Ok - this all stems from a post I put forth speculating that gold could go to $500 by November...

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A bear trap has been formed, which has developed pretty much as expected. What happens now? Everyone who sold Gold when it broke through the major 17-year support zone below $280 must now buy it back, It's a classic bear trap, and it was formed during what in all likelihood will prove to be Gold's bear market low. In other words, I don't think we will ever see Gold once again trade under $280 per ounce. A bold statement?

I don't think so because we know that Gold is fundamentally very undervalued. When looked at from this point of view, all I'm saying is that we will never again see this extreme level of undervaluation, which is not an unreasonable conclusion. So far Silver has been very quiet, letting Gold take center stage. However, don't be lulled into complacency because beneath the surface, Silver is bubbling along, and is very near a boil. The lid is about to fly off this boiling pan as well. Silver is ready to break out of its massive 13-year accumulation pattern. We could see my long-standing $10 target by November, along with $500 Gold.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), October 23, 1999

Answers Andy, James Turk has been around for years saying the same-O-same-O. Gosh, it's scary, reading something so similar to what he and other "goldbugs" wrote back in 1985 ... to the effect that we'll never see Gold below $300 again once it gets back over $300...buy now before its too late... and then of course gold managed to get over $400 in the next 3 to 4 years. These guys are absolutely "nutso." IMHO.

Gold is not looking so good technically. In fact, while there might be a bear trap, the oscillators are on the verge of turning around & giving a major bear signal. The chart formation after this past week's action is now looking more like the market is going to go back and retest the lows. NOW... THIS IS NOT NORMAL. THE CHARTS ARE SHOWING ABBERRANT AND ABNORMAL PATTERN FORMATIONS. THIS IS TELLING ME THAT SOME POWERFUL PEOPLE ARE HEAVILY MANIPULATING THIS MARKET TO THE DOWN SIDE.

If these manipulators have that kind of power, then they have the power to solve the little problem of meeting physical gold demand. As I stated on another thread some time back... I suspect that the Feds have called in the Soros's and Bill Gates or anyone else deemed to be attempting to corner the market and were probably warned and maybe even had their lives threatened and told to obey or else. They've probably also been told to back off the demand for physical metal. It's one way to solve the gold crisis or shall I say, turn it into a non-event.

-- Dick Moody (dickmoody@yahoo.com), October 23, 1999.

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Dick, I agree with you - it's not normal, and the stakes are indeed high. OTOH the BIS/EURO group are not exactly pussycats either, perhaps they have more up their sleeve than the Fed does?

You have to admit, 15 ECB's getting together to announce a 5 year moratorioum on gold sales, the WGC statements, Mundell the EURO Goldbug getting the Nobel Prize for Economics - WHAT timing :)

I don't think it's as cut and dried as you think this time Dick.

Following this Gold action will be the currency wars... and the dollar is looking horrendous at the moment.

Interesting times... :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), October 23, 1999.

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I ran the Moody reply past a guy I greatly respect.

Here is his most astute [brilliant IMHO] analysis...

"With all due respect to Mr. Moody, the gold market today is not an easy one to understand. Even Steve Kaplan changed his negativism of the rally to where he felt that it would go down but maybe not so badly. We have all been over the A Priori of this gold market, some not in so many words but nonetheless, we have seen the basis of the gold market's dilemna: A BIS/Euro v US$/IMF battle for reserve currency. (Battle conotes that all players are in it for their lives so may not be the best word, perhaps positioning would be better). From Mundell we can see the movement towards the Euro had its roots back in the early 70's when President Nixon took the US off the gold standard. Europe realized then that the US's (in their opinion) self-serving interests were not those of the Europeans and laid plans to protect themselves. What we are seeing today, from all appearances, is the crescendo of that planning. I don't think they purposefully 'battle' the dollar, rather I believe it is the result of the Euro's existence. The world has room for one 'reserve' curency, not two -- or perhaps it has room for two, but the market share of the one must equalize with the other, which means the $ must lower and the Euro must rise. Because the Euro is less-debt ridden than the dollar, it follows that the Euro should be valued at least twice that of the dollar if not more.

Gold enters into the picture because somehow the US$/IMF faction after 1971 didn't know how to deal with gold. It was obvious that other CB's were keeping their gold. This probably mystified a few US CB heads at the time. In the end, the Jamaica Accords set the record straight for Gold's role: the Mid-East wanted gold if it was going to provide cheap oil. Since oil is what the world used to power itself that by default left gold in the picture, but US$/IMF be damned if they would let it rise, because that would make the dollar look weak and as was seen in 1979-80' when oil did bid for gold in the open. We all saw what the price of gold did very quickly, it went up to $852/ounce.

I believe the events we see unfolding today are the direct result of other countries not wanting the US to continue to push the dollar as the reserve currency and with that all the baggage that comes with it, such as the IMF indebtedness of third world countries, lack of financial discipline, changing foreign policies, lack of committment or long-term goals, politcal expediency instead of long-term currency stability.

The on-going bubble, the use of derivatives, hedge fund irresponsibilties, foreign currency raids by large dollar factions, and US money managers forgetting the role of gold in world financial affairs (as a reserve asset and not a money-earning asset) upset the rest of the world. We are seeing the backlash to some of this irresponsbile behavior. I believe it is that simple.

So to say that Gold is set up for a big bear market contradicts the A Priori spoken of above. I believe the world beyond the US has spoken and said that gold is important to the world and don't mess with it. Should a big push come along to drive gold lower as Mr. Moody infers then I would see the following happening, which would likely reverse the push downwards rapidly:

-- Gold Cartel would be formed (and may already be in the works). -- Oil would bid for gold directly again. -- Some countries would openly sell dollars. -- Some large stock faction unfriendly to the US might prick the stock market bubble in an unfriendly manner. -- OPEC et al would lower production quotas more. -- Who knows what else?

As you can see the world coconstitutes itself in that it is one big family in which all members deny their membership. When one member gets out of line (notwithstanding the power or financial prowess of that member) the rest of the world reacts in a way to bring that party back in the fold. This is what is happening and gold plays a central role because it is believed by most of the family to be the glue that holds all currencies together and because those who have the oil believe that, live by it, and will protect their gold because when their oil is gone, they have to have something to show for it.

When you view the world from the above perspective, you now understand the Ashanti gold stories, you see why Kuwait might put 79 tons in foreign account hands, why Mr. Armstrong bad talked gold so much, and why the US$/IMF faction is delaying the chess moves of the BIS/Euro faction. So Mr. Moody sees but one piece of the puzzle, doesn't have the big picture, and even though might get a short-term down trend correct will be left holding an empty hand as world events slip through his hand like water. IMO."

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P.S.

Downstreamer.

Read and learn. Note the point about oil bidding for gold.

This has always happened, behind the scenes.

The Saudis have an enormous stash of Gold.

How do you think they got this?

-- Andy (AUVENGER@cs.com), October 23, 1999

Answers

Andy,

Wow, what did I do to deserve all this attention? I'm just a an old retired trader in the metals who made some editorial opinions to bring to mind the 20 years + worth of the same old same old goldbug salesmanship. The arguments remain as they always have...oh a few details change here in there but its still basically the same old pitch but with a different wrapper. All this fuss reminds me of a joke my wife likes to tell.

A young blond-haired mother was getting on a city transit bus carrying her baby. As she boarded the bus, the driver commented that she had the ugliest baby he'd ever seen. The young mother was indignant but moved to the back of the crowded bus to find a seat next to a well-dressed businessman. As she was getting situated she told the businessman that the bus driver was extremely rude to her and she felt that she ought to go back up there and give him a piece of her mind but she failed to tell him the reason for his rudeness. The businessman was sympathetic though, and said: "Lady, go right ahead on up there and tell that man off, and I'll look out for your monkey."

Now that joke seems somewhat similar to this here forum discussion. I am just not sure whether I'm the driver or the businessman but I guess Andy, maybe we have one ugly, gold-monkey in those gold price charts.

Now you're 'analyst friend' stated:

"So Mr. Moody sees but one piece of the puzzle, doesn't have the big picture, and even though might get a short-term down trend correct will be left holding an empty hand as world events slip through his hand like water. IMO."

No, Andy, actually I see the ALL of the picture. Your friend apparently either is a gold salesman who's income is derived from selling gold, or he's not seeing the biggest of all pictures. I don't think he sees the picture that stems back to before the dawn of mankind.

Andy, there are powers that be that are beyond national borders. These are the NWO boys. They wield immense power and control. They are in control of gold. They hold a genuine supernatural power over the gold markets. In fact, they take their marching orders from the same source that gave the orders to Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito, Lenin, Stalin, and Chairman Mao, to name a few. They have funded all sides in all wars. Their ultimate source of power is NOT Human and it is extremely EVIL. Yes, I do mean supernatural in the real sense of the term. These fellows have an agenda to establish a one-world government. They will accomplish this and rather soon I suspect. Their plans apparently require gold to remain extremely undervalued. IF, this is so, then they'll be able to easily hold down the price of gold. It's no sweat for them to do so, no matter what the circumstances. They're out to set up the structure for a great world dictatorship that will fulfill Biblical prophecy. This would be a set up for the Antichrist. In reality, they don't realize that they are but pawns of the "beast."

Now, my friend, THAT IS THE BIG PICTURE. That perspective compared to the picture shown by your friend simply tells me that your friend has only a small sliver of the cosmic picture. So what does that have to do with the price of tea in China??? i.e. Gold??? Somebody has exerted great power to manipulate the gold market in the past 30 days. Powers that seem to go beyond normal ability.

Now how does that apply to gold? Well, as I've said before, the most recent price bar charts are showing an unusual pattern formation in the daily price bars. The problem remains that when we look at the daily-price bar charts for December Gold we see a really "ugly" pattern developing in the last month of action. This pattern is (IMHO) clearly showing signs of manipulation. I mean we saw a clear and present "flag" formation developing. By now, that flag should have fully developed and the market should have or be in the process of seeing $380.00 gold (basis Dec of 99 contract). Instead we see it drooping to $300 on an inverted saucer-like pattern of a flag. Now, maybe it's just my old age but I don't quite remember ever seeing a foiled flag pattern take such a shape in any other kind of market price chart. Thus, I assert the manipulation is still present and I suspect if the control is still there now in the wake of the current "crisis" then either the crisis was never as bad as perceived or TPTB have been far far underestimated. I think it's the latter but it might be the former.

These "powers" may eventually allow gold pricing to float higher and may even let it do so this next week. My oscillators are NOT YET signalling a BEAR Market...but the oscillator lines are very close on some oscillators. The actual chart pattern of daily price bars on Dec 99 gold do show a bearish pattern that needs oscillator confirmation IMHO before I'd feel comfortable shorting in here. BUT, I suspect that if Dec gold closes below $300 for 3 days this next week... LOOK OUT DOWNSIDE here we come. Even if it doesn't and does turn and instead it goes up...well I don't think we'll see anything radical in gold price swings this year...though it's still possible to go up to $400 or so...at least technically speaking its still possible. That might change by the end of this week as technicals are constantly shifting.

Remember, these guys make the rules. They have an agenda. They are setting up a socio-economic religious structure to encompass the whole world. They wish to enslave the whole world. They will only partially succeed. They think they're doing us all a favor. They will bring in a "messiah" to save us all from ourselves, unite the world and perhaps protect us from some unknown enemy from beyond planet Earth. In so doing, the price of gold apparently must remain artificially low. Otherwise they'd have let gold run its natural course long ago...or certainly in the past 30 days. Had they not compressed the gold market, gold would likely be at least at the $400 to $500 level by now, and maybe higher.

NOW, of course this all assumes that stories we've heard were actually true and as severe as represented. I question the depth of the problem. I don't question the ability of TPTB to hold down the prices of gold or keep the Dow Jones 30 Industrials from collapsing. As I said, they wield enormous power and are not to be underestimat- ed. Fortunately, they will ultimately fail at the hands of Divine Intervention, but we're a long ways from that point.

For now we're not sure when their little pageant's opening curtain for the first act will take place. It seems as though we're ready for the curtain to rise, but maybe that's just the Mayberry Civic Band I hear warming up... and not the orchestra... I'm not sure, but I thought I saw Barney Fife with a Tuba just a minute ago.

Again, Andy, and all...remember that those promoting/selling gold are just salespeople with something to gain either directly or indirectly from you purchasing gold, or silver or whatever other product they're also pushing. Take what they say with a grain of salt and investi- gate. Go back and read the 15 and 20 year old newsletters and find out how remarkably little they've changed. They're still the same old arguments just dressed in different clothes. All the while, they are failing to realize who's in control and calling the shots.

-- Dick Moody (dickmoody@yahoo.com), October 24, 1999.

Hello Dick!

Thank you so much for such a lengthy reply - I NOW know where you are coming from and we are on the same path, believe me.

"Wow, what did I do to deserve all this attention? I'm just a an old retired trader in the metals who made some editorial opinions to bring to mind the 20 years + worth of the same old same old goldbug salesmanship. The arguments remain as they always have...oh a few details change here in there but its still basically the same old pitch but with a different wrapper. All this fuss reminds me of a joke my wife likes to tell.

A young blond-haired mother was getting on a city transit bus carrying her baby. As she boarded the bus, the driver commented that she had the ugliest baby he'd ever seen. The young mother was indignant but moved to the back of the crowded bus to find a seat next to a well-dressed businessman. As she was getting situated she told the businessman that the bus driver was extremely rude to her and she felt that she ought to go back up there and give him a piece of her mind but she failed to tell him the reason for his rudeness. The businessman was sympathetic though, and said: "Lady, go right ahead on up there and tell that man off, and I'll look out for your monkey."

####### LOL! #######

Now that joke seems somewhat similar to this here forum discussion. I am just not sure whether I'm the driver or the businessman but I guess Andy, maybe we have one ugly, gold-monkey in those gold price charts.

Now you're 'analyst friend' stated:

"So Mr. Moody sees but one piece of the puzzle, doesn't have the big picture, and even though might get a short-term down trend correct will be left holding an empty hand as world events slip through his hand like water. IMO."

No, Andy, actually I see the ALL of the picture. Your friend apparently either is a gold salesman who's income is derived from selling gold, or he's not seeing the biggest of all pictures. I don't think he sees the picture that stems back to before the dawn of mankind.

####### Whoaa. Hold your horses. He is NOT a salesman, and has no axe to grind as regards running up the POG (as I have been accused of trying to do many times on this forum)... #######

Andy, there are powers that be that are beyond national borders. These are the NWO boys. They wield immense power and control. They are in control of gold. They hold a genuine supernatural power over the gold markets. In fact, they take their marching orders from the same source that gave the orders to Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito, Lenin, Stalin, and Chairman Mao, to name a few. They have funded all sides in all wars. Their ultimate source of power is NOT Human and it is extremely EVIL. Yes, I do mean supernatural in the real sense of the term. These fellows have an agenda to establish a one-world government. They will accomplish this and rather soon I suspect. Their plans apparently require gold to remain extremely undervalued. IF, this is so, then they'll be able to easily hold down the price of gold. It's no sweat for them to do so, no matter what the circumstances. They're out to set up the structure for a great world dictatorship that will fulfill Biblical prophecy. This would be a set up for the Antichrist. In reality, they don't realize that they are but pawns of the "beast."

####### OK. Now I get where you are coming from and I agree with you 100%. I have posted (and of course been ridiculed) many many times on this forum on these matters. I have read widely on this subject and listened to a lot of folks, done my research and asked many questions... #######

Now, my friend, THAT IS THE BIG PICTURE. That perspective compared to the picture shown by your friend simply tells me that your friend has only a small sliver of the cosmic picture.

####### i will forward this to him and let him answer that :) #######

So what does that have to do with the price of tea in China??? i.e. Gold??? Somebody has exerted great power to manipulate the gold market in the past 30 days. Powers that seem to go beyond normal ability.

Now how does that apply to gold? Well, as I've said before, the most recent price bar charts are showing an unusual pattern formation in the daily price bars. The problem remains that when we look at the daily-price bar charts for December Gold we see a really "ugly" pattern developing in the last month of action. This pattern is (IMHO) clearly showing signs of manipulation. I mean we saw a clear and present "flag" formation developing. By now, that flag should have fully developed and the market should have or be in the process of seeing $380.00 gold (basis Dec of 99 contract). Instead we see it drooping to $300 on an inverted saucer-like pattern of a flag. Now, maybe it's just my old age but I don't quite remember ever seeing a foiled flag pattern take such a shape in any other kind of market price chart. Thus, I assert the manipulation is still present and I suspect if the control is still there now in the wake of the current "crisis" then either the crisis was never as bad as perceived or TPTB have been far far underestimated. I think it's the latter but it might be the former.

These "powers" may eventually allow gold pricing to float higher and may even let it do so this next week. My oscillators are NOT YET signalling a BEAR Market...but the oscillator lines are very close on some oscillators. The actual chart pattern of daily price bars on Dec 99 gold do show a bearish pattern that needs oscillator confirmation IMHO before I'd feel comfortable shorting in here. BUT, I suspect that if Dec gold closes below $300 for 3 days this next week... LOOK OUT DOWNSIDE here we come. Even if it doesn't and does turn and instead it goes up...well I don't think we'll see anything radical in gold price swings this year...though it's still possible to go up to $400 or so...at least technically speaking its still possible. That might change by the end of this week as technicals are constantly shifting.

Remember, these guys make the rules. They have an agenda. They are setting up a socio-economic religious structure to encompass the whole world. They wish to enslave the whole world. They will only partially succeed. They think they're doing us all a favor. They will bring in a "messiah" to save us all from ourselves, unite the world and perhaps protect us from some unknown enemy from beyond planet Earth. In so doing, the price of gold apparently must remain artificially low. Otherwise they'd have let gold run its natural course long ago...or certainly in the past 30 days. Had they not compressed the gold market, gold would likely be at least at the $400 to $500 level by now, and maybe higher.

####### I go along with your scenario and what you are saying. But one has to ask the question, why do the Illuminati WANT the POG so low? I think I know the answer (in fact we all do if we trust and listen to our innermost intuition)... what is your take on this Dick? #######

NOW, of course this all assumes that stories we've heard were actually true and as severe as represented. I question the depth of the problem. I don't question the ability of TPTB to hold down the prices of gold or keep the Dow Jones 30 Industrials from collapsing. As I said, they wield enormous power and are not to be underestimat- ed. Fortunately, they will ultimately fail at the hands of Divine Intervention, but we're a long ways from that point.

For now we're not sure when their little pageant's opening curtain for the first act will take place. It seems as though we're ready for the curtain to rise, but maybe that's just the Mayberry Civic Band I hear warming up... and not the orchestra... I'm not sure, but I thought I saw Barney Fife with a Tuba just a minute ago.

Again, Andy, and all...remember that those promoting/selling gold are just salespeople with something to gain either directly or indirectly from you purchasing gold, or silver or whatever other product they're also pushing. Take what they say with a grain of salt and investi- gate. Go back and read the 15 and 20 year old newsletters and find out how remarkably little they've changed. They're still the same old arguments just dressed in different clothes. All the while, they are failing to realize who's in control and calling the shots.

####### Point taken. I feel that this time is different, that we are in THE END GAME (in many more ways than one), but, again, point very well taken...

Thanks again Dick for your thoughts. I feel you are 95% correct. however, if you think about it, those forces that believe that the POG should be set free, are by default anti-Illuminati, no???

Count me in!

Cheers!

#######

-- Andy (AUVENGER@cs.com), October 24, 1999.

By the way Dick this is FOA's latest thinking...

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FOA (10/23/99; 17:01:18MDT - Msg ID:17268)

One long post.

ALL:

I also read the article in Barron's offering Mr. Gartman's views. Thanks to poster "Number 6" for placing some of it here (also welcome to you, sir). It is indeed a benefit for all of us to find the gold story becoming more mainstream. Slowly the future effects of the ECB deal is sinking in. Still, I think most all established analyst are going to be very surprised at how this eventually plays out.

As gold begins it's rise, the numbers will verify to many traders that another bull market is intact. Each in their own way will attempt to gain from the price run. That is until the price starts to run "out of sight"! You see, the gold market began to change back in the late 80s and early 90s and that evolution has shaken everyone that followed it.

Too date anyone that has invested in gold using the "traditional" vehicles has been "dead wrong"! If I had to guess, it would not surprise me to find that 95% of these players have lost their shirts on a "net basis over 10 years". Even the shorts lost money as none of them saw gold ever falling so far. Often switching sides to catch the turn-a-round that never came.

Truly, investing in gold "as an industry" or "as a long leverage play" was not the game to be in recently nor will it be for the future. Because gold has entered a new era that will eventually find it being held as "private money" in the form of "real wealth". Something our "extended generation family" has never seen or understood. More on this in a minute.

Onward:

A very large group of world investors have been buying physical gold for many years. These people have been "dead right" on "their reasons" to buy gold. Another has said that "events will prove the wisdom of their ways". I agree with this even more so as real actions slowly prove their assessment.

On the other hand a very broad spectrum of "gold bulls" can be seen on the side of the GATA group. They believed in gold as an inflation hedge and a good "supply / demand" investment situation. I'm sure most of them own bullion to some extent, but am guessing that most of their "working money" was involved on the industry side (gold shares). Truly, this segment of the community has found their investments on the wrong side of a political currency transition that was destine to change the gold markets for the rest of our lives.

Most everyone that analysed gold from a "dollar devaluation" standpoint was sure that gold (and the producing industry they brought into) would soar from such an event. Few could accept that for the dollar to fall from world reserve status would also require the total destruction of the "dollar paper gold market". Nor could they imagine how the years preceding this would see the world flooded with "dollar paper gold contracts". Yet, as this progressed over many years we saw how the political manipulation that GATA rightly exposes was being used in a way that will "eventually" destroy the confidence in the dollar. For truly, in today's world, if one loses the ability to contract for gold in us currency then the reasons for holding dollars at all begin to fade. From a country that runs a never ending trade balance deficit, foreign dollars and the interest they earn become a purposeless hold. If dollars can never flow on a "net" basis into the US in a trade surplus situation, the end result must be a bubble of dollars with no home or value.

Political currency war as seen in simple sequence:

Build a bubble within the dollar gold market by selling paper gold far and wide. By selling paper derivatives of gold we free up official and private physical stocks of bullion to quench the demand for coins, bars and fabrication deficit. Because the world gold market is priced in modern terms by "derivative contract", flood the paper market and drive the price lower. In an never ending circle, the market expands in ownership as the price falls.

"Coat Tail" this process on the IMF/Dollar need to lower gold to support it's currency with a low inflation perception and the political will to proceed is reinforced. For those major bullion buyers of the world (oil) that would object to this, build a new currency upon the standard of a future "free world" gold price that can become a trade settlement reserve item.

Once the "timeline" of the dollar is near the end of it's mathematical ability to expand world trade, destroy this "new fractional reserve gold market" by adopting "self liquidating rules" into the official sector lending game. With this turn, oil and gold prices begin a dollar rise from which there is no return. Eventually, the world gold markets, as built in dollar reserve contract terms can no longer function. As events slowly sink in, all foreign held dollars (mostly held in US treasury form) are liquidated from dollar terms by buying physical gold and Euros. For without contract gold, in functioning form, physical must eventually be bid at any price!

In real time production, we see this beginning in the US fed buying US treasuries almost everyday in an attempt to stop the rise in rates. A rise that comes without inflation. Truly, a rise that comes from "reserve currency competition".

Onward:

For today, the modern gold investor faces a dilemma in concept! None of them have ever seen a gold market that finds it's total demand coming from buying "physical gold" as a "wealth money" asset! Buying that arrives in official as well as private sources. In their (gold bugs) limited experience with so called "free market gold" dating from 1975, physical gold buying was never the full price driver. The price always rose from, at best a 50/50 mix of paper leverage buying and physical buying.

Nor can they envision gold rising so much, so fast, even before dollar price inflation takes hold. Our total "real life" education about gold prices ($100 to $800) were all explained as "dollar price inflation" dynamics. Never was it approached as gold becoming a new parallel "private reserve asset". Just like stocks, bonds and currencies.

Add to this, the very real prospects of their "gold price making markets" falling into complete turmoil and dysfunction. Every Western investor knows how to convert and spend their stock and bond portfolio. Yet, the concept of actually selling some personal gold to a private dealer, without an official quoted market, is seen as an "end time event".

Thoughts!

During the next five years, physical gold is going to outlast and out perform not only the current world derivative gold market, but outlive a large portion of the stockholders equity in most gold mines. During the "death throes" of the gold marketplace, the dollar price could be all over the map! Simply put, most short term traders and long term paper gold (gold stocks included) investors will be eaten alive as we witness a transition unlike anything ever seen. How can one be ready for this? Some people are 80% gold bullion, 20% in the few largest unhedged mines (only 3 or 4 exist) and hold plenty of cash that is expected to devalue greatly. Their mindset is ready for gold to be priced somewhere between 0 and infinity! In other words, gold in their eyes will outlive it all.

Some writers do a wonderful job of proposing that gold is dead and holds little more use than a tradable commodity. The most eloquent poster, Mr.Yellin of Troy, has produced many fine articles that expound the current feelings of Western life as expressed in it's need and view of gold. Still, all of these concepts were built using the "American Experience" of the last hundred years or so. I submit that this has been little more than an "experiment in progress" that only now comes to completion. In the end, the laws of nature always control out destiny and the outcome is distilled into this common reality:

"The only real earthly wealth is one we touched in person as all honour is fleeting"

Further:

Is this how it works?

When a major Middle East oil producer lends it's last 79 tonne of gold into the marketplace, one should know he will get that gold back. After all they are not like you or I or the average globe trotting hedge fund. They are the oil producers for the next hundred years!

As I offered before, that gold was loaned for a "HUGE" concession that will never be made public. For the marketplace to approach them is indicative of the massive strains in the lending arena. Because these people will not lend "CHEAP"!

Understand the dynamics that are now in effect. Somewhere gold lenders and gold contract derivative holders are exercising the very limits of their "fine print" to get their gold back in "allocated form". As the brokers in between these deals have lost the ability to "control" their counterparties, their firms must use their own capital to buy physical gold and blow up the price or "borrow" it in order to cover their old lenders. It's no contest and is done "off the retail lending market" so as to not gun the rental rates. In the past, the news of 79 tonnes lent into the marketplace was an announcement of fresh supply to lower the gold price. Today, these announcements are for the purpose of replacing defaulted loans. It's important to understand that on an ongoing basis, these new loans do change everything as the broker now must eventually cover this new loan "from it's own book". The present fear is that gold lenders that cannot regain their bullion will start buying on the physical marketplace as they call their lawyers to discuss just compensation. This is the only kind of fear that will compel some "expensive deal making" with people that usually don't lend.

Also:

Every central bank in the world is looking at it's reserve dollar holdings and watching this latest gold spike. I can tell you that they are closely analysing this new risk because the potential exists to cut them out of the gold market at what was perceived low prices. As the Euro gains use, dollar reserves will become a huge dead liability. Especially if the BIS is stopping inter bank gold sales! Truly, for China the risk is clear. I expect them to become more active in buying "defaulted gold commitments" that can function except for the lost margin, even if the price paid is much higher than market. The recent deal making by a large Arabian investor will lead the way.

In some ways this action is a precursor of a two tiered market for gold. With future delivered "higher priced street gold" taking the form of "defaulted new mine production". We shall see.

Thanks for reading and discussing FOA

-- Andy (AUVENGER@cs.com), October 24, 1999.

Andy,

Re: your queries...as follows:

Andy's Statement: "OK. Now I get where you are coming from and I agree with you 100%. I have posted (and of course been ridiculed) many many times on this forum on these matters. I have read widely on this subject and listened to a lot of folks, done my research and asked many questions... ####### "

My Response: I'm sure you have, and I've not intended to criticize you for your posts but rather to provide a positive counterbalance to avoid having others rush off the deep end without recognizing or fulling understanding what they're doing. An investor needs to always know the central whats and whys of making an invest ment decision and all of its positive and negative ramifications. I fear that some don't.

Next Point by Andy: ##### I go along with your scenario and what you are saying. But one has to ask the question, why do the Illuminati WANT the POG so low? I think I know the answer (in fact we all do if we trust and listen to our innermost intuition)... what is your take on this Dick? #######

My Response:

Honestly, I'm not sure that any of us really know and that we can only guess. Ultimately it is a means for them to seize as much power and control over as many assets as possible. There has been some speculation on this in regards to the history of gold that goes way back to ancient Babylon and the Sumerian texts. It's too complicated to go into here but it might have a "big picture' bearing on the issue of gold today. Just the same, I suspect that these folks believe that low gold prices enable them to better achieve their ultimate goals in a timely manner. They seem to be operating on a time line. Now at some point, they may let the POG run wild. But right now, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Andy's final comment:

".... however, if you think about it, those forces that believe that the POG should be set free, are by default anti-Illuminati, no???"

My response:

Well, they might be perhaps, but then again, the way these guys play both sides of the coin, who knows?

My further comments.

The FOA post was indeed rather interesting. There is definitely more going on here than meets the eye.

-- Dick Moody (dickmoody@yahoo.com), October 24, 1999.

Why now? The 12th planet is not due back for -- what -- ANOTHER 1000 years? (My recollection -- I could be off 500 years either way -- of Sitchin's reckoning.)

-- A (A@AisA.com), October 24, 1999.

A,

I thought it was due back, with Annunaki in tow, just about now... :)

Dick,

Thanks - and I do realise that they play both sides of the coin, and when they flip it is is also possible that it will land balanced on it's rim!

You said,

"Ultimately it is a means for them to seize as much power and control over as many assets as possible. There has been some speculation on this in regards to the history of gold that goes way back to ancient Babylon and the Sumerian texts. It's too complicated to go into here but it might have a "big picture' bearing on the issue of gold today."

I am intrigued by this. Would you have any links or sources for futher reading.

The old legends say that man was created as genetically-engineered Annunaki if you like, in order to mine gold - If you ever read "Gods Of The New Millenium" by Alan F. Alford he goes into great detail about these matters, about the fact that we humans only use about 5- 10% of our brain capacity (less in some posters' cases...) - why is that? Lots of unanswered questions, that ARE being answered today by the likes of David Icke, Alan Alford, Lloyd Pye, Zachariah Sitchin and others.

Thanks Dick.

-- Andy (AUVENGER@cs.com), October 24, 1999.

Andy,

Now we're probably getting way off topic, but I was referencing Sitchin's works regarding the Anunnaki and the Sumerian legends that stated the Anunnaki came here to mine gold for atmospheric applications on their home planet, Nibiru, which the Sumerian's called the 12th planet...or now, the 10th planet as two others were subsequently destroyed in cosmic catastrophes.

Now we have MSNBC reporting a few days ago that astronomers believe there is another planet orbiting in our solar system...here's the link:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/320182.asp

Also related story at Sightings website with a follow up Press Release from The Royal Astronomical Society in Britain... http://www.sightings.com/ufo5/nib.htm

Next is a statement from Zecharia Sitchin himself regarding this elusive 12th planet described by the ancient Sumerians. It is found on the Sightings website:

http://www.sightings.com/ufo5/12thplanet.htm

I think Sitchin has stumbled onto some interesting material, but I disagree with some of his conclusions about who the Anunnaki in fact were or are. I suspect that they are intelligent life forms referred to in the Biblical passages as beings that started a cosmic war against the Creator of the Universe. I think these are the folks spoken of in the Biblical prophecies that will bring on an evil empire in the guise of a New World Order. Perhaps their ultimate goal is two fold. One is to enslave mankind and the other to grab for all the gold they can. And of course the third is to continue their war against the Creator of the Universe. IMHO. AND it is just a theory. But its interesting how some things seem to be coming together.

Here is another interesting link to an alternate conclusion relating to Sitchin's research conclusions. It is an organization run by Chuck Missler has spent 30 years in the strategic arena: for the US defense establishment, the intelligence community, and international corporate development. Chuck has also consulted with many national corporations on international strategy; he has served on a dozen Boards of Directors of publicly traded companies (he served as Chairman/CEO of 6 of them; 4 were contractors to the Department of Defense). So he's not a wacko moron. The following is a link to one short article from a whole conference on many of the issues raised by Zecharia Sitchin's works.

http://www.khouse.org/noah.html

Now if this is indeed the case, that the Anunnaki are indeed what the Bible refers to as fallen angels and they are predicted to return and set up one world government just like in ancient Babylon with Nimrod, And... IF... they are still in need of gold, then their fellow traveler humans might be setting up our world to give the gold to these folks for who knows what in return. I might be way off base here as I'm just speculating aloud. Who knows? But, you gotta admit, its an interesting hypothesis and would make for a great Hollywood movie.

Interesting stuff to ponder, but its getting way off topic from Y2K and off into the netherland regions of hypotheses and speculations.

-- Dick Moody (dickmoody@yahoo.com), October 24, 1999.

Thanks Dick. I think I posted the sightings and BBC stuff about a new 12th planet being discovered... a little similar to the situation with Isaac Asimov's "Nightfall"...

I've heard of Chuck Missler - I will follow up on your links...

By the way, one book that comes highly recommended, is "Alien Agenda" by Jim Marrs... a very thought-provoking book.

Also, new research abouht gold being taken "medicinally" - somewhat similar to colloidal silver... way out there though. The "effects" that is :) Again, the effects allegedly experienced tie in with Biblical tales...

It is also not just synchronicity that nearly all ancient prophecies, from the Hopi to Nostradamus to Mother Shipton to Edgar Cayce to Fatima etc. etc. seem to point to THESE times that we are entering now... there are NO coincidences :)

later,

-- Andy (AUVENGER@cs.com), October 24, 1999.

[Source : NetWit list..] Subject: ILLUMINATI

ILLUMINATI -- To the tune of "Eleanor Rigby" 11-07-88 Steve Jackson, Joe Vail, Creede Lambard

Illuminati... They put a thing made of tinfoil on top of my door... What is it for? Illuminati... Shooting a ray at my cornflakes to make them turn green... What does it mean? The Illuminati... They're watching me, I know. The Illuminati... They're everywhere I go.

Illuminati... Doing unspeakable things in the night to a cow... Where are they now? Illuminati... Sent an impostor in place of the Popsicle man... What is their plan? The Illuminati... They're watching me, I know. The Illuminati... They're everywhere I go.

Illuminati... They cancelled Star Trek, The Fonz, and My Mother, the Car... Are they bizarre? You can't escape them; Even if you take a plane to Nepal or Peru... They'll be there, too... The Illuminati... They're watching me, I know. The Illuminati... They're everywhere I go.

I know that they know all about me... They know that I know all about them...

Illuminati... Hide their assassins' instructions in newspaper text... Who will be next? They're all around us... Underline every third word in the Times and you'll see... How can it be? The Illuminati... They're watching me, I know. The Illuminati... They're everywhere I go.

They're in the attic and the cellar... Bigger than Hunt or Rockefeller...

Illuminati... Go through my garbage and count all the pop bottles there... Why do they care? They're out to get me... They're fluoridating my water from their UFO... What do they know? The Illuminati... They're everywhere, I see. The Illuminati... And no one knows but me.

------- teehee.

-- number six (Iam_not_a_number@hotmail.com), October 24, 1999.

Hey - good one John - LOL!!!

-- Andy (AUVENGER@cs.com), October 24, 1999.

number six- ROFLMAO!!! Where did you find this?

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), October 24, 1999.

Gia, I found it by doing a search for "subgenius bob"..(on that "looksmart" piece-of-shit search engine.) I was gonna post some of that Bob-worship ranty stuff that someone else used to always post, because I was just wierded-out by Dick's "The-Powers-That-Be are really satanists with a hotline to old Nick" theory of global politics. That, plus Sitchkin on the same thread, was a bit much for my sanity buffers.

-- number six (Iam_not_a_number@hotmail.com), October 25, 1999.