runs on opinion or what someone believes should happen, could happen, might happen. It is as it is and no amount of thinking has the ability to change the physical actions that occur. It does not do what it does by a condenses of opinion, by a vote of a majority, by "researching" the web sites on the internet for a year or two. No amount of "white papers, books, forums, "if" "and" or "buts" or even prayers can or will change the laws of physics.
I realize I am in a position to understand computing and "embedded" literally down to the atomic level (theory of electronics and mechanics) which most people have not been in a position to learn.
I have no need to twist words, double-talk, badger or demand anyone believe anything I say. I have no psychological need for people to believe me, agree with me or trust me. I respect the right of people to reason for themselves, to take or reject whatever I say as they choose.
I do admit to frustration for the lack of logic and common sense some people exhibit, such as blindly believing someone like Paula Gordon who knows nothing about "embedded" except for reading web sites about it, or Bruce Beach who invents things that don't even exist about embedded chips.
How does what I write ruin this "glorious" forum? It should not be possible to ruin the ideology of this forum if the beliefs were concrete. How is it possible for the words of a few to be a threat?
My father talks of being 4 years old and looking out at the Pacific Ocean and "seeing the water as a wall that went up to the sky. It was the perception of a very young and inexperienced mind. As his mind developed and he gained knowledge, his perception changed.
The things that some people say about embedded chips and systems can sound reasonable, especially if they are skilled and know how to be convincing. This can create a perception that is believable to people who are concerned and seeking knowledge about them. But perception is not always fact. I believe that more information, especially unbiased and factual information can help hone perceptions closer to reality.
The truth is out there. (Hey, I'm watching The X-Files *grin*)
-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), October 26, 1999.
Duh Duh Duh,I never claimed that anyone but me was doing the extrapolating.
You used passive voice so as not to indicate anyone was doing the extrapolating. Just come out and say what you mean.
As for Pro, what I've read, is him doing a lot of "right-wing bashing". Sorry, didn't bother to make note of the threads. Sue me.
Relax.
As I said, I made the post at a down moment. Your refusal to acknowledge my admission that perhaps I was being just a tad emotional, when I spoke, indicates that you are simply out to pick a fight. Sorry, not interested.
You say "Sue me" above and I'm out to pick a fight? You misrepresented a viewpoint of the pollys, I asked for evidence, you gave me some weasel-words the shills would be proud of ("there's some extrapolation going on" oooh where? where???), and now you say "Sue me." You're a hypocrite, Bokonon, you claim that pollies make erroneous assumptions about the doomers and here you are making them about the pollies. You claim that you're not interested in a "fight," but then you say "Sue me" and...
Go find another playmate.
Yeah, maybe you're still just "a tad emotional." I'll just write it off to that.
-- (duh@duh.duh), October 26, 1999.
What's Lacking on this Forum???LOOOONG list.
common sense, logic, humanity, honesty, integrity,openmindedness, tolerance, openness, kindness,technical skills, interest (not self interest),yaddayaddablahblahblah......... ...........
-- Sad (sad@why.didithappen?), November 02, 1999.
Hey that was great--I can read all those letters so I don't need new glasses yet. Thanks!
-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), November 02, 1999.
Hey that was great--I can read all those letters so I don't need new glasses yet. Thanks!I had a little trouble with some of the words after "blahblahblah," but otherwise, I didn't have any problems.
-- (duh@duh.duh), November 02, 1999.
Hello,Rasty, I agree. This forumn had seen it's better days come and go. I also agree with several others...especially "SAD" (above).
Basically, recently, my opinion of this place has fallen quite a bit. There used to be stuff posted of interest -- even though you had to wade thru a lot of muck for it. Now? Less and less every day. Sadly, most posting by the "doomer crowd" here is quite lacking in most of the ways "Sad" mentions. The logic, reasoning and so called "debate" that is posted would be laughable if it were not so sad; it's even worse than my spelling when I type!
More and more, I figure "Why bother -- they're idiots and ideological despots and facist" -- and incapable or unwilling to engage in a discussion". In fact, it's so sad recently, that it's not even much fun to BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!! at the idiots here. I guess when those here "reply" with deranged reasoning and lame attempts at debate enough times, you figure "why bother"...and "laughing at mentally deficient people really is not cool....my laughter and contempt has turned to disgust and pity" -- they're pathetic.
This place is in it's death throes...and several here who have invested a lot of time in this place will, I predict, exhibit even more pathetic behavior as they go thru their "greiving process" at the demise and death of their "baby" and "support group/cult".
There seems to be more and more people rubbing the doomers noses in it over the last few weeks. Good! Many of them NEED IT!!! With all the failed predictions, the lack of disaster from predicted "trigger dates" and the lack of REALLY BAD NEWS, what else is there for doomers who refuse to accept they were wrong to do? Just get more rabid, vicious and crazy -- that's what! Watch 'em come unwrapped more and more over the next several weeks. It would be both fun and funny if they were not so pathetic and pitiful.
Lastly, for those who adore me so....BWAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!
-- Genius (codeslinger@work.now), November 02, 1999.
Genius, I have a lot of time certainly invested in this place but it was my choice to be here, and my choice to participate. I think of it as a form of relaxation and communication with people. Some people invest their time and money in lots of things like golf, bike riding, sailing, etc. If TB2000 goes down, the internet is a mighty big place to be. This site is not my life, it's a place to come and get news and information. I believe I have enough common sense and intelliegence to go through the threads and process the information in my own mind as to what is truth or bull. It is true that there may be some doomers who are vicious, but it is equalliy true about the pollies. But really Genius, to me it no longer matters who is a doomer or polly, I come here for information and news, that's where I spend the majority of my time. This is recreation for me not a job. BTW, the chat room is a fun place to be, and because of this thread, Bokonon created something special.
-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), November 02, 1999.