Fear the United Nations "will initiate an armed takeover of the United States"?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

It appears we do live in interesting times, this story has been out in several incarnations today and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger......


Reuters 7 UPI

FBI warns of Y2K race violence

Updated 6:20 PM ET October 20, 1999

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Federal Bureau of Investigation said Wednesday it was warning local police about the danger of apocalyptic violence by white supremacist groups spurred by the dawn of the year 2000.

In a statement, the FBI said it had wrapped up "Project Megiddo," a study of potential crimes "by individuals or domestic groups who attach special significance to the year 2000."

The study highlights the dangers of fringe white supremacists "who seek to initiate a race war," it said. It was being distributed to law enforcement personnel nationwide.

The project was named for the ancient battleground in Israel associated with Armageddon, the biblical scene of a final battle between the forces of good and evil, prophesied to occur at the end of world.

"The report is intended to...(warn) of the unique challenges that may be presented by extremists motivated by millennial agendas," the FBI said.

The report also cited a Year 2000-related threat from those who fear the United Nations "will initiate an armed takeover of the United States" and set up a "One World Government."

FBI Director Louis Freeh told Congress earlier this year that the possible targets of such groups included Jews, non-whites and their supposed "establishment allies, i.e. the federal government."

In its statement, the FBI said it was aware that some militia groups had moved to purge violent extremists. "These elements are often very small cells or lone actors," it said.

-- Helium (Heliumavid@yahoo.com), October 20, 1999


>The report also cited a Year 2000-related threat from those who fear the United Nations "will initiate an armed takeover of the United States" and set up a "One World Government."

Wow, I didn't know I was racist! I have to thank the FBI for showing me that deeper part of myself that I must be in denial about. How could I have been so blind? Of course, it's all clear to me now. If I object to globalism: UN troops training on US soil, US soldiers courtmartialed for refusing to serve under UN commands, the confiscation of US public lands for management by the UN, subordination of laws made by Congress to unratified globalist treaties signed by the Executive, the presence of representatives of elite delta-force-type troops from many nations at Waco, etc., etc., etc., then I don't just hold a conservative political opinion - I'm a RACIST TERRORIST THREAT! I suppose rounding us up in the aftermath of Y2k is easier than trying to answer, in public debate, the question of why we are selling out our sovereignty to the super-rich who control the international banks and the UN.

My black, vietnamese, chinese and jewish friends will be suprised to hear that I'm a racist. I don't know how to break it to them...


-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 20, 1999.

Relax, Liberty. Not every frothing paranoid is a racist. The FBI isn't talking about you.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), October 20, 1999.



"Project Megiddo" - NOW THAT'S A CLEVER NAME !!!

Megiddo: an ancient city in N Israel, on the plain of Edraelon:

site of many battles; often identified with the Biblical Armageddon.



-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 20, 1999.

Liberty, the first step to recovery is the recognition of the problem. I have to go through this with my wife of 20 years who is Panamanian Hispanic. I never revealed my secret racism to her. (Or to myself for that matter.

Praise be to the fedgoons for heading us in the right direction.


-- Man From Uncle 1999 (mfu1999@hotmail.com), October 20, 1999.

I really like this Liberty guy, he is true to his name. Informed, articulate and with a sense of humor.....Liberty, you sure you aren't one of the founding fathers reincarnated?

You lead and I will follow!

-- Jack (mercer@usa.net), October 20, 1999.

Agree, Jack, he sounds like the kind of fellow you damn well better suck up to if you know what's good for you.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), October 20, 1999.

Jack, you are too kind.

Flint, you are not.


-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 20, 1999.

Liberty, Couldn't agree more.

When I was in Las Vegas this year, a Law enforcement officer of some 30 years told me that there are "122 Civil Unrest Centers" throughout our nation. He went on to say these centers will probably be our "closed military bases."

This summer I've met 3 people in law enforcement who said "We're going to have civil unrest."

Flint, people like you remind me of the people who lived in Noah's day. They did't UNDERSTAND UNTIL Noah entered the ark.

-- eyes wide open (djwolf@lanset.com), October 20, 1999.

eyes posted-

"122 Civil Unrest Centers" throughout our nation. He went on to say these centers will probably be our "closed military bases."

Circle the wagons pilgrims! "Hey Pa, how come those indians are wearing khaki?"

Could be those are 122 cities, huh? "Circle the city cowboys!"

But wait you say, if the indians are the cowboys are the indians, and they actually look just like the pilgrims, and the pilgrims just want to be left alone.. oh oh I'm getting one of those headaches again.

-- spun@lright (mikeymac@uswest.net), October 21, 1999.

Hey Flint, howzit? I have to take your tack on this one. Look guys get your facts straight. What I am seeing is paranoia feeding paranoia here. You bet your sweet ass the FBI is right, there is going to be civil unrest. How bad is anyone's guess but the whole magic 2000 number thing is GOING to bring the looneys out. Now today you don't want them (fedgoons I believe you called them) to prepare for it. Today you hate them because they are trying to prepare to fight crime. Yesterday (or was it last week) you thought they should be out there taking care of all the bad guys. Which do you want.

Flint to be honest with you there are more and more ringers on these groups each day. About a third of them are Feds trying to dig in and discover intelligence information, another third of them are the very racists and facists that the Fed is afraid will be causing problems, finally there is about a third that are just plain nuts.

You know the more I read this crap, the more I think we need to test them at birth and if their IQ is below 60 throw them into the sea.

Thanks Bill Gates for making it so easy for anyone to use a computer.


-- Michael Erskine (osiris@urbanna.net), October 21, 1999.

So Mike, which third are you ?

-- George in Ne. Pa. (grc0702@aol.,com), October 21, 1999.

Michael Erskine,

You are such an assimilated, lukewarm American. You assume and even demand the government to protect you 24 hours like a surrogate mommy. If you have ever read and understand the writings of the founding fathers you might get the idea of self-rule and self- government.

I have a resposibility as a "free American" to be concerned about governing myself first. This includes dignity, integrity, sound moral judgement and self-defense if necessary.

The reason people in here bark about increased government intrusion is because most here understand this concept of self-government. I don't need military troops walking my streets to keep me safe. In the event of an emergency I can handle thugs and looters running the neighborhood by standing within my own "sovereign" home with a 12 gauge shotgun, properly state licensed 9mm beretta, etc. and defend my family from unlawful entry. What I can't handle is an emergency situation where troops march around with APC's, Military assault rifles and a national leader that thinks his newly found power "feels pretty cool". The only defense against this is an armed society of 10's or 100's of millions. An armed society of responsible, law abiding, character induced lovers of a God-given right to liberty.

You on the other hand are governed by politicians. Your moral compass is derived by what a Congress passes as lawful or unlawful, you want to take and take from the government and scream "but I deserve it". You expect for any uncertainty to be resolved by the government whether for protection or other needs.

But if you decided to live a moral and just life according to a religous affiliation or simply by seeing the beauty of right over wrong you would wake up finding yourself ALREADY law abiding. Similarly, if you decided to excercise your second amendment rights in posession of arms, coupled with common sense in dealing with downtown streets, locking doors, being respectful to your fellow citizen, etc you would find your government "need" seriously diminished.

I am not an anarchist in any sense of the term. There are proper roles and places for government institutions and services. I am only saying that if individuals would go back to "self-governing", a prerequisite to democracy, they would look around and see a lesser need for many pieces of modern US Government.


-- Jack (mercer@usa.net), October 21, 1999.

Yee Haw, Jack! You're living in the wild, wild west boy!!

All jokes aside, my greatest fear is that there is no place to run to anymore. Remember Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone? When there were too many people and too many rules, they just packed up and moved further west. Freedom loving Americans everywhere would surely love to be able to still do that. That is why we fear a one world government. There would be no place to run to.

I have had that discussion with many folks and they simply don't understand why a "civilized" one world government wouldn't be the answer to all of their problems. They really don't get it... If you EVER disagree with the rulers, where do you turn to? Where can you go?

And THAT'S why I am scared of the New World Order. And why YOU should be too folks....

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), October 21, 1999.

i am still PMS. this blows my mind. this country is crazy these days.

on one hand--here is the FBI making suspects of anyone who believes the bible and hates the UN (for good reason I must add). is the FBI truly describing some paranoid groups that REALLY will try to make armageddon happen or are they talking about you and I? Is this just an excuse to rouse law abiding citizens or make the police suspect of anyone who happens to be a believer? this "perceived threat" is plastered all over the papers.

then on the other hand--yesterday I saw some of the most spellbinding testimony on partial birth abortion and the baby body parts industry that is real and absolutely hideous. yet not a single word on it in the paper today from what i can see.

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), October 21, 1999.

Remarks like these, coming from the FBI, smell like "soothe the groups we truly fear", to me. Who are they trying to kid????????

I'm so tired of my government insulting my intelligence on a daily basis. They don't have any concerns about the black/hispanic/asian street gangs/mafia? They just want the nation to know they have their eye on "fringe white supremicists who 'seek to initiate a race war'".

A RACE WAR??????? A few mentally ill extremists versus how many thousands of ethnic gangs who display on a DAILY basis, a desire to murder each other and have untold grievances with white people?????

OHHHHHHH, right. Allow me to flip my kilt at ya......FBI.

(keep your eye on THIS........)

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), October 21, 1999.

Hey Mike,

Since no one has an I.Q. of 60 at birth, I guess you're advocating the extermination of the human race. Duh

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), October 21, 1999.

Tell you folks what you really whipped my butt. This is my contrite apology. I was an intelligence collector and analyst for more than a decade. I then became a systems analyst and hold a degree in computer science. As far as being an assimilated, lukewarm, American, I personally feel VERY luke warm to a governmental system which seems to be having a very difficult time being honest even with itself, let alone honest with it's people. As to demanding the govenrment take care of me, mister I spent my time taking care of the people of this country and never got or expected a damn thing in return. Why don't you tell me what you have done? So you and your twelve and nine are going to keep your family safe, eh? I am really impressed. Behind me sit half a dozen shotguns and rifles, another half a dozen black power weapons (including flinters), three compound bows, and three traditional long bows I built myself. In my yard is a sailboat I built myself. I have spent time living in the field on every continet except Antartica. I have seen places where the rule of government broke down and it is clear to me that you and your nine and twelve are in for a rude awakening. More so if you can misjudge what I have said so completely.

Which third am I in? I have been in the first two groups. I was once an agent collecting intelligence, at some point the stresses of that task put me into the second group. I have always had an IQ higher than 60. Having raised three children I learned long ago that children are indeed born with intelligence. What would you propose, that children start at zero? Duh, then where do they get the raw capacity to learn a language (with NO frame of reference) in one year? I was ninteen when the military sent me to Presidio of Monterey to learn Korean. I already had studied three languages, it took me a full year of really hard work to learn the language. Yet you would tell me that children are born with no intelligence? This lack of the ability to reason "simply from the simple" is what worries me about people in our society. In my opinion it is the most dangerous element in the y2k scenarios.

For those of you who care to stop and think a moment. What you see here is the surface, it is not what is really happening. What is really happening on this forum is simple. If I were on the "inside" which I am not, I would be probing and poking around on this forum looking of hints and clues as to who will be doing what. If they are looking for unbalanced people some will turn up here. The real crackpot extremists will be looking for potential recruits here and with very careful screening can easily make anonymous contact with their potential recruits to evaluate them. Any government that believes it is in their interest to destablize the American system, will have people posting here and everywhere else they can find a forum. They will be posting all manner of "evidence" against the system, trying to suck in the turkeys. If I were a true "survivalist" I would be reading these groups and remain silent. You would never know I was here, because that is how the true "survivalist" survives and NOT by his twelve and nine. Obviously I am not a true "survivalist". My point is this, as we play out the end game, things will become less and less what they seem. It is already difficult to determine who is pushing what agenda. I urge you to be certain of the facts you claim are facts. Don't publish rumor. Document what you have to say. If you are reading these forums, discount that which can be discounted, be skeptical, be wary. Don't buy into the bullshit flowing from any camp. Half of what you see here is unsubtianted rubbish. The best propaganda is that which is emotionally charged and undocumentable, all governments, organizations, and agencies, whether legitimate or not, engage in propaganda. Some even call it marketing.

As I said elsewhere, there are those who would have you believe that you have been disenfranchised when in actual fact you have abdicated your right to direct the course of this nation. That abdication came long ago and was accomplished by the simple failure of significant portions of the population to go to the voting booth. Now those same people who have the mouth to complain, but who never had the courage to vote, want you to prepare to take up arms against your country. In other words, Even though they didn't do a damn thing to stop or cure the ills of this country, they did not get their way so now they want to be in charge. These fools would have you believe that there is something nobel about people killing one another in your streets. These people would have you believe that your only course of action is to prepare to stand in your doorway with your twelve and nine. Trust me, as one who has had to clear a building. That is the LAST thing you want to do. Sure be ready, but don't look forward to it.

I say that there are better ways open still. Suppose that y2k really is as bad as many expect it may be? Soon there will be an election, this November many county and state offices come up for election in many places. If y2k really turns out to be that bad, these county and local governments are going to become much more important to your day to day existance than they have for years. What are you going to do on election day, are you going to sit here with the whiners or get off your ass and go try to elect someone who will be usefull next year.

As to Jeffersons allusion to each man "governing his own farm", here! here! I am a libertarian. I believe in minimal government, just as did the founding fathers. I ascribe to the theory that if we all lived "Godly" lives we would be living in heaven. Unfortunatly, we will not all live Godly lives and that is part and parcel the state of man. Those who want to tell me how to live, are dangerous to my liberty. (and being a Christian) I say, Christians who want to decide for me, how I should live are judgemental pains in my *** but Christians who want to enforce their views upon my life, are out of step with our God. It is not the right of any man to impose his will on another; however, it is frequently his desire.

I believe in self-reliance and also upon helping my fellow man. The reason the government has grown so huge with these damned entitlements programs is simple. The Christians (of which I am one) failed in their duty to lift up the poor. This left a void for politicians to use to collect votes. They grabbed the reins, the Christians sighed a sigh of relief and the problem remains to this day.

The reason our system has not addressed the y2k problem is simple, five years ago, perhaps even ten years ago, when the issue first received general notice. Most people sat on their ass in front of the television and totally blew it off. The press under-reported it, management world wide pushed the expensive decisions ahead to the next guy who would have the shop and last of all because the people of this country did not care enough to get their asses out there to the ballot box and elect people that would make the hard choices to fix the probem. Everyone wants to complian about the roof, that it is leaking, but nobody wants to do the maintenance that is required to keep the roof tight.

Want a dire prediction, "Prophecy comes true, God spews a luke warm people out of his mouth." My friends we are here because we chose to come here. We could have stopped it at numerous points along the way. Unfortunatly, Monday night football, the latest movie, the church social, all of the wonderfull things that this great nation and God's great blessing upon it brought us, became more important to us than maintaining the infrastructure which MUST remain in place for such a nation to continue to prosper and grow. We are here because we chose to let them take us here... and now these folks would have you believe that the system itself is somehow inherently evil and has done all this by itself and without our approval... Crap, wake up America.

-- Michael Erskine (osiris@urbanna.net), October 21, 1999.

-- Michael Erskine -- AMEN!

-- Wild Celt (silent@lurker.com), October 21, 1999.


You said you were once in the intel field? No wonder you got(or were thrown) out. I can see how a person could misconstrew the meaning of a paragraph, but how in the world can you misinterpet a single sentence of mine?

You said I.Q.

I said I.Q.

There is a standardized I.Q. test, and if you can show me a newborn that can get past question one, I'll shit myself.

I NEVER said newborns aren't smart or don't have intellegence-YOU DID, in your misguided response. I just stated that they can't have an I.Q. of 60---BECAUSE THEY ARE INCAPABLE OF TAKING THE IQ TEST. Unless of course the flailing of neborn limbs pointing to a multiple choice answer, as it spits up goo counts.

Buy a vowel dude.

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), October 21, 1999.

CygnusXI; What you said was since no one has an I.Q. of 60 at birth you guess I am advocating the extermination of the human race. Now that you elaborate on it I see that you believe that because YOU are incapable of testing a characteristic in someone, the characteristic itself must not exist.

Dude, I do not write to get into trivial urinary olympiads with trival and snippy commentors. Your comments in this forum thus far have been designed to antagonize and at least in this thread basically been a waste of the bits they occupy on the server's drive. Why would I trouble myself with the words of one who wishes to correct my grammer and fails to read the content?

I don't dislike you. I pity the fact that you are either unwilling or unable to contribute more to the discussion. Perhaps you will give it another shot? I know that you can do better than you have thus far because all of my children could have when they were but twelve years old.

You have a nice day son.

I take an A thank you.

-- Michael Erskine (osiris@urbanna.net), October 21, 1999.

My comments in ()

CygnusXI; What you said was since no one has an I.Q. of 60 at birth you guess I am advocating the extermination of the human race(so far, so good). Now that you elaborate on it I see that you believe that because YOU are incapable of testing a characteristic in someone, the characteristic itself must not exist(No, an IQ test is an IQ test. period). Dude, I do not write to get into trivial urinary(do you mean pee?) olympiads with trival and snippy(my puppy is snippy too) commentors. Your comments in this forum thus far have been designed to antagonize (talk of tossing babies in the sea on the other hand is not.) and at least in this thread basically been a waste of the bits they occupy on the server's drive(poor server). Why would I trouble myself with the words of one who wishes to correct my grammer and fails to read the content? (I did read your content. Your content said to kill babies that don't measure up to YOUR expectations.)

I don't dislike you(so). I pity the fact that you are either unwilling or unable to contribute more to the discussion. Perhaps you will give it another shot(here it is)? I know that you can do better than you have thus far because all of my children could have when they were but twelve years old. (I guess they weren't tossed overboard)

You have a nice day son. (spare me)

I take an A thank you.(you left out the last 6 letters)

All in all Mike it's been a blast, but I gotta go. Don't take it personally, we obviously disagree. Untill next time:)

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), October 21, 1999.

We finally get to what was troubling you. It had nothing to do with I.Q. It was the talk of tossing babies into the sea. Yes that was indeed inflamatory. I was wrong to word myself so strongly. I did not expect anyone to take that as a serious proposal. I forgot what A.L. said so long ago, "You can fool some of the people all of the time..." I did not mean to offend and a more carefull choice of words would have been appropriate.

That is how an adult apologizes for speaking stupidly, have you got it yet?

So you have won a point. I capitulate to your superior understanding of the true issues. I thank you for the wisdom and experience you have shown in your rational destruction of my total premise.

I never realized before this moment I was one of those 'hate' mongers who advocated killing babies, my eyes have been opened and I can see the light. I will never be blind again.

Thank you oh brightest star in the firmament.

What the hell were we talking about anyway?

-- Michael Erskine (osiris@urbanna.net), October 21, 1999.

>Flint to be honest with you there are more and more ringers on these groups each day. About a third of them are Feds trying to dig in and discover intelligence information, another third of them are the very racists and facists that the Fed is afraid will be causing problems, finally there is about a third that are just plain nuts.

Mr. Erskine, the problem here is that the FBI is tarring with the same brush all those who believe in the contemporary relevance of biblical prophecy, or who believe (as I do) in the reality of a "New World Order" conspiracy to undermine American Sovereignty, and racist, terrorist groups. They are embedding their political enemies -fundamentalist christians and anti-globalists- in rhetoric denouncing genuine (and very frightening) threats: white supremacists and their ilk. This is mind-control. Perception management. And if the FBI's unrepentant - no, truly arrogant - stance on Waco is any yardstick, I think we can expect many, many deaths of innocent "cult members" (those who believe in prophecy and are vocal about it), especially if a "state of emergency" gives greater power to the alphabet agencies and blacks out the news (as we may expect, having read the relevant Presidential Executive Orders).

You may think I'm a "nut" or the agent of a foreign power, because I criticize the government, or because I've educated myself concerning the planning and effort behind the globalist, plutocractic assault on American sovereignty. I don't much care what you think. But when the FBI turns it's CS gas grenade launcher sights on anyone who doesn't like the NWO, or happens to believe that the U.S. is "Babylon," I think we all ought to take note. Especially if "martial law" (by any other name) takes effect, and the search-and-seizure fundraising techniques our law enforcement community is so enthusiastic about are extended to anyone who talks too much about prophecy or the NWO. We've seen what the FBI can do to "cults" it doesn't like, at Waco. The burea has responded by telling us that "apocalyptic" groups can reasonably be suspected of terrorism. They are dangerous. They are a threat. This is stronger language than they used against the Davidians. Their appropriation of the biblical place-name "Meggido" is clearly inflammatory. They have promoted the agents responsible for the Waco debacle; they have lied and concealed evidence; now this. I'm not a fed, so voicing my concern about all this must make me, by your above standard, the agent of a foreign government, or a "nut." Like I said, I don't much care. But which is it, Mr. Erskine, and do be kind enough to justify your assessment in some rational manner.

You also seem to think that cowering is a survival strategy. It is my opinion that if we all speak our minds freely, those illegitimate powers which would supress our right to free speech can do nothing. I WANT the FBI to know that from my view it is rotting from the inside out in full public view. I WANT them to know that I was once proud of them, and wish I still could be; that it is not too late for them to clean themselves up and be worthy of that pride again. We can cower as if, by holding an opinion, we have committed some crime; or we can voice those opinions, and discuss what we will, freely and fearlessly, like men. We still have the first amendment; we need to use it or lose it. I am willing to die for my right to think and speak and write freely; I can honestly think of no better death. If my words provoked a (manifestly unjust) power to that extremity, that would mean I had said something worth saying.

BTW: I'm in hearty agreement with your scathing assessment of voter apathy and the decline of citizenship. You seem to be saying - "yes, we are facing horrible government abuses now, but it's YOUR fault, you, the voter. So just don't complain about government." I've heard this before, when people try to portray whistleblowers and researchers on governement corruption as "whiners" and "complainers": they say "why don't you stop writing bad things about the governement and just vote." They try to portray people with educated opinions as cranks without a life, uninvolved in their communities, etc.. For now, I ignore the insult and merely ask what factual basis you have for this smear? Could it be you just don't like what you are hearing about criminal activity in government, and you are simply lashing out at the people who are bringing it to your attention? I agree that voter apathy and lack of community involvement is a problem, and it has allowed evil to prosper. But when you leave the door ajar and a bear comes in, the first order of business is not to scold the person who left the door open. The first order of business is to shoot the damned bear.

So to speak.


-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 21, 1999.

Liberty, Micheal, and Cygnus:

Thank you all for a very intriguing discussion. I have nothing to add--you all had incredibly cogent points.

My unsolicited take on this: be good, vote, obey the law, and keep a low profile. Hopefully you will never be forced into a situation where you have to defend the very lives of your friends and family.

I personally can't say that I'd want to live anywhere else but in the States. It's our last and best hope for keeping liberty and freedom in our lives. Our government aint perfect but there is a long long way to go before it even approaches the kind of tyranny known to Russia and Germany and China. Yeah I know, Liberty, "slippery slope..." But let us not forget that all of our persons with a badge or in uniform take an oath that swears to uphold the Constitution. Presumably they have SOME vague idea of what they are defending?? Don't they? Could it be that most would be absolutely loathe to repeat another incident such as Waco, and would likely face severe discipline and prison if they did?

I don't hear the fat lady of the Republic singing, yet. We may be in for some tough times but let's just try to remember that we are all one country and one people and therefore need to act with the responsibility commensurate with our rights.

Under strange times, everybody's just got to keep a cool and rational head and not react emotionally to the troubling stuff around us. No that DOESN'T mean ignore it. That just means it's better to diffuse tension and anger than to put a torch to it. That means the cold, hard facts over melodrama and personal vendettas. That means Spock as opposed to Kirk.

What I am babbling about? Moderation. Yeah that's it. Think very very carefully about whatever you say and do from now on.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), October 21, 1999.


Moderation, yes. Self-censorship, no. I have never incited violence, or threatened violence against any public figure, nor would I want to; I think that is counterproductive, in that it provides statists with an excuse to tighten their grip. But I am outraged by the fact that our leaders, from the top down, are not only corrupt, but seem to be FLAUNTING their corruption. I'm not going to stifle or supress my disgust and grief over the pass they've brought us to. Erskine is right, in that "we get the government we deserve." But he's wrong in thinking we just need to "shut up and vote" (I'm paraphrasing him here). We need to TALK TALK TALK, compare notes, share knowledge, hold INDEPENDENT town meetings, teach, learn, and put that knowledge into ACTION in marches letter writing and fax campaigns, turn up the heat on our elected representatives, get right in the face of bullsh*t media coverage, and raise the level of sophistication of the electorate so they know their history, and they know when they're being lied to. This is the heart and soul of democracy; voting is mere follow-through - necessary but not literally essential.

God damn the man who plots to undermine the Constitution and the freedom of the American people. God damn him to hell and damn him quick, for his sake, before I get to him. This IS "moderation" in my value system. It is simple, minimal, patriotism, necessary for any kind of national integrity. Our difficulty is that International Money Corp. (the parent co. of Evil Bastards, Inc.) has decided that our "nationalism" is an impediment to their utopian scheme of "global governance." They are therefore attempting to destabilize it now, just as they've used the American Republic as an empire, to destabilize and remote-control lesser nations, for decades. Yes, I'm well aware that a lot of police officers and military recognize this, and feel the same way I do, and that is much of what gives me hope.

The solution isn't to cower, or to walk on eggshells. The solution, at this stage, is to point out the copious amount of egg on our would-be central planners' chins, and ridicule them. Call on them to explain themselves. Inform the electorate and demand representation from our representatives. Freely. Like Americans.


-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 22, 1999.

Coprolith... These are the days that require strong speech, BEFORE that window closes... because after that, the single alternative that remains is almost unthinkable.

Liberty... Thank you for demonstrating same.

Michael... I think you value your opinions too highly, (no offense), and that you've laid 15 or 20 coats of shellac on them some time back and called that "good to go." America has not abdicated, she has been deceived; and with many of the weasel words with which you try to describe the situation. Intel, CIA, whatever. If you took an oath to the constitution, it doesn't expire. There is a domestic enemy, and he is not some faceless cypher, as you seem to suggest. The price of freedom is still eternal vigilance.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), October 22, 1999.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ