This is in a Business Week article on spirituality in the workplace:

"Some lawyers are even getting calls from companies worried about employees who seem to be gripped by a ``millennium madness,'' says Garry G. Mathiason, senior partner at Littler Mendelson, the largest employment law firm in the country. These Y2K zealots often call for violence, and the worry is they'll act out their missions at work."

-- Brett (savvydad@netins.net), October 24, 1999

Answers

Nope, most GI's are too busy surfing the y2k sites to do anything else while at work.

-- Butt Nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), October 24, 1999.

Brett,

Nice to see you as it's been a while. UNfortunately this IS the image we have... Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 24, 1999.

Some of us have been persistently calling for NONviolence.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 24, 1999.

And I'm sure that IF any violence does arise, fingers would be pointed at those who actually decided to think of this and prepare for it.

Yeah, I don't know about you, but my stash of non-hybrid seeds can be pretty intimidating.

I don't know anyone in the GI community calling for violence; now I know a few who think there may be violence. Hardly the same thing...

-sigh-

-- Brett (savvydad@netins.net), October 24, 1999.

On the other hand, the issue of Business Week dated October 25, 1999 has an article in it titled HOLD THE BUBBLY, FOR NOW - Y2K will affect everyone, from the ready to the clueless. There's no link since this is from the magazine, but here's a quote from it:

[snip]

So go ahead and order the bubbly. But don't get complacent about Y2K. Neither the Pentagon nor the Medicare system is fully prepared. Nor are many small and midsize American companies. And outside the U.S., the level of readiness varies from good in places such as Mexico and parts of Europe to abysmal in China, Indonesia, and most of Asia's developing economies. Disruptions in those economies could spell trouble fast for all sorts of U.S. businesses.

Back in the U.S., the very efforts to avoid disruptions are already distorting the economy. Surveys show that more than a third of manufacturers plan to hike inventories of raw materials, by 23% in the fourth quarter.

[snip]

And the truth is that until the calendar flips from 1999 to 2000 on computers everywhere, nobody really knows how well Y2K fixes work. Even the most diligent Y2K bug killers could not test every line of code in all their systems. So some systems are bound to fail.

A September survey by CAP Gemini America, a consulting firm, found that some 82% of large U.S. companies have already experienced a Y2K- related glitch. And some companies report fixes that don't hold up to repeated testing. "In most of these cases, it didn't stop the systems from working, but caused a whole lot of errors," says Howard Rubin, a consultant for CAP Gemini.

Financial markets will be affected, too, according to John Thain, co- president of Goldman Sachs Group, simply because people expect them to be. "Volume will be way down," he predicts. "We will see a much lower level of activity in the second half of December and the first two weeks of January." In the bond markets, the Y2K effect can be seen in growing interest-rate spreads. The risk premium on corporate bonds has risen by 10% and 20% since July. Curt Shambaugh, head of fixed-income strategy at Credit Suisse-First Boston estimates that U.S. bond issuance will fall to $23 billion in November from $42 billion in November, 1998.

[snip]

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), October 24, 1999.

Brett, are you serious? I've seen SCORES of people who state that they will start firing various firearms if someone comes to their house looking for food, etc.

Rather than sharing.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), October 24, 1999.

well gee al....

how would you respond if members of the general public and/or government routinely made comments regarding how they will take your possessions if they need to? is that considered "violent" to keep people from taking what you own and have rightfully paid for? are you going to offer your house or your car to the general public anytime soon? and if not, is it "violence" when you attempt to keep someone from taking it or is it "not sharing" when you don't offer it to someone? do you think the stockholders of business week are planning on giving away their stocks or financial holdings anytime soon? you can bet they would get really "violent" if someone felt obliged to help themselves to them.

come on now. we live in a country where the right to "enjoy" our property is supposed to be part of our rights(at least for now). but yet i have seen no other group (the GIs) become such a target for stupid remarks such as this because the financial community and government are so afraid that others will follow suit and our economy will collapse. what a dumb remark on the part of business week and i intend to call them on it. and if any of you want to stem this kind of name calling and blaming now (before there are severe consequences to it), i would encourage you to do so as well.

listen guys--whether you believe or don't believe--don't buy into the blame game that may ensue during y2k. we know where the blame lies--everywhere--and not just the GIs (besides most GIs have been finished prepping for quite a while/it will be the DGIs that empty the stores and banks). our whole economy and way of life is a house of cards and all based on short term thinking and economics. we just never expected a big wind like this to come and blow on it so hard.

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), October 24, 1999.

Al,

That's hardly the kind of violence the government fears. It's home defense, not aggressive. To say "rather than sharing" implies that people will have enough to share and simply choose to be selfish. Really, that doesn't seem to be the case. It's hard to see that sharing is an option, even if one wishes to and has the supplies. It's questionable how one could do that safely.

That said, we personally don't have guns and don't plan on it.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), October 24, 1999.

Going postal kinda blows the concept of a low profile.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 24, 1999.

Al,

I don't see protecting your home from thieves being a "call for violence" nor do I see it as representative of anyone's supposed desire to "act out their missions at work." Further, protecting one's home takes place whether it's January 1, 2000, or April 17, 1994. And when was the last time a judge busted the chops of the victim for not sharing their things with a criminal?

I think you're reading a lot into any comments people have made in conversation with you.

-- Brett (savvydad@netins.net), October 24, 1999.

"People who want to survive Y2K should be prepared to kill."

(its@coming.soon), July 27, 1999.

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), October 24, 1999.

In answer to an incredible Lamo:

Brett, are you serious? I've seen SCORES of people who state that they will start firing various firearms if someone comes to their house looking for food, etc. Rather than sharing.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), October 24, 1999.

===================

Look, bozo...May I call you bozo? You laughably maintain that people will merely shoot people who are 'looking' for food. No, you gigantic ass. if there is no food, they will not merely be LOOKING for food.

Think about the situation that would exist if people were out 'looking' for food, you simpleton.

People have a right, a GOD GIVEN right to defend their private property. Those people with who you insist that we should share, are those who unquestionably had heard about Y2K and DID NOTHING AT ALL. And now, because they refused to prepare, they want those who sacrificed in order to prepare to 'share'.

Interesting how the sharing only goes one way. After the fact, those who refused to prepare always put a high emphasis on 'sharing'. How convenient. They want me to SHARE because they f*cked up, but they REFUSED to share the burden of preparation. It is a two way street, bozo.

A foolish, stubborn, stiffnecked REFUSAL to prepare on their part, does not constitute an emergency response on my part, NECESSARILY.

Now, bozo, what happens to the underprepared family that has two weeks or a month of food and gives it away every time someone who refused to prepare comes along whining . It means that they abrogate their resposibility to their family and in two days they are sucking dog urine out of a rusty hubcap like the rest.

Life is not 'fair'. There are no guarantees. Is it 'fair' that I give away my children's food to strangers who REFUSED to prepare? Is it 'fair' that my kids starve because grown up, supposedly responsible people REFUSED to take care of their own families? Hmmmm? Is it?

I live on a mile long private road. My property is fenced off with a six foot barbed wire fence. It is MY property and I am minding MY own business in peace, harming NO ONE at all. Over the last two years I have sacrificed greatly in making preparations. I prepared while others went to Disneyland, bought SUV's and world series tickets. Do you understand? Do you have any regard at all for the meaning of private property? Do you have any regard at all for the rights of individuals?

If someone comes along, needing help and **ASKING** for help **NICELY**, they will get it from me in the degree that i may be able to help at MY discretion. My family's needs come FIRST. If someone comes along in a pick-up truck with a shot gun and is less than supplicant in nature, he can suck eggs.

It will not be ME who initiates violence. It will be them. You make out that those who have prepared are willing to shoot on sight for any reason at all. It is *you* who are the psycho to maintain that position. Eventually, it may get so bad that one has no recourse other than to shoot on sight. But that will come from practical experience, not from gun-happiness.

So, Al, sit on your fat ass, complain about the people who prepare. Go ahead and do nothing and whine about people who will defend themselves.

You aren't going to make it, bozo. Social darwinism in action, cleaning out the shallow end of the gene pool.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), October 24, 1999.

Sheesh, Paul...relax. With any luck at all, Al lives within 5 miles of a 7-11!

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), October 24, 1999.

Paul Milne, as usual, gets the prize for pointing out the obvious in a uniquely clear way. Paul, you should be a high school history teacher. There's a calling in education. Course 3/4 of the parents would separate you from the class with bullet-proof glass {vehemence meme ;}, but their kids would learns some real-life facts for a change :-)

We do find Paul's writing refreshing. My, what changes have been wrought in our consciousness the last year. Never used to go around muttering "butthead," but we feel so alive ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 24, 1999.

Hmmm....

Funny how Al would be so relaxed if someone broke into his home. Hey Al, since you're so phlegmatic about this, why don't you share your address with everyone? If hungry/violent neighbors come around, we can all send them to your house. How about it? Actions speak louder than words. Don't be like Y2K Dimwit Pro, who runs the mouth and pusses out when challenged to put action behind her/his/its words.

-- haha (haha@haha.com), October 24, 1999.

Paul Milne:

"People have a right, a GOD GIVEN right to defend their private property"

NOT. It may be legislated, it's not "God given".

-- Lois Knorr (knorr@attcanada.net), October 24, 1999.

"gripped by a "millennium madness""

Yup, that's just about everyone at my office. If we don't get this damned project working, our weekly supply of pay-checks is going to dry up. Not to mention a questionable future for our clients, some of which are much larger than us. Not good things to think about.

Thinking about all the short-cuts over the years. All the twisted code. All of the closed-wallet managers. All of the failed projects in IT history. All of the little things, one by one, each making it that much more difficult to fix this problem.

Yup, it's enough to drive anybody mad...

Tick... Tock... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 24, 1999.

>>>"It means that they abrogate their resposibility to their family and in two days they are sucking dog urine out of a rusty hubcap like the rest."< <<

Thank you Paul for that delightful word-picture! If there ever was a description of life that would get me to Aldi and Sam's, THAT would be it!

Bwaahahahahaha!

With your permission Paul, I've got some lazy family that I would like to impress with that wonderful description...every time I speak upon them.

Louis,

Please re-read the Constitution. Our rights are God-given according to the document. It says Congress "Shall make NO LAW...."

The law was already there, the Founders wanted to make sure that the State did not infringe on those rights.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), October 24, 1999.

Some of us have been persistently calling for NONviolence.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia

And some, without any opposition (only quiet support) have been calling for the cannibalistic consumption of pollies post- 000101. Linkmeister, still waiting for that link...

Out of work? Can't find any more Y2K remediation jobs? Did you wear your TEOTWAWKI t-shirt to the last interview?

Those beans and that rice was probably a good idea after all.

Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), October 24, 1999.

Lois,

According to the foundational documents of the American republic, rights are indeed "God given." That is precisely the reason they are "rights" rather than privileges. Check out the Declaration Foundation at http://declaration.net/

Gene

-- gene (ekbaker@essex1.com), October 24, 1999.

" ... calling for the cannibalistic consumption of pollies post- 000101."

LOL !

No, just observing that in really bad times, people get very hungry and eat whatever is edible. Look at North Korea now. Look at history.

And we are vegetarians and always will be.

We make meat dishes for our patients if they request it. And we are *excellent* cooks! :-) We see our patient's cadavers. Looking objectively as nurses are trained to do, we see that once the spirit leaves the body, what is left is clay meat.

What is the difference? A starving man's eyes will not see much difference. Study history.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 24, 1999.

Why would any sane person want to be violent at work? Just because my whole family thinks I am "paranoid, obsessed" with all this food buying, does not move me shoot my co-workers just because they seem to be DGI's. In fact, I am taking in breakfast to them tomorrow, home cooked, and there isn't any arsenic in it. Someone who thinks Y2K planners are all violent, is more "paranoid and obsessed" than I am!! How are you guys able to use such cool email addresses? I just tried to put in a fake one, and it wouldn't take. Thank you.

-- C. Watson (drac@mediaone.net), October 24, 1999.

Louis,I know that you have never condescended to read the Constitution, but those who wrote it recognized that the rights were GOD GIVEN regardless of your beliefs. Our entire governemt is PREDICATED upon the fact that those rights are GOD GIVEN.

They completely understood that if a 'right' is legislated INTO existence then it can be legislated OUT.

Of course ignorami like you do not understand the difference between God GIVEN rights and 'civil' rights. God given rights can NOT be legisalted away while civil rights, having been bestowed by a legislature, can. You go ahead and keep your perishable 'civil' rights and I will stick with the imperishable ones, thank you very much.

Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), October 24, 1999.

Who is Louis?

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), October 24, 1999.

Paul; It is funny how the light comes on sometimes. I have loved that document for nearly 50 years but I have never even thought about the implications you just laid on the table. Bravo... well said.

-- Michael Erskine (osiris@urbanna.net), October 24, 1999.

"And some, without any opposition (only quiet support) have been calling for the cannibalistic consumption of pollies post- 000101."

Funny, with 250,000 messages on this forun, Andy Ray brings this up time and again. Like it's the only thing that he can think of. The only thing that he can remember, from the hundreds of people that post here.

I guess there are some pretty sick people in this world.

Tick...Tock... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 25, 1999.

Al K. Lloyd: I find it hard to believe that someone can be as dense as you purport to be. You must be putting us on.

GI's violent? Heck no. When all those people that I've been urging to prepare but who snickered at my concerns behind my back and all the neigbors who didn't want to hear about Y2K and when all the grasshoppers who've been partying for the last 2 years decide to pay me a visit after the rollover, when they come to my house, AT MIDNIGHT OR 2 OR 3 IN THE MORNING(!), I'll just politely tell them that they must have confused my house with the supermarket or 7-ll down the street. Mistakes like that happen when the lights go out. But I'll be polite about it.

So there you have it. Aren't we nice?

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), October 25, 1999.

Andy, I doubt many would want to eat Pollys. I suspect they would taste like Sh**.

-- kozak (kozak@formerusaf.guv), October 25, 1999.

(See two examples of "quiet support" above.)

Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), October 25, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

Andy, if it's not in the Bell Yellow Pages, maybe it doesn't exist.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), October 25, 1999.

Lois, quoting Paul: "People have a right, a GOD GIVEN right to defend their private property"

NOT. It may be legislated, it's not "God given".

-- Lois Knorr (knorr@attcanada.net), October 24, 1999.

Hey, you ask your God, I'll ask mine.

And after all's said and done, we can ask again, in person. Some will merely get that chance sooner rather than later. Your choice.

-- harl (harlanquin@aol.hell), October 26, 1999.

Great post, Paul. As usual, you are right on the money. Being a free adult in a (mostly, if decreasingly so) free society means BOTH having the freedom to make choices, AND to receive the benefit of those choices if they were wise choices, OR to take the harm of poor choices if unwise decisions were made. (This is why the decision to start a family is so momentous.)

The way you blow through pretentious euphemistic veneers covering illogical/indefensible positions is as much what I enjoy about your writing style as the actual content. Paul, semi-pollies and full- blown DWGIs dislike you IMHO because their BS gets blown away right then, with no polite cover being inappropriately extended for them to hide behind for even the rest of that thread. Keep on keeping on, please; you're saving lives.

my site: www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), October 26, 1999.

I lost count of how many people post with an almost gleeful expectation of shooting someone. and I read a Paul Milne post that went something like "I guess I should thank God for the walking steaks" (the thread was on killing, butchering and eating the humans who survived post y2k)

"quiet support" is dead on! How many posters have expressed delight at "the polly will soon be dead...cold frozen and flushed out of the system"? How many more (moderates) have said NOTHING when comments like that are made?

-- U R not (2 sm@rt.R U?), October 26, 1999.

Lets not leave out MinnshiterSmith. This idiot bunghole never wastes an opportunity to post his "shafter" web addy.

Today must be double coupon day for butthead....he gets to do some shameless self-promotion AND lick Milne's asshole at the same time! (grovel grovel grovel)!

Whats it like to be a lackey, Smith?

-- Geez (whatsth@t.smell?), October 26, 1999.

The pollys lent 'quiet support' to Stephen Poole when he impersonated a utility employee.

-- It (cuts@both.ways), October 26, 1999.

WRONG "it". No one but a few new anything about it 'til after the fact. But you wouldn't know that.

-- 0-5609872346 (lkjhxcglbiq8ybwery@j.dyqlwuetvb.;ldbwqpvdsgvsaryb), October 26, 1999.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Paul Milne: "People have a right, a GOD GIVEN right to defend their private property"

NOT. It may be legislated, it's not "God given".

-- Lois Knorr (knorr@attcanada.net), October 24, 1999.

Lois,

If you allow yourself to remain so ignorant, you are not just a danger to yourself, you are a danger to your country! And people wonder what I mean when I declare the fact that women getting the right to vote was the day our country suffered a mortal wound. What type of "hairdo" do you vote for, sweetie?

Thomas Jefferson said that any law repugnent to the constitution was NULL AND VOID and no man has the obligation to obey any such "non- law"; of course, if you choose to remain ignorant of your rights - that is the same as not having any, (yes, officer, I don't mind if you search my car... yes officer, I have a gun right here...) People like you sicken my sensibilities!

Perhaps you should stick to commenting on Canada's laws.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), October 26, 1999.

I didn't see ANY pollys criticize Stephen Poole for that stunt. I believe that's how 'quiet support' is defined.

-- It (cuts@both.ways), October 26, 1999.

Why critisize someone for an experiment that was designed to HELP the doom idiots break out of the meme?

For your info, it was design to prove to the meme-heads that they took every single shred of bad/negative evidence at FACE VALUE without ever checking the source (look at the way Milne bit hook, line, and sinker....LOL!)

FYI it was several de-bunkers....who DIDN'T know it was a hoax...that posted to the thread and "de-bunked" the story. More proof that Poole didn't "leak" the story before hand to very many (rememeber that is what debunkers do....they blow bad info right out of the water, wherever they find it.)

I wish I had known (and I bet others do as well) It sure would have been interesting to watch the doomidiots flop all over themselves preaching "doom, DOOM and MORE DOOM!!!" (kinda like the c4i scam [wink wink])

chao memehead. Live life or fear it....YOUR choice!

-- Notso quiet supporter (support@not.athletic), October 27, 1999.

This deception was spotted quickly. Why The Power Will Fail In 2000

Ends do not always justify the means.

-- It (cuts@both.ways), October 27, 1999.

c4i is for real.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 27, 1999.

heh!

-- Yeah (OK@what.ever), October 27, 1999.