Some bandwidth has been recently devoted to a fear (on the part of doomers) of gloating by pollies when nothing happens 000101. I believe this fear to be justified, as the doomers have (in my never humble opinion) earned a veritable heap of "I told you so"'s when the non-events (fail to) occur.

And why not?

Doomers have piled the scorn high onto anyone that suggested anything approaching normalcy next year. All evidence (real or imagined) has been interpreted in the light of whether it supported the accepted and catastrophic meme. Embarassment is society's normal corrective for such idiocy, and I fully expect it to recompense the folly to date.

I believe the doomers realise this as well, and this explains their back-peddling on issues such as the JoAnne (non-) Effect, and expected power outages. They are now attempting to set the stage to blame any non-positive news post-000101 on "the Y2K bug." It's pathetic, in it's own amusing way; as they join the rank and file of cybernoids - justifying their beliefs by a lack of evidence.

I have done my part to add to the coming ridicule. I did it in the hopes it would curb such appetites for fear-mongering in the future. I believe the coming ostracision of doomers will stand as a sort of social monument to all who would race to join Chicken Little's quest in the future; and thus serve as an "anti-meme."

I request that the pollies put a little thought into the manner in which they offer sarcasm and scorn of the doomers - some fore-thought now on how the public will receive such ridicule of the lesser informed. I have long held that tact works best. Well written, well thought out, and stinging sarcasm is appreciated by most readers; so I suggest that most engage in this form, as opposed to the "BWAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA" type. The latter, while appropriate - having been earned and well-deserved - is less tactful. Suggestions on themes and bases for derision of doomers are appreciated; some may be put into practise.

Though it is acceptable here for doomers to engage in such fantasies that make serial-killers famous, I would ask that pollies refrain from such abhorant musings. No one should engage in the composition of stories, therefore, which depict the cooking and eating of debate opponents, as this goes beyond the pale of normal civilised folk, and would be decried in any forum - except this one, of course (because, after all, it supports the meme).

Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), October 20, 1999

Answers

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

This is a special case of my question immediately prior: Why Pollyticians Should be Held Accountable but Warners Need Not Be The conversation is beginning there.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), October 20, 1999.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a 'meme'??? I figure it's some sort of geekie speekie??

MFU

-- Man From Uncle 1999 (mfu1999@hotmail.com), October 20, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

MFU: The word is roughly equivalent to "idea." See The Millennium Contagion: Is Your Mental Software Year 2000 Compliant? by Aaron Lynch, in which he talks about ideas propagating like genes, via survival of the fittest. One can be wrong about something like Y2K thousands of times, but it only takes being right once for all the unbelievers brain types to fail to flourish.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), October 20, 1999.

As far as I remember it is called the Y2K or Y2000 problem for a reason. Last time I checked, we weren't in the year 2000, quite yet.

Night train

(sysman, eat yo heart out, beat ya)

-- jes an ol counter who played football (nighttr@in.lane), October 20, 1999.

The pollys will be the only ones who will be able to gloat, and frankly, I hope they have that opportunity. Looks like they've already begun. If the doomers are right, nobody will be gloating.

What Night Train said...

-- (dot@dot.dot), October 20, 1999.

Could you please pass me the "Andy Ray Pot Pie"?

More seriously: (1) cut the blue crap, and (2) there's no question that, by some mechanism, massive I-told-you-so's will be in order.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), October 20, 1999.

Doc Paulie's explanation of memes, copied from the archives. This is what Andy Ray and most, if not all, of the polly trolls buy into.

http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb237006&MyNum=9 239895 32&P=Yes&TL=923846196

Debunking Y2k webboard

Re: Re: Go back to Y2kchaos Tuesday, 13-Apr-1999 03:45:32

208.211.54.153 writes:

. . . What you might want to consider is the fact your post "looks" like just so many we have seen over the many hours on these Y2k webboards. Some of us have come to believe in a very real concept called Memes, Memetics. The link at the top of this forum called the Millennium Contagion deals with a meme swirling around Y2k specifically.

What I think I am trying to tell you in a polite way is you are operating from a position not of your own doing. The meme(mind-virus)is operating for you. You will deny this but you are, OK? Many here could write your views on this issue off the top of our heads we have seen it(the meme) so often. There is just too much similarity in view by most that it is impossible it could be anything but a foreign entity at work, it is.

See simple

Doc Paulie

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 20, 1999.

AR, that would be "tack", not "tact".

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your pubic region.

-- memette lisa (lisa@work.now), October 20, 1999.

Tact-The ability to tell someone to go to hell,while simultaneously making them happy to be on their way.

-- Sam (Gunmkr52@aol.com), October 20, 1999.

Andy Ray,

Before you attempt to give hypnotic suggestion, you first by

necessity, must hypnotize the patient.

Reference, Joseph Goebbels Memoirs, page 6.

In other words, you need more practice back over at DeeBunkIE.

***

BTW, Does the back of your head still hurt?

You're supposed to hold the lid up with your paw when you get a drink.

***

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 20, 1999.

dont worry AR no self respecting doomer would eat you. not after the ants get through with you. have a swell day.

-- the ants go marching (four@by.four.hurrah.hurrah), October 20, 1999.

Debunkie needs you more than we do, AR. Not counting the 9 posts from cpr mostly talking to himself, there are only 8 posts so far today.

I would have helped you with your spelling and grammar mistakes but there are far too many. However: "ostracision"??? Try "ostracism." Pity they did away with that college prep/trade school system over there; you could have gone into something not requiring writing. Hairdressing, for instance.

BTW, "beyond the pale" is insulting to your Irish brothers and sisters.

-- What makes you think we (value@your.opinion?), October 20, 1999.

So pompous! What a writing style. Verbose and pretentious. Andy Ray, you need a writing lesson. Here's one to START with:

"After you write, re-read your work. Whenever you come across a sentence that you think is particularly fine, strike it out."

-- Ct Vronsky (vronsky@anna.lit), October 20, 1999.

Here's ton of stuff related to "meme" (any contagiously popular idea or cultural construct):

http://www .santafe.edu/~shalizi/notebooks/memes.html

-- Count Vronsky (vronsky@anna.lit), October 20, 1999.

Some information on memes, memetics:

http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/meme.htm Meme Central

http://faculty.washington.edu/wcalvin/bk9/index.htm The Cerebral Code, by W. H. Calvin

http://www.whatis.com/meme.htm Definition of meme

The type of man dominant today is a primitive one... he does not see the civilization of the world around him, but he uses it as if it were a natural force. The new man wants his motor-car, and enjoys it, but he believes that it is the spontaneous fruit of an Edenic tree. In the depths of his soul he is unaware of the artificial, almost incredible, character of civilization, and does not extend his enthusiasm for the instruments to the principles which make them possible. La Rebelion de las Masas, 1930, by Jose Ortega Y Gasset

Be assured that when the anti-intellectual sounding folks at Debunk use the word "meme" it is as an epithet similar to saying: "Ptooie! Those quantum physics idiots, next they'll be saying that light is both a particle and a wave," or, "Galileo Galilei, what a kook!"

"Infinities and indivisibles transcend our finite understanding, the former on account of their magnitude, the latter because of their smallness; Imagine what they are when combined." Galileo Galilei, (Two New Sciences 1638)

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), October 20, 1999.

AR !!

What does bloating have to do with it

-- a remedeeal reeder (i.tri@butt.cant.reed), October 20, 1999.

Thanks, Count. That's quite a list at the link. Here's one from the list:

http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit/ Journal of Memetics

It is also important to note that the use of the word "meme" when attached to a person or people, as is common in fallacious argument is inaccurate, again, connotes 'kook', 'nut', etc.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), October 20, 1999.

Andy Ray, Your ego causes you to suffer,y2k is not about being on the side that is "right".It's about people,a small minority that fear the worst and are prepairing and a large majority who accept the establishment asurances and will wait and see.You have very little effect on anybody except for your own ego-stroking.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 20, 1999.

Andy Ray, you pathetic piss-ant, how many times have "doomers" stated over and over and over again that the LEAST of their concerns about Y2K is that pollies are going to say, "See, we told ya!". How many times has everyone said that their BIGGEST MOST HEARTFELT HOPE is that Y2K will turn out to be a non-event or bump in the road???

By the way, Porky in Cellblock D is STILL having wet memes about you. You really should pay him another conjugal visit soon.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), October 20, 1999.

Ideally, any gloating will be creative, amusing, and well documented. Simply saying I told you so gets old real fast.

Recently, someone on csy2k calculated that anyone who bought every time Paul Milne said to sell, would have tripled their money by now. That's a good gloat.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), October 20, 1999.

I, THE EVER IMNIPOTENT PREDICTORAMUS DO HEARBY PREDICT THAT THERE WILL BE SEVERAL Y2K RELATED DEATHS FROM 'OVER CROW-INGESTION'.

THE ONLY WAY THIS PREDICTION MAY BE AVOIDED IS FOR TIMEBOMB2000 TO BECOME PASSWORD PROTECTED.

THIS WILL ALSO SAVE FACE FOR THOSE MEAR MORTALS WHO LACK PREDICTORAMUS' AWESOME ABILITY TO FORETELL THE FUTURE.

STAY TUNED FOR MY NEXT UNFLAGING PREDICTION.

-- PREDICTORAMUS (NOSTRADAMUSWASACHILDCOMP@RED2.ME), October 20, 1999.

THE STOCK MARKET WILL CONTINUE TO RISE THIS WEEK.

-- PREDICTORAMUS (NOSTRADAMUSWASACHILDCOMP@RED2.ME), October 20, 1999.

Does anyone here ever remember seeing Andy Ray discuss the Y2K problem? His posts are always some distraction like this, or does doomer=this or that?

Typical polly. Ignore the problem and it will go away.

Tick... Tock... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 20, 1999.

Maybe I'll start a "Mock the Moronic Y2K predictions" (or "predictors") forum here on greenspun.

Should be fun [VERY BG]!

-- Moron Thumper (thumping@moronic.melon-heads), October 20, 1999.

Damn, that ignoramus predictoramus is back. Dude, is your caps key broken or what? You have about as much tact as ol' Andy Ray himself. The only other reason I can think of for the all caps is maybe you are hard of hearing... : )

growlin' at fools...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), October 20, 1999.

Andy, What ^they^ said.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), October 20, 1999.

When I see an "Andy Ray" thread, I know I'm in for some good yuks. And, "Moron Thumper", the first word of your name describes you to a "T". Go for it, start your own forum. Get lost.

-- Ohio Bob (ohiobob@buckeyestate.com), October 20, 1999.

Andy Ray does know how to stir the honey- - - - -Mmm,Mmm

-- BerRabbit (Bees@the hive.com), October 20, 1999.

I, THE AWESOME AND ALL KNOWING PREDICTORAMUS AM PROVEN CORRECT YET AGAIN.

STAY TUNED FOR MY NEXT UNFAILING PREDICTION.

-- PREDICTORAMUS (NOSTRADAMUS WAS A CHILD COMP@RED.2ME), October 23, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

I wrote an essay tonight on Being Wrong which has some relevance to your request, above.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), October 28, 1999.