I drive a 1990 Cutlass. Computer determined dead after several hundred dollars of diagnostic work and new stuff installed. Car does not work without the central computer. I'm wondering if this might be an early y2k embedded systems failure. Then again, I'm also wondering if I'm falling prey to the "Red Truck Syndrome."

Does anyone else know of anyone who drives these crap-mobiles and is having a similar problem?

-c

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), October 20, 1999

Answers

Coprolith,

I had the brain in my car go out last year. It happens. I do not think that this is Y2K. Oh, and my car is a Regal GS. If you are concerned about cost savings, get the "brain" and install it yourself. I did. It isn't that hard to do.

-- (noname@this.time), October 20, 1999.

I've been wondering whether my 1992 Subaru 4wd will work after the year is up. I believe newer cars have some embedded systems but not sure. Anybody seen any articles on this or know anything? Thanks.

-- Debi (LongTimeLurker@shy.com), October 20, 1999.

I had a similar problem with a 1978 Ford (Found On Road Dead) many years ago. And that was likely a simple "computer" compared to those of today.

Any automobile mechanics with association with machinists will make a fortune post-Y2K converting electronic distributors to mechanical, and converting fuel systems to run on other than gasoline.

-- A (A@AisA.com), October 20, 1999.

My 1969 AMC Ambassador is Y2K proof..............

-- Jay Urban (jayho99@aol.com), October 20, 1999.

Jay, I looked over the 1969 Ambassador when it was new. It will make almost any guy Y2K proof and date proof!

MFU

-- Man From Uncle 1999 (mfu1999@hotmail.com), October 20, 1999.

Man from Uncle,

I used to borrow my pop's '71 Ambassador and I didn't have any "date problems."

NWD

-- Not Whistlin' Dixie (not_whistlin_dixie@yahoo.com), October 20, 1999.

Don't knock those old Nashes. They were one of the first, if not the first, to have reclining (all the way for going all the way) front seat. Hubba hubba.

-- A (A@AisA.com), October 20, 1999.

I have a 1972 Volkswagon Bus. Thinking of putting a sign on that says "Y2K Ready" !!

-- simon (simon5@mail.com), October 20, 1999.

* * * 19991020 Wednesday

The banter this thread's generated is welcome relief! LOL!

But, seriously folks ...

I've explained the following on this forum a long time ago. For the benefit of newbies, I'll try it again.

-------------------- Background-

I have experience programming (F.O.R.D.) embedded vehicle control modules/systems and a need-to-know familiarity with On Board Diagnostic (OBD) functionality (1990-1996).

Case History-

To the best of my nitty-gritty knowledge, I recall one confirmed story late last year (1998) about a Toyoyta vehicle acknowledged to have a "date" problem. I presume that's been taken care of with a "recall."

General Characteristics of Vehicle Control Systems-

Vehicle control systems of all types are probably the most robust embedded systems deployed today. Why? ... Safety and da lawyers!

Generally, vehicle modules are designed not to be "show" (operability) stoppers. That is, if the juice (power) source to the is "dead" or cattywompus (that's a "technical" term for goofy), the operability of the vehicle MUST not pose any safety risk.

If "normal" operating parameters/specs are not maintained the functionality of the "failed" system or subsystem should default to a "limp along" mode. Cute name, huh?!?

On Board Diagnostic Systems-

On the other hand, the OBD systems are a different animal. On board the vehicle, they are monitor and recording (at predetermined intervals) slaves that may send(feedback) recorded data (status) to another vehicle subsystem for performance purposes.

Here again, the interchange integrity and functionality of the affected vehicle control system(s) should not jeopardize/compromise safety and should permit "limp along" functionality.

The Computers used for diagnosing the vehicle OBD data and functionality specifications of subsystems are likely to harbor date- related Y2K problems.

If a subsystem generates data to be recorded for posterity, it is possible that some chip, some where, may maintain a clock for recording date/time stamp information and/or elapsed timing functions. Recorded data and/or date/time information--stored in special "Keep Alive Memory" (KAM) locations--could be used by external diagnostic computer equipment for, well, diagnosing purposes.

General Info About Vehicle Control System Programmers-

I've seen some pretty "dumb" stuff coded into these itty-bitty (1Kb- 32Kb, these days) systems by some hair brain M.E.'s and E.E.'s. I wouldn't put almost anything past those avocational programming geeks.

Conclusion-

My educated guess is that "limp along" mode will conceal any true Y2K problems from the average driver and passengers. If some problems are found, they'll probably wind up in the "Quiet Recall" queue for FAF (Fix-After-Failure) and JQP none the wiser.

I hope I've succeeded in making this as conceptually simple as possible for GP consumption.

Disclaimer-

This is not to be construed as any warranty against anything at all!!

Check with the respective manufacturer of your vehicle for detailed information. --------------------

Hope this is helpful.

Regards, Bob Mangus

* * *

-- Robert Mangus (rmangus1@yahoo.com), October 21, 1999.