Subject:	OT: Government Maniacs Out Of Control
Date:	1999/10/23
Author:	Paul Milne <fedinfo@halifax.com>
	Posting History

Clinton Wants To Use Social Security To Pay Debt 11.35 a.m. ET (1543 GMT) October 23, 1999 WASHINGTON - Raising the stakes in the battle over the federal budget, President Clinton said Saturday he will propose legislation to use Social Security surpluses to pay down the national debt. The idea, as described by Clinton in his weekly radio address, is to pay down more than $3.1 trillion in public debt over the next 15 years as part of a plan that would make the United States debt-free for the first time since 1835. =========================== If anything at all, this ought to convince you what a deluded moron Klinton is. First of all.....what is the 'National debt' and who is it owed to? Do you know. Did we buy stuff from Sears and put it on a credit card? No The alleged national debt is created when congress 'borrows' from the Federal reserve, a PRIVATE not a Federal Government institution. The Federal reserve Act of 1913 gave the Federal reserve the 'right' to issue our 'currency' (Read: fiat paper) When the government wants money, they have to go to the Federal reserve. Without going into a long technical discussion of how this is carried out through the issuing of bonds and swapping them for the dollars, let it suffice to say that the Federal government 'borrows' the money at interest. THIS interest is the National debt that is owed to the Federal Reserve Bank. It can Never be repaid. They lend out the principal amount and not the interest. It creates a debt that can never be repaid. Example: The only currency that is existance is BORROWED into existence. When the government borrows 100 dollars at 105 interest, at the end of the year they owe back the 100 + 10 more dollars that were never there in the first place. But they have spent the 100 dollars and do not have that or the 110 that they owe. So they borrow 210 and pay back the 110 and now have 100 which they spend. Now, at the end of the second year they owe 220, but they have none. So they borrow 320, pay back 220 and have 100 to spend. The 'debt' contnues to rise and can never be paid off. The debt is a farce, a sham and is utterly unconstitutional. The Federal government could very simply PRINT the same notes at NO interest at all and distribute them. No national debt at all. That is exactly what Lincoln did during the civil war and what Kennedy did when he issued 100 million in US Notes two weeks before he was shot. The very first thing Johnson did after being inaugurated was to recall the US Notes. There is no reason whatsoever to have any National debt at all. Think about this. Why should the taxpayers of this country pay this interest payment to a private bank to issue their own currency? The Constitutional taxing clauses made it very very difficult for congress to tax the citizens directly. Actually, it was almost impossible. This is why the Federal Government remained very small until then begining of this century. Even if they wanted to spend money, they could not raise it. But they found a way to get around this. With the advent of the federal reserve, they no longer had to raise taxes beforehand in oreder to have the dough to spend. They could 'borrow' it from the Federal Reserve and then finance that borrowing by claiming that they had a public debt. And no one would want the US to renege on a public debt. So Congress got its money without going to the taxpayers and telling them why, which would have squashed those taxes in the first place, and we got the national debt. And now, Klinton is suggesting that we pay off a debt that can not be paid of with funds form ANOTHER Federal ponzi scheme, the SSA. Reform is no longer possible. The Federal Government is wildly wildly out of control. It needs to go, lock stock and barrel. There is no good thing left in it. It is a total perversion and the complete opposite of EVERYTHING that it was set up for in the first place. I really had to laugh at the part of making it debt free for the first time since 1835. Andrew Jackson routed out and closed the First Central Bank calling them a den of vipers. He did it for the EXACT same reasons that I am setting forth here. He knew that there was NO reason for the citizens to be paying interest on their own currency. Apparently Klinton does not learn from courageous men like Jackson. Instead of slamming the doors shut on the Federal Reserve the way that Jackson did on the central bank, he prolifereates the scam, by attempting to rob Peter to pay Paul. http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/wires2/index.sml -- Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- a (a@a.a), October 24, 1999

Answers

For you people that read or believe only the 'approved' history books, you might not believe it but Hitler told the Central Bankers to take a flying leap also and you know all the rest, or you think you do.

Most of you are critical of joe sixpack for NOT investigating Y2K and accepting the PR statements of 'every thing is under control and 99% fixed' by the goverment. He and his family may be burnt next year but you have been on a slow boil all your working life by the Central Bankers and too mentally lazy to check it out.

-- Not a frog (Well@ReadoaboutHistory.com), October 24, 1999.

Clinton: "so we have decided to forgive 100% of the debt owed us by such and such country"

Excuse me!!!!!!!!!!! Did anybody ask me if I wanted to pay the taxes to forgive 100% of the debt to that country???

But yet there stands clinton, never having held a job in his life. Smiling broadly, waving his benevolent hand with our money!!

-- D.B. (dciinc@aol.com), October 24, 1999.

Uh oh, he DID inhale !!!

And it was like ten minutes ago.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 24, 1999.

Hey A,

While you are busy posting Mr. Milne's request for explanations (from others) - would you do me a favor and ask him to respond to my request. Have been waiting for him to post the information showing that Ericsson Communications Systems are non-compliant and failing daily. One individual stated that Milne did not frequent this site, so I went the extra mile and sent an email to him (directly). Perhaps you might have better luck at getting a response from him...Regards,

-- william holst (w_holst@hotmail.com), October 24, 1999.

This is exactly the reason I stopped filing income tax in 1989!!!!!

The US Tax Court tried to get me, but I refused to pay their $65 filing fee to argue my case. I simply told the tax court they had no jurisdiction, because the IRS Code is an instruction code for tax payers an not for non tax payers and the US tax court dismissed the case for lack of jurisdiction and I have not heard from them since 1991.

-- nomoretax (nomore@tax.com), October 24, 1999.

Of course, even for Mr. Milne, the accusation that agents of the Federal Reserve assassinated John Kennedy is huge: if true, the horror and outrage the public would express on finding out would probably topple our government. Thus, if true, the case could be made for keeping such a fact secret, forever. Spidey (and this may not come as a surprise, gentle reader) thinks this the most compelling argument. On the old WELL forum, the San Fran based computer usegroup, there was a brief paper asserting that JFK HAD printed these Treasury notes, but that they were all recalled after his death. The fellow who wrote 'Kill Zone' thought the same to be true (Craig Roberts, I believe): he maintains that the CIA, KGB, MI6, FBI, the whole kit and kaboodle are pawns of the central bankers, who intend someday to rule the world. Such is the stuff of schlock films, of fantasy: it is also true. It is the metaphysical curio underlying our entire system of governance: the formation of national and now international 'lenders of last resort' has concretized those financial powers that have worked everywhere and throughout history to corrupt the process of governance.

-- Spidey (in@jam.Dealy), October 24, 1999.

Paul, it is possible in theory to pay off the debt, although you are correct that it could never be done with Federal Reserve Notes (like trying to extinguish a fire with gasoline). We would rather have to go to work on the debt with something like the "silver certificates" of a bygone era. While we may prefer to just walk away from the debt, our currency would collapse if we did so, because our currency is now backed up by the debt (i.e., future production rather than past production). While some might like the idea of a collapsed currency, it would certainly create unpredictable trauma that might be worth trying to avoid. I certainly agree, in any event, that the debt is an outrage, and the Federal Reserve System is probably the greatest swindle ever played on the American people.

Keep up the good work.

Gore

-- Gore (BWGore@msn.com), October 24, 1999.

william holst:

This makes at least the second time that you have whined about Paul Milne ignoring you, and asked for some kind of "help" from here, as if we have say whatsoever on whom Paul M. chooses to correspond with. For all I know, you are being ignored for a good reason, like maybe you are some kind of psycho or something. How the heck should we know?

You accomplish nothing by whining, dude. If you think you have something worth sharing in general, by all means post it. Maybe you will get lucky and Paul M. will grace it with a comment. (Though I already have this feeling what little you have written so far, the comment would be along the lines of, "BWAHHHAAAHHHAAAAAA, what a butthead!")

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), October 24, 1999.

I have in front of me right this minute one of those $5.00 US Notes. I received it some years ago and kept as a curiosity. Series 1953, C. Douglas Dillon, Sec of Treasury...Kathryn O shay Grescham, Treasurer of the US.

They were out there but before JFK.

-- BS Plunger (Nocrap@allcrap.org), October 24, 1999.

KOS: William's point is a valid one. Milne made some rather wild accusations about some Ericsson products' Y2K compatability. William asked him for the evidence he had to back up such a claim. To date, Milne has not responded - most likely 'cuz he was talking out his rectum on this particular issue. (Paulie isn't realy noted for his apologies when he is wrong about a factual matter, is he?)

>>"maybe you [Holst] are being ignored for a good reason, like maybe you are some kind of psycho or something"<<

LOL, KOS. Milne and his syncophants are often the biggest psychos around here.

-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck@hotmail.com), October 24, 1999.

Johnny:

Milne got burned on this once or twice over on csy2k. When *you* are wrong, you're an idiot because the right answer (his) is invariably simple and obvious. But when Milne was wrong, suddenly the fact situation became very complex and ambiguous!

When people teased him about this, he quickly learned to vanish without a trace whenever he was in error. He vanished from threads on csy2k often enough under such circumstances so they have coined the phrase "Doomer Selective Amnesia Syndrome" in his honor.

So watch this: Hey Paul! Didn't you write last week that once the DOW fell below 10250, it was all down from there at an accelerating rate, without even momentary recovery? Can you admit you were wrong?

Now, let's see what happens. My money is on silence, with a side bet on "That's not what I meant, and I won't tell you what I *did* mean either."

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), October 24, 1999.

OK, then why don't one of you guys initiate a thread of the form "PAGING PAUL MILNE" or something of that nature, and ask the questions that you think you are owed answers for? My point is that whining about stuff like this across various diverse threads (such as william holst has done) is likely to get nowhere. Plus, since the stuff is off-topic to the threads, it makes it even more ludicrous to expect to get any kind of response.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), October 24, 1999.

K.O.S,

Yes, I could have started a new thread "paging Mr. Milne" but purposely attached my request to this one message. Due in part to its title(i.e., Explain this one Ken (Decker)), Paul or a.a are willing to demand others to back up their statments or call into question their competence - the least they can do is to follow suit when others question them. Additionally, I remember several individuals who persisted in posting the same request over and over to a particular person (Cheri) without regard to the thread's subject. Hey, if Paul has the proof of Ericsson Telecomm System's widely failing than I will drop the issue...Regards,

-- william holst (w_holst@hotmail.com), October 25, 1999.

flint-boy, you continue to be such an incredible asshole. Perhaps you believe that it is magic. Perhaps you are so naive or merely so ignorant that you think that markets move in a straight line in any direction. They go up, they go down. And rarely , if ever, do they simply move straight and continue straight. Be patient, little one.

But, *do* enjoy your straw man little one.

Have you got that bag of lime yet?

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), October 25, 1999.

Mr. Milne,

Glad to see that you were able to stop by and provide a reply to Mr. Flint...What about an answer to my question - I would like to see the info (inside scoop) that you have Ericsson's equipment. Their switch (AXE) is the most widely used one in the world (both wireline and wireless) so it would be detrimental if their equipment was widely non-compliant and failing as you claimed. Regards,

-- w holst (w_holst@hotmail.com), October 25, 1999.

Hey, hey Paulie....

Tick, tick, tick (as Sysman might say)...we're waiting for an answer to Mr Holst's very simple question. Perhaps the mental effort of thinking up an entirely unoriginal and typically vulgar riposte to Flint has sapped your synapses?

Yours from the frozen tundra,

-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck@hotmail.com), October 25, 1999.

Divide & conquer, boys, divide and conquer...oldest game in the book, and they do it so well...

-- Spidey (in@jam.serious), October 25, 1999.

*If* we move down to about 10,250, it's good night nurse, and you can kiss your a**es good-bye.

Don't necessarily expect a huge crash overnight, but the top has been reached and it is going the other way for good.

You heard it here FIRST.

Paul Milne 8/2/99

...the top has been reached and it is going the other way for good.

Perhaps you believe that it is magic. Perhaps you are so naive or merely so ignorant that you think that markets move in a straight line in any direction. They go up, they go down. And rarely , if ever, do they simply move straight and continue straight.

Paul Milne 10/25/99

So, it will go the other way for good, but not in a straight line.

LOL LOL ROTFLMAO!!!!!

-- (LOL@LOL.LOL), October 25, 1999.

William: As I recall, Paul was talking about problems in Montgomery county with their Erikson equipment. So maybe they've fixed the issue. Great. Now try tackling the other 10,033 topics Milne has posted on detailing real problems.

Flint: Paul said that after 10,250, the "top would be cut out". There has been no record high for the DOW since then. He is correct so far, and you, as usual, are a poor loser.

-- a (a@a.a), October 25, 1999.

Oh, and BTW, DOW down 103. Looks like the Plunge Protection Team will be busy tomorrow.

-- a (a@a.a), October 25, 1999.

a,

Go back and take a look at Milne's statement (which was posted by you on this website)...I have attached the relevent section below:

"This is a similar sytem to the Ericsson system used by Monkey County, Maryland. Ericsson is located a few miles from my home, in Lynchburg VA where they have a manufacturing facility. One of the guys i work with, who has a real 'big brain' told me Y2K was no problem because his Uncle works there and told him so. Ericsson radio systems are a major league Y2k screw up. Every day I read more and more about their systems failing miserable AFTER they told their customers that the were compliant."

If you read his last paragraph it is apparent that he is not referring to a single isolated system. But rather is implying that all systems utilizing their equipment is at risk. I will only question Paul's statements as they apply to my area of knowledge and experience: Telecomm, Power and Integrated Circuit Design.

-- william holst (w_holst@hotmail.com), October 25, 1999.

Paul... I tried to explain the FED to Mr. Decker last week on two different threads. He's a DWGI if ever there was such a thing. He dug out some lame propaganda to the contrary and got all happy that someone else had done his "heavy lifting" for him. Quite lame, if you ask me. All in all, he did, however,have a point... but should he keep his hat on I'm sure few will notice.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), October 26, 1999.